Hourglass - TAS for PC games

Blazier

Edit history:

Blazier: 2011-08-31 01:07:12 am

Blazier: 2011-08-31 01:03:06 am

Blazier: 2011-08-31 01:02:04 am

Blazier: 2011-08-31 01:01:42 am

Blazier: 2011-08-29 09:11:08 pm

2011-08-28 08:50:29 pm

Hourglass (http://code.google.com/p/hourglass-win32/) is a pretty new (June 2011) speedrun tool for PC games. It implements most of the functionality of an emulator: savestates, slow down, fast forward and movie recording and playback. But it's not an emulator, it plays the games natively, so it could theoretically work with any PC game. That said, it doesn't work with every PC game. In fact, it's very limited in the games it supports, and it doesn't support mouse recording. Also note that some things are buggy in Vista/Windows 7, so XP is optimal. There's also a list of games that have been tested to be compatible here: http://code.google.com/p/hourglass-win32/wiki/CompatibilityList

I've tried it with La-Mulana, IWBTG and Nikujin and it works great.

Even though it clearly wouldn't be allowed by SDA, I still deem it a useful useful tool for SDA route planning. It's useful for finding glitches: "what happens if I press buttons A and B on the frame that X happens". I've also found it useful in finding optimal ways of executing something, where the other options would be to record or stopwatch you performing the paths in realtime.

If everyone already knows about this (or other programs that do pretty much the same thing), then I'm sorry. Just wanted to make sure people are aware that stuff like this exists...

If you try a game that Hourglass should probably have support for, but it doesn't work for whatever reason, the TASVideos thread http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8750 is a good place to report it. The people working on it there are always looking for more games to use as test cases, and game-specific code or advice is often needed.

Thread title:

Hourglass ([url]http://code.google.com/p/hourglass-win32/[/url]) is a pretty new (June 2011) speedrun tool for PC games. It implements most of the functionality of an emulator: savestates, slow down, fast forward and movie recording and playback. But it's not an emulator, it plays the games natively, so it could theoretically work with any PC game. That said, it doesn't work with every PC game. In fact, it's very limited in the games it supports, and it doesn't support mouse recording. Also note that some things are buggy in Vista/Windows 7, so XP is optimal. There's also a list of games that have been tested to be compatible here: http://code.google.com/p/hourglass-win32/wiki/CompatibilityList

I've tried it with La-Mulana, IWBTG and Nikujin and it works great.

Even though it clearly wouldn't be allowed by SDA, I still deem it a useful useful tool for SDA route planning. It's useful for finding glitches: "what happens if I press buttons A and B on the frame that X happens". I've also found it useful in finding optimal ways of executing something, where the other options would be to record or stopwatch you performing the paths in realtime.

If everyone already knows about this (or other programs that do pretty much the same thing), then I'm sorry. Just wanted to make sure people are aware that stuff like this exists...

If you try a game that Hourglass should probably have support for, but it doesn't work for whatever reason, the TASVideos thread http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8750 is a good place to report it. The people working on it there are always looking for more games to use as test cases, and game-specific code or advice is often needed.

ExplodingCabbage

2011-08-29 04:45:51 am

Though I'm not entirely clear on how it works or what its capabilities are, this sounds awesome, and I will try it out sometime. Thanks for sharing.

Mystery

2011-08-29 08:18:26 am

There is actually a huge topic about this on TASVideos, for those interested.

Blazier

Edit history:

Blazier: 2011-08-29 09:11:26 pm

2011-08-29 09:10:35 pm

Yeah, the first few posts there (http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8750) describe as much as you need to know of how it works and its limitations.

I have no name

2011-08-30 11:50:23 pm

Obscure games ftw

This looks cool. I think I'll try TASing GFW extra with it. It'll be much easier than using Cheat Engine to lower the speed to .1 or something

ZenicReverie

2011-08-31 12:53:34 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

PC verifiers need to be aware of this as a possible form of cheating. Not sure how one would detect it though aside from suggesting actions resulting from inhuman reflexes.

Blazier

Edit history:

Blazier: 2011-08-31 02:43:30 am

Blazier: 2011-08-31 02:41:52 am

Blazier: 2011-08-31 02:41:39 am

Blazier: 2011-08-31 02:41:11 am

Blazier: 2011-08-31 02:40:49 am

2011-08-31 02:40:21 am

I used it to do a speedrun of the Nikujin Training level, if anyone's interested:

There's links in the description there to download the recording file to play with Hourglass. I recommend it ;p.

Also, there's an incredible run of IWBTG by Kurikinton at http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php with the recording file there too.

They're both MMF2 games, but if they both work for you then there's a good chance most MMF2 games will. You might have to disable Multithreading, so you wont have audio, but I don't know how much of that has been fixed.

Overall I'm very surprised at how robust Hourglass is... I mean... I'm amazed it works at all.

Patrick

2011-09-06 03:17:58 pm

If the run has to be broadcasted live and the archived copy is verified, there is no way to cheat, right?
Is there the possibility to broadcast live and let only specific or no users watch?

ZenicReverie

2011-09-06 06:44:38 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

You'd be able to see if someone is using frame advance, and save states would be really obvious. Slow down might not be as noticeable.

On justin.tv (twitch.tv) you can set your channel to be password protected, and you can archive videos forever or they'll be around for 7 days (there's also the option to upload to youtube).

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-09-07 03:36:12 am

2011-09-07 03:28:52 am

Quote from freakypaddy:

If the run has to be broadcasted live and the archived copy is verified, there is no way to cheat, right?
Is there the possibility to broadcast live and let only specific or no users watch?

Bad idea. Still easy to cheat (just play your cheated video fullscreen in VLC and stream it), and streaming software causes significant system slowdown.

Really I don't think there's any way we can defend against the possibility of somebody using a couple of savestates to segment a hard run. Just gotta trust that nobody is that lame.

Also, can I just make the point that publicly pointing out any ways of catching people who try to sneak TASes through SDA verification is a bad idea. If you have such ideas, save them until such time as a run is suspected of having been cheated.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-09-07 10:07:14 am

2011-09-07 10:04:03 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

I remember this, I was trying to use it to try some tricks in La-Mulana only to find that this program hates my computer. However it's pretty cool from what I've seen it can do. I noticed that the game seems to run a bit slower than normal in real time playback so there is a problem. As for detecting cheats, um if the run looks too good then you could ask for them too do it live, isn't that the easiest way?

Chrno

2011-09-07 10:25:02 am

WOW.

"Even though it clearly wouldn't be allowed by SDA, I still deem it a useful useful tool for SDA route planning."

My god yes it will!

ExtremeYoshiFan

Edit history:

ExtremeYoshiFan: 2011-09-11 12:23:24 pm

ExtremeYoshiFan: 2011-09-11 12:23:14 pm

2011-09-11 11:59:12 am

I am feeling pretty bored, so I'm going to TAS VVVVVV for the heck of it. The result could turn out to be pretty interesting, but first I have to tear it apart and find a few glitches. It may help Tranquilite in the future as well.

Well, that was worthless, it didn't work. You go to load a savestate and ERROR. I tried all sorts of things to fix it to no avail.

ShadowWraith

2011-09-11 02:38:53 pm

.

Hourglass savestates only work if you load them from the same screen as you made them, iirc. You should read the TASVideos development topic about it. (and post if you want them to help fix the bug)

Blazier

Edit history:

Blazier: 2011-09-13 04:09:24 am

Blazier: 2011-09-13 04:09:17 am

Blazier: 2011-09-13 12:30:45 am

2011-09-13 12:30:11 am

To load a savestate in a game where they're glitchy you're better off ending the recording and then playing back the movie (use fastforward) to the frame you want to go back to. It would obviously be more tedious than just loading a savestate. but it still works. Edit: also make sure to check out the VVVVVV thread on TASVideos. They'll be able to help you to get savestates at least working.

ExtremeYoshiFan

2011-09-13 02:02:47 pm

Quote from Blazier:

To load a savestate in a game where they're glitchy you're better off ending the recording and then playing back the movie (use fastforward) to the frame you want to go back to. It would obviously be more tedious than just loading a savestate. but it still works. Edit: also make sure to check out the VVVVVV thread on TASVideos. They'll be able to help you to get savestates at least working.

It's not a big deal, I just wanted to see what I could do. I'll just wait and see what they end up with.

TPP

2013-01-27 12:09:55 pm

Doesn't work with Super Hexagon. Darn.

lecorbak

Edit history:

lecorbak: 2014-05-24 05:12:56 am

lecorbak: 2014-05-24 05:11:17 am

2014-05-24 05:09:56 am

Vanilla H is mai waifu

are there any tools for TASing a game which only use a mouse ?
I'd like to TAS Patchcon defend the library :

I think I could do the 100K mode in less than 1 minut on Lunatic.

HiipFire

2014-05-24 05:57:05 am

No

Warepire

2014-05-24 07:25:38 am

Heavy Metal Powered

Quote from lecorbak:

are there any tools for TASing a game which only use a mouse ?
I'd like to TAS Patchcon defend the library :

I think I could do the 100K mode in less than 1 minut on Lunatic.

Since the original Hourglass developer has disappeared, I and a few others from TASvideos have continued development here: http://code.google.com/p/hourglass-resurrection/
One of the projects is to add mouse support, but it is much more complex than it appears from the outside.

presjpolk

2014-05-24 09:28:21 am

HELLO!

oh man, in theory a person *could* have a tablet and click anywhere on screen at any time Smiley

lecorbak

Edit history:

lecorbak: 2014-05-24 10:10:40 am

lecorbak: 2014-05-24 09:58:50 am

lecorbak: 2014-05-24 09:58:16 am

2014-05-24 09:54:10 am

Vanilla H is mai waifu

Quote:

One of the projects is to add mouse support, but it is much more complex than it appears from the outside.

yeah, I know it's complicated.

actually, I tried hourglass, and the touhou games marked as "working" are not working on my PC (windows 7).
the games are freezing just before the title screen.
the only games who worked were : megamari, M.U.G.E.N. and Patchcon Defend the Library, but like I said, Patchcon can only be played with a mouse which is a shame. :V

Warepire

Edit history:

Warepire: 2014-05-24 03:47:02 pm

2014-05-24 03:46:36 pm

Heavy Metal Powered

Quote from lecorbak:

actually, I tried hourglass, and the touhou games marked as "working" are not working on my PC (windows 7).
the games are freezing just before the title screen.
the only games who worked were : megamari, M.U.G.E.N. and Patchcon Defend the Library, but like I said, Patchcon can only be played with a mouse which is a shame. :V

Games that work on XP not working on Vista/7 is a known issue, without a known solution unfortunately. If you have the time and know-how to debug the problem, please do. We take all the help we can get, as neither of us has the time we wish we had to spend on the project.

bjw

2014-05-24 06:41:48 pm

Quote from Warepire:

Since the original Hourglass developer has disappeared, I and a few others from TASvideos have continued development here: http://code.google.com/p/hourglass-resurrection/
One of the projects is to add mouse support, but it is much more complex than it appears from the outside.

Holy crap I didn't know about this, awesome! I would absolutely love to see support for 64-bit Vista and Windows 7.

Warepire

2014-05-25 11:27:21 am

Heavy Metal Powered

Quote from bjw:

Quote from Warepire:

Since the original Hourglass developer has disappeared, I and a few others from TASvideos have continued development here: http://code.google.com/p/hourglass-resurrection/
One of the projects is to add mouse support, but it is much more complex than it appears from the outside.

Holy crap I didn't know about this, awesome! I would absolutely love to see support for 64-bit Vista and Windows 7.

32-bit works fine on 64-bit architectures. To support 64-bit-only games etc, there needs to a be a completely new implementation. So many stuff in the current code is 32-bit specific, and needs to be to work with 32-bit games.