Hidden and Dangerous I (Deluxe) speedrun

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-25 08:33:48 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-25 08:33:01 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-25 08:32:27 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-25 08:29:56 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-25 08:29:44 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-25 08:25:33 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-25 08:21:14 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-25 08:20:49 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-22 02:54:15 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-22 02:52:25 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-22 02:50:18 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-22 02:48:42 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-21 05:57:57 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-21 05:57:11 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-15 04:18:08 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-15 10:42:43 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-15 10:41:36 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-15 10:35:42 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-15 10:35:02 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-12-15 10:31:53 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-11-21 08:54:59 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-11-09 06:15:01 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-11-02 06:14:38 pm

Thinkshooter: 2010-12-18 06:01:13 pm

Thinkshooter: 2010-12-18 01:01:36 pm

2010-12-18 11:01:36 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Hi all,

Welcome to my new Hidden & Dangerous 1 (Deluxe) segmented speedrun in 86 minutes.

The video was recorded in Stereo 3D.

Links
Game page
Download this previously commercial game for free: http://www.google.com/search?q=hddeluxe.exe

Available video versions
Stereo 3D (torrent only):
- 1280 x 720 side-by-side stereoscopic 3D torrent - best for stereo glasses; should also work for 3D displays
- 1920 x 1080 above/below S3D torrent - best for 3D-enabled displays
If you have problems with playback in 3D, post your config and I'll try to help.

2D (standard download and torrent) on the download page
- Low, normal: 384 x 240
- High: 768 x 480
- Insane: 1232 x 768
- Extreme: 1728 x 1080

Youtube versions
Hidden & Dangerous speedrun in Stereo 3D
Please select 2x the intended quality to compensate for the double video, whether you're playing back 2D or 3D. Minimum 720p recommended.

Hidden & Dangerous speedrun, 2D annotated version
Instead of a textual description or a commentary track, I've added Youtube annotations to the 2D version of the video to explain many of the tricks.
If you don't have a 3D display, this version will provide better quality for your download.

Comparison to my H&D 2 run
- Having a team actually helps in many missions.
- I used the following A-team for specialized roles: Mountbatten and McGatt (good reactions & autonomous execution), Aldridge (can take lots of hits), Smedley (sniper). In order to cut team selection time, I luck-manipulated the rest of the team in for less important roles.
- There are no disguises, so I can no longer just walk past enemies.
- I now use map commands to send soldiers to places in order to maximize parallelism.
- There are no medkits in H&D1, so there's no way to patch up soldiers in-mission.
- Soldiers can run but not sprint.
- These early SAS troops can't reload their gun while running Sad

They have to stop for that.

Constructive feedback is very welcome.

ExplodingCabbage helped me a lot during the final rerun. Two pairs of eyes is definitely better than one. Thanks EC!

Thread title:

Hi all,

Welcome to my new Hidden & Dangerous 1 (Deluxe) segmented speedrun in 86 minutes.

The video was recorded in Stereo 3D.

[b]Links[/b]
[url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/HiddenAndDangerousDeluxe.html]Game page[/url]
Download this previously commercial game for free: [url=http://www.google.com/search?q=hddeluxe.exe]http://www.google.com/search?q=hddeluxe.exe[/url]

[b]Available video versions[/b]
[i]Stereo 3D (torrent only):[/i]
- [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/torrent/HiddenAndDangerousDeluxe_Normal_12512_stereo3D_sideBySide_mp4.torrent]1280 x 720 side-by-side stereoscopic 3D torrent[/url] - best for stereo glasses; should also work for 3D displays
- [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/torrent/HiddenAndDangerousDeluxe_Normal_12512_stereo3D_aboveBelow_mp4.torrent]1920 x 1080 above/below S3D torrent[/url] - best for 3D-enabled displays
If you have problems with playback in 3D, post your config and I'll try to help.

[i]2D (standard download and torrent) on the [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?HiddenAndDangerousDeluxe_Normal_12512]download page[/url][/i]
- Low, normal: 384 x 240
- High: 768 x 480
- Insane: 1232 x 768
- Extreme: 1728 x 1080

[b]Youtube versions[/b]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Bd4ZWgVuQ]Hidden & Dangerous speedrun in Stereo 3D[/url]
Please select 2x the intended quality to compensate for the double video, whether you're playing back 2D or 3D. Minimum 720p recommended.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXCtiULbxlU]Hidden & Dangerous speedrun, 2D annotated version[/url]
Instead of a textual description or a commentary track, I've added Youtube annotations to the 2D version of the video to explain many of the tricks.
If you don't have a 3D display, this version will provide better quality for your download.

[b]Comparison to my [url=http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/hidden__dangerous_2_hard_mode_lone_wolf_speedrun_in_79_minutes.html]H&D 2 run[/url][/b]
- Having a team actually helps in many missions.
- I used the following A-team for specialized roles: Mountbatten and McGatt (good reactions & autonomous execution), Aldridge (can take lots of hits), Smedley (sniper). In order to cut team selection time, I luck-manipulated the rest of the team in for less important roles.
- There are no disguises, so I can no longer just walk past enemies.
- I now use map commands to send soldiers to places in order to maximize parallelism.
- There are no medkits in H&D1, so there's no way to patch up soldiers in-mission.
- Soldiers can run but not sprint.
- These early SAS troops can't reload their gun while running :( They have to stop for that.

Constructive feedback is very welcome.

ExplodingCabbage helped me a lot during the final rerun. Two pairs of eyes is definitely better than one. Thanks EC!

Ewil

2010-12-18 12:03:50 pm

I'd definitely watch that and maybe even verify, although I beated deluxe like a year ago, but I really wonder how are you gonna speedrun it as enemy AI cheats all the time and teammembers just suck Smiley

13013

(user is banned)

2010-12-18 07:21:33 pm

Yes Mario Riding A Pole

I'm up to watching and verifying this when you complete it. This is one of my fav games too Smiley

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2011-07-19 07:17:01 pm

Thinkshooter: 2011-07-19 07:16:20 pm

Thinkshooter: 2011-07-19 07:16:00 pm

2011-07-19 06:45:21 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Happy to inform you that this H&D Deluxe speedrun is now well in progress.

To give you a taste, I've published the first campaign (missions 1-4) here on my Youtube channel.

mytot

2011-07-20 03:13:06 am

evil does it

One of my all time fav games. Remember playing it over and over again when it was released, haven't played it since tho.
I can't believe that I actually thought this game had nice looking graphix. I quess the years fly by, huh? Smiley

Great looking run tho, looking forward to the rest.

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2011-08-12 12:44:45 pm

Thinkshooter: 2011-08-12 12:44:00 pm

2011-08-09 05:26:44 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Ladies and Gents,
<Drumroll>
Hidden and Dangerous 1 Deluxe (Original + the add-on) for PC is up for verification!
Please let Flip know if you can verify it by sending him a message at one of the addresses listed on http://speeddemosarchive.com/lang/submit_en.html .

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-08-13 05:16:20 pm

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-08-13 05:10:59 pm

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-08-13 05:10:57 pm

2011-08-13 05:03:18 pm

Wow, I hadn't played this game since I was about 8 and I don't think I appreciated back then just how terrible it is. The friendly AI and commands are just so... broken, in so many ways.

Anyway, I'm starting to play through now looking for tricks and improvements. So far the only trick I've found is that you can jump on top of teammates and then jump off their heads, which could potentially be used to reach otherwise innaccessible heights. I haven't found an actual use for it yet, though. Maybe you can think of one.

As for improvements, I'm gonna play through the first campaign and post improvement ideas as I come up with them.

Mission 1: Couldn't find any improvements

Mission 2:
a) No need to run all the way into the middle of the first set of tanks to place the C4. Anywhere on the white concrete tile surface around the base will do. You could've planted at 1:59 and still blown the tanks; I'd guess this costs 2 seconds.
b) When you're entering the building, running around to the left to shoot the two guys there is inefficient. Instead, run straight ahead, shooting the guy on the catwalk above. Then, when you reach the stairs, turn and shoot the explosive barrels back by the door. You'll kill the two guys on the ground floor with the explosion. This costs you about 6 seconds.

Mission 3 (currently looking at):
a) I need to double-check this, but if you delayed blowing up the tanker until after interrogating the guy in the building, couldn't you reduce the number of weapon changes you have to make by two, and save about a second? At the moment you change to the bazooka, then back to the Sten, then back to the bazooka. If you didn't select the bazooka until coming out of the building, you would only need that single weapon change all mission.
b) You can use a teammate to boost you over the fence at the beginning, though I don't know if this is in any way useful. Edit: It isn't.

Wow, I hadn't played this game since I was about 8 and I don't think I appreciated back then just how terrible it is. The friendly AI and commands are just so... broken, in so many ways.

Anyway, I'm starting to play through now looking for tricks and improvements. So far the only trick I've found is that you can jump on top of teammates and then jump off their heads, which could potentially be used to reach otherwise innaccessible heights. I haven't found an actual use for it yet, though. Maybe you can think of one.

As for improvements, I'm gonna play through the first campaign and post improvement ideas as I come up with them.

Mission 1: Couldn't find any improvements

Mission 2:
a) No need to run all the way into the middle of the first set of tanks to place the C4. Anywhere on the white concrete tile surface around the base will do. You could've planted at 1:59 and still blown the tanks; I'd guess this costs 2 seconds.
b) When you're entering the building, running around to the left to shoot the two guys there is inefficient. Instead, run straight ahead, shooting the guy on the catwalk above. Then, when you reach the stairs, turn and shoot the explosive barrels back by the door. You'll kill the two guys on the ground floor with the explosion. This costs you about 6 seconds.

Mission 3 (currently looking at):
a) I need to double-check this, but if you delayed blowing up the tanker until after interrogating the guy in the building, couldn't you reduce the number of weapon changes you have to make by two, and save about a second? At the moment you change to the bazooka, then back to the Sten, then back to the bazooka. If you didn't select the bazooka until coming out of the building, you would only need that single weapon change all mission.
b) You can use a teammate to boost you over the fence at the beginning, though I don't know if this is in any way useful. Edit: It isn't.

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2011-08-14 03:49:58 am

2011-08-13 05:54:30 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Thanks for the input EC. I'm glad someone found it worth installing this old gem.

H&D was better in its time than now, but even so to me it's way ahead of many current games. Background story matters a lot in my opinion, so a game with a credible story line (WWII) appeals to me more than some of the quick-and-dirty sci-fi tales. I've always loved the colors, the sounds and the music in both H&Ds. Their heart was in it when they made those games.

Anyway I'm done with the run. I went back to fix any major improvements I found, including some like you mentioned. (I didn't rerun a mission just for a tiny improvement: I got very lucky in many segments, and there's no guarantee for those in a rerun.) Maybe you can further improve on it, I'd love to see someone else take a stab at this game!

Yes, teammates can be used as ladders which I used a couple of times to get around obstacles.

> if you delayed blowing up the tanker until after interrogating the guy in the building, couldn't you reduce the number of weapon changes

In Mission 3 the tanker *must* be blown up from afar. There are 4 or so enemy guards next to it. If the tanker explosion doesn't kill them, they would surely get me. I checked and killing them all with the Sten took more time, even with the fewer weapon changes.

Thanks for the input EC. I'm glad someone found it worth installing this old gem.

H&D was better in its time than now, but even so to me it's way ahead of many current games. Background story matters a lot in my opinion, so a game with a credible story line (WWII) appeals to me more than some of the quick-and-dirty sci-fi tales. I've always loved the colors, the sounds and the music in both H&Ds. Their heart was in it when they made those games.

Anyway I'm done with the run. I went back to fix any major improvements I found, including some like you mentioned. (I didn't rerun a mission just for a tiny improvement: I got very lucky in many segments, and there's no guarantee for those in a rerun.) Maybe you can further improve on it, I'd love to see someone else take a stab at this game!

Yes, teammates can be used as ladders which I used a couple of times to get around obstacles.

[i]> if you delayed blowing up the tanker until after interrogating the guy in the building, couldn't you reduce the number of weapon changes[/i]

In Mission 3 the tanker *must* be blown up from afar. There are 4 or so enemy guards next to it. If the tanker explosion doesn't kill them, they would surely get me. I checked and killing them all with the Sten took more time, even with the fewer weapon changes.

ExplodingCabbage

2011-08-14 04:08:31 am

Alrighty, you're right about the tanker. I don't think I see any improvements to mission 3.

Question: are you counting the pre-mission menus in timing? If so, there's clearly some time to be saved autoselecting troop and equipment choices pre-missions.

ExplodingCabbage

2011-08-14 04:52:47 am

Mission 4: Surely you could've saved 25 seconds or so by, instead of having a guy who shoots all the armoured carriages from the hill, then runs all the way down the hill to submachine guys in the town, having a fourth guy, with a sten gun, and giving him a move order on the map to get him in position to fight the guys in the town while you're taking car of the carriages? I've had trouble recreating even your method, but all the same it feels like this mission can be done a lot faster?

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2012-05-21 11:18:46 am

Thinkshooter: 2011-08-14 03:09:04 pm

Thinkshooter: 2011-08-14 02:50:00 pm

Thinkshooter: 2011-08-14 01:19:38 pm

Thinkshooter: 2011-08-14 12:51:01 pm

2011-08-14 12:44:41 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

> having a fourth guy, with a sten gun, and giving him a move order on the map to get him in position

Sounds good in theory. Here are a few issues that must be factored in. As you pointed out the AI isn't very smart:
- move orders aren't carried out in a straight line, they zigzag and briefly stop at times. I went the straight route (2+ sec)
- management of the 4th guy takes time in the menu (not sure how that's counted by SDA, let's say ~ 1 sec).
- ...and in the mission. "Follow me" orders are carried out lazily. It took 8 seconds to move McGatt into position because he lagged so far behind. The 4th soldier would have lagged at least that much. Smedley was already in position and ready to shoot. (8 sec)
- The more soldiers there are in a team with "Follow" orders, the more they bump into each other and run off the direct course in various directions, causing further delays (?? sec)
- remember that bringing up the map in H&D to issue orders pauses everyone, so the mission doesn't progress. (1-2 sec)
If I subtract the above from the ~13 seconds it took for Smedley to blow up the armoured cars (which I think is the maximum that could theoretically be saved with a 4th soldier), well not many seconds could be saved if any.

In the meantime one has to be lucky in places not obvious from the video. There are 2-3 soldiers behind the train. They have to be walking either just behind the armoured cars to be blown up with them at the right moment, or be visible to McGatt to be shot down (i.e. not hiding behind another car). If these don't coincide, I'd have to run all the way behind the train to finish them (since it's a "kill them all" mission). Then the final soldier being shot is one that tries to sneak upon McGatt from below, and it took anywhere from 2 to around 7 seconds for McGatt to notice and kill this guy. Here he took only 2 seconds. There's a lot of "fuzzy" randomness in H&D which at places doesn't apply well to the mathematical approach, so in my practice playthroughs I learned to go with the lucky streaks where they happened.

It's possible that an experienced runner like yourself could squeeze the time further and I'd love to see other H&D speedrun videos.

One thing I regret in Mission 4 is that the truck couldn't speed it up. It's cumbersome to get into, it's slow, the hill is steep (so it's even slower there) and it's blown up all too easily by enemies close to the train. In most other missions where there's a driveable vehicle, it's very useful.

* Just remembered a good use of a 4th soldier. Smedley the "bazooka sharpshooter" is weak and couldn't carry a properly loaded SMG in addition to the launcher and the 3 rockets. So he had to pick up an MP40 which a 4th soldier could have made unnecessary.

[i]> having a fourth guy, with a sten gun, and giving him a move order on the map to get him in position[/i]

Sounds good in theory. Here are a few issues that must be factored in. As you pointed out the AI isn't very smart:
- move orders aren't carried out in a straight line, they zigzag and briefly stop at times. I went the straight route (2+ sec)
- management of the 4th guy takes time in the menu (not sure how that's counted by SDA, let's say ~ 1 sec).
- ...and in the mission. "Follow me" orders are carried out lazily. It took 8 seconds to move McGatt into position because he lagged so far behind. The 4th soldier would have lagged at least that much. Smedley was already in position and ready to shoot. (8 sec)
- The more soldiers there are in a team with "Follow" orders, the more they bump into each other and run off the direct course in various directions, causing further delays (?? sec)
- remember that bringing up the map in H&D to issue orders pauses everyone, so the mission doesn't progress. (1-2 sec)
If I subtract the above from the ~13 seconds it took for Smedley to blow up the armoured cars (which I think is the maximum that could theoretically be saved with a 4th soldier), well not many seconds could be saved if any.

In the meantime one has to be lucky in places not obvious from the video. There are 2-3 soldiers behind the train. They have to be walking either just behind the armoured cars to be blown up with them at the right moment, or be visible to McGatt to be shot down (i.e. not hiding behind another car). If these don't coincide, I'd have to run all the way behind the train to finish them (since it's a "kill them all" mission). Then the final soldier being shot is one that tries to sneak upon McGatt from below, and it took anywhere from 2 to around 7 seconds for McGatt to notice and kill this guy. Here he took only 2 seconds. There's a lot of "fuzzy" randomness in H&D which at places doesn't apply well to the mathematical approach, so in my practice playthroughs I learned to go with the lucky streaks where they happened.

It's possible that an experienced runner like yourself could squeeze the time further and I'd love to see other H&D speedrun videos.

One thing I regret in Mission 4 is that the truck couldn't speed it up. It's cumbersome to get into, it's slow, the hill is steep (so it's even slower there) and it's blown up all too easily by enemies close to the train. In most other missions where there's a driveable vehicle, it's very useful.

* Just remembered a good use of a 4th soldier. Smedley the "bazooka sharpshooter" is weak and couldn't carry a properly loaded SMG in addition to the launcher and the 3 rockets. So he had to pick up an MP40 which a 4th soldier could have made unnecessary.

Thinkshooter

2012-03-15 08:12:07 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Hi. Just a quick note to those who signed up to verify my H&D run.
When you signed up, the original run video was ready to upload. Then I got some neat tips from a veteran speedrunner. A private chat discussion followed leading to more shortcuts and tricks, so I decided against uploading an already-obsolete run. E.g. the 8-minute campaign 1 video on my Youtube channel is now shortened by almost a minute. Rerun number 4 (I think :), which should be the final one, is underway as my time allows. Breaking ground in a game which hasn't been speedrun before is definitely prone to unexpected improvements!

Thinkshooter

2012-05-21 05:31:59 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

The rerun is complete and uploading to SDA now.

Strongfox

2012-05-21 11:59:14 am

Quote from Thinkshooter:

The rerun is complete and uploading to SDA now.

Woot Woot

cant wait and hope it gets verified as accepted and uploaded to SDA soon Smiley

ExplodingCabbage

2012-05-21 02:11:37 pm

Gonna share any campaigns with the public prior to the run going up on SDA, Thinkshooter? Smiley

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2012-05-22 07:25:48 pm

2012-05-22 07:24:09 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Quote from Strongfox:

hope it gets verified as accepted and uploaded to SDA soon Smiley

Same here Strongfox!

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Gonna share any campaigns with the public prior to the run going up on SDA, Thinkshooter? Smiley

If SDA takes too long, I might do that.

I'm so glad that finding verifiers wasn't a problem in this case. H&D2 was hard to find verifiers for, even though that's a newer game. I wonder why that is - just because H&D1 is free and more players exist?...

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2012-10-08 05:46:22 pm

Thinkshooter: 2012-10-08 05:45:06 pm

2012-10-08 05:44:29 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Yeah

The run was just accepted.

http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/hidden__dangerous_1_deluxe__october_7th_2012_2.html

Thanks verifiers!

Now that it's accepted, I guess there's no harm in airing a Youtube video in the coming days.

The speedrun was recorded in Stereo 3D, so if you have any stereoscopic 3D display or glasses, it's going to be worth dusting them off. (But if you don't, you can watch the standard way too.)

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2012-10-14 02:15:54 am

Thinkshooter: 2012-10-12 07:21:56 pm

2012-10-12 07:20:33 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Hidden & Dangerous 1 Deluxe speedrun in stereoscopic 3D:

Please select 2x the intended quality to compensate for the double video. I recommend at least 720p.

You can adjust or turn off 3D using the 3D icon at the bottom.

An annotated 2D version is coming up later.

Thinkshooter

2012-12-21 06:03:38 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

To explain many tricks that may not be obvious, I've made the following annotated 2D version:

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2013-12-25 11:47:41 am

Thinkshooter: 2013-12-25 11:46:55 am

2013-12-24 09:32:22 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Season's greetings to all.

Hope you don't mind the (semi-)crosspost from the HD2 topic - this petition at Change.org for Hidden and Dangerous 3 could use some more votes:

http://www.change.org/petitions/2k-czech-make-hidden-and-dangerous-3

While I don't wish to overestimate the impact of online petitions, some new project ideas *are* started when people read about genuine business opportunities on the Internet.

Thanks.

Strongfox

2013-12-25 10:31:53 pm

Quote from Thinkshooter:

Season's greetings to all.

Hope you don't mind the (semi-)crosspost from the HD2 topic - this petition at Change.org for Hidden and Dangerous 3 could use some more votes:

http://www.change.org/petitions/2k-czech-make-hidden-and-dangerous-3

While I don't wish to overestimate the impact of online petitions, some new project ideas *are* started when people read about genuine business opportunities on the Internet.

Thanks.

Thanks for that Thinkshooter. Also any chance you may work on H&D1 again?

Thinkshooter

2013-12-27 06:09:48 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

>any chance you may work on H&D1 again?

You mean, further shorten the run?

I've put all my (and Cabbage's) ideas into the existing H&D Deluxe speedrun.

Did you notice any significant speedup opportunities we may have missed?

Strongfox

2013-12-27 04:32:03 pm

Quote from Thinkshooter:

>any chance you may work on H&D1 again?

You mean, further shorten the run?

I've put all my (and Cabbage's) ideas into the existing H&D Deluxe speedrun.

Did you notice any significant speedup opportunities we may have missed?

Not really. I may look into it after AGDQ Cheesy

Thinkshooter

2013-12-30 07:50:50 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Cool, let us know how it goes and if we can help.