Heretic

2006-10-24 09:58:04 pm

Quote:

So the general consensus is that because this is Jheretic, a port, meaning that it employs jumping to the system, the website won't accept it?

well, as far as I can tell, it won't be accepted at SDA..however..i'd still like to see it.
It has been ages since I've played heretic, so I'd definately be interested in at least some videos. (I don't have heretic, so playing demos won't work)

goodguy

Edit history:

goodguy: 2006-10-24 10:53:29 pm

2006-10-24 10:46:17 pm

Yeah - this is my first speedrun and I know it's not the fastest one out there, nor am I the most skilled, but I'm still proud of it. It's not a bad job.

Also, I know it could've been A LOT faster if I had done a segmented run, one map at a time, but I wanted to go with the endurance single segment episode runs (which was _VERY_ frustrating at times...especially when I die at the boss of an episode :-(, but also, harder to do than a segmented run -- therefore, in the end, that much more gratifying!)

I used jumping in a lot of places in the demo -- I cut out entire sections of maps, cut out gaining keys that I wouldn't need if I could make some jump instead, etc.

I'd venture to say it would be 5-10 minutes longer without the jumping.

My brother ran Doom II in roughly 20 minutes, which isn't bad, but keep in mind that these 5 episodes of Heretic are roughly equivalent to 40 maps, and having played Doom, Hexen and Heretic, I do believe the Heretic levels take longer than any of the others. I think many of the Heretic maps are more confined and harder to evade enemies in, and just have you running around more. In Doom you can blast your way through monsters easier and quicker, and have more open areas in which to breathe and just not worry about combat at all. In Hexen, you can eliminate huge chunks of hubs just by making some tough jumps here and there. So, I think it's natural that Heretic would take longer.

But, at the same time, I may be missing some huge, glaring secrets that could save me time. I don't know all the secrets in the game.

Anyway, it was a fun challenge for me, and hopefully one step closer to being as good as some of you guys. Smiley

Now -- I've got the Jheretic demos, which are a matter of kilobytes and then I have the wmvs which are lower quality (pretty shitty! lol) and have music over them. Those are about 65 megs or so each.

Let's see...

Yeah - this is my first speedrun and I know it's not the fastest one out there, nor am I the most skilled,  but I'm still proud of it.  It's not a bad job.

Also, I know it could've been A LOT faster if I had done a segmented run, one map at a time, but I wanted to go with the endurance single segment episode runs (which was _VERY_ frustrating at times...especially when I die at the boss of an episode :-(, but also, harder to do than a segmented run -- therefore, in the end, that much more gratifying!)

I used jumping in a lot of places in the demo -- I cut out entire sections of maps, cut out gaining keys that I wouldn't need if I could make some jump instead, etc.

I'd venture to say it would be 5-10 minutes longer without the jumping.

My brother ran Doom II in roughly 20 minutes, which isn't bad, but keep in mind that these 5 episodes of Heretic are roughly equivalent to 40 maps, and having played Doom, Hexen and Heretic, I do believe the Heretic levels take longer than any of the others.  I think many of the Heretic maps are more confined and harder to evade enemies in, and just have you running around more.  In Doom you can blast your way through monsters easier and quicker,  and have more open areas in which to breathe and just not worry about combat at all.  In Hexen, you can eliminate huge chunks of hubs just by making some tough jumps here and there.  So, I think it's natural that Heretic would take longer.

But, at the same time, I may be missing some huge, glaring secrets that could save me time.  I don't know all the secrets in the game.

Anyway, it was a fun challenge for me, and hopefully one step closer to being as good as some of you guys. :)

Now -- I've got the Jheretic demos, which are a matter of kilobytes and then I have the wmvs which are lower quality (pretty shitty! lol) and have music over them.  Those are about 65 megs or so each.

Let's see...

vincedss

2006-10-24 11:09:12 pm

Heretic and Doom fan

your times sound good, but I still think that it can be faster even without jumping. Just check my episodes run on my page. I didnt really spend much time on those.

If you want to find tricks, again, look at my page, all the speed demos may give you ideas on how to be faster.

Besides that, yes, heretic maps are quite much longer to finish than doom and doom2, so I think a time of 40 minutes would be pretty good without jumping.

vincedss

Edit history:

vincedss: 2007-10-03 04:29:05 pm

2007-10-03 04:28:57 pm

Heretic and Doom fan

nothing going on here apparently ?

you guys gave up ?

Serious_Cacodemon

2007-10-04 03:18:05 am

Obey the Daleks or be Exterminated! Riiiiiiight...

I'm not sure. I don't think anyone went forward and attempted to beat Stx-Vile's Skill 5 Episode runs with the original EXE, let alone trying to record it from a pure DOS environment instead of DOSBox.

stx-Vile

2007-10-04 04:33:46 am

The man made of sticks

Quote:

I'm not sure. I don't think anyone went forward and attempted to beat Stx-Vile's Skill 5 Episode runs with the original EXE, let alone trying to record it from a pure DOS environment instead of DOSBox.

I had recorded them in ZDoom since Heretic demo support, even with the latest patch, was broken. When recording a demo, the game would exit upon finishing a single level. Even better, it wouldn't even display the tally screen.

vincedss

2007-10-04 05:15:28 am

Heretic and Doom fan

@Vile

vv's mod fixes all these bugs, so it's now possible to record demos with heretic.exe just like doom2.exe would.

vincedss

Edit history:

vincedss: 2008-01-08 05:18:29 am

2007-12-30 04:40:00 am

Heretic and Doom fan

made a couple demos with heretic.exe (which means no jumping possible), still the times are faster than goodguy who did his runs with jumping....

episode 1 nightmare in 8:11 (skill 5 + respawn)
http://lsvc.free.fr/Heretic-N/Demos/Movies/h1nm-811.zip

episode 2 speed in 7:52
http://lsvc.free.fr/Heretic-N/Demos/Movies/h2sp-752.zip

episode 3 speed in 8:27
http://lsvc.free.fr/Heretic-N/Demos/Movies/h3sp-827.zip

episode 4 speed in 10:51
http://lsvc.free.fr/Heretic-N/Demos/Movies/h4sp1051.zip

no ep 5 yet.

ep2 and 3 are pretty old demos that I will hopefully improve.

goodguy

Edit history:

goodguy: 2008-02-21 03:19:55 am

2008-02-21 03:19:47 am

Good job Vincedss!

I went back and redid all of the episodes, segmented versions. But this is Jheretic, and includes jumping, so obviously I still have a lot to learn. At any rate, I enjoyed the experience. I will try to link if anyone cares - it's not the fastest, and it was mostly just for me. Thanks again for the support guys.

Episode 1: 7:05

Episode 2: 7:18

Episode 3: 8:47

Episode 4: 9:59

Episode 5: 12:16

This is my first speedrunning attempt. I will watch your demos without jumping and see how you pros do it :).

Hepe

2008-02-21 09:51:05 pm

Rye bread, beer and snus

I'd really like to see a good run of Heretic, it's just that i can't seem to get those demo files working. I'm using zDoom 2.1.4.

Same as with those Hexen demos I dl'd, didn't get them to work. And that one I REALLY wanted to see. I remember how long it took me to finish that game the first time, I was so lost in Shadow Wood and Castle of Grief.

vincedss

2008-03-10 05:22:34 am

Heretic and Doom fan

you will need the original DOS version of heretic v1.3 to view my demos ... no ports are able to play these demos yet.

if you have vista or xp, dosbox can help you.

Ghoti

2008-03-14 10:27:07 pm

Currently occupying the grey area.

Is anyone able to convert these file to avi format? Then people who are unable to get their hands on heretic can view it in all its awesomeness.

vincedss

2008-05-15 09:38:49 pm

Heretic and Doom fan

I think dosbox can capture AVIs, but they will be in 320x200 (low res)...

vincedss

Edit history:

vincedss: 2010-05-09 09:01:20 am

2010-05-09 08:51:47 am

Heretic and Doom fan

I uploaded all the single levels videos on youtube here :

(this is is the link to E1M1, then just look at my other videos)

All the original demos can be found here, links to archive in the Rules and Info sections

http://lsvc.free.fr/Heretic-N/

Notes: - some of the times have been beaten already.
- several people worked on these demos, not just me.
- I also have demos of single segment episode runs, but some arent so great looking and need to get time to convert them to AVI's.

vincedss

Edit history:

vincedss: 2010-05-17 01:10:09 pm

2010-05-16 09:40:09 am

Heretic and Doom fan

I uploaded the Heretic-N demos of each episode. The demos are single-segment and were recorded using heretic.exe in DOS or Win98. I used DOSBOX to playback the demos and record the AVI's. The original recordings (or LMP) are available on my website.

Note : The longer videos are split to fit in the youtube 10 mins limit. Keep in mind they have been recorded in one shot (or single segment), so there are obvious playing flows.

Episode 1 :

Episode 2 :

Episode 3 :
Part 1 :
Part 2 :

Episode 4 :
Part 1 :
Part 2 :

Episode 5 :
Part 1 :
Part 2 :

zoonel

2010-05-16 04:24:19 pm

Go play spacechem !

good to see some heretic speedruns :), i love the game, good job man.
What's the difficulty you did the runs on? Also why did you kill d'sparil with the first rod, does it do more damage to him?

Too bad you cant submit those :'(, you used the altered exe that's on your site right?

vincedss

Edit history:

vincedss: 2010-05-17 06:56:16 pm

2010-05-16 08:29:45 pm

Heretic and Doom fan

First, I did not personally record this Ep3 run Smiley

The phoenix rod + tome is way more powerful but more dangerous because it requires close range . So I think he goes the safe way because by Heretic-N and its mother Compet-N rules the ExM8 time does not count in a movie time.

The difficulty is "Skill 4" also called "Thou Art A Smite Meister", which is the equivalent of Ultra-Violence in Doom.

The EXE we use is indeed not the original. We use a patch that changes a few bytes in the original EXE to fix the bugs and issues it had with demo (LMP) recording. So it's not a port but a hack. It is necessary or it would be impossible to record multilevel runs or get the stats screen to show (the game shuts down when you die or exit a level, I think Hexen does the same).

Unless Radix allows our patch (which can be checked by coders to verify there are no cheats), the only way I could get these run on the SDA is to record myself using a VCR tape.

I got a PC with Win98 and a composite S-video port, so I guess I could do it but that would be a whole ordeal xD

First, I did not personally record this Ep3 run :) 
The phoenix rod + tome is way more powerful but more dangerous because it requires close range . So I think he goes the safe way because by Heretic-N and its mother Compet-N rules the ExM8 time does not count in a movie time.

The difficulty is "Skill 4" also called "Thou Art A Smite Meister", which is the equivalent of Ultra-Violence in Doom.

The EXE we use is indeed not the original. We use a patch that changes a few bytes in the original EXE to fix the bugs and issues it had with demo (LMP) recording. So it's not a port but a hack. It is necessary or it would be impossible to record multilevel runs or get the stats screen to show (the game shuts down when you die or exit a level, I think Hexen does the same).

Unless Radix allows our patch (which can be checked by coders to verify there are no cheats), the only way I could get these run on the SDA is to record myself using a VCR tape.

I got a PC with Win98 and a composite S-video port, so I guess I could do it but that would be a whole ordeal xD

zoonel

2010-05-19 09:31:50 am

Go play spacechem !

I've read somewhere on this forum that the doom speedrun was recorded with an emulator playing back an original demo file (done on dos/win98). I think the main problem is the altered exe file. But i know close to nothing about the submissions rules, so its better to ask the person in charge.

Still its a very good run and good job to the guy who did Ep3 then Cheesy

(searched your site for the movie category, seems like other movies than those posted)

vincedss

2010-05-20 10:10:00 pm

Heretic and Doom fan

you're right, seems like I converted the older ep3 demo. I will fix that this week end.

EP4 and 5 look more sloppy but that's mainly because of their difficulty and monster count.

Otherwise there are other types of movies : Black Plague, Nightmare! and maxkills (the later does not have any demos but the category is opened)
I did not convert these as not all the Episodes have been completed in these categories. Some might even be near impossible.

D4mN

2014-07-06 02:57:38 am

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum, decided to register to share my run of Heretic, my favorite game to speedrun.
I've been focusing on the 3 first episodes here, and ended up getting
E1 : 6:31/7:04
E2 : 5:43/6:51
E3 : 7:14/8:25
(In game time / Total with boss)
For a total of 22:20

Here it is :

Cubeface

2014-07-16 10:35:00 pm

Hey D4mN, that run is really impressive! I run the game as well and I thought my times were the fastest, I'm glad to see someone else has such great times!

LotBlind

2014-07-17 12:38:07 pm

I put in casual speed runs at the early levels at one point. Might see me in verification if there's no emu problems vs. SDA rules. Getting caught in places is such a reality for runs of this game and thus RNG counts for a lot.

D4mN

2014-07-20 08:06:15 pm

Your times were pretty good Cube, i would say the strat i used made the difference, like it's very time saving, but more risky ofc (some items are not usefull like invisibilty, the time it takes to get them is longer than the time it saves)
Hope that you will get back in SRing the game, with some of these strats and beat my record !
I actually have some ideas, crazy tricks in mind, might be cool if i can make it happen someday. (like i can make it up the left waterfall in E3M3 with tornado, so basically make it 0:30 i guess)
You get pretty much stuck everywhere in this game yeah, like very easely.
There are some behaviours you can predict, but it's quite difficult some times.