Heretic 2 in progress

j.calling.2bad

Edit history:

j.calling.2bad: 2010-05-20 01:17:23 pm

2009-10-10 01:40:38 pm

Yet before I sink into the world of Fahrenheit, I'm going to run this, because it's been on my mind for a long time now, and it shouldn't take that long to finish, since this game is super fun to run (as well as frustration), and since my routes are pretty much done and as they are, I should be able to finish the game in 40-50 mins, if not less.

I'm going for Adventure skill. Yea I know, "omgz datz liek tooooooo easy!!!!" Well, I couldn't agree more, BUT - choosing this difficulty allows me to ignore vast majority of enemies and using some damaging shortcuts (with the damage being too big on higher difficulties). And of course, the run is still challanging one to do, as manoeuvring Corvus quickly isn't easy at all, because his moves aren't exacty precise, are they. And, I'm pretty sure the run will be entertaining even with that difficulty. Wink

Docks - 0:31
Warehouses - 0:59 (0:58 is possible)
Town of Silverspring - 1:17
Silverspring palace - 2:30
Darkmire swamps - 1:22
Andoria healer tower - 2:39
Andoria plaza - 0:51
Andoria academic quarters - 1:37
Andoria plaza part 2 - 1:08
Andoria slums - 1:34
Andoria plaza part 3 - 0:31
Andoria healer tower part 2 - 0:21
Kell caves - 1:41
Katlit'k Canyon - 1:38
K'chekrik hive - 0:58
K'chekrik hive 2 - 2:30
K'chekrik hive part 2 - 0:37
The gauntlet - 1:31
The trail pit - 0:34
Lair of the mothers - 2:43
Ogle mines - 0:50
Ogle mines 2 - 0:52
Morcalavin's dungeon - 2:26
Cloud fortress
Morcalavin's inner sanctum
Cloud fortress labs
Cloud fortress part 2
Cloud living quarters
Cloud fortress part 3
Morcalavin's inner sanctum part 2

I know I know, I still haven't finished Tomb Raider Legend run, but I might, as well, never finish that one (reasons aren't important for this), so...yeah.

Also, you might know of some shortcut or speed-up I don't, but making a list of stuff I already know would take a bit long indeed, so just sit back, watch the runs as they come and tell me if you know about anything improvable if you can and want. Thanks. Smiley

Thread title:

Yet before I sink into the world of Fahrenheit, I'm going to run this, because it's been on my mind for a long time now, and it shouldn't take that long to finish, since this game is super fun to run (as well as frustration), and since my routes are pretty much done and as they are, I should be able to finish the game in 40-50 mins, if not less.

I'm going for Adventure skill. Yea I know, "omgz datz liek tooooooo easy!!!!" Well, I couldn't agree more, BUT - choosing this difficulty allows me to ignore vast majority of enemies and using some damaging shortcuts (with the damage being too big on higher difficulties). And of course, the run is still challanging one to do, as manoeuvring Corvus quickly isn't easy at all, because his moves aren't exacty precise, are they. And, I'm pretty sure the run will be entertaining even with that difficulty. ;)

Docks - 0:31
Warehouses - 0:59 (0:58 is possible)
Town of Silverspring - 1:17
Silverspring palace - 2:30 
Darkmire swamps - 1:22
Andoria healer tower - 2:39
Andoria plaza - 0:51
Andoria academic quarters - 1:37
Andoria plaza part 2 - 1:08
Andoria slums - 1:34
Andoria plaza part 3 - 0:31
Andoria healer tower part 2 - 0:21
Kell caves - 1:41
Katlit'k Canyon - 1:38
K'chekrik hive - 0:58
K'chekrik hive 2 - 2:30
K'chekrik hive part 2 - 0:37
The gauntlet - 1:31
The trail pit - 0:34
Lair of the mothers - 2:43
Ogle mines - 0:50
Ogle mines 2 - 0:52
Morcalavin's dungeon - 2:26
Cloud fortress
Morcalavin's inner sanctum
Cloud fortress labs
Cloud fortress part 2
Cloud living quarters
Cloud fortress part 3
Morcalavin's inner sanctum part 2

I know I know, I still haven't finished Tomb Raider Legend run, but I might, as well, never finish that one (reasons aren't important for this), so...yeah.

Also, you might know of some shortcut or speed-up I don't, but making a list of stuff I already know would take a bit long indeed, so just sit back, watch the runs as they come and tell me if you know about anything improvable if you can and want. Thanks. :)

Lag.Com

2009-10-10 02:25:48 pm

sda loyalist

stx-Vile started a run of this and got pretty far. You should dig up his old videos and compare.

j.calling.2bad

2009-10-10 02:40:01 pm

I know and I wanted to check his vids, but they don't exist anywhere anymore, or do they...? Undecided

j.calling.2bad

2009-10-12 01:31:22 pm

Warehouses in 1:01 - I might decide to improve it, as I can imagine some 2 seconds being cut off, but that would take quite a bit of luck, and as pretty much all of my previous attempts took 1:04+, I might as well keep it. Although, as I've been checking stx-Vile's thread, someone mentions something about pushing one of the barrels somewhere and using it to reach the floor with the button in the end of the level, but I never managed anything playing with that. If someone'd clear this out to me, I'd definitely improve it. Wink

j.calling.2bad

2010-04-20 10:50:30 am

I'm fully back to this now. Over the time I didn't play a tiny bit if this game I lost all the feeling I had for it, so it'll take a while before it gets back under my skin again, but once it will, I'll start recording. Also, as I can see the links are dead for some time now, so I decided to do it a bit differently - I'll record whole chapters, then upload them to youtube, them post them here. Wink

Roy_Hess

2010-04-20 01:17:38 pm

unemployed Dragon

Take your time, I'd like to see a Heretic II speedrun, though I never played the whole game..
had the demo for some time - years ago.
Good luck

j.calling.2bad

2010-04-21 12:06:35 pm

Already started recording, finished the first two levels and got exactly the same times as before. Tongue

j.calling.2bad

2010-04-25 06:35:26 am

EDIT: Added a time-table to the main post of what I got so far.

j.calling.2bad

2010-04-28 01:50:11 pm

first video!
Gimmie your thoughts...yeah and make sure to read the description.

j.calling.2bad

2010-05-06 03:39:28 pm

Whole Andoria done in 08:41. I'm like SOOO glad I'm over Andoria! So, so glad! The time ain't perfect, but it's impossible to execute things perfectly in this game, as I've already mentioned before...I consider this time satisfying enough, so...yeah. Video tommorow.

Roy_Hess

2010-05-07 02:31:24 pm

unemployed Dragon

Wow, it all comes back when I saw your YT video for the first level.
Your gameplay looks like Tomb Raider in fast speed Cheesy

Nice shortcuts in the crate area to climb up that rope, quick fight with the boss enemy.
That looks pretty promising!

Some questions:
Can't you abort the starting movie?
is there a stumble penalty when landing on ground after a long fall? (end 1st map)

j.calling.2bad

2010-05-07 03:06:59 pm

You can skip the intro, but I thought I might just record it so that it...doesn't feel so empty. I also thought about recording the outro once it comes to it... Undecided

But of course I can leave it out while encoding the SDA version if it won't be welcomed! Wink

As for the stumble penalty, yes, you roll after a long fall if you keep holding forward, and you bend your knees when you don't hold anything, but sometimes it can be cancelled by some tricky wall-hit-manoeuvre (I'm not sure if I do so in the first part, but there is one moment in the second part that I remember). All in all cancelling stumbles of any kind is extremely unreliable though, so when they come, I don't really consider them a good reason to retry a segment, unless they happen to be at the very beginning. And by the way, if you found the way I dropped through the hole from the first level to the second a bit awkward, I did it that way because of the rope and of the fact Curvus grabs it automatically and it takes him quite a while before he gains the ability to release it. Really, however bad it looks, that right there is one of the fastest way down I know.

And now, Andoria! - I'm really sorry the quality sucks ass compared to the first video, but I suppose Youtube managed to make another superb change since the first video was up, because now, when I upload an HQ anri-chan encoded video, it stretches it's lenght, doubles it's duration and plays in an extreme slo-mo. I suppose anri-chan didn't change, so it has to be Youtube.

You can skip the intro, but I thought I might just record it so that it...doesn't feel so empty. I also thought about recording the outro once it comes to it... :-\
But of course I can leave it out while encoding the SDA version if it won't be welcomed! ;)

As for the stumble penalty, yes, you roll after a long fall if you keep holding forward, and you bend your knees when you don't hold anything, but sometimes it can be cancelled by some tricky wall-hit-manoeuvre (I'm not sure if I do so in the first part, but there is one moment in the second part that I remember). All in all cancelling stumbles of any kind is extremely unreliable though, so when they come, I don't really consider them a good reason to retry a segment, unless they happen to be at the very beginning. And by the way, if you found the way I dropped through the hole from the first level to the second a bit awkward, I did it that way because of the rope and of the fact Curvus grabs it automatically and it takes him quite a while before he gains the ability to release it. Really, however bad it looks, that right there is one of the fastest way down I know.

And now, Andoria! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYft92__XXc - I'm really sorry the quality sucks ass compared to the first video, but I suppose Youtube managed to make another superb change since the first video was up, because now, when I upload an HQ anri-chan encoded video, it stretches it's lenght, doubles it's duration and plays in an extreme slo-mo. I suppose anri-chan didn't change, so it has to be Youtube.

j.calling.2bad

2010-05-10 10:18:44 am

Phew, Gauntlet was tough! it was actually so tough I had to segment it three times! With one of the segments being only 11 seconds long (admittedly the hardest 11 seconds of the run, but still). Oh well, two more levels and third part is up!

j.calling.2bad

2010-05-10 02:45:18 pm

Part 3 is up

j.calling.2bad

2010-06-20 01:22:51 pm

Just to let you know (if anyone cares), I cancel this run. Yes, I was pretty close to finishing it, but...this game is just too much.

madpanic

2010-06-24 09:07:34 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well, even if no one else will say it, I am truly disappointed. I always loved this game and would have greatly enjoyed seeing a run of it. This is at least the second abandoned run for this game and I am now wondering if it will ever be run.

What makes this game so frustrating or hard to run that every attempt ends in the runner deciding not to do it? Undecided

mp.

j.calling.2bad

2010-06-25 12:07:46 pm

I'll at least keep those three parts I made up on my YT account.

And what made me decide not to do it? Well, let me clear that up for you...you see, the list of all the things that make running this game so frustrating is rather long, so I'll just point out the most apparent ones. First, the random invisible objects of random size randomly flying around each level - as long as you manage to manouvre Curvus in free space, this issue isn't so bad, but even then Curvus sometimes tends to get stuck in nothing, literally. You just run and suddenly, you get stuck. Second thing, some walls can actually kill Curvus. Just jump into them in the right angle from the right distance and the trick is done. You may be wondering why would I intentionally jump into walls? You see, there are few spots for wall-backflip requiring you to jump from a very precise spot and distance, making it easily possible the get killed by the wall. Third thing, the enemies. If you don't take your time to kill them, you come to notice how bloody many of them there are, scattered around the levels (especially the later ones, where I gave up). So many enemies make nothing but another big moving obstacle, which even can get you stuck as well. Fourth thing, manouvring Curvus. You may think it's a matter of practice, but, apparently, it's not entirely true. I've been playing this game since I can't even remember, I'm pretty sure I've practiced my soul out of this game, and still, manouvring Curvus alone is extremely frustrating. At first it was also one of the major sources of fun, but after a while, only the frustration remained.

To conclude, all four of above factors can be combined, and in such situation you have to be one hell of a patient runner to finish it. I believed I will, for my patience passed an extreme test (Tomb Raider Legend - final segment, 17 247 attempts, approximately 1 month taken), but this game...this game is, as I said, just too much. Even for me. I wish the best of luck to the next tempter. Maybe it will be me, maybe one day I will say to myself "hey, you were so close, just few levels left, so close to finishing the run, and gave up? Cmon, get back to it, you can do it...", but that's a very outlying future.

I'll at least keep those three parts I made up on my YT account.

And what made me decide not to do it? Well, let me clear that up for you...you see, the list of all the things that make running this game so frustrating is rather long, so I'll just point out the most apparent ones. First, the random invisible objects of random size randomly flying around each level - as long as you manage to manouvre Curvus in free space, this issue isn't so bad, but even then Curvus sometimes tends to get stuck in nothing, literally. You just run and suddenly, you get stuck. Second thing, some walls can actually kill Curvus. Just jump into them in the right angle from the right distance and the trick is done. You may be wondering why would I intentionally jump into walls? You see, there are few spots for wall-backflip requiring you to jump from a very precise spot and distance, making it easily possible the get killed by the wall. Third thing, the enemies. If you don't take your time to kill them, you come to notice how bloody many of them there are, scattered around the levels (especially the later ones, where I gave up). So many enemies make nothing but another big moving obstacle, which even can get you stuck as well. Fourth thing, manouvring Curvus. You may think it's a matter of practice, but, apparently, it's not entirely true. I've been playing this game since I can't even remember, I'm pretty sure I've practiced my soul out of this game, and still, manouvring Curvus alone is extremely frustrating. At first it was also one of the major sources of fun, but after a while, only the frustration remained.

To conclude, all four of above factors can be combined, and in such situation you have to be one hell of a patient runner to finish it. I believed I will, for my patience passed an extreme test (Tomb Raider Legend - final segment, 17 247 attempts, approximately 1 month taken), but this game...this game is, as I said, just too much. Even for me. I wish the best of luck to the next tempter. Maybe it will be me, maybe one day I will say to myself "hey, you were so close, just few levels left, so close to finishing the run, and gave up? Cmon, get back to it, you can do it...", but that's a very outlying future.

KhanFusion

2010-06-25 12:42:28 pm

If some of the levels are so hellish, why not break them into segments?

j.calling.2bad

2010-06-25 01:32:31 pm

I didn't want to segment a 40 min run like hundred times...besides, segmenting so much it would actually HELP, would also consume a hell lot of time, because mostly I keep moving through entire segments, stopping only occasionally. Obviously segmenting would require me to stop, and if I was to segment so many times it would make things easier, the run could easily be several minutes longer than without it.

Artas1984

2010-07-04 07:37:33 am

This is disappointing.

First of all, you should have started making this speedrun on a P A T C H E D game - version 1.06. This also would be needed for qualifying SDA rules.
This would have solved some of your technical problems too. I played Heretic alot, and can not remember any case that i would get instantly killed jumping into a wall. This is BS.
But i do remember a few cases where i would get stuck in strange places. Having said that i used to spend lots of time in Heretic II just doing shortcuts for fun.

The K'chekrik and the trap room was the hardest part in game and you recorded it, so i am quite disturbed by the fact that you will not progress after that.

If you had finished your run, i would have hosted your video in my own server btw.

madpanic

2010-07-05 10:35:52 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

j.calling.2bad - Thanks for the explanation. I can understand why your frustration level would rise to the point you would stop the run. I got pretty frustrated just playing this game let alone trying to do it as fast as possible. Hopefully one day you'll get back to this run.

Thanks,

mp.

j.calling.2bad

2010-07-05 03:12:46 pm

Artas1984: As a matter of fact, I was playing the patched version. Perhaps some of the issues come along after too many reloads - in that case this surely wouldn't be the first game to have such problem.

madpanic: yeah, well...maybe I will. Actually I believe it quite a lot. I am one of those who don't mind coming back to OLD projects.

Artas1984

2010-07-08 06:01:04 am

I would like to see a video, where you bump into a wall and die - are there specific places in the game where it does happen all the time or is it random? That is important.

j.calling.2bad

2010-07-08 12:00:55 pm

Some places are random, some places seemed very specific - like in the second level while walljumping onto the wooden platform at the beginning; it happened almost too often back there. I would love to provide a video, but I deleted everything.

Artas1984

2010-07-08 06:31:52 pm

My server is back online.

If you want, i can host your Heretic 2 speedrun videos. You will have a 2 Mbit/s speed from anywhere. I will support file size over 1 Gb also.
However in that case you must finish recording the whole game.

You should know that i am a speedruner myself (Painkiller, Hexen 2) and will definitely support Heretic 2.