Half-Minute Hero : The Second Coming

2014-05-25 12:33:41 pm

Hello everyone.

As i was saying here, i'm starting to route Half-Minute Hero : The Second Coming (HMHTSC in short)

I'm doing an any% route, from the "New Game" input until the end. I know there's a Time Attack mode in game, but i don't like it, because you keep all your gear and level from your playthrough, so you just need to level your main character level 100 and just rush everything, which is pretty stupid.

I was searching for JP speedruns of this game but i didn't find any...

So ! Here are my notes so far:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14RmB5v1wocPUiVBqcQE_fvyMpNUcPhpK2CMT7FxeiEk/
This is a WIP and far from being clear, but we need to begin somewhere !

I have notes for 17 quests (Chapter 1 and a bit of chapter 2). But let's talk about some tips here:

* You can skip all dialog just pressing Start (on a XBox controller)
* You can let your allies take and deal some damages before attacking yourself. It's useful at some points when the ennemies are too strong.
* You cannot die in this game, except if the time is over. So, at some point, dying is a good way to warp near the first town.
* Some weapons allows to OS some monsters. The Bug Swatter kill every bugs in one attack, which is pretty good because you are quickly underleveled.
* It's better to buy your equipment during a Quest, vecause you loose 90% of your gold when you finish it. It's nice to finish a quest with an herb btw.

That's all i have in mind ATM.
If you want to contribute, i can make the docs editable by everyone.

I think the full run will be like 3/4 hours, not sure at all, because some chapters will be very hard to beat.

Thread title:

Hello everyone.

As i was saying [url="https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/halfminute_hero__the_second_coming.html"]here[/url], i'm starting to route Half-Minute Hero : The Second Coming (HMHTSC in short)

I'm doing an any% route, from the "New Game" input until the end. I know there's a Time Attack mode in game, but i don't like it, because you keep all your gear and level from your playthrough, so you just need to level your main character level 100 and just rush everything, which is pretty stupid.

I was searching for JP speedruns of this game but i didn't find any...

So ! Here are my notes so far:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14RmB5v1wocPUiVBqcQE_fvyMpNUcPhpK2CMT7FxeiEk/
This is a WIP and far from being clear, but we need to begin somewhere !

I have notes for 17 quests (Chapter 1 and a bit of chapter 2). But let's talk about some tips here:

* You can skip all dialog just pressing Start (on a XBox controller)
* You can let your allies take and deal some damages before attacking yourself. It's useful at some points when the ennemies are too strong.
* You cannot die in this game, except if the time is over. So, at some point, dying is a good way to warp near the first town.
* Some weapons allows to OS some monsters. The Bug Swatter kill every bugs in one attack, which is pretty good because you are quickly underleveled.
* It's better to buy your equipment during a Quest, vecause you loose 90% of your gold when you finish it. It's nice to finish a quest with an herb btw.

That's all i have in mind ATM.
If you want to contribute, i can make the docs editable by everyone.

I think the full run will be like 3/4 hours, not sure at all, because some chapters will be very hard to beat.

MHFsilver

2014-05-25 10:35:13 pm

iQue Guy

This game looks interesting. I think I played the original on my PSP, could have the wrong game though. I'd be interested in seeing runs. Do you have any finished runs that you can link me? Or you could link your Twitch and I'd be happy to follow

Enkimy

2014-05-26 05:30:23 am

At the time i doesn't have any full run, unfortunatly.

I have a video of the first chapter, but it is with some old strat. I think i can win like 2 minutes on this one. http://www.twitch.tv/enkimy/c/4210656
The quality isn't perfect (i doesn't have a good connection ATM, but it will change in some month)

Sorry, i'm speaking french on this video, but if you (or any English speaker) step by i will talk English !

I will redo a proper run of first chapter this evening (GMT + 1) and continue my notes.

Enkimy

Edit history:

Enkimy: 2014-05-28 08:27:52 am

Enkimy: 2014-05-26 07:34:13 pm

2014-05-26 07:30:13 pm

Ok, i got a time for chapter 1 and 2, and it's 54:45. I made many mistakes (it was 2AM when i started), but i have strategy for almost everything.

As expected, the two last battle of chapter 2 (Q24 and Q25) are very hard and i need to use some Spirit Stone to get some level in the beginning. They are incredibly slow, but i doesn't have any better strategy for now, except maybe farm some level in the World Map (but this is slow too).
EDIT: Ok, i started to route Chapter 3, and you need level 3. So Q24 and Q25 are far easier. Notes aren't up to date

I also have found an optimization to get level 2 on the World map without losing so much time: the bug swatter is working on the World map, so if you kill every bug you encounter, you'll get level 2 without any extra battle. I need to find the better spot and to update my notes.

Video: http://www.twitch.tv/enkimy/c/4335285 (In approximative English)

3 more chapter to do !

Enkimy

2014-05-30 07:29:55 pm

No update since a while. I'm stuck at Long Bridge because the ennemies here are stronger, and i don't have anything to kill one of them easily as i can do sooner with Beat Beast or Bug Swatter.
I suppose i need to level up a bit here, but i don't know how much and where. So it's testing time, i'll post any update here.

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2014-07-03 04:27:47 am

Garlyle: 2014-07-03 04:20:08 am

Garlyle: 2014-07-03 04:17:42 am

Garlyle: 2014-07-02 09:42:46 am

2014-07-02 09:28:53 am

That Guy

So there IS a thread for this game! Fantastic!

For the record, Time Attack isn't quite useless. Although you maintain equipment access, your level for TA is always a set value based on the quest in question (for instance, for Q12 you're set to 5; for ABYSS you're set to 99 - this applies whether your global level is higher or lower). You're correct in that this is still pointless for a large number of stages, but it might be the only sensible way to see Hero 3 Dash and ABYSS speedrun (they're intended to be done with full equipment access anyway, really).

I would like to get into speedrunning this as well. I feel like if you need to be using Spirit Stones... ever, something's probably going wrong and you're really underlevelled. Yes, levelling on the world map is slow - but it's worth noting that the alternative is incredibly slow starts on every stage due to a level deficiency. Take 20 seconds to cast a Spirit Stone... or take 20 seconds levelling on the world map and save yourself that cost including in future levels/needing to level. That said, I'm going to have to watch the video (and stalk you on twitch) and start testing it out myself to see what actually feels optimal in practice. Hopefully I catch your stream sometime or something.

EDIT: 56:15 at the results screen of Judgement on my second attempt, without really stepping into the room of optimizations. I finished at GLv 5. I have a huge amount of room for optimizations as there were fewer major screwups than the run you did, but I'm not terribly far behind (and never had to break a spirit stone open). I need to make a list of what levels I should be targetting for bosses/major objectives, as that's most of it - I'm pretty sure I overlevel by 3-4 often.

When it comes to grinding, you can use the Bug Swatter on the world map - I've been re-entering Infinite Maze with it still equipped, and running to either the herb or magic robe gets me 3 by that point. Swapping the Beast Beat on after the map where you get Rina lets you wreck the moles outside easily for level 4 (which makes certain stages, like Engage Hero Castle much less stupid), although they're not in close proximity to make it terribly fast. I'm able to end up at 5-6 just by kiling things while travelling between stages after that which is fairly comfortable and removes any need for spirit stones whatsoever. But I'm probably overestimating how much time I'm losing.

Quote from MHFsilver:

This game looks interesting. I think I played the original on my PSP, could have the wrong game though. I'd be interested in seeing runs. Do you have any finished runs that you can link me? Or you could link your Twitch and I'd be happy to follow

That's quite possible. The original was released on PSP, redone for XBLA (I think), and then brought to PC with both versions. The sequel was on PSP but never left Japan until the day that suddenly a Steam release happened.
(I'm using the results screen pop-up to time individual stage splits because the moment is displays is entirely predictable so you can be accurate; my first attempt I kept trying to do it on the moment you get the boss death slashes but that didn't really work well)

So there IS a thread for this game!  Fantastic!

For the record, Time Attack isn't quite useless.  Although you maintain equipment access, your level for TA is always a set value based on the quest in question (for instance, for Q12 you're set to 5; for ABYSS you're set to 99 - this applies whether your global level is higher [i]or[/i] lower).  You're correct in that this is still pointless for a large number of stages, but it might be the only sensible way to see Hero 3 Dash and ABYSS speedrun (they're intended to be done with full equipment access anyway, really).

I would like to get into speedrunning this as well.  I feel like if you need to be using Spirit Stones... [i]ever[/i], something's probably going wrong and you're really underlevelled.  Yes, levelling on the world map is slow - but it's worth noting that the alternative is incredibly slow starts on every stage due to a level deficiency.  Take 20 seconds to cast a Spirit Stone... or take 20 seconds levelling on the world map and save yourself that cost [i]including in future levels/needing to level[/i].  That said, I'm going to have to watch the video (and stalk you on twitch) and start testing it out myself to see what actually feels optimal in practice.  Hopefully I catch your stream sometime or something.

EDIT: 56:15 at the results screen of Judgement on my second attempt, without really stepping into the room of optimizations.  I finished at GLv 5.  I have a huge amount of room for optimizations as there were fewer major screwups than the run you did, but I'm not terribly far behind (and never had to break a spirit stone open).  I need to make a list of what levels I should be targetting for bosses/major objectives, as that's most of it - I'm pretty sure I overlevel by 3-4 often.

When it comes to grinding, you can use the Bug Swatter on the world map - I've been re-entering Infinite Maze with it still equipped, and running to either the herb or magic robe gets me 3 by that point.  Swapping the Beast Beat on after the map where you get Rina lets you wreck the moles outside easily for level 4 (which makes certain stages, like Engage Hero Castle much less stupid), although they're not in close proximity to make it terribly fast.  I'm able to end up at 5-6 just by kiling things while travelling between stages after that which is fairly comfortable and removes any need for spirit stones whatsoever.  But I'm probably overestimating how much time I'm losing.

[quote="MHFsilver"]This game looks interesting. I think I played the original on my PSP, could have the wrong game though. I'd be interested in seeing runs. Do you have any finished runs that you can link me? Or you could link your Twitch and I'd be happy to follow[/quote]That's quite possible.  The original was released on PSP, redone for XBLA (I think), and then brought to PC with both versions.  The sequel was on PSP but never left Japan until the day that suddenly a Steam release happened.
(I'm using the results screen pop-up to time individual stage splits because the moment is displays is entirely predictable so you can be accurate; my first attempt I kept trying to do it on the moment you get the boss death slashes but that didn't really work well)

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2014-07-06 03:59:40 pm

Garlyle: 2014-07-05 07:38:27 pm

Garlyle: 2014-07-05 03:44:06 pm

Garlyle: 2014-07-04 07:31:05 pm

Garlyle: 2014-07-04 06:52:40 pm

Garlyle: 2014-07-04 06:29:12 pm

2014-07-04 06:26:26 pm

That Guy

Okay so I finally sat down and more or less light attempted the game start to finish.

You can trivialize SO much of Revolution with either the Beast Beat or Fly Swatter it's hilarious. Unfortunately, there's Long Bridge and the stages at the Empire's Capital are NOT able to be easymoded - I think you need 7 or 8 at Long Bridge. You can get a great weapon the stage before the capital stages so that's not a problem, and in fact I'd highly recommend grinding to at least 9 right outside the temple of time (Bug Swatter). Though you can get through Revolution at 7-8, it's almost impossible to clear the first stage of Ragnarok at only 8-9.

It's possible - you have to rush to the first town, get the 'kill 30 monsters quest', rush to the second town, buy an herb, grab the castle, and trash monsters 'till you get 30; turn in the miniquest for the battle shoes, and then at 8 you'll be able to kill enemies - if they don't land any critical hits. You'll be struggling just to get off your feet and RNG can make any non-perfect run dead. 9 also makes the next stage really painful - because you either struggle to even get off your feet with any weapon, or equip the Beast Beat and then find the missing 50-ish attack power makes the jump from deer -> giant shrooms all but impossible. (There's still a couple stages in Ragnarok where the instant killers are useful though, like The Holy One because you replace it with the cursed sword anyway) 10, with popping open the equip menu, changing class to Fighter, and setting Boost Hero formation frankly saves you so much time struggling just to start that chapter I'd say it's worth it.

As far as grinding goes, going to 10 isn't hard outside of the Temple of Time and the amount of raw frustration it saves with the early stages of Ragnarok is huge. After that, if you can hold out 'till the Battle Coliseum chapter is done (roughly halfway through Ragnarok; it's not hard since you can get the Blood Axe finally), you can duck into the colosseum's basement first floor with the Bug Swatter and grind the enemies there really quickly to about 16, which is enough to complete the rest of the game comfortably. The trick is just finding a decent place in the early game to grind to get to that point because Long Bridge is a pain in the arse.

Surprise of the day though was realising you can entirely skip the final Yashu fight (the one where you have to fight his castle). ...So I guess Destiny's only four stages long.

EDIT: Got it down to 2:41:55.xx with Judgment's results screen popping up at 48 minutes(which surprised the hell out of me when I realised I was at that point); I should break 2:30 soon.

Okay so I finally sat down and more or less light attempted the game start to finish.

You can trivialize SO much of Revolution with either the Beast Beat or Fly Swatter it's hilarious.  Unfortunately, there's Long Bridge and the stages at the Empire's Capital are NOT able to be easymoded - I think you need 7 or 8 at Long Bridge.  You can get a great weapon the stage before the capital stages so that's not a problem, and in fact I'd highly recommend grinding to at least 9 right outside the temple of time (Bug Swatter).  Though you can get through Revolution at 7-8, it's [i]almost[/i] impossible to clear the first stage of Ragnarok at only 8-9.

It's possible - you have to rush to the first town, get the 'kill 30 monsters quest', rush to the second town, buy an herb, grab the castle, and trash monsters 'till you get 30; turn in the miniquest for the battle shoes, and then at 8 you'll be able to kill enemies - [i]if[/i] they don't land any critical hits.  You'll be struggling just to get off your feet and RNG can make any non-perfect run dead.  9 also makes the next stage really painful - because you either struggle to even get off your feet with any weapon, or equip the Beast Beat and then find the missing 50-ish attack power makes the jump from deer -> giant shrooms all but impossible.  (There's still a couple stages in Ragnarok where the instant killers are useful though, like The Holy One because you replace it with the cursed sword anyway)  10, with popping open the equip menu, changing class to Fighter, and setting Boost Hero formation frankly saves you so much time struggling just to start that chapter I'd say it's worth it.

As far as grinding goes, going to 10 isn't hard outside of the Temple of Time and the amount of raw frustration it saves with the early stages of Ragnarok is huge.  After that, if you can hold out 'till the Battle Coliseum chapter is done (roughly halfway through Ragnarok; it's not hard since you can get the Blood Axe finally), you can duck into the colosseum's basement first floor with the Bug Swatter and grind the enemies there really quickly to about 16, which is enough to complete the rest of the game comfortably.  The trick is just finding a decent place in the early game to grind to [i]get[/i] to that point because Long Bridge is a pain in the arse.

Surprise of the day though was realising you can entirely skip the final Yashu fight (the one where you have to fight his castle).  ...So I guess Destiny's only [i]four[/i] stages long.

EDIT: Got it down to [url=http://www.twitch.tv/garlylewilds/b/545080488]2:41:55.xx[/url] with Judgment's results screen popping up at 48 minutes(which surprised the hell out of me when I realised I was at that point); I should break 2:30 soon.

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2014-07-27 01:48:28 pm

Garlyle: 2014-07-19 08:04:06 pm

2014-07-19 08:03:22 pm

That Guy

I'm not fond of bumping up threads (especially when I'm the only person posting in them), but successfully breaking 2:30 is kind of a big deal, because I honestly thought it would take a LOT more work to do it

part 1 part 2 (My stream cut briefly in the middle of stage 65 and I didn't even notice). It's still hella sloppy - I'm at like 2 minutes behind early on due to some experimentation that goes horribly wrong and then, by sheer virtue of not completely mucking up several later stages, proceed to surprise the hell out of myself, blow up my record by about 8 minutes, and... yeah.

There's still a LOT of time to be saved in this game through individual stage routes and a variety of optimizations, and I should really start focusing on single stages (Big, Big, Big in particular is an arse). I don't even know if anyone's terribly interested in this game, but... welp, I am, and I'll keep the posts down to significant milestones from here on out (Next major goal to break will be about 2:20 I figure, maybe 2:15 - but with fewer and fewer huge-scale mistakes I'm not actually sure how far the time can be pushed)

EDIT: Minor discovery! While getting a 2:25:15 this morning, I also stumbled upon a little trick. At the start of Revolution, just after entering Yushia's name, it's possible to hit start and - instead of getting the "Skip Scene" - get the normal "equipment/formation/etc." screen. This is important because normally you can't actually equip Yushia until the first two stages of Revolution are already completed, so you can actually get a significant power boost. If this is possible at the start of Ragnarok it'd also save significant time on the first stage, but I wasn't able to get it (and unlike Yushia's you can't Quit Game back to before the name screen so it's not easy to retry). Would also be worthwhile at the start of Destiny to save time on the first stage since you pop the equip open after a single stage there and the extra power would make a difference.

Current "Game Clear" level is also down to 14 from 16. It could probably be dropped lower, but grinding to 14 is really damn quick anyway because of Battle Colliseum that I think it'd natively make up for the time difference of a Spirit Stone.

I'm not fond of bumping up threads (especially when I'm the only person posting in them), but successfully breaking 2:30 is kind of a big deal, because I honestly thought it would take a LOT more work to do it

[url=http://www.twitch.tv/garlylewilds/b/549217707]part 1[/url] [url=http://www.twitch.tv/garlylewilds/b/549253002]part 2[/url] (My stream cut briefly in the middle of stage 65 and I didn't even notice).  It's still hella sloppy - I'm at like 2 minutes behind early on due to some experimentation that goes horribly wrong and then, by sheer virtue of not completely mucking up several later stages, proceed to surprise the hell out of myself, blow up my record by about 8 minutes, and... yeah.

There's still a LOT of time to be saved in this game through individual stage routes and a variety of optimizations, and I should really start focusing on single stages (Big, Big, Big in particular is an [i]arse[/i]).  I don't even know if anyone's terribly interested in this game, but... welp, I am, and I'll keep the posts down to significant milestones from here on out (Next major goal to break will be about 2:20 I figure, maybe 2:15 - but with fewer and fewer huge-scale mistakes I'm not actually sure how far the time can be pushed)

EDIT: Minor discovery!  While getting a 2:25:15 this morning, I also stumbled upon a little trick. At the start of Revolution, just after entering Yushia's name, it's possible to hit start and - instead of getting the "Skip Scene" - get the normal "equipment/formation/etc." screen.  This is important because normally you can't actually equip Yushia until the first two stages of Revolution are already completed, so you can actually get a significant power boost.  If this is possible at the start of Ragnarok it'd also save significant time on the first stage, but I wasn't able to get it (and unlike Yushia's you can't Quit Game back to before the name screen so it's not easy to retry).  Would also be worthwhile at the start of Destiny to save time on the first stage since you pop the equip open after a single stage there and the extra power would make a difference.

Current "Game Clear" level is also down to 14 from 16.  It could probably be dropped lower, but grinding to 14 is really damn quick anyway because of Battle Colliseum that I think it'd natively make up for the time difference of a Spirit Stone.

Enkimy

2014-08-01 03:23:46 am

Hello !

So, there's some more people on this game !

Sorry, i wasn't reading since a while because... Well, i'm kinda busy.

I was trying to find the best way to do some leveling, and i have a suggestion on your amazing run: why don't you make the leveling in the "Mole" Global Dungeons? There's at least 4 beast and you can suicde on the monster right after, so it's endless easy leveling.

Anyway, followed, and after FF6 i might getting back on the game Smiley

And congratz for your 2h25 !

Garlyle

2014-08-01 08:57:19 am

That Guy

Quote from Enkimy:

I was trying to find the best way to do some leveling, and i have a suggestion on your amazing run: why don't you make the leveling in the "Mole" Global Dungeons? There's at least 4 beast and you can suicde on the monster right after, so it's endless easy leveling.

That... is a really good question, and the only answer I have is "I didn't realise it was there". It's not quite as absurdly well set up for grinding as the Battle Colisseum dungeon, but it'll certainly do the trick. (It's a shame that spot comes so late in the run >: )

And feel free to stop by any time if you catch me streaming; I try to stream a run every day unless I'm way too tired out from work. (I'm hoping to catch one of yours one of these days @_@)

Enkimy

2014-08-01 06:53:50 pm

Okay, another thing (i'm watching your runs part by part, so sorry if i'm not doing a full commentary in one time)

On Q57 "The Holy One", there's a way to kill the boss in one or two Time Goddess.
You need to get 350 Gold in 10 second.

Then you go on the Black Market on south, BETWEEN 20 AND 15 SECONDS LEFT and buy the Rightmost stone. It will be the Dark Invocation.

Use it on the boss and she'll die. So no more leveling Smiley

Garlyle

2014-08-01 07:54:49 pm

That Guy

Man, I completely forgot about that one (And here I thought my current solution was so damn smooth). I'm fairly certain that much gold in that timeframe is absolutely possible - my actual concern at the moment is what failing to get the Bone Helm and armor might do to stages following it. The armor only impacts two stages; the helm impacts about seven - and unfortunately some very tough stages are in that batch. However, the helm should be able to be obtained with only a minimum of time lost in the initial dashing around and farming, so I'll have to give it a shot next time!

This is why I definitely need a second person working on things! Though in general there's a lot of single-stage effort I need to put in.

Q03 (Stop the thieves) can be done without resetting the timer, for instance - you have to grab an herb going into the stage (if you time it right you can enter the herb-selling town before the cutscene triggers and buy the herb there and go straight onto the cutscene on leaving so no time is lost backtracking). Then you basically space out movements/dashes such that your first herb sustains you all the way to killing the cave's thieves and making it back to town with a minimum of HP, refreshing HP/buying a new herb there, killing one enemy on the way down to the thieves, and winning. I've yet to get it on camera successfully - the one run where I did unfortunately I kind of had my 'stream is on setup' still showing on stream by accident :/ Point is, nothing but practice is gonna make this consistently doable.

Big, Big, Big! is another painful one. Hella painful. I really just sort of improvise right now and that is absolutely not a good way to go about that stage.

For now I'm content just doing full game runs (since my record is steadily improving each time I do just from general practice) but I really need to sit down and work out some of these individual stage strategies.

Man, I completely forgot about that one (And here I thought my current solution was so damn smooth).  I'm fairly certain that much gold in that timeframe is absolutely possible - my actual concern at the moment is what failing to get the Bone Helm and armor might do to stages following it.  The armor only impacts two stages; the helm impacts about seven - and unfortunately some very tough stages are in that batch.  However, the helm should be able to be obtained with only a minimum of time lost in the initial dashing around and farming, so I'll have to give it a shot next time!

This is why I definitely need a second person working on things!  Though in general there's a lot of single-stage effort I need to put in.

Q03 (Stop the thieves) can be done without resetting the timer, for instance - you have to grab an herb going into the stage (if you time it right you can enter the herb-selling town before the cutscene triggers and buy the herb there and go straight onto the cutscene on leaving so no time is lost backtracking).  Then you basically space out movements/dashes such that your first herb sustains you all the way to killing the cave's thieves and making it back to town with a minimum of HP, refreshing HP/buying a new herb there, killing one enemy on the way down to the thieves, and winning.  I've yet to get it on camera successfully - the one run where I did unfortunately I kind of had my 'stream is on setup' still showing on stream by accident :/  Point is, nothing but practice is gonna make this consistently doable.

Big, Big, Big! is another painful one.  Hella painful.  I really just sort of improvise right now and that is absolutely not a good way to go about that stage.

For now I'm content just doing full game runs (since my record is steadily improving each time I do just from general practice) but I really need to sit down and work out some of these individual stage strategies.

Enkimy

Edit history:

Enkimy: 2014-08-02 09:35:32 am

2014-08-02 06:40:25 am

Yes 350 gold is possible. If i remeber correctly, it's 250 + 100 gold for Time goddess because the animation of Stone is so damn long (but still better than leveling)

And indeed, i didn't find any viable strategy for Big Big Big :/
It's just running around going through forest and killing things... At the time i don't feel like doing a perfect route and killing order, maybe when you will be at 2 hours !

I will try to step by when you're streaming, it would be a pleasure to watch a full run live and see what can be done to optimize the routing !

Edit: Ok, another leveling optimization (maybe !)
I've seen you're doing some leveling just before Q16. I've seen you have trouble to kill the ratz in Jailbreak too.

So i've searched a bit, and there's a perfect place to do some leveling before: the Infinite Maze global dungeons.
You can encounter 5 bugs (vulnerable to Bug Swatter you just got) by taking the first ennemy on the right, then rushing north to the chest (100 gold). Each monster give 2~4 XP, the same amount that your current spot (Right before Q16, the single beast). You can leave the dungeons by Giving Up Smiley

Getting level 4 should make the Jailbreak quest easier.

(That's funny, i had hard time here too, but i didn't searched befoire looking at your run)

Yes 350 gold is possible. If i remeber correctly, it's 250 + 100 gold for Time goddess because the animation of Stone is so damn long (but still better than leveling)

And indeed, i didn't find any viable strategy for Big Big Big :/
It's just running around going through forest and killing things... At the time i don't feel like doing a perfect route and killing order, maybe when you will be at 2 hours !

I will try to step by when you're streaming, it would be a pleasure to watch a full run live and see what can be done to optimize the routing !

Edit: Ok, another leveling optimization (maybe !)
I've seen you're doing some leveling just before Q16. I've seen you have trouble to kill the ratz in Jailbreak too.

So i've searched a bit, and there's a perfect place to do some leveling before: the Infinite Maze global dungeons. 
You can encounter 5 bugs (vulnerable to Bug Swatter you just got) by taking the first ennemy on the right, then rushing north to the chest (100 gold). Each monster give 2~4 XP, the same amount that your current spot (Right before Q16, the single beast). You can leave the dungeons by Giving Up :)

Getting level 4 should make the Jailbreak quest easier.

(That's funny, i had hard time here too, but i didn't searched befoire looking at your run)

Enkimy

2014-08-04 04:07:48 pm

Aaaand maybe a little new optimization.

On Q39. with the Swamp Engine. There's a small quest in the south-east village, asking you to get back the Death Trap (A banana).
After some testing, having the banana cut the HP of the boss in half. Something like 15 hits from my full castle in place of 40.

Maybe it's a very very small optimization, like 5 second, but that's all i found for now Cheesy

sonikku2008

2014-09-27 06:06:03 am

Been lurking around here off and on to see what strats you all have come up with. I found something interesting myself trying to climb the TA leaderboards and get my name up in the top 10, though its usefulness in an actual speedrun (due to low level and limited equipment access) may not be very high. If you don't need a proper helmet or anything for a level, and you have access to it, try using the Charisma Wig in place of your standard fare. Doesn't have much in the way of stats, but there's a hidden speed modifier in that piece of equipment which allows you to run faster than going without it. I found that out by accident at one point during a TA attempt in a later level and went back to the first level, and as it turns out, it's responsible for the 1.93 that shows up on the top of that level's leaderboard on Normal difficulty. Maybe it'll make a difference in the full game speedrun, maybe not. May not be worth going for if it won't save more time than you'd spend getting it or if you really need the defense more than the speed, plus Yushia can't use it, so you won't have it through Revolution.

Garlyle

2014-11-07 12:43:34 am

That Guy

I really need to bookmark this thread so I don't miss posts for like two months straight.

I haven't been playing this game much for the past three months so I've left this behind for the moment: It's an (admittedly low quality recording sorry) 2:11:16. This is one of those games though where there's so much that can happen in a run that you'll see that my splits are still all over the place, and I really want to invite other people to take a shot at this game. One of these days I'll do proper summation of strategies and things that have been discovered and stuff.

That said I'm going to have to take a look at Charisma Wig. I wasn't aware of the speed modifier on it. Its value, like you guessed, is definitely a real question, since that could be quite a painful loss of stats in some sections (Ragnarok is mostly a struggle, especially during the first half; and unfortunately where it would benefit most - Yushia, since stats are irrelevant for her in 80% of her stages... welp). But it'd be worth the look, depending on where in the game it's located.

One of these days I swear I will return to this game.

I really need to bookmark this thread so I don't miss posts for like two months straight.

I haven't been playing this game much for the past three months so I've left [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4jMHmkw_jc]this[/url] behind for the moment: It's an (admittedly low quality recording sorry) 2:11:16.  This is one of those games though where there's so much that can happen in a run that you'll see that my splits are still all over the place, and I really want to invite other people to take a shot at this game.  One of these days I'll do proper summation of strategies and things that have been discovered and stuff.

That said I'm going to have to take a look at Charisma Wig.  I wasn't aware of the speed modifier on it.  Its value, like you guessed, is definitely a real question, since that could be quite a painful loss of stats in some sections (Ragnarok is mostly a struggle, especially during the first half; and unfortunately where it would benefit most - Yushia, since stats are irrelevant for her in 80% of her stages... welp).  But it'd be worth the look, depending on where in the game it's located.

One of these days I swear I will return to this game.

Dowolf

2014-11-25 10:56:56 am

So I was routing this game on the PSP version way back in the day, though I never recorded a run of it, and I've been meaning to do a run of it. Now I finally have, and got a 1:57:06, and that can still come down by a lot. (I'll edit this post with the link once it's done processing [my computer's slow~].)

Some notes:
--I play in Japanese, but that isn't faster AFAIK; I'm just more used to the Japanese text, and I have a rational hatred of the English translation.
--When you level up, your entire party gets three points of attack and defense, but only one point of speed. This means that speed from equipment is generally more important (yes, you don't get any more bonuses from speed once (speed - weight) >= 20, but when your speed at level start is less than your weight on most levels, you want to be getting into the higher speed brackets ASAP). On that note, I recommend going swordsman as your class as Yuusha, rather than... Warrior? Whatever they called the axe class. Five speed trumps five armor any day (and being able to use weapon skills increases your damage 20% or more). Similarly, stay as Spearman for Yuuja (except while grinding the blood axe, obv.) and Gunner for Yuushia.
--And also on that note, because a single level up gets you 15 bonus attack with a full party, overleveling can be a good thing--unlike in the previous game, where you generally wanted to be only just strong enough to kill the boss, being a couple levels over can make them die stupidly fast. I'm also a higher level than you going into most every stage.
--I'm not sure where the best spots to level up are in the first two arcs--I use the rats after Q2, the cannonballs near Q10, and the snowmen near Q23, all of which I feel are faster than doing the Infinite Maze (you use so much time running between them, and you don't get as much XP). But I am reasonably certain leveling all the way to 9 before the start of Revolution is worth it. Though it could do with some more testing.
--The pause glitch you noted is actually part of a glitch that affects the whole series where you have a frame of action before a cutscene or scene transition (i.e. battle) starts. You've probably noticed, for instance, that you can move one square before a post-results-screen cutscene starts. However, I don't know of any other applications for it in this game (you can use it to save a bit of time on the penultimate stage in the first game by buffering pressing X on the gravestone at the end while a battle is "on the stack," as it were). Interestingly, you can (at least in the PSP version, haven't tried on PC) use this to save the game on top of the start-of-level trigger, but when you load the save the level instantly starts. I've long had a hunch/a prayer that you can use this to skip a level, but I've never actually done it.
--Q1, it's faster not to buy the herb, since the cutscene's so long
--Q2, buying the herb before the level saves a second of running across the huge town.
--Q5, I always pick up the armor on my way out.
--Q6, buy the shoes >_>
--Q7, I think it's faster to get the bug swatter and then start grinding, but I might be wrong.
--Q8, you can save time by just not recruiting Knight >_>
--Q14, the mayor can kill Yashu for you if you hit level 10 first.
--Q15, buying the sword helps a lot, mostly for the next level >_>
--Q17, I'm not sure if it's better to go Beast Swatter or a real weapon, but I'm pretty sure upgrading the castle here saves time.
--Q29, going in with a real weapon and level 9 helps a lot. Also, do this stage before Q28 so you don't have to reequip stuff (there's no need to do so after 28, since you can just pick up the stuff underwater instead).
--Q32, this stage is way easier if you carry an herb into it. I'm not sure if I prefer beast swatter or a real weapon on it.
--Q40: After beating this stage, you can position the hero castle above one of the worm spawns and abuse it for lots of XP. I level to 14 here; the only leveling from there is making sure I get enough XP to hit 16 by the start of Destiny. Also, make sure to fix your party!
--Q44, use a real weapon and beat up on the sea urchins for lots of xp.
--Q47, you can skip the bird-hopping animation by pressing start. Actually, you can skip lots of animations. Like the healing animation, and the cannon animation on the bike-racing level, and the teleporting animation, and (...) But I think these aren't counted against in-game time? My in-game time is a lot closer to real-time than yours, and I'm just guessing as to why.
--Q48... just be 14 >_> This goes for a lot of levels here.
--Q52, bug swatter on the scorpions is fun~
--Q53, if you go bug swatter, you can kill enough to get 350 within 5 seconds and then buy the third stone from the right.
--Q59, mammoths are weak to beast swatter <_<
--Q60: After this quest, I go back and pick up the stone of flowing time that opens up. Having a full party (and the third formation) helps a lot.
--Q62, you only have to buy the third vase.
--Q65, I always go heaven, because Angel Oran heals you and you'll be using him for the rest of the game.
--Q68, I recommend not getting the Gold Rush because it's so heavy. But do pick up the weapon on Q69. (<- I made this note before leveling to 16. I don't know if it's necessary anymore.)
--Q71, the duel grieves are only have +2 defense over the boots you can buy during To a Distant Future. I'm pretty sure they're not worth the ~10 seconds it takes to get them. Also omg set your party after this stage--I sub in Oran, but at any rate, you do not want people who die over the course of 72!
--Q74, I take a very different route. I recommend it.
--Q75, if you're 16, you don't need the summoning stone, which is sweet~

Charisma Hair isn't purchasable until after Q71, takes almost 10s to get, and just causes you to crash and burn at the start of all the Destiny stages. It's not worth it (which is a shame, because you definitely have enough money for it).

So I was routing this game on the PSP version way back in the day, though I never recorded a run of it, and I've been meaning to do a run of it. Now I finally have, and got a 1:57:06, and that can still come down by a lot. (I'll edit this post with the link once it's done processing [my computer's slow~].)

Some notes:
--I play in Japanese, but that isn't faster AFAIK; I'm just more used to the Japanese text, and I have a rational hatred of the English translation.
--When you level up, your entire party gets three points of attack and defense, but only one point of speed. This means that speed from equipment is generally more important (yes, you don't get any more bonuses from speed once (speed - weight) >= 20, but when your speed at level start is less than your weight on most levels, you want to be getting into the higher speed brackets ASAP). On that note, I recommend going swordsman as your class as Yuusha, rather than... Warrior? Whatever they called the axe class. Five speed trumps five armor any day (and being able to use weapon skills increases your damage 20% or more). Similarly, stay as Spearman for Yuuja (except while grinding the blood axe, obv.) and Gunner for Yuushia.
--And also on that note, because a single level up gets you 15 bonus attack with a full party, overleveling can be a good thing--unlike in the previous game, where you generally wanted to be only just strong enough to kill the boss, being a couple levels over can make them die stupidly fast. I'm also a higher level than you going into most every stage.
--I'm not sure where the best spots to level up are in the first two arcs--I use the rats after Q2, the cannonballs near Q10, and the snowmen near Q23, all of which I feel are faster than doing the Infinite Maze (you use so much time running between them, and you don't get as much XP). But I am reasonably certain leveling all the way to 9 before the start of Revolution is worth it. Though it could do with some more testing.
--The pause glitch you noted is actually part of a glitch that affects the whole series where you have a frame of action before a cutscene or scene transition (i.e. battle) starts. You've probably noticed, for instance, that you can move one square before a post-results-screen cutscene starts. However, I don't know of any other applications for it in this game (you can use it to save a bit of time on the penultimate stage in the first game by buffering pressing X on the gravestone at the end while a battle is "on the stack," as it were). Interestingly, you can (at least in the PSP version, haven't tried on PC) use this to save the game on top of the start-of-level trigger, but when you load the save the level instantly starts. I've long had a hunch/a prayer that you can use this to skip a level, but I've never actually done it.
--Q1, it's faster not to buy the herb, since the cutscene's so long
--Q2, buying the herb before the level saves a second of running across the huge town.
--Q5, I always pick up the armor on my way out.
--Q6, buy the shoes >_>
--Q7, I think it's faster to get the bug swatter and then start grinding, but I might be wrong.
--Q8, you can save time by just not recruiting Knight >_>
--Q14, the mayor can kill Yashu for you if you hit level 10 first.
--Q15, buying the sword helps a lot, mostly for the next level >_>
--Q17, I'm not sure if it's better to go Beast Swatter or a real weapon, but I'm pretty sure upgrading the castle here saves time.
--Q29, going in with a real weapon and level 9 helps a lot. Also, do this stage before Q28 so you don't have to reequip stuff (there's no need to do so after 28, since you can just pick up the stuff underwater instead).
--Q32, this stage is way easier if you carry an herb into it. I'm not sure if I prefer beast swatter or a real weapon on it.
--Q40: After beating this stage, you can position the hero castle above one of the worm spawns and abuse it for lots of XP. I level to 14 here; the only leveling from there is making sure I get enough XP to hit 16 by the start of Destiny. Also, make sure to fix your party!
--Q44, use a real weapon and beat up on the sea urchins for lots of xp.
--Q47, you can skip the bird-hopping animation by pressing start. Actually, you can skip lots of animations. Like the healing animation, and the cannon animation on the bike-racing level, and the teleporting animation, and (...) But I think these aren't counted against in-game time? My in-game time is a lot closer to real-time than yours, and I'm just guessing as to why.
--Q48... just be 14 >_> This goes for a lot of levels here.
--Q52, bug swatter on the scorpions is fun~
--Q53, if you go bug swatter, you can kill enough to get 350 within 5 seconds and then buy the third stone from the right.
--Q59, mammoths are weak to beast swatter <_<
--Q60: After this quest, I go back and pick up the stone of flowing time that opens up. Having a full party (and the third formation) helps a lot.
--Q62, you only have to buy the third vase.
--Q65, I always go heaven, because Angel Oran heals you and you'll be using him for the rest of the game.
--Q68, I recommend not getting the Gold Rush because it's so heavy. But do pick up the weapon on Q69. (<- I made this note before leveling to 16. I don't know if it's necessary anymore.)
--Q71, the duel grieves are only have +2 defense over the boots you can buy during To a Distant Future. I'm pretty sure they're not worth the ~10 seconds it takes to get them. Also omg set your party after this stage--I sub in Oran, but at any rate, you do not want people who die over the course of 72!
--Q74, I take a very different route. I recommend it.
--Q75, if you're 16, you don't need the summoning stone, which is sweet~

Charisma Hair isn't purchasable until after Q71, takes almost 10s to get, and just causes you to crash and burn at the start of all the Destiny stages. It's not worth it (which is a shame, because you definitely have enough money for it).

Dowolf

Edit history:

Dowolf: 2015-01-11 10:30:08 am

Dowolf: 2015-01-09 03:01:02 pm

Dowolf: 2015-01-09 03:00:54 pm

Dowolf: 2015-01-09 02:57:51 pm

Dowolf: 2014-11-27 06:39:03 pm

Dowolf: 2014-11-26 06:09:25 am

2014-11-26 06:09:14 am

A quick chart of all the potential weapon skills. First number is damage ratio, second is cast rate:

Fullblade: 1.0, 1/10, ALL (Executioner's)
Big Shot: .8. 1/8, ALL (Common on gunswords)
Drain Axe: 1.5, 1/15, SINGLE, heals 100hp (Blood Axe)
Hero Slash: 2.0, 1/10, SINGLE (Early swords, inc. whichever one you get during Q5)
Vital Stab: 1.5, 1/10, SINGLE, can crit??? (Common on spears)
Lightning Stab: 1.5, 1/10, lightning element (The... Lightning Spear?)
Early Summer Rain Stab: 2.0, 1/15, ALL (but given by dragon lance...)
Peerless Axe: 2.0, 1/17, ALL (Evil Breaker)
Angel's Arrow: 2.5, 1/15, SINGLE, holy (Kushi [the dragon head weapon, not sure how it's supposed to be spelled]--this is the best single-target skill available (and it's on the best weapon in Revolution), so go west on 45? -- EDIT: I'm bad at math. Though it is still the best single-target still in Revolution. But, more interestingly, are any bosses weak to holy? Hmm...

Also, I'm starting to think going axes might be better in Ragnarok after all--I completely underestimated just how many axes there are, and if you're tanking speed anyways you can do dumb stuff like get Gold Rush and the Iron Sandals...

A quick chart of all the potential weapon skills. First number is damage ratio, second is cast rate:

Fullblade: 1.0, 1/10, ALL (Executioner's)
Big Shot: .8. 1/8, ALL (Common on gunswords)
Drain Axe: 1.5, 1/15, SINGLE, heals 100hp (Blood Axe)
Hero Slash: 2.0, 1/10, SINGLE (Early swords, inc. whichever one you get during Q5)
Vital Stab: 1.5, 1/10, SINGLE, can crit??? (Common on spears)
Lightning Stab: 1.5, 1/10, lightning element (The... Lightning Spear?)
Early Summer Rain Stab: 2.0, 1/15, ALL (but given by dragon lance...)
Peerless Axe: 2.0, 1/17, ALL (Evil Breaker)
Angel's Arrow: 2.5, 1/15, SINGLE, holy (Kushi [the dragon head weapon, not sure how it's supposed to be spelled]--this is the best single-target skill available (and it's on the best weapon in Revolution), so go west on 45? -- EDIT: I'm bad at math. Though it is still the best single-target still in Revolution. But, more interestingly, are any bosses weak to holy? Hmm...

Also, I'm starting to think going axes might be better in Ragnarok after all--I completely underestimated just how many axes there are, and if you're tanking speed anyways you can do dumb stuff like get Gold Rush and the Iron Sandals...

Dowolf

Edit history:

Dowolf: 2014-11-27 09:22:05 am

Dowolf: 2014-11-27 08:59:40 am

Dowolf: 2014-11-26 08:43:10 pm

2014-11-26 09:15:57 am

Tried out the fighter route, along with some XP route changes (by which I mean, I grind to 13 against the snowmen and don't grind at all in Revolution). XP went well, fighter had mixed results; final time was 1:55:33. I think sticking with fighter until.... Battle Coliseum (?) is the best plan. Not sure on Gold Rush.

update: did just that. got a 1:53:31. Sub 1:50 definitely possible; there were a lot of dumb mistakes. Went level 11 this time at the snowmen, which might be the sweet spot. And I've completely soured on the Gold Rush.

also, just noticed the drill lance, despite piercing the heavens, gives two attack, three skill, and no abilities. It's a damn downgrade. I can just stick with the Evil Breaker and fighter class instead... all the way through Jewelful?

Update: did just that. Got an absolutely awful 1:53:27 (I equipped the wrong hat for the entirety of Destiny, costing me two minutes...)

Garlyle

Edit history:

Garlyle: 2014-12-01 09:30:41 am

2014-12-01 09:28:15 am

That Guy

Oh snap good thing I took a look at this, was not expecting someone to have picked this game up! I'll have to go over things stage by stage at some point. Even what I was doing had a crapload of room to clean things up @_@

Do you have video, by chance? I'm curious to see how you do a lot of things (eg doing Angel Oran and still having the EXP to actually beat Death at the end, what route you're using for the God Circle [I'm sure there has to be faster methods]), etc.

EDIT: Also, is that in-game time or real time?

Dowolf

Edit history:

Dowolf: 2014-12-02 07:56:08 am

Dowolf: 2014-12-01 02:47:52 pm

2014-12-01 02:44:50 pm

real time. I keep not posting videos because I keep beating them so fast / I am incredibly unhappy with that 1:53:27. Had a -3 minute run this morning that died at Ragnorok because I forgot to buy an herb >_< Hopefully I'll get one I'm not ashamed to share soon >_>

With Angel Oran, I just grind the mobs on the first floor for a bit. The two extra party members that I pick up help a ton. As for God Circle, basically go due north (across the collapsing bridge), do a quarter circle to 3 o'clock (hitting two on the way), hit the one due west of the starting area, then go straight to the boss.

EDIT: there we go. 1:47:34. Still plenty of mistakes, though.

Dowolf

2015-05-29 11:45:08 am

Came back to this, updated strats, and got a 1:39:21 IGT (1:39:40 RT).

The run is garbage (about a half-dozen deaths and two restarts due to wrong equipment), but hey new strats OP.

(New strats are basically leveling to 17 after Wind Tower and using Wing Sword throughout most of Ragnarok.)

Garlyle

2015-05-29 12:52:15 pm

That Guy

Just as I'm thinking I should get back into learning this game you post another WR

Might have to start seriously setting aside time for this again~

Dowolf

Edit history:

Dowolf: 2016-02-02 10:12:36 am

2016-02-02 10:12:03 am

Got back into the swing of things for RPG Limit Break, and set a new record by a cool four minutes:

I'm leveling to 20 now. Turns out 20 puts me one level short of where I want to be for a few key levels (Under the sea and the Mole Radar ones), so I might bump that up to 21.

Dowolf

2016-04-12 10:26:46 pm

I found a cool little glitch!

It turns out on any map that you have the "mini" menu on (the one that contains only continue/options/mode select), if you have autosave turned off, you can warp to a predetermined location (i.e. it'll always be the same for any given map) by going to the last "Save or go to mode select" option and then backing back out. This has a couple of weird side effects:
1) Your level, gold, and party are set to whatever they were before the level started
2) If you try to reset time, the game tries to restart the level where you're standing, which looks cool and starts causing your input to go bonkers, so. You know. Pluses and minuses.

Also, in the vast majority of levels, you either wind up being teleported to the starting location for the level, or you get plopped into the middle of the ocean. Map 71 is the only exception (unless I missed one while I was testing, in which case "whoops"), where it sends you exactly one tile north of a town halfway through the level.

From there, I recruit Yuushia, then do the tower collapse cutscene, since this adds Yuuja to my party for some reason or another I dunno I just work here. Then I have to fight one of the midboss angel thingies that spawns at 14.99, since this causes resetting time to not do the aforementioned glitch because SCIENCE. Then I complete the stage as normal.

This saves about 15 seconds. It does require me to be level 30 or close to it, but I had already started going through the game at level 30 anyways, so everything works our nice and peachy.

I found a cool little glitch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqneoK9gjF4&

It turns out on any map that you have the "mini" menu on (the one that contains only continue/options/mode select), if you have autosave turned off, you can warp to a predetermined location (i.e. it'll always be the same for any given map) by going to the last "Save or go to mode select" option and then backing back out. This has a couple of weird side effects:
1) Your level, gold, and party are set to whatever they were before the level started
2) If you try to reset time, the game tries to restart the level where you're standing, which looks cool and starts causing your input to go bonkers, so. You know. Pluses and minuses.

Also, in the vast majority of levels, you either wind up being teleported to the starting location for the level, or you get plopped into the middle of the ocean. Map 71 is the only exception (unless I missed one while I was testing, in which case "whoops"), where it sends you exactly one tile north of a town halfway through the level.

From there, I recruit Yuushia, then do the tower collapse cutscene, since this adds Yuuja to my party for some reason or another I dunno I just work here. Then I have to fight one of the midboss angel thingies that spawns at 14.99, since this causes resetting time to not do the aforementioned glitch because SCIENCE. Then I complete the stage as normal.

This saves about 15 seconds. It does require me to be level 30 or close to it, but I had already started going through the game at level 30 anyways, so everything works our nice and peachy.