Guacamelee

NiL8r

Edit history:

NiL8r: 2014-05-16 04:47:27 am

2014-05-16 04:46:50 am

Oh god... I have so much freaking work to do now guys. Tongue

Can this be used to skip Jaguar? Also, incoming Low%

Protongue

2014-05-16 10:08:13 am

Swap hopping is nuts! This trick has potential to be as big as wall hopping, great discovery.

Another strat opens up for 100%/Good Ending! Swap hopping into the Sierra Morena mask room (pre-Goat fly) is very doable, and it allows you to skip over the Chupacabra arena since you'll exit from the Mask Room on the other side of it.

Good Ending is really getting shaken up just in time for SGDQ, Anil8r! That category is becoming very interesting, as practically all of the mask rooms are susceptible to new discoveries. I would be happy to investigate Good Ending with you, if you are interested.

Weskurrr

Edit history:

Weskurrr: 2014-05-16 10:26:02 am

2014-05-16 10:22:45 am

Quote from NiL8r:

Oh god... I have so much freaking work to do now guys. Tongue

Can this be used to skip Jaguar? Also, incoming Low%

You could, in theory, swap hop right over the trigger for Jaguar's arena. I've tested swap hopping over him, and in practice, I'm losing just enough height to fall into trigger range after starting with a double jump from the hill with the save point. If one were able to gain enough height (as Eel did in his 420 Swap Hop Blaze It video), then you could swap hop right over his arena.

NiL8r

2014-05-16 12:07:57 pm

I'm having a lot of problems gaining height with this. I can't swap forms fast enough. I can chain the hops together sometimes but even then I'm not gaining any height from them

Bagel_Thief

2014-05-16 12:16:32 pm

Hey guys! Like Anil8er I can't do chains consistently with the new Swaphop Infinite trick (yet) but I thought I'd try to skip Jaguar by gaining chicken fly unusually early and flying over the arena. Unfortunately you can't skip it as the trigger point goes as high as the screen does. Unless it registers you differently while doing swaphop (which I doubt) there is no way to skip it. Sad

NiL8r

2014-05-16 12:27:26 pm

I'm wondering if the PS3 controller is causing me issues. With needing to depress the trigger so much to roll, I'm wondering if that's making it more difficult to do this.

Protongue, I got that USB adapter for the Wii Classic controller, but I can't figure out how to configure it. You mind linking me somewhere or talking me through it?

Protongue

Edit history:

Protongue: 2014-05-16 01:35:47 pm

2014-05-16 01:05:42 pm

Sure thing Anil8r. I figured out how to get the Wii Classic Controller USB Adapter to work here:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/214770/discussions/0/846960628421768545/?l=english
Ctrl+F for "My controller still doesn't work. Any ideas?" and follow steps 1 and 3.

If it's still not working after that, drop me a PM and we can discuss online whenever you're free this evening (any time after 6:00 PM EDT works for me).

As far as executing the infinite swap hop trick, I will post a quick video demonstrating the technique I'm using, to see if that helps you guys.

EDIT: Here's a video of my technique. Hope it helps, but if not, Eel and Weskurrr probably have additional advice!

Bagel_Thief

2014-05-16 01:07:33 pm

Always with the help PT. You'll be doing our runs for us next :3

NiL8r

2014-05-16 01:38:58 pm

Well, I got the controller working and BLECH. I'm thinking of heading to the store this weekend and getting either a Wii Classic Pro or a PS4 controller.

Weskurrr

Edit history:

Weskurrr: 2014-05-16 02:09:19 pm

Weskurrr: 2014-05-16 02:04:54 pm

Weskurrr: 2014-05-16 01:58:04 pm

Weskurrr: 2014-05-16 01:51:53 pm

2014-05-16 01:45:37 pm

Holy crap, this actually makes Swap Hop climbing COMPLETELY viable! Look at all of that momentum and height!

EDIT: I was screwing around and did some vertical climbing with this. It's not quite fast enough to replace wallhops (think bomb jump from Super Metroid and you get an idea of how fast you're moving up), but I've found that it can handily get you to the mask piece portal in Caverna del Pollo if done right; I doubt this will replace the current SDG method, because gaining vertical height while swap hopping at a standstill seems more difficult than if you're moving in a direction. This thing is going to be all over 100%, I imagine.

ALL PRAISES TO FRIEDEEL AND PROTONGUE

NiL8r

2014-05-16 02:14:28 pm

This clinches it. The PS3's rear triggers are just not suitable for this type of series of inputs. Awesome controller grip though Protongue, that is really helpful Smiley

Weskurrr

Edit history:

Weskurrr: 2014-05-16 02:27:56 pm

Weskurrr: 2014-05-16 02:26:32 pm

2014-05-16 02:26:01 pm

Here's the Caverna del Pollo swap hop skip, done with my DualShock (I hate those triggers I need a GameCube pad or something Jesus):

Imlas

2014-05-16 02:55:54 pm

I'm having issues with the rear trigger on the 360 pad as well. I can get it to work for short bursts, but I don't know if I could consistently get the Tule tree arena skip that Eel was showing. (Maybe time to try out running with an arcade stick?)

Oh, and seriously: awesome find Weskurrr/Eel

NiL8r

2014-05-16 04:31:26 pm

This is like learning Wall Hops all over again. I'll have the rhythm down for a minute, and then I can't get it at all for 5 minutes. Welp, back to practicing one tech for hours every day Tongue

FriedEel

2014-05-16 05:08:25 pm

Wow there's been some activity here lately Tongue

So I was up into the wee hours of the morning, lol

Things I've been able to skip so far:
Tule tree arena 1 (4 chupas, 2 spikes)
Tule tree arena 2 (colored bombs, 2 yellows)
Goat dialogue after Jaguar Javier fight

Jaguar Javier is unfortunately not skippable, I'm chilin' up in the cloud and still fall down to begin the battle.

FriedEel

2014-05-16 05:32:14 pm

Also i got excited when ani mentioned the low % category cause I'd be all about something like that. One thing I'm stuck on: if you don't get goat fly, can anyone think of a way to get past that little section after the long path of dillos in great temple? It's the warp puzzle directly before the staggered wall climbs. I'm worried this might be the thing that blocks it Sad

NiL8r

Edit history:

NiL8r: 2014-05-16 06:03:13 pm

2014-05-16 06:00:56 pm

Ohh, yeah. There is a blue block at the end of that room, huh? Double Jump should still be skippable though.

Also, this trick really trivializes the Sierra Morena Mask Piece. Every room is just "get to decent height to start swap-hopping, then win"

The only Mask Piece left that we need to figure out how to skip/make really easy is the Treetops Tongue

Imlas

Edit history:

Imlas: 2014-05-16 06:09:20 pm

2014-05-16 06:09:01 pm

I just mentioned it to Eel - you can totally swaphop your way around the first two arenas in sierra by going up the outside. That should shave some time off and get rid of two annoying/rng-ish spots.

Imlas

2014-05-17 12:29:25 am

In between bouts of murdering my hands getting down the rhythm of swaphopping I finished up splicing together copies of the in game map.
Here they are as an imgur gallery of .gifs: http://imgur.com/a/lPjAs#0

FriedEel

2014-05-17 05:28:23 pm

Ahh, these look amazing Imlas!

Thank you for all the hard work (especially from me as this takes a load of pressure off!)

NiL8r

Edit history:

NiL8r: 2014-05-17 07:09:15 pm

2014-05-17 06:22:57 pm

Welp, 420 Frog Slam is obsolete. Pretty sure it's faster and easier to just Swap Hop up the left side of the screen rather than go through that screen the normal way.

Edit: Err... nevermind that. I completely forgot the new route just skips that room entirely Tongue

Bagel_Thief

2014-05-17 10:53:11 pm

Hey guys! Just posted a sierra orb vid which is as fast as I think it can be done without swaphopping. for anyone who is trying to make it faster with swaphopping (Anil8er), this is the time to beat. If it ain't faster, it ain't worth it. I would try myself but I suck at swaphopping to fly. Sad

Bagel_Thief

Edit history:

Bagel_Thief: 2014-05-17 11:17:25 pm

Bagel_Thief: 2014-05-17 11:14:53 pm

Bagel_Thief: 2014-05-17 11:05:09 pm

2014-05-17 11:02:20 pm

Oh and swaphopping does change the 100% route slightly, I saw Anil8er did it in a good ending run and it works for the 100% route too. If you swaphop to the sierra orb room you can cut out the chupa arena and having to go back to the sierra for a second time. I shall spend that saved time trying to swaphop to the orb room in the first place :/

Wouldn't of thought of it at all so thanks Anil8er! Cheesy

So coming back from 100%ing the desert, you spawn into luchita at the forest entrance.
1) get musician and cheese
2) set up SDG at Pollo Cavern and Olmec warp to Luchita.
3) do top row of quests (Izabellas, Error house, Combo Chicken, bar and set up chicken thief)
4) go to sierra and get orb as described above whilst on your way.
5) Olmec warp to Luchita and complete Temple of Rain if not already done so.
6) do chicken thief... sigh.
7) complete Forest and Treetops as normal and in the treetops orb room SDG warp straight to pollo cavern orb room.

Protongue

Edit history:

Protongue: 2014-05-18 02:02:35 am

Protongue: 2014-05-18 02:01:27 am

Protongue: 2014-05-18 01:37:49 am

Protongue: 2014-05-18 01:37:35 am

Protongue: 2014-05-18 01:37:26 am

Protongue: 2014-05-18 01:15:09 am

Protongue: 2014-05-18 01:13:27 am

2014-05-18 01:11:59 am

Anil8r, your tech testing in Good Ending has inspired me to pick up the category. Here is my experimental Good Ending route, changes relative to Any% (assume you're following the Any% route unless otherwise noted):

* When passing through Forest del Chivo for the first time, set it as your SDG region at Goat's house before picking up Rooster Uppercut. After acquiring Rooster Uppercut, Start + Quit.
* After acquiring Pollo Power and Start + Quit, the game loads in Forest del Chivo outside of Tule Tree. Travel to Pueblucho for the X'tabay fight, but hit the Forest's Olmec Head on the way.
* After beating X'tabay, acquire the Agave Field mask. Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Mask Room door in Forest del Chivo. Acquire this mask and Start + Quit to exit the room quickly. Go to Tule Tree here per usual.
* In Sierra Morena, swap hop to the Mask Room and complete it. Continue through Sierra Morena.
* After beating Jaguar Javier, use the Olmec Head to travel to Santa Luchita. Go to Caverna del Pollo and use swap hop to acquire the mask. Take the cavern exit back to Santa Luchita and Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Tule Tree outside of Treetops. Acquire the Treetops mask piece and Start + Quit.
* Game loads in Tule Tree's No Power Room. Make your way to the Olmec Head and travel to Sierra Morena. Go on to the Great Temple and beat the game.

This also means doing Treetops without Goat Climb. It's possible with swap hops and wall hops, but it's going to take practice!

There is a stamina chunk and a couple treasure chests on this route. So it's possible to have 4 stamina bars by the time you enter Sierra Morena. Just like the good old Any% days Tongue

EDIT: I made a mistake about a particular warp. If anyone saw a previous version of the route, note the change in order of Caverna del Pollo and Sierra Morena mask pieces.

Anil8r, your tech testing in Good Ending has inspired me to pick up the category. Here is my experimental Good Ending route, changes relative to Any% (assume you're following the Any% route unless otherwise noted):

* When passing through Forest del Chivo for the first time, set it as your SDG region at Goat's house before picking up Rooster Uppercut. After acquiring Rooster Uppercut, Start + Quit.
* After acquiring Pollo Power and Start + Quit, the game loads in Forest del Chivo outside of Tule Tree. Travel to Pueblucho for the X'tabay fight, but hit the Forest's Olmec Head on the way.
* After beating X'tabay, acquire the Agave Field mask. Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Mask Room door in Forest del Chivo. Acquire this mask and Start + Quit to exit the room quickly. Go to Tule Tree here per usual.
* In Sierra Morena, swap hop to the Mask Room and complete it. Continue through Sierra Morena.
* After beating Jaguar Javier, use the Olmec Head to travel to Santa Luchita. Go to Caverna del Pollo and use swap hop to acquire the mask. Take the cavern exit back to Santa Luchita and Start + Quit.
* Game loads at Tule Tree outside of Treetops. Acquire the Treetops mask piece and Start + Quit.
* Game loads in Tule Tree's No Power Room. Make your way to the Olmec Head and travel to Sierra Morena. Go on to the Great Temple and beat the game.

This also means doing Treetops without Goat Climb. It's possible with swap hops and wall hops, but it's going to take practice!

There is a stamina chunk and a couple treasure chests on this route. So it's possible to have 4 stamina bars by the time you enter Sierra Morena. Just like the good old Any% days :P

EDIT: I made a mistake about a particular warp. If anyone saw a previous version of the route, note the change in order of Caverna del Pollo and Sierra Morena mask pieces.

Bagel_Thief

2014-05-18 07:05:31 am

Just done a good ending run with PT's strats and got a 1:10 first try with a disastrous Treetops (I fell big.... lots). As I'm not the fastest with wallhops I think maybe for me personally I'll try a run with getting Goat Climb and see where that gets me.

Unfortunately you wouldn't save any time with getting the forest orb early in 100% as there is a chest right next to the skull switch you have to get and from there it's goat flying which isn't slow. Unless there is something I'm overlooking which is entirely possible.