Guacamelee

NiL8r

2014-02-27 07:55:03 pm

Ah I gotcha Vorpal. Yeah, I use that property of the Headbutt on some wall climbs to help get over awkward cliffs.

FriedEel

2014-02-28 04:11:43 pm

Quote from NiL8r:

Thanks Vorpal. So both Headbutt and Slam give you extra height while in the air. It seems safe to assume that Derp Derp would as well? Gonna have to take a hard look at each room when I get to play this again for small time savers. Eel was using a lot that I hadn't thought of in his run as well.

Let me know if you have any questions, we can start grinding this out prior to your SGDQ run (and thanks for the kind words!)

Vorpal - Cool stuff! I feel like there's definitely a place where I can use that prior to getting double jump, I'll let you know if I find anything.

Also, I thought I'd share some of the 100% run stuff I've been working on. Might give some ideas.

Treetops:

Forest del Chivo 100% collecting @ end:

NiL8r

Edit history:

NiL8r: 2014-02-28 06:34:15 pm

2014-02-28 06:33:56 pm

I'm still in debate over how I want to do the Good Ending run. Getting the Goat Climb will make it much safer, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was faster either. But it takes out most of the Wall Hopping, which is one of the most entertaining, and technical, parts of the run.

FriedEel

2014-02-28 07:29:51 pm

Quote from NiL8r:

I'm still in debate over how I want to do the Good Ending run. Getting the Goat Climb will make it much safer, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was faster either. But it takes out most of the Wall Hopping, which is one of the most entertaining, and technical, parts of the run.

Something to consider, I was trying to wall climb up the Tule Tree section to the Treetops and it took forever with having to break the red blocks and then fall all the way back down. I kept screwing up on my climb up to the last red block and ended up throwing in the towel - it might be too much pressure in a live run.

In the 100% runs I do there's still a lot of the wall climbing involved prior to getting the Goat Climb, and even after. I'm about to start streaming if you wanna chat about it.

NiL8r

2014-03-02 05:42:34 pm

So while I can't do full runs for another few weeks, I have been drilling and re-routing certain rooms over the past week. I can only play for 15-30 minutes before my hand demands I take a break, but I couldn't sit still and wait knowing everyone else is in the marathon is practicing for their runs Tongue

I've been optimizing a lot of platforming which is saving anywhere from fractions of seconds to upwards of 2-3 seconds if done right. I think even after my wrist heals, it'll be a while before I do full runs.

Also, I've got an amazing idea for a donation incentive, but I have to test it first to see if it's even feasible. I wanna keep it a surprise until I've practiced it, but if you look at the user made costumes on Steam, it won't be too hard to guess Cheesy

Weskurrr

2014-03-09 03:03:25 am

So, I've noticed the way you guys do Tule Tree, and decided to contribute my own method. Not sure which is faster, haven't timed them yet, but tell me what you think: http://www.twitch.tv/weskurrr/c/3852495

FriedEel

2014-03-11 02:22:22 am

Weskurrr I dig it,

I'm gonna work it into my Tule Tree route cause I always end up having trouble launching from the 2nd platform (always try to roll cancel into a jump and rooster and I end up missing).

Thanks for sharing man Smiley

NiL8r

2014-03-11 09:33:52 pm

Alright, the cast is off!!! The fracture is still only 70% healed, but I don't have to wear that freaking thing anymore.

What this means: Streaming Guac is gonna take a break for lil bit. Maybe one week, maybe two, I dunno. Right now I'm going hard at drilling wall hops, and it starts to hurt after a while. But now that I've seen the limit that wall hops can be taken, I can't go to SGDQ without getting at least close to these (thank you Eel).

Once I feel comfortable with my skill level there and my wrist is back to it's normal flexibility and stops hurting, practice streams will happen again. As well as some attempts to get my title back pending me being good enough Wink

Xitoshi

Edit history:

Xitoshi: 2014-03-12 04:00:38 pm

2014-03-12 02:31:40 pm

NiL8r: Maybe you already thought about this, but if you are consistent enough you can make "wall jumping the temple" as yet another bidding goal. If you don't feel confident, you can always only show it climbing to sierra or in the desert, just for entertainment.

Also, FriedEel, congrats for your awesome records! I've just find them and didn't had time to watch them yet xD

NiL8r

2014-03-12 06:14:10 pm

Here's a pastebin with info on enemy health and player attack damage:
http://pastebin.com/EqnDy2ci

CasualScrub

2014-03-21 11:28:14 am

Hi, just thought I'd introduce myself. Started running this in the 100% category a little over a week ago and just go my time down to 1:59:09 ingame time today. I've been avoiding watching other people's runs, or reading much of this thread because I want to see how far I can get on my own first, but I do have a few questions so I may as well ask.

Do people generally go by the ingame time? I've been assuming so, since the game includes it's own leaderboard and FriedEel advertised his latest wr with the ingame time on his Twitch. Secondly, are the ingame leaderboards cross-platform, and are all people who seriously run this represented there? I'm currently 4th for 100% (hot on the heels of 3rd), but is the leaderboard I see only for people running it through Steam? And if so, are there any people who run it on other platforms or non-steam pc versions who have times that aren't on the leaderboard?

Thanks, and I hope to get to know you all better later when I start watching other runs (and can start streaming myself sometime next month),

The Casual Scrub.

Hi, just thought I'd introduce myself. Started running this in the 100% category a little over a week ago and just go my time down to 1:59:09 ingame time today. I've been avoiding watching other people's runs, or reading much of this thread because I want to see how far I can get on my own first, but I do have a few questions so I may as well ask.

Do people generally go by the ingame time? I've been assuming so, since the game includes it's own leaderboard and FriedEel advertised his latest wr with the ingame time on his Twitch. Secondly, are the ingame leaderboards cross-platform, and are all people who seriously run this represented there? I'm currently 4th for 100% (hot on the heels of 3rd), but is the leaderboard I see only for people running it through Steam? And if so, are there any people who run it on other platforms or non-steam pc versions who have times that aren't on the leaderboard?

Thanks, and I hope to get to know you all better later when I start watching other runs (and can start streaming myself sometime next month),

The Casual Scrub.

NiL8r

2014-03-21 01:39:54 pm

Welcome casual! Congrats on the time!

There has not been much, if any, research done on how accurate the in game timer is. That being said, we haven't yet seen any irregularities as far as slower RTA's having faster in game times. I will advise you to at least have a real time timer running anyway, as there do exist save+quit tricks which invalidate the in game timer.

As far as the leader boards, no they don't cr[hidden]oss over. Steams leader boards are exclusive from the PSN ones. Steam version runs the fastest, so if you are able, I advise you to stick with that one.

Good luck on improving your time Cheesy

CasualScrub

2014-03-21 01:44:19 pm

Thanks, just took my third place spot with a 1:58:34 run (2:05:54 real time), it was pretty bad though (I forgot to pick up the Chicken Thief quest costing me ~30 seconds) so lots of room to save time. Hoping to be able to get it under 1:50 before I check out how everyone else is doing it.

DapperJester

2014-03-22 10:19:27 am

Hey guys figure I would introduce myself as well. I started working on the 100% of this as well. Best time is about a 1:09. But i have a question I've been doing these runs on my keyboard, and recently picked up a pc controller, and wondering what you guys use and which would be better.

NiL8r

2014-03-23 09:00:55 pm

Pretty sure everyone that runs this uses a controller Tongue

This game just has too many buttons that have to be pressed in rapid succesion for a keyboard. That being said, if you think you can play best on a keyboard, more power to you.

FriedEel

2014-03-24 08:41:26 am

Welcome to the new guys, dapper, casual, and thanks for the kind word xitoshi. Smiley

Casual I think that's really cool you're planning put your own route first, hopefully we'll get to see some new strats. Cheesy

Though nil8rs covered most of it, I thought this might be a good segway into some issues I had with my rta vs. Ingame time
It could have been an issue on my side since I was running Fraps, xinput, wsplit, and xsplit broadcaster, but there was a pretty significant discrepancy in my 53:14 (rta 56:01) Ingame time run. .

Every other run I've done seems to be accurate with the splits and consistent, but did want to point out that there might be an issue. Again though could be me messing things up, will keep everyone posted.

FriedEel

2014-04-02 10:40:50 pm

New glitch! I'm excited but also sad cause I dunno if it can be used anywhere.

So in the same way that frog slam is used to reach higher places, I got to thinking whether or not this could be applied in other directions. After messing around a couple of tries I ended up finding out that it can be used to extend the frames which are registered as allowing the character to wall jump

Here's a video of the most practical use of the glitch - to skip the first cacti arena.

Only problem is that when you come back out on the other side after the pollo form segment, the arena spawns again. I've tried using a save-warp method using the save point right before, but the time it takes to travel back makes the time saved seem negligible. Any ideas for utilizing this trick and/or skipping the cacti arena on the 2nd trip?

Protongue

2014-04-03 03:58:30 am

Hey fellow Guacamelee runners! I've been running this game for the past few weeks (Any% Normal), and look forward to optimizing this game a bit with you all.

Eel, your cacti arena skip is incredible! I think it does work, but on the Pollo Power return, just let the cacti kill you. When I did this, the game spawned me on the desert entrance platform:

I'm working on an alternative and backup strategy for the skip:

Here are my notes on these rough strategies:

Primary Strategy (0:00-0:05):
Break the green blocks with a Frog Slam (cancel your Frog Slam with an Olmec Headbutt after breaking the last block to easly grab onto the wall) [not shown in video]. Then dash-air-jump into a Rooster Uppercut to reach the platform above the cacti arena. I can't describe how to perform the dash-air-jump, other than to mash LT and A.

Backup Strategy (0:10-0:35):
If you fall into the cacti arena, it's not too late, but you'll have to play blind for a bit! With some practice, it's not too crazy. Here is an outline of my current approach:
* * Jump on the top-right cactus (wall jump into a Rooster Uppercut onto his head) and then jump into a Rooster Uppercut out of the arena. You are now off screen!
* Roll ~8x while holding forward (generously paced) to reach the cactus on the ledge.
* Jump and Rooster Uppercut correctly timed to jump over the cactus. To check if you are successful, try Rooster Uppercutting a couple times immediately after you finish the maneuver. If you deplete another stamina, it means you landed on the cactus's head and you're ready to continue. If you don't delete another stamina, it means that you're still falling and will have to re-attempt this maneuver.
* Roll 5x while NOT holding forward. This will put you directly above the green block leading to the desert underground.
* Frog Slam the block, and then press Down+A to drop down.

Both of these strategies are slower than Eel's Frog Slam glitch approach, but they might serve well as semi-consistent alternatives.

Hey fellow Guacamelee runners! I've been running this game for the past few weeks (Any% Normal), and look forward to optimizing this game a bit with you all.

Eel, your cacti arena skip is incredible! I think it does work, but on the Pollo Power return, just let the cacti kill you. When I did this, the game spawned me on the desert entrance platform:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4cmNKIa1Ug

I'm working on an alternative and backup strategy for the skip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s55r9KJvxlk

Here are my notes on these rough strategies:

Primary Strategy (0:00-0:05):
Break the green blocks with a Frog Slam (cancel your Frog Slam with an Olmec Headbutt after breaking the last block to easly grab onto the wall) [not shown in video]. Then dash-air-jump into a Rooster Uppercut to reach the platform above the cacti arena. I can't describe how to perform the dash-air-jump, other than to mash LT and A.

Backup Strategy (0:10-0:35):
If you fall into the cacti arena, it's not too late, but you'll have to play blind for a bit! With some practice, it's not too crazy. Here is an outline of my current approach:
* * Jump on the top-right cactus (wall jump into a Rooster Uppercut onto his head) and then jump into a Rooster Uppercut out of the arena. You are now off screen!
* Roll ~8x while holding forward (generously paced) to reach the cactus on the ledge.
* Jump and Rooster Uppercut correctly timed to jump over the cactus. To check if you are successful, try Rooster Uppercutting a couple times immediately after you finish the maneuver. If you deplete another stamina, it means you landed on the cactus's head and you're ready to continue. If you don't delete another stamina, it means that you're still falling and will have to re-attempt this maneuver.
* Roll 5x while NOT holding forward. This will put you directly above the green block leading to the desert underground.
* Frog Slam the block, and then press Down+A to drop down.

Both of these strategies are slower than Eel's Frog Slam glitch approach, but they might serve well as semi-consistent alternatives.

Protongue

Edit history:

Protongue: 2014-04-03 04:18:54 am

2014-04-03 04:18:32 am

One important note about the cacti arena skip backup strategy!

When you attempt to re-enter this arena immediately after acquiring Pollo Power, the tunnel will be blocked since the arena never deactivated. To unblock the tunnel, move all the way against the gate and then move left, back towards the checkpoint. This kills the arena's enemies, and so the gate opens up. Very unexpected game behavior, but no complaints!

FriedEel

2014-04-03 05:16:20 am

Agghhhh! Protongue I love you! Oh man I'm really excited about this skip now, sub 50 looking more and more feasible.

Didn't expect such quick and awesome feedback, awesome work man!

FriedEel

Edit history:

FriedEel: 2014-04-03 05:22:22 am

FriedEel: 2014-04-03 05:20:32 am

2014-04-03 05:19:18 am

In case anyone hasn't seen it, this video is looking more and more interesting to me.

FriedEel

2014-04-03 05:33:10 am

So add intentional death skips to the run, and the possibility of using 2 controllers with one player... What category does this fall under now? :p

Protongue

Edit history:

Protongue: 2014-04-04 07:20:00 pm

Protongue: 2014-04-04 06:52:31 pm

Protongue: 2014-04-04 06:52:21 pm

Protongue: 2014-04-04 06:51:55 pm

2014-04-04 06:51:32 pm

Forget all that safe/backup strategy jibberjabber for the Cacti Arena Skip! Here's a consistent setup for FriedEel's superior jump:

1. Line up your foot with the left side of the green block
2. Frog Slam!
3. Hold Left+A while falling (jump buffering)
4. Press LT immediately as you hear the fourth green block break (as if you were hitting the button to play the block break sound)

FriedEel

2014-04-04 08:37:56 pm

2 things :

1. Protongue, awesome work man. The jump bufferingworks aamazing (as you just saw in stream :p). Really well articulated guide..

2. I think I'm going to sign up for the /srg marathon for the any%run. I wanted to see if there was any interest in doing a race instead, as I would definitely opt to that. Let me know if anyone's interested.

Weskurrr

2014-04-04 09:11:14 pm

Quote from Protongue:

Forget all that safe/backup strategy jibberjabber for the Cacti Arena Skip! Here's a consistent setup for FriedEel's superior jump:

1. Line up your foot with the left side of the green block
2. Frog Slam!
3. Hold Left+A while falling (jump buffering)
4. Press LT immediately as you hear the fourth green block break (as if you were hitting the button to play the block break sound)

...wow. This gives me insight into a glitch I've now seen more than once while practicing Temple of Rain. I'm wondering if this jump buffer trick will work if you jump into a portal while holding left+A, then dodging as you hit the portal. Looks like I've got something to work on when I have the time.

And @Eel, I can't wait to see a run with this in it! You usually stream late at night, right? I've been missing your streams lately, man!