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there are only 3 segments, i think it's second or third, can't remember correctly
Formerly known as Skullboy
The 100% uses it at the start of segment 11 and the any% is near the minute mark in Segment 4. I'm not 100% sure whether the replay is from a previous segment in either case. Both runners use them once for the run as far as I know.  Don't know if any of this info will help. I'm not crazy about the trick but it was legal (I think) when I verified one of the runs. I don't know if the trick is possible in the other GTA's (I play the PS2 version).
uploading segment 12. my worst nightmare is behind now
I wanted to argue pro minigun, but I cannot procrastinate posting further as I need to make sure that you implement those little ideas in your run. :-)
- collect two rifles in TT's mission, snipe the enemies in Local Liquor Store (stopping near the fence is a good idea)
- you will probably do anyways: collect the satchel charges next to the betting shop in 'Against All Odds'

The pro-minigun post will follow some other time.
I've been thinking about the Minigun myself, but the only reasonable time you could pick it up is after Vertical Bird (at least as far as I can think of right now).

Taking it is fast, but still takes quite some time (landing the Hydra and shit). Proper M4 headshots are nearly equally as fast as just minigunning them. Looking forward to your post.
i'm already implement this idea about satchel charges, but i can't imagine sniping in LLS with common rifle. can you explain it in-depth?
Edit history:
Patrick: 2013-02-13 09:22:48 am
Patrick: 2013-02-13 09:19:36 am
Patrick: 2013-02-13 09:19:04 am
Patrick: 2013-02-13 09:16:30 am
Patrick: 2013-02-13 09:14:06 am
Patrick: 2013-02-13 08:15:05 am
Patrick: 2013-02-13 08:14:38 am
Patrick: 2013-02-13 08:05:43 am
Patrick: 2013-02-12 01:25:14 pm
@sett3
I attached two videos for you. :-)

@S.
editing this the 100th time to ensure you do not interpret this text to be condescending or arrogant - I wrote my perspective without working too hard to formulate it nicely. Tongue
I am feeling really stupid right now.... The evidence is too overwhelming in comparison to the length of this post before I now edited it - in other words, this short text would have done it: Picking up 3500 minigun rounds takes about 70s. That is 3.5s per gang territory. Assuming that you kill half of them with explosives in the same time as it takes you with the minigun (close enemies are just killed by holding the mouse button and aiming from the first to last guy, killing all in between), there are on average 24/2=12 enemies per territory to kill, that means that it would have to take you just 3.5s(per territory)/12 (guys per territory)=~1/3 of a second longer to headshot each guy than just shooting them with a minigun. And those guys are mostly running targets at mid- or high-range. Show me that you can do that.

Read the old post though, as it contains some other useful information...
Unfortunately, I cannot do comparison videos of M4+RPG vs Minigun, as I am much worse at shooting than speedrunners are. I aim to persuade you to try to prove that the former tactic were faster, by posting videos.

Minigun vs RPG+M4

No Minigun strat
Efficient/scarce use of (40-50) rockets for the gang territories
+M4

[[10 near the Maverick stolen to pick up Paul&Maccer, if that route is chosen; 40 in Toreno's RPG mission]]

Minigun
time lost ~90s
route implementation: flight: abandoned airstrip -> minigun -> Madd Dogg's Mansion
calculation: ~35s + 55s (extra ammo, 6x500 rounds)=~90s
time saved
- the Big Smoke battle (13s)
[[alternative: 1 rocket to clean the room, chainsaw, 17s - minigun:4s;
[automatic shotgun,M4 are too slow, RPG is useless, when adding molotovs he runs too fast for me, probably useless]
]]
- excessive use of RPG ammo in LV (10s)
summary: 90s - 23s = 67s


Arguments for the Minigun (used for gang wars)

general:
allows killing gang members in car when they are
- moving fast (fleeing)
- far away
disadvantage: two stars if you have one star and destroy two cars in quick succession.

better than head shots
- the enemies are mostly in high or mid-range
- they move like crazy, at least in the first seconds
the M4 is an alternative if you can shoot moving targets in the head quickly - but I claim that you are not capable of doing so.

not much slower than rockets
--assuming that you have practice firing rockets at moving targets
--you can fire arround 2 rockets per gang territory
- where rockets rock (4 people close to each other), the minigun rocks, too
-- you lose 1s for changing weapons and shooting the rocket, so you lose the time you won in comparison to the minigun
- rockets are scarce
Edit: When the enemies are near, you can use grenades. Therefore, 40 rockets are quite much, I admit.




Attachments:
how much rounds for minigun you can pick up in toreno's mansion?
500, after each save (without even reloading) another 500.
I didn't read your old post as the formatting confused me. What you wrote now actually makes sense. I'll fiddle with it a bit.
Edit history:
S.: 2013-02-13 11:37:00 pm
Pff that lung capacity. You've barely been underwater for 1 minute, let alone the required 6-7.
You still had to play for 5 minutes at some point. Whether that's done within a segment or prior it, imo it should still be included within the timing.


edit: lol I am ashamed now.
120 seconds underwater is what's required AFAICT, a minute for each upgrade. The 6 minutes (or whatever) spent in the segmented any% run includes recharging oxygen while swimming, and is a bad way to do it. Check out the last pages of the any% thread for my various ideas and research including the swimming, mainly starting from this post. Some of it would be at least good to know for 100% as well.

Great job so far, sett3! Will be interesting to see something from S.
Edit history:
S.: 2013-02-13 11:34:53 pm
Lol massive derp on my end. Lemme change the numbers a bit.

Quote from S.:
Pff that lung capacity. You've barely been underwater for 1 minute, let alone the required 2.
You still had to play for 1 minute at some point. Whether that's done within a segment or prior to it, imo it should still be included within the timing.


Significantly less, but it's still time spent playing that's not actually included within the timing. Admitted, I haven't kept track of how long he has actually been underwater (and for how long he will be in future segments), so maybe this becomes irrelevant now.
Although I still have a rant about this method concerning muscle/fat , I'll keep that to myself for now until I have some more data.


Quote from Nixixix:
Will be interesting to see something from S.
I interpret that as an insult. Although I can see why you said it. Besides the firefighter strat (which is already from long ago) I haven't shown you anything and only whined about replays and lung capacity :p I could show you some improvements I found, but I already explained earlier why I won't right now. (Plus I'm too lazy to make vids as it's only minor stuff.)
Woah, not at all! Who am I to complain anyway. I just meant I can't wait to see your run, even practice. Sorry for the confusion!
Edit history:
S.: 2013-02-14 12:45:53 am
S.: 2013-02-14 12:42:51 am
S.: 2013-02-14 12:40:22 am
S.: 2013-02-14 12:39:13 am
Well despite it not being an insult, it could've well been. I haven't contributed as much as I actually wanted to :p Thanks though (fakking text, can't interpret sentences so good.)

Anyway, good time to ask this, which is of no relevance to sett3's run anymore (unless he wishes to redo a lot of segments AGAIN), but I want to make a decision on this already (even though it doesn't really matter yet at this point):
I'm mostly still contemplating what to do with Taxi Driver. I've spent hard looking for a sweetspot (taken a look at the mission script as well, found something interesting but couldn't get it to work. I'll get to this another day (remind me of it if I don't))

There's two options I see.

1) San Fierro
2) Los Santos

In favor of LS:
-If I happen to pick up the chainsaw (which I might not anymore because of my big derp lol), it will save a bunch of seconds on knocking the doors out, whereas in SF one'd have to do with just knocking them out with my fists. (I wonder why Sett didn't knock the taxi doors out, He did for the ambulance)
-Less hilly than SF. so easier to drive. Faster? Might not, uphill in SF would be slow, but downhill would be fast, although I think uphill slows you down more than downhill speeds you up.
-A pay n spray within reach. In SF they're horribly misplaced. So you'd need more luck manipulation to get new cabbies.
-I get the nitro upgrade earlier, but I doubt I end up driving much in taxis anyway.

In favor of SF:
-The destinations are much more friendly I found. The only 3 being truly annoying being "Missionary Hill", "The Airport" and "Whatever the docks are called" , whereas Los Santos has a bunch of ridiculous ones. "Prolaps store, Santa maria beach, burger shots and just a lot on the west side of the city. And two different airport destinations (look below for notes on the airport spraytag).
-Actually, just that. But it does save time on having to kick out annoying customers who pick a stupid destination.

Regarding the airport spraytag:
Driving over there with the taxi is kinda slow, especially since you also have to drive back again. However, I found a way to eliminate driving over there.
When you unlock the streetraces, the big race starts at the airport. So what you do is start the race, drive over to the tag, spray it, then destroy your car (satchel's or the earlier mentioned minigun? Or just the gas tank.) to fail the race and get teleported back.
This eliminates:
-driving back again
-having to drive a stupid long distance with a slow vehicle (taxi/cabbie)
-the drive over there will be shorter, plus you'll have a faster vehicle to get there with.
-a mid-long taxi destination

Although the airport destination isn't the worst destination, so I might end up going there anyway and spray the tag (sett3 ended up there twice, while he only needed to once, and it didn't harm him much really).

At least now SF becomes an option for taxi driver. I was really sceptical about Taxi Driver going to work properly in SF, but after trying it a few times, I'm really optimistic about it. I just don't know whether I'm TOO optimistic, thoughts please.

I haven't tried LV too much, but the few times I did it just shat on me. Gave up on it too quickly though so will have to take a look at that too.

The race thing also might also work for the tag at the observatory (Courier bicycle is slow, way better to use your fancy lowrider from the Lowrider Race and the even more fancy teleport back).




This is really the only major route change I have in mind, but I wonder if it's actually a good one. It's just bugging me. My most recent play sessions of SA have just been taxi driver and nothing else :p Currently still thinking LS is the fastest, but I really want to find arguments for SF , as that one is much more fun to do Taxi missions in. Guess I'll continue grinding out taxi runs :p
Edit history:
Nixixix: 2013-02-14 05:09:06 am
Unfortunately a quick search didn't reveal a map of the taxi destinations, so I'm just guessing. You've likely thought of these already.

- Get some snapshots in SF, if those aren't already conveniently along your route.
- Collect cars to export. I guess worse than luck manipulating them elsewhere, could be good for single-segment.
- When you need to start a mission on the other side of the city, do taxi until you get a nearby destination.
- Use between gang territory takeovers (before Riot). Again more useful in single-segment. Taxi submission cancels incoming attacks, and you can just continue until gang members happen to spawn near a destination.

I'm afraid that's all I have to offer. I think my lifetime total is around 100 fares in this game, and I've skipped most of the taxi segments in speed runs as well. From what I remember, LV really was horrible.
I am not going to trust my memory anymore from now on. Collecting minigun ammo takes only 7s per 500 rounds (including saving time). It took me 6k rounds in my latest casual LS run (because I am bad compared to speedrunners), maybe I will test and practice a month or so to get that number down to 3.5k, maybe 3.5k is too little even for the good player.

airport tag/observatory: I think a speedrunner can do sidestuff and win the race.

Completely unrelated: The Leviathan in 'Up, Up, and Away' can swim. So you will want to get the oyster near its location using it.

Have fun testing that taxi stuff and so on.
How is segment 13 going?
Quote:
airport tag/observatory: I think a speedrunner can do sidestuff and win the race.

It might still be faster to destroy the car anyway and restart the race, as you dont need to drive back anymore.

Just need to time whether
exploding the car, fading to black, reselecting the race and sitting through the 3 second countdown again
is faster than
getting in the car again, drive back to the main road.


Anyway, lets not indulge into my run anymore. Right now sett3's run deserves some more attention. Apart from my vision on lung capacity, I'm really enjoying it. Great execution too. Nice driving and parking.
Uff, I'm kinda confused about what are you guys saying about lung capacity. 1 - you need to spend 6 bars for each upgrade, 2 - upgrade in segment with courier was a pure luck, you know, that stats dragging onto your loaded game, also need to re-view cannibal's segment with lung capacity. Ok, about that tag, I tested it long ago, and that doesn't REALLY help, approx 5 seconds maximum. What about knocking off taxi doors - pff, you need high amount of luck of taxi to spawn, and doors can just not knock off
To be exact, it's not about the bars but 60 seconds underwater for each upgrade. If you swim while diving that is pretty close to 6 bars, yes. Maybe even exactly. Anyway, as long as your route includes a total of at least 120 seconds of diving before Amphibious Assault, I think everyone is happy.
Quote from sett3:
Uff, I'm kinda confused about what are you guys saying about lung capacity. 1 - you need to spend 6 bars for each upgrade, 2 - upgrade in segment with courier was a pure luck, you know, that stats dragging onto your loaded game, also need to re-view cannibal's segment with lung capacity. Ok, about that tag, I tested it long ago, and that doesn't REALLY help, approx 5 seconds maximum. What about knocking off taxi doors - pff, you need high amount of luck of taxi to spawn, and doors can just not knock off

sett3, How is the next few segments going?
I'll start working on it today or tomorrow, haven't got any time yet
It seams I misunderstood what tag it was about... Anyways, 4k rounds in my second attempt focusing on efficiency, therefore my guess was correct, 3.5k is feasible.

Sett,
do you think you will need extra diving apart from the oyster diving?

I misunderstood nixixix also, his knowledge in my words: do not use space in order to save oxygen, just the 'start diving button' ;mash the button to 're-dive' early; train down health;go on land to refill the oxygen bar.
Edit history:
S.: 2013-02-14 07:58:42 pm
The tag: Told you it was minor stuff.

And yeah the taxi doors are pretty inconsistent, although I did have multiple cases where punching it ~5 times works. No need to smash both of them, just pick one side and keep parking that side next to the fare, but yeah I can definitely see why you didn't. Some doors just don't want to be punched.

Did some firing with the minigun and it's definitely better than M4 / bike drive by. Whether it saves enough time to be worth it, I can't tell yet. I would have to time it. It also depends on the spawns, if they split up a minigun is definitely better, but if they clutter up there's no point wasting the time in getting a minigun.

Would need a lot of grinding gang territories.