Golden Sun: The Lost Age

2012-02-28 05:02:32 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from TheOthin:

On that note, is there a way to set it to fast before you start a file, rather than having to sit through the first conversation on medium and then spend a few seconds of game time correcting it?

No, I don't think there's a way to do that.

TheOthin

Edit history:

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 01:35:02 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 01:34:52 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 01:34:49 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 02:55:19 am

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 02:54:53 am

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 02:53:55 am

TheOthin: 2012-02-28 06:56:37 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-28 06:48:10 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-28 05:31:11 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-28 05:31:10 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-28 05:22:09 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-28 05:21:55 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-28 05:12:37 pm

2012-02-28 05:11:09 pm

Okay, problem with the Japanese version. I'm trying to do the early Gondowan glitch in Gondowan Cliffs, but instead of ever winding up on the Gondowan side, I keep ending up either on the Indra side or in the cave. I don't recall ever winding up in the cave in the American version; it seemed like it was just the Indra side or the Gondowan side, so it seems like the cave possibility has replaced the Gondowan possibility.

I'm going to keep testing things, but it seems like this confirms my suspicion that the Japanese version might have different results for the Retreat glitch... unfortunately, in this case, it's the wrong result. Very wrong. The Japanese version seems much faster just because of the text, but losing this might not be worth that cost.

The Retreat shortcuts in Kandorean Temple and Dehkan Plateau work as usual, though. I haven't tested it anywhere else yet.

Edit: Tried again by going back to my save from before entering the cliffs, and decided not to activate the geyser this time, but still no luck; I keep going to the save instead. At least now we have enough of a distinction for separate categories for each version, maybe? That'll probably be useful later.

Edit2: I currently have two separate playthroughs between the two versions of the game, and the Japanese version is, up to that point, getting the same or better times with much less effort. I suppose I should just keep going with both playthroughs and see how things turn out.

Edit3: What the hell? I checked back to my first file saved in the glitchy area, where I thought was right below the glitched door. Going up triggered the warp, but eventually, going down triggered the warp to the Gondowan side. I didn't save, though, and for some reason, I can't replicate it. I'm going to keep trying; it seems early Gondowan is possible on the Japanese version, but it's more difficult, somehow. What the fuck is with these doors?

Edit4: Okay, I replicated it and I still don't know how, but it seems like it changes after several soft-resets, and different things started happening when I went left a bit. Either way, I'm saved on the Gondowan side now, so I'll be able to continue with this.

Edit5: Continued on to Gabomba Statue and noticed a Retreat warp there that I haven't heard of, but I confirmed that it also exists in the English version. In the room with all the gears you can cross, take the path to the right towards the lower area where you can use Pound to reverse the direction, but before going down the ladder, activate the Retreat glitch (from the gear room). Going down the ladder places you back in Kibombo, at the cliff area where you meet Piers, but the area is set to daytime. You can move around, interact with people, and buy stuff as if the ceremony has finished, and their dialogue is changed as if it has. The path to the statue is clear, but its mouth is closed. The Black Crystal is sitting on it just like before, and you can walk up to it, but you can't interact with it. You can also go into Akafubu's hut to trigger the conversation normally triggered at the end of the dungeon; this makes the area appear light on the world map, but regardless, if you go back to the world map or into the dungeon and return to the town, it will be back to its nighttime state.

It's also possible to exit the area with Piers; the trigger for him to stay behind only exists at night. However, none of this seems to have any useful application. Returning to Madra and the Lemurian Ship, the events to get the Cyclone Chip and to enter the ship won't trigger without the Black Crystal, even with Piers and with the end of the Akafubu conversation triggered. Ironically, the Black Crystal is also in Madra at the same time, hanging on the wall, but just like in Kibombo, you still can't get it, even with Piers. It also stays there if you already have it in your possession by clearing the dungeon; presumably it remains there until you defeat Briggs.

The one relevant thing I noticed is that even returning to Madra and getting the Cyclone Chip, you can't reenter Gondowan Cliffs without triggering the Akafubu conversation - although presumably you could trigger it any time later by going up to his room, even with early daytime. Because going back to the cliffs is so important to get Kindle and Char, I think this puts the glitch to skip the last bit of the conversation out of the question for speedruns.

Something else occurred to me, which I intend to test later. If you generate a password with another Shaman's Rod, and do the stuff Manocheese explained, it sounds like it should be possible to repeat Trial Road after the Reunion to duplicate items at any time. Not useful for speedruns, but interesting regardless.

[s]Okay, problem with the Japanese version. I'm trying to do the early Gondowan glitch in Gondowan Cliffs, but instead of ever winding up on the Gondowan side, I keep ending up either on the Indra side or in the cave. I don't recall ever winding up in the cave in the American version; it seemed like it was just the Indra side or the Gondowan side, so it seems like the cave possibility has replaced the Gondowan possibility.

I'm going to keep testing things, but it seems like this confirms my suspicion that the Japanese version might have different results for the Retreat glitch... unfortunately, in this case, it's the wrong result. Very wrong. The Japanese version seems much faster just because of the text, but losing this might not be worth that cost.[/s]

The Retreat shortcuts in Kandorean Temple and Dehkan Plateau work as usual, though. I haven't tested it anywhere else yet.

[s]Edit: Tried again by going back to my save from before entering the cliffs, and decided not to activate the geyser this time, but still no luck; I keep going to the save instead. At least now we have enough of a distinction for separate categories for each version, maybe? That'll probably be useful later.

Edit2: I currently have two separate playthroughs between the two versions of the game, and the Japanese version is, up to that point, getting the same or better times with much less effort. I suppose I should just keep going with both playthroughs and see how things turn out.[/s]

Edit3: What the hell? I checked back to my first file saved in the glitchy area, where I thought was right below the glitched door. Going up triggered the warp, but eventually, going [i]down[/i] triggered the warp to the Gondowan side. I didn't save, though, and for some reason, I can't replicate it. I'm going to keep trying; it seems early Gondowan [i]is[/i] possible on the Japanese version, but it's more difficult, somehow. What the fuck is with these doors?

Edit4: Okay, I replicated it and I still don't know how, but it seems like it changes after several soft-resets, and different things started happening when I went left a bit. Either way, I'm saved on the Gondowan side now, so I'll be able to continue with this.

Edit5: Continued on to Gabomba Statue and noticed a Retreat warp there that I haven't heard of, but I confirmed that it also exists in the English version. In the room with all the gears you can cross, take the path to the right towards the lower area where you can use Pound to reverse the direction, but before going down the ladder, activate the Retreat glitch (from the gear room). Going down the ladder places you back in Kibombo, at the cliff area where you meet Piers, but the area is set to daytime. You can move around, interact with people, and buy stuff as if the ceremony has finished, and their dialogue is changed as if it has. The path to the statue is clear, but its mouth is closed. The Black Crystal is sitting on it just like before, and you can walk up to it, but you can't interact with it. You can also go into Akafubu's hut to trigger the conversation normally triggered at the end of the dungeon; this makes the area appear light on the world map, but regardless, if you go back to the world map or into the dungeon and return to the town, it will be back to its nighttime state.

It's also possible to exit the area with Piers; the trigger for him to stay behind only exists at night. However, none of this seems to have any useful application. Returning to Madra and the Lemurian Ship, the events to get the Cyclone Chip and to enter the ship won't trigger without the Black Crystal, even with Piers and with the end of the Akafubu conversation triggered. Ironically, the Black Crystal is also in Madra at the same time, hanging on the wall, but just like in Kibombo, you still can't get it, even with Piers. It also stays there if you already have it in your possession by clearing the dungeon; presumably it remains there until you defeat Briggs.

The one relevant thing I noticed is that even returning to Madra and getting the Cyclone Chip, you can't reenter Gondowan Cliffs without triggering the Akafubu conversation - although presumably you could trigger it any time later by going up to his room, even with early daytime. Because going back to the cliffs is so important to get Kindle and Char, I think this puts the glitch to skip the last bit of the conversation out of the question for speedruns.

Something else occurred to me, which I intend to test later. If you generate a password with another Shaman's Rod, and do the stuff Manocheese explained, it sounds like it should be possible to repeat Trial Road after the Reunion to duplicate items at any time. Not useful for speedruns, but interesting regardless.

Manocheese

2012-02-29 01:24:00 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from TheOthin:

Edit4: Okay, I replicated it and I still don't know how, but it seems like it changes after several soft-resets, and different things started happening when I went left a bit.

Yes, resets affect what's in the out-of-bounds area. I suggest doing it exactly like I did in my video; that method works pretty well for me.

TheOthin

2012-02-29 01:38:06 pm

Quote from Manocheese:

Quote from TheOthin:

Edit4: Okay, I replicated it and I still don't know how, but it seems like it changes after several soft-resets, and different things started happening when I went left a bit.

Yes, resets affect what's in the out-of-bounds area. I suggest doing it exactly like I did in my video; that method works pretty well for me.

I've watched your video many times and replicated it on the English version just as many times. What I'm saying is that the Japanese version is different, somehow.

Manocheese

2012-02-29 03:36:45 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Interesting. It's definitely worth testing other areas to see if there are any beneficial differences.

TheOthin

Edit history:

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 04:21:57 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 04:21:39 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-29 04:19:07 pm

2012-02-29 04:17:07 pm

Yeah, that's a main thing I'm curious about. Haven't found anything yet, although of the four dungeons I've reached, three are already mostly skipped and don't have much more to do, so I don't have a lot else to look for so far.

There's a lot of potential. If there's a way to get into the back of the Lemurian Ship, it could skip much of the dungeon and perhaps even the Aqua Hydra, which seems plausible in a dungeon so roundabout. And if the Sea of Time is rearranged a bit, who knows where it might be possible to wind up with a save warp?

Even if there isn't anything helpful, the faster text speed is great in general. I feel like this can provide the big time cut to bring the time for the actual run below 6 hours with the current route.

Another difference I noticed is that my characters' PP seems to recover faster. I haven't confirmed that there's actually a difference, but it feels this way; I wonder if there's any truth in this. That's more questionable as to whether it's positive or negative, but a bit of combat can help clear through it for more Retreat use. Also another reason to get Felix to LV10 quickly for Cure Well.

Yeah, that's a main thing I'm curious about. Haven't found anything yet, although of the four dungeons I've reached, three are already mostly skipped and don't have much more to do, so I don't have a lot else to look for so far.

There's a lot of potential. If there's a way to get into the back of the Lemurian Ship, it could skip much of the dungeon and perhaps even the Aqua Hydra, which seems plausible in a dungeon so roundabout. And if the Sea of Time is rearranged a bit, who knows where it might be possible to wind up with a save warp?

Even if there isn't anything helpful, the faster text speed is great in general. I feel like this can provide the big time cut to bring the time for the actual run below 6 hours with the current route.

Another difference I noticed is that my characters' PP seems to recover faster. I haven't confirmed that there's actually a difference, but it feels this way; I wonder if there's any truth in this. That's more questionable as to whether it's positive or negative, but a bit of combat can help clear through it for more Retreat use. Also another reason to get Felix to LV10 quickly for Cure Well.

TheOthin

Edit history:

TheOthin: 2012-03-02 02:48:20 pm

2012-03-02 02:47:56 pm

Continuing on along my planned route to Gaia Rock, and making much better time than expected: At the maze entrance, my time is 2:35, with the other two Trident pieces already.

Noticed another difference after trying the maze a few times based on the order given in the first post and failing to get anywhere: the path is different in the Japanese version. Checking it with Growth, the order is ULLUURUURUURUU.

I was able to get into a pattern of occasional battles that still keeps my characters strong enough to win if I pick my battles carefully, without spending too much time. My levels at present are 15/15/15/20, with the planned Djinn setup (3/4/4/4). I'll go through the maze again following this pattern, and hopefully, I'll soon have good news to post regarding the full-power Serpent fight.

Manocheese

2012-03-02 07:50:37 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from TheOthin:

Something else occurred to me, which I intend to test later. If you generate a password with another Shaman's Rod, and do the stuff Manocheese explained, it sounds like it should be possible to repeat Trial Road after the Reunion to duplicate items at any time. Not useful for speedruns, but interesting regardless.

I never thought of that. It sounds like it would work. Though if you're generating a password, you could just generate whatever items you want instead of duplicating them. Still, your idea is interesting.

TheOthin

Edit history:

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 10:59:10 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 03:31:19 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 03:25:02 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 01:41:31 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 01:11:18 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 09:39:27 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 09:38:51 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 09:38:34 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 09:27:02 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-03 09:26:58 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-02 09:29:36 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-02 09:27:54 pm

2012-03-02 08:18:22 pm

Quote from Manocheese:

Quote from TheOthin:

Something else occurred to me, which I intend to test later. If you generate a password with another Shaman's Rod, and do the stuff Manocheese explained, it sounds like it should be possible to repeat Trial Road after the Reunion to duplicate items at any time. Not useful for speedruns, but interesting regardless.

I never thought of that. It sounds like it would work. Though if you're generating a password, you could just generate whatever items you want instead of duplicating them. Still, your idea is interesting.

True, although that requires planning beforehand and plugging them into a limited inventory. So this makes it more flexible and convenient: rather than creating a super-password during a playthrough, you can just add one thing before the reunion and work with whatever you want later.

The Serpent is proving to be trouble. Group healing spells help, but even having them available means that character has to have not even started going through their Djinn. Also, it turns out Jenna is one level away from learning Healing Aura. I can go back to a save from a few minutes earlier and go switch the order so I fight Briggs first for the Exp, probably not losing any time; I'll probably do that and keep LV16 in mind as a good benchmark.

Edit: Fuck it. I can't survive without having a group healer on hand constantly, and having one slows the battle down by a ridiculous amount - to the point where someone always gets defeated by Mighty Press, and any characters being Downed destroys the strategy. A Spirit Ring would solve all these problems, and I think it's necessary in order to feasibly win with these levels and Djinn, but I don't have any saves far enough back to get one without losing a ton of time. I'll use another save slot to go back and get the ring to try beating it; if it works, I'll get the ring and go for the kill on the actual run. For actually completing this test run, I'll go from where I am and complete Gaia Rock normally.

Edit2: Going back to Aqua Rock and Yallam for the Spirit Ring, I was able to make it back to the Serpent only six minutes slower than going there directly, which is still much better than the ten minutes it would take to do Gaia Rock normally. So I'll continue from here.

I've managed to put together a good strategy for the battle that keeps the Serpent's main attacks from being a threat, but it's really just reliant on surviving 10 or so turns without getting a character killed by Mighty Press or having the Spirit Ring break. Which is still not exactly easy, but it seems doable; I've gotten close, and I'll keep trying.

I'm also quite optimistic about how this run will turn out. My time is currently 2:43, and it's not going to take more than an hour from here to finish up in the Eastern Sea and get the Grindstone. And the Western Sea is just Shaman Village, Jupiter Lighthouse, Magma Rock, Loho, Mars Lighthouse, and the ending. With the faster text speed from the Japanese version, I doubt it's going to take longer than two hours, so sub-6:00 may already be reasonable for this test run. And this test run is terrible.

Full route, with all this in mind:

Prologue
Daila sanctum warp
Kandorean Temple (skip to end, get Fog)
Daila sanctum warp
Dehkan Plateau (skip to Madra)
Get Iron
Madra (enter/exit)
Dehkan Plateau (from back, get Pound Cube, get Cannon)
Madra sanctum warp
Yampi Desert (get Blitz, get Scoop Gem)
Madra sanctum warp
Gondowan Cliffs (skip to other side)
Kibombo Mountains
Gabomba Statue (get Steel)
Kibombo Mountains (get Waft, skip to Madra)
Gondowan Cliffs (get Kindle, get Healing Fungus)
Madra (get Char)
Lemurian Ship
Alhafra (enter/exit)
Air's Rock (skip stuff)
Alhafra sanctum warp
Apojii Islands
Aqua Rock (get Tear Stone, get Steam)
Apojii Islands sanctum warp
Yallam (get Spirit Ring)
Get Wheeze
Tundaria Tower (get Reflux, skip to Madra)
Enter Madra
Madra sanctum warp
Shrine of the Sea God
Daila
Shrine of the Sea God (get Breath)
Alhafra (fight Briggs, get Lucky Medal)
Gaia Rock (skip lights, get Cloud Brand)
Ankohl Ruins
Champa (get Viking Helm)
Sea of Time
Lemuria (get Aegis Shield)
Shaman Village
Atteka Inlet
Contigo (get Salt)
Jupiter Lighthouse
Contigo sanctum warp
Atteka Inlet (get Geode)
Magma Rock (use Burst glitch, skip to Blaze, get Fury, get Mars Djinni)
Loho (get Lull)
Loho sanctum warp
Prox (get Mold, get Mercury Djinni)
Mars Lighthouse (get Balm, get Valkyrie Mail, get Sol Blade)

Edit3: Got even closer once, but all the chances involved seem so slim... Here's what I have so far, maybe we'll be able to come up with something better.

Jenna: Fog, Spring, Shade, Breath
Felix: Blitz, Waft, Wheeze
Piers: Cannon, Kindle, Char, Reflux
Sheba: Echo, Iron, Steel, Steam

Felix holds the Spirit Ring. Shade and Steam are Set; all other Djinn are in Standby. The strategy for the first three turns is pretty much constant, as long as I can survive that long:

Jenna summons Meteor
Felix uses Spirit Ring
Piers defends
Sheba unleashes Steam

Jenna unleashes Shade
Felix uses Spirit Ring
Piers summons Boreas
Sheba summons Thor

Jenna defends
Felix uses Spirit Ring
Piers defends
Sheba defends

From here, it varies based on what I need. The key thing is, I need group healing absolutely every turn. Felix has to keep spamming the Spirit Ring and hoping it stays together; he eventually has to summon Cybele and start unleashing his Djinn, but he can't do that until Piers' Djinn have recovered so he can start casting Wish, then Piers can unleash his own Djinn once Felix finishes and can start healing again. I immediately use Steam again for more resistance bonuses, but the bonuses wear off before the end of the battle, so I'm going to need to have Sheba set it and unleash it again sometime before then. I've only gotten to that point once, but the damage taken without the bonuses pretty much immediately destroyed my team.

Shade is also nice for getting temporary relief from the Serpent's attacks, so I sometimes have Jenna hold on to it or set/unleash again, since she doesn't need to be busy with healing. Past the first couple of turns, though, most of the Serpent's attacks aren't too threatening because of the +80 resistance, and even Piers' Wish is enough to heal everyone completely. The physical attacks are the real issue: Mighty Press can kill any character instantly and often kills Jenna and Sheba regardless if they aren't defending or protected by Shade. The Serpent's basic attack can also do massive damage to Jenna and Sheba. I'm thinking about using my backup save to grab better armor for the two of them, which might help.

I mean, the only thing to really do about Mighty Press is to win faster... Let's see. Jenna summons Meteor on Turn 1, that means Piers will have his four Djinn back at the end of Turn 5. From there, Felix summons Cybele and unleashes his three Djinn, finishing on Turn 9. Then Piers unleashes his four Djinn, finishes on Turn 13, and I can summon rush and kill the Serpent on Turn 14. That's a lot of chances for a Mighty Press if we can't find a faster way.

Edit4: I guess Luck increases could help reduce the chances of a Mighty Press, but I don't know how big the difference would be. It should be possible to get a Festival Coat right before the Serpent fight which gives a big Luck bonus, and a couple of Lucky Peppers than could give smaller bonuses, but I don't know if it makes enough of a difference that any of those would be worth the time.

On the other hand, now might be the time to try to solve the RNG entirely.

Edit5: Looking into things more carefully, the chances aren't as stacked as they seem; there's a lot more room for leeway past the beginning, since defenses are higher and Jenna and Sheba spend a lot of the time using Defend anyway. And with all that in mind, Mighty Press's KO rate isn't as high as it had seemed; it's just that it's so destructive at the beginning even with its normal damage.

I managed to reach the final summon turn once, but the Serpent ruined it by tossing out two Mighty Presses before any of my characters could act. Winning this fight under these conditions is definitely feasible, and my strategy does seem workable... it just takes time. I'll try more tomorrow. Of course, the really annoying thing is remembering that I'll have to do this all over again on the real run...

[quote="Manocheese"][quote="TheOthin"]Something else occurred to me, which I intend to test later. If you generate a password with another Shaman's Rod, and do the stuff Manocheese explained, it sounds like it should be possible to repeat Trial Road after the Reunion to duplicate items at any time. Not useful for speedruns, but interesting regardless.[/quote]

I never thought of that. It sounds like it would work. Though if you're generating a password, you could just generate whatever items you want instead of duplicating them. Still, your idea is interesting.[/quote]
True, although that requires planning beforehand and plugging them into a limited inventory. So this makes it more flexible and convenient: rather than creating a super-password during a playthrough, you can just add one thing before the reunion and work with whatever you want later.

The Serpent is proving to be trouble. Group healing spells help, but even having them available means that character has to have not even started going through their Djinn. Also, it turns out Jenna is one level away from learning Healing Aura. I can go back to a save from a few minutes earlier and go switch the order so I fight Briggs first for the Exp, probably not losing any time; I'll probably do that and keep LV16 in mind as a good benchmark.

Edit: Fuck it. I can't survive without having a group healer on hand constantly, and having one slows the battle down by a ridiculous amount - to the point where someone always gets defeated by Mighty Press, and any characters being Downed destroys the strategy. A Spirit Ring would solve all these problems, and I think it's necessary in order to feasibly win with these levels and Djinn, but I don't have any saves far enough back to get one without losing a ton of time. I'll use another save slot to go back and get the ring to try beating it; if it works, I'll get the ring and go for the kill on the actual run. For actually completing this test run, I'll go from where I am and complete Gaia Rock normally.

Edit2: Going back to Aqua Rock and Yallam for the Spirit Ring, I was able to make it back to the Serpent only six minutes slower than going there directly, which is still much better than the ten minutes it would take to do Gaia Rock normally. So I'll continue from here.

I've managed to put together a good strategy for the battle that keeps the Serpent's main attacks from being a threat, but it's really just reliant on surviving 10 or so turns without getting a character killed by Mighty Press or having the Spirit Ring break. Which is still not exactly easy, but it seems doable; I've gotten close, and I'll keep trying.

I'm also quite optimistic about how this run will turn out. My time is currently 2:43, and it's not going to take more than an hour from here to finish up in the Eastern Sea and get the Grindstone. And the Western Sea is just Shaman Village, Jupiter Lighthouse, Magma Rock, Loho, Mars Lighthouse, and the ending. With the faster text speed from the Japanese version, I doubt it's going to take longer than two hours, so sub-6:00 may already be reasonable for this test run. And this test run is terrible.

Full route, with all this in mind:

Prologue
Daila sanctum warp
Kandorean Temple (skip to end, get Fog)
Daila sanctum warp
Dehkan Plateau (skip to Madra)
Get Iron
Madra (enter/exit)
Dehkan Plateau (from back, get Pound Cube, get Cannon)
Madra sanctum warp
Yampi Desert (get Blitz, get Scoop Gem)
Madra sanctum warp
Gondowan Cliffs (skip to other side)
Kibombo Mountains
Gabomba Statue (get Steel)
Kibombo Mountains (get Waft, skip to Madra)
Gondowan Cliffs (get Kindle, get Healing Fungus)
Madra (get Char)
Lemurian Ship
Alhafra (enter/exit)
Air's Rock (skip stuff)
Alhafra sanctum warp
Apojii Islands
Aqua Rock (get Tear Stone, get Steam)
Apojii Islands sanctum warp
Yallam (get Spirit Ring)
Get Wheeze
Tundaria Tower (get Reflux, skip to Madra)
Enter Madra
Madra sanctum warp
Shrine of the Sea God
Daila
Shrine of the Sea God (get Breath)
Alhafra (fight Briggs, get Lucky Medal)
Gaia Rock (skip lights, get Cloud Brand)
Ankohl Ruins
Champa (get Viking Helm)
Sea of Time
Lemuria (get Aegis Shield)
Shaman Village
Atteka Inlet
Contigo (get Salt)
Jupiter Lighthouse
Contigo sanctum warp
Atteka Inlet (get Geode)
Magma Rock (use Burst glitch, skip to Blaze, get Fury, get Mars Djinni)
Loho (get Lull)
Loho sanctum warp
Prox (get Mold, get Mercury Djinni)
Mars Lighthouse (get Balm, get Valkyrie Mail, get Sol Blade)

Edit3: Got even closer once, but all the chances involved seem so slim... Here's what I have so far, maybe we'll be able to come up with something better.

Jenna: Fog, Spring, Shade, Breath
Felix: Blitz, Waft, Wheeze
Piers: Cannon, Kindle, Char, Reflux
Sheba: Echo, Iron, Steel, Steam

Felix holds the Spirit Ring. Shade and Steam are Set; all other Djinn are in Standby. The strategy for the first three turns is pretty much constant, as long as I can survive that long:

Jenna summons Meteor
Felix uses Spirit Ring
Piers defends
Sheba unleashes Steam

Jenna unleashes Shade
Felix uses Spirit Ring
Piers summons Boreas
Sheba summons Thor

Jenna defends
Felix uses Spirit Ring
Piers defends
Sheba defends

From here, it varies based on what I need. The key thing is, I need group healing absolutely every turn. Felix has to keep spamming the Spirit Ring and hoping it stays together; he eventually has to summon Cybele and start unleashing his Djinn, but he can't do that until Piers' Djinn have recovered so he can start casting Wish, then Piers can unleash his own Djinn once Felix finishes and can start healing again. I immediately use Steam again for more resistance bonuses, but the bonuses wear off before the end of the battle, so I'm going to need to have Sheba set it and unleash it again sometime before then. I've only gotten to that point once, but the damage taken without the bonuses pretty much immediately destroyed my team.

Shade is also nice for getting temporary relief from the Serpent's attacks, so I sometimes have Jenna hold on to it or set/unleash again, since she doesn't need to be busy with healing. Past the first couple of turns, though, most of the Serpent's attacks aren't too threatening because of the +80 resistance, and even Piers' Wish is enough to heal everyone completely. The physical attacks are the real issue: Mighty Press can kill any character instantly and often kills Jenna and Sheba regardless if they aren't defending or protected by Shade. The Serpent's basic attack can also do massive damage to Jenna and Sheba. I'm thinking about using my backup save to grab better armor for the two of them, which might help.

I mean, the only thing to really do about Mighty Press is to win faster... Let's see. Jenna summons Meteor on Turn 1, that means Piers will have his four Djinn back at the end of Turn 5. From there, Felix summons Cybele and unleashes his three Djinn, finishing on Turn 9. Then Piers unleashes his four Djinn, finishes on Turn 13, and I can summon rush and kill the Serpent on Turn 14. That's a lot of chances for a Mighty Press if we can't find a faster way.

Edit4: I guess Luck increases could help reduce the chances of a Mighty Press, but I don't know how big the difference would be. It should be possible to get a Festival Coat right before the Serpent fight which gives a big Luck bonus, and a couple of Lucky Peppers than could give smaller bonuses, but I don't know if it makes enough of a difference that any of those would be worth the time.

On the other hand, now might be the time to try to solve the RNG entirely.

Edit5: Looking into things more carefully, the chances aren't as stacked as they seem; there's a lot more room for leeway past the beginning, since defenses are higher and Jenna and Sheba spend a lot of the time using Defend anyway. And with all that in mind, Mighty Press's KO rate isn't as high as it had seemed; it's just that it's so destructive at the beginning even with its normal damage.

I managed to reach the final summon turn once, but the Serpent ruined it by tossing out two Mighty Presses before any of my characters could act. Winning this fight under these conditions is definitely feasible, and my strategy does seem workable... it just takes time. I'll try more tomorrow. Of course, the really annoying thing is remembering that I'll have to do this all over again on the real run...

TheOthin

Edit history:

TheOthin: 2012-03-07 04:58:07 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-07 04:29:54 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-07 04:29:14 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-06 07:41:14 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-06 06:26:25 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-06 03:45:45 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-05 01:50:22 pm

TheOthin: 2012-03-04 10:07:15 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-04 10:06:53 am

TheOthin: 2012-03-04 10:06:52 am

2012-03-04 09:58:27 am

I decided to poke around a bit on another file and found that it's possible to skip most of Shrine of the Sea God. If you go left from the first room (along the route you would normally go), then go into Retreat mode and walk back into the first room, you wind up out-of-bounds in the second room. From here, you can walk around and go up and to the right to find a door that leads into the room with the statue. You can immediately walk from there to the stone circle, and if you have Reveal and the Sea God's Tear, you can complete the area immediately.

For getting Breath, which is probably for the best anyway, you can go to it normally, then go into Retreat mode while leaving the room to wind up in the same place outside the second room and progress to the end of the dungeon. This is what I plan to do on my run.

I was searching for a way to warp to the overworld near Madra from Kandorean Temple of Shrine of the Sea God, since that would certainly save time compared to walking to Dehkan Plateau for the warp. However, I wasn't able to find any warps that worked for that. However, since Dehkan Plateau already contains warps to Madra, I wonder if it might be faster to access them through a save warp. I'll test this next.

Edit: Doesn't seem like it.

Edit2: Bah. I reached the last turn; I know I can win under those conditions. Decided to forget the skip for the test run and just do it on the real run. Wound up costing 5 minutes to go through the dungeon instead of getting the Spirit Ring. I opted to only activate three lights; I tried it with two, but it still heals too fast to allow for any substantially different strategies. With three lights lit, I was able to have Piers take all the Mars Djinn and cast Wish every turn while I just summoned Cybele, Boreas, and Thor twice whenever it was feasible. Because I had some leeway, I was able to get away with letting Jenna get defeated; she hadn't used all her Mercury Djinn, so I had to have Piers summon Neptune the second time instead of Boreas, but it was enough anyway. I don't think this will be relevant for speedruns, just because skipping all the lights saves so much time (except on single-segment where it's just stupid), but it's worth noting.

Edit3: Say, how precise is the ingame timer? I know it keeps track of seconds, but between resets, is it any more accurate than that?

On an unrelated note, I was thinking about the different numbers of lights one could activate before the Serpent battle and their uses:

0 lights: Saves the most time in skipping basically all of Gaia Rock, but at the cost of sanity. Under speedrun conditions, I don't think it's possible to get better than 100:1 odds, even with any improvements. Also requires a Spirit Ring for speedruns, no way around it.

1 light: Pointless. It still heals fast enough that you can't do anything you wouldn't be able to do with no lights, and the first light is right next to the second, so ignoring the second saves little time anyway.

2 lights: I tried this briefly, but it still heals really damn fast. I couldn't find any real way to make the fight easier, at least not without the Spirit Ring, but there might be some possibility.

3 lights: Segmented runs shouldn't need more than this, and the fourth light is a bit out of the way. The Serpent still attacks a lot, but it doesn't heal much, so you have more options for a slower kill.

4 lights: Single-segment should just stick with this. With even one light left off, the Serpent still has all its offensive power, which is deadly enough even with the best strategies a speedrun might get away with.

Edit4: Avimander was easy. Jenna healed while the others summoned Cybele, Boreas, and Thor, then Neptune once the Djinn were available again. This boss shouldn't be an issue, especially since it often wastes time on useless stat-affecting spells.

Poseidon was much tougher this time. I wound up again focusing on summoning Meteor, but with just Wish for healing, I needed Piers and Felix to team up as healers. Using Felix was important, because he was slow enough to act after Poseidon's second turn, so he'd be able to respond to cast Wish and heal the damage from that hit immediately. Using Sheba resulted in two consecutive Wish castings, then taking two consecutive attacks from Poseidon, rather than alternating; this gave Poseidon much more opportunity to get kills. For some reason, this time, summoning Meteor three times wasn't enough, even with Jenna remaining conscious, so I had to add a Cybele summon early in the battle. This was a problem, since the Venus Djinn gave Jenna and Sheba more defensive classes to help them survive attacks, but I was able to work around it eventually by slowing down a bit.

I only got one Water of Life, which I needed in a few attempts, but I was able to hold onto it for the final, successful attempt. Which is nice, although I don't think I'll need it for the remainder of the game.

This will all be easier on runs with a Spirit Ring, of course. Seems to me the best strategy is still to have Felix and Piers spam group healing, but Felix can heal more and doesn't need to hold onto the valuable Mercury Djinn. Also he doesn't need to worry about PP; he had just barely enough for this strategy. (Ran out of PP just before the last turn, which was okay because Shade was a better option then anyway.)

Edit5: Got the Grindstone with 3:59 on the clock. That took a bit longer than I had hoped, but ah well. Sub-6:00 probably isn't happening on this test run, but I have no doubt that it's feasible on the real run - which is good, since I wasn't planning on submitting a run that wasn't sub-6:00.

Thinking more about the Serpent, I wonder about Mud. It might not take too long to get with the right timing; it's a bit out of the way, but it's right at the beginning of the dungeon and you can sanctum warp out. It would make the Serpent kill much faster, since summoning Cybele wouldn't be necessary; Felix could keep all the Venus Djinn on standby and use the Spirit Ring every turn, allowing for a kill as early as Turn 8. This would save a lot of my sanity, but I'm not sure how well justified the time cost is; getting Mud and the Spirit Ring is kinda costly. Regardless, if I can get it with a loss of ~3 minutes or less, I'll probably go for it. I'm fine with leaving the craziest shit to later runs, but I want to get that Gaia Rock skip somehow in the meantime.

I decided to poke around a bit on another file and found that it's possible to skip most of Shrine of the Sea God. If you go left from the first room (along the route you would normally go), then go into Retreat mode and walk back into the first room, you wind up out-of-bounds in the second room. From here, you can walk around and go up and to the right to find a door that leads into the room with the statue. You can immediately walk from there to the stone circle, and if you have Reveal and the Sea God's Tear, you can complete the area immediately.

For getting Breath, which is probably for the best anyway, you can go to it normally, then go into Retreat mode while leaving the room to wind up in the same place outside the second room and progress to the end of the dungeon. This is what I plan to do on my run.

I was searching for a way to warp to the overworld near Madra from Kandorean Temple of Shrine of the Sea God, since that would certainly save time compared to walking to Dehkan Plateau for the warp. However, I wasn't able to find any warps that worked for that. However, since Dehkan Plateau already contains warps to Madra, I wonder if it might be faster to access them through a save warp. I'll test this next.

Edit: Doesn't seem like it.

Edit2: Bah. I reached the last turn; I know I can win under those conditions. Decided to forget the skip for the test run and just do it on the real run. Wound up costing 5 minutes to go through the dungeon instead of getting the Spirit Ring. I opted to only activate three lights; I tried it with two, but it still heals too fast to allow for any substantially different strategies. With three lights lit, I was able to have Piers take all the Mars Djinn and cast Wish every turn while I just summoned Cybele, Boreas, and Thor twice whenever it was feasible. Because I had some leeway, I was able to get away with letting Jenna get defeated; she hadn't used all her Mercury Djinn, so I had to have Piers summon Neptune the second time instead of Boreas, but it was enough anyway. I don't think this will be relevant for speedruns, just because skipping all the lights saves so much time (except on single-segment where it's just stupid), but it's worth noting.

Edit3: Say, how precise is the ingame timer? I know it keeps track of seconds, but between resets, is it any more accurate than that?

On an unrelated note, I was thinking about the different numbers of lights one could activate before the Serpent battle and their uses:

0 lights: Saves the most time in skipping basically all of Gaia Rock, but at the cost of sanity. Under speedrun conditions, I don't think it's possible to get better than 100:1 odds, even with any improvements. Also requires a Spirit Ring for speedruns, no way around it.

1 light: Pointless. It still heals fast enough that you can't do anything you wouldn't be able to do with no lights, and the first light is right next to the second, so ignoring the second saves little time anyway.

2 lights: I tried this briefly, but it still heals really damn fast. I couldn't find any real way to make the fight easier, at least not without the Spirit Ring, but there might be some possibility.

3 lights: Segmented runs shouldn't need more than this, and the fourth light is a bit out of the way. The Serpent still attacks a lot, but it doesn't heal much, so you have more options for a slower kill.

4 lights: Single-segment should just stick with this. With even one light left off, the Serpent still has all its offensive power, which is deadly enough even with the best strategies a speedrun might get away with.

Edit4: Avimander was easy. Jenna healed while the others summoned Cybele, Boreas, and Thor, then Neptune once the Djinn were available again. This boss shouldn't be an issue, especially since it often wastes time on useless stat-affecting spells.

Poseidon was much tougher this time. I wound up again focusing on summoning Meteor, but with just Wish for healing, I needed Piers and Felix to team up as healers. Using Felix was important, because he was slow enough to act after Poseidon's second turn, so he'd be able to respond to cast Wish and heal the damage from that hit immediately. Using Sheba resulted in two consecutive Wish castings, then taking two consecutive attacks from Poseidon, rather than alternating; this gave Poseidon much more opportunity to get kills. For some reason, this time, summoning Meteor three times wasn't enough, even with Jenna remaining conscious, so I had to add a Cybele summon early in the battle. This was a problem, since the Venus Djinn gave Jenna and Sheba more defensive classes to help them survive attacks, but I was able to work around it eventually by slowing down a bit.

I only got one Water of Life, which I needed in a few attempts, but I was able to hold onto it for the final, successful attempt. Which is nice, although I don't think I'll need it for the remainder of the game.

This will all be easier on runs with a Spirit Ring, of course. Seems to me the best strategy is still to have Felix and Piers spam group healing, but Felix can heal more and doesn't need to hold onto the valuable Mercury Djinn. Also he doesn't need to worry about PP; he had just barely enough for this strategy. (Ran out of PP just before the last turn, which was okay because Shade was a better option then anyway.)

Edit5: Got the Grindstone with 3:59 on the clock. That took a bit longer than I had hoped, but ah well. Sub-6:00 probably isn't happening on this test run, but I have no doubt that it's feasible on the real run - which is good, since I wasn't planning on submitting a run that wasn't sub-6:00.

Thinking more about the Serpent, I wonder about Mud. It might not take too long to get with the right timing; it's a bit out of the way, but it's right at the beginning of the dungeon and you can sanctum warp out. It would make the Serpent kill much faster, since summoning Cybele wouldn't be necessary; Felix could keep all the Venus Djinn on standby and use the Spirit Ring every turn, allowing for a kill as early as Turn 8. This would save a lot of my sanity, but I'm not sure how well justified the time cost is; getting Mud and the Spirit Ring is kinda costly. Regardless, if I can get it with a loss of ~3 minutes or less, I'll probably go for it. I'm fine with leaving the craziest shit to later runs, but I want to get that Gaia Rock skip somehow in the meantime.

Cerpin

2012-04-02 08:14:31 am

Not sure if you know about this/there's a faster way to get there, but... In Dehkan Plateau from the back, if you go right, down 2 sets of stairs, warp, down, right, up, warp via the door, and then warp via the middle top hole in the area that sends you to, you can fall right on top of the Djinn.

TheOthin

Edit history:

TheOthin: 2012-04-07 01:15:30 pm

TheOthin: 2012-04-07 01:15:01 pm

2012-04-07 01:14:16 pm

Quote from Cerpin:

Not sure if you know about this/there's a faster way to get there, but... In Dehkan Plateau from the back, if you go right, down 2 sets of stairs, warp, down, right, up, warp via the door, and then warp via the middle top hole in the area that sends you to, you can fall right on top of the Djinn.

Retreat warps? I've been using a similar route without using any warps at all. I'll have to look into this, but it doesn't sound necessary.

I don't remember the details enough to tell how well the two routes line up, though. I haven't been working on this due to frustration with Moapa. Turns out he kills you really fast at low levels, and I haven't been able to figure out much to do about it.

Manocheese

2012-04-07 03:54:41 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Here's some advice from my notes for the run I was working on. First, you will get any items used in Trial Road or during the battle back, so don't worry about wasting Waters of Life or Psy Crystals. Make sure Sheba has a Psy Crystal. Give Waters of Life to Jenna, then Felix, then Piers. In Trial Road, ditch the weapons of Sheba, Jenna, and Piers plus a defensive item of Felix or Piers, depending on who needs it less. My Djinn configuration was as follows:

Jenna: Fog, Spring, Chill, Steam
Felix: Echo (standby), Cannon, Reflux
Piers: Iron, Steel, Shade
Sheba: Breath, Blitz, Waft, Wheeze

Each Knight has 2 Bramble Seeds and Moapa has 3 Crystal Powders. Once those are gone, it will be much easier to survive. Start with Wish Well, Mercury (Moapa), Shade, Impact (Felix), then use Defend, Defend, Defend, Defend. After the second turn, Piers will get Shade back. Repeat that two-turn pattern once more and Felix's attack will be at its maximum. From then on, he should cast Planet Diver (Moapa) and Sheba should use Mercury. Other than that, keep repeating the same two-turn pattern until the offensive items are gone (but cast Impact on Felix once in a while to prevent it from expiring. I forget how many turns it takes). Once that happens, Jenna should use Wish Well every turn. Felix should use Planet Diver or Echo. Piers should use Shade, Venus, or Mercury. Sheba should use Wheeze (Knight1), Jupiter, Venus, or Impact (Felix). Once Moapa is dead, you have some options for finishing off the Knights. If you were lucky, Wheeze will have poisoned one of them, so they will die on their own pretty quickly. Other than that, it might be a good idea to use higher-level summons (possibly Eclipse).

Here's some advice from my notes for the run I was working on. First, you will get any items used in Trial Road or during the battle back, so don't worry about wasting Waters of Life or Psy Crystals. Make sure Sheba has a Psy Crystal. Give Waters of Life to Jenna, then Felix, then Piers. In Trial Road, ditch the weapons of Sheba, Jenna, and Piers plus a defensive item of Felix or Piers, depending on who needs it less. My Djinn configuration was as follows:

Jenna: Fog, Spring, Chill, Steam
Felix: Echo (standby), Cannon, Reflux
Piers: Iron, Steel, Shade
Sheba: Breath, Blitz, Waft, Wheeze

Each Knight has 2 Bramble Seeds and Moapa has 3 Crystal Powders. Once those are gone, it will be much easier to survive. Start with Wish Well, Mercury (Moapa), Shade, Impact (Felix), then use Defend, Defend, Defend, Defend. After the second turn, Piers will get Shade back. Repeat that two-turn pattern once more and Felix's attack will be at its maximum. From then on, he should cast Planet Diver (Moapa) and Sheba should use Mercury. Other than that, keep repeating the same two-turn pattern until the offensive items are gone (but cast Impact on Felix once in a while to prevent it from expiring. I forget how many turns it takes). Once that happens, Jenna should use Wish Well every turn. Felix should use Planet Diver or Echo. Piers should use Shade, Venus, or Mercury. Sheba should use Wheeze (Knight1), Jupiter, Venus, or Impact (Felix). Once Moapa is dead, you have some options for finishing off the Knights. If you were lucky, Wheeze will have poisoned one of them, so they will die on their own pretty quickly. Other than that, it might be a good idea to use higher-level summons (possibly Eclipse).

LinkTheValiant

2012-04-08 01:16:28 am

May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce

Quote:

(but cast Impact on Felix once in a while to prevent it from expiring. I forget how many turns it takes.)

It lasts five turns after the one in which it was cast. (Six ends-of-turn after being cast.)

Cerpin

2012-04-11 07:33:48 am

The retreat warp route lets you skip the Madra intro cutscene by sanctum warping there after you get the Djinn. I'd say that's worth it...

Manocheese

2012-04-11 01:24:44 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I think you can do that anyway if you save right when you enter and then sanctum warp.

TheOthin

2012-04-11 06:31:02 pm

Quote from Manocheese:

I think you can do that anyway if you save right when you enter and then sanctum warp.

Indeed. I just go in from the front, take the warp to South Indra, enter/exit Madra, then turn around and head back to Dehkan Plateau. Then from there I go right and proceed backwards until I get the Pound Cube, then go ahead again to get the Djinn and sanctum warp to Madra.

Anyway, I'm just talking about the part when proceeding from the back, after retreat warping to Madra in the first place. That's definitely a good warp; it's just the warps within the area while entering from the back that I'm unsure about. The route doesn't sound any faster, and wasting PP to retreat warp can take time. Cerpin, do you have a video of this?

---

Manocheese, I intend to see if I can get something to work using your strategy, but I feel like the lower levels will still be a problem. It requires letting them get a turn at 50% power and a turn at 40% power, adding up to taking the damage of 90% of a turn each time between heals. Also, for each two-turn cycle of that, you're not doing a whole lot: Mercury plus one other action. That sounds slow, which in addition to time concerns offers a lot of opportunities to die, at least I think it would at my levels. So I may have to make some modifications when I get back to trying this myself.

[quote="Manocheese"]I think you can do that anyway if you save right when you enter and then sanctum warp.[/quote]
Indeed. I just go in from the front, take the warp to South Indra, enter/exit Madra, then turn around and head back to Dehkan Plateau. Then from there I go right and proceed backwards until I get the Pound Cube, then go ahead again to get the Djinn and sanctum warp to Madra.

Anyway, I'm just talking about the part when proceeding from the back, after retreat warping to Madra in the first place. That's definitely a good warp; it's just the warps within the area while entering from the back that I'm unsure about. The route doesn't sound any faster, and wasting PP to retreat warp can take time. Cerpin, do you have a video of this?

---

Manocheese, I intend to see if I can get something to work using your strategy, but I feel like the lower levels will still be a problem. It requires letting them get a turn at 50% power and a turn at 40% power, adding up to taking the damage of 90% of a turn each time between heals. Also, for each two-turn cycle of that, you're not doing a whole lot: Mercury plus one other action. That sounds slow, which in addition to time concerns offers a lot of opportunities to die, at least I think it would at my levels. So I may have to make some modifications when I get back to trying this myself.

wersterlobe

2012-04-12 01:44:16 am

Just made a video real quick, no sound cause I'm dumb:

Manocheese

2012-04-12 12:01:06 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Nice. I didn't know about the stuff around 1:25.

Cerpin

2012-04-12 01:42:04 pm

Suss

Your PP should be pretty low anyway...

TheOthin

2012-04-12 05:21:20 pm

Okay, that's definitely faster. Great find!

EllomenoP

2012-06-26 03:14:39 pm

Not sure how dead these topics are but I've started attempting to speedrun GS:TLA. My gaps in basic knowledge are quite large because I havent played the game through since my childhood but that should change soon. I've been working on beating briggs as fast as possible hoping to race it with someone, and my current time is 39 minutes. sub 35 is definitely possible because I had bad luck manipulating the RNGs for weasel claws in my 39 minute run.

As for Delkan Plateau I think the 3 warp method for the Pound cube is a waste. If you enter from the back and go up the left side you can walk straight there because the cutscene never played and thus never weakened the pillar.

I havent spent much time thinking about getting a run together like Othin but that would be the next step. I would love for this topic to continue as it was my primary research tool and it allowed me to learn the first part of a run in 3 days.

EllomenoP

2012-06-26 03:17:22 pm

Double post but i just realized it was werster who posted that other stuff. Ive been trying to contact you on srl just to ask you about your routing for the defeat briggs races. Maybe we can race it sometime.

EllomenoP

2012-06-27 03:42:56 pm

I've decided I will just spam this topic with my comments on my current any% run with the hope i can resurrect it and maybe Othin will return and help plan.

Ive been doing a test run using your route Othin and it seems pretty well thought out. I just finished beating the Serpent and at first I had trouble beating him without all 4 lights, but I just beat him with 3. I tried following your meteor rush strategy and it didnt work very good for me mainly because keeping all the djinni in standby reduces your stats so much its hard to stay alive.

With the help of a guy named Brolf_pog I've made a strategy that works extremely well and has only limited dependence on spirit ring. Its fairly slow but for SS i think it would be the best choice by far. I have all the djinni you planned in your route up to this point and my current levels are 18/17/21/17.

The strategy relies primarily on letting piers do the damage through jupiter djinnis and thor while jenna is the healer and felix buffs defense and add damage (to cover what he heals up) and sheba spams steam / shade then sets them the turn after (2 steams then spams shade rather). I have everyone in their base classes except sheba and piers who have all their djinnis switched. I start with all djinni set and then do this:

Jenna: Aura
Felix: Iron
Piers: Blitz
Sheba: Steam

Jenna: Healing Aura
Felix: set Iron
Piers: Wheeze
Sheba: set Steam

Jenna: Healing Aura
Felix: Iron
Piers: Breath if someone has been focused (usually i do this) or Waft
Sheba: Steam

Jenna: Healing Aura
Felix: set Iron
Piers: last djinni still set
Sheba: set Steam

Then i transition into second phase where piers is recovering and felix prevents the serpent from healing too much. Usually i continue to spam healing aura with jenna and then auto attack with felix with lightning sword (he also has thorn crown and war gloves at this point not sure how much that matters). As for Piers he defends first turn then starts using all his djinnis again and then sheba casts impact on felix then starts spamming and setting shade. Barring early Mighty Press OHKOs this setup should be able to last basically forever as everyone base stats are high enough to survive attacks with the defense and resist buffs. I also recast Iron and Steam if they wear off obviously. I think it took 3 Thors to win and if you keep track off approximate damage you can just djinni rush him at the end if things turn bad (he OHKOs Jenna for instance). Additionally i keep spirit ring on jenna so she can use it once her PP runs out. I also carry a psy crystal on piers so he can use it the turn after thor so I dont rely on spirit ring not breaking.

Anyways hopefully I see people come back to this thread and ill give an update when i get to posiedon.

I've decided I will just spam this topic with my comments on my current any% run with the hope i can resurrect it and maybe Othin will return and help plan.

Ive been doing a test run using your route Othin and it seems pretty well thought out.  I just finished beating the Serpent and at first I had trouble beating him without all 4 lights, but I just beat him with 3.  I tried following your meteor rush strategy and it didnt work very good for me mainly because keeping all the djinni in standby reduces your stats so much its hard to stay alive.

With the help of a guy named Brolf_pog I've made a strategy that works extremely well and has only limited dependence on spirit ring.  Its fairly slow but for SS i think it would be the best choice by far.  I have all the djinni you planned in your route up to this point and my current levels are 18/17/21/17.

The strategy relies primarily on letting piers do the damage through jupiter djinnis and thor while jenna is the healer and felix buffs defense and add damage (to cover what he heals up) and sheba spams steam / shade then sets them the turn after (2 steams then spams shade rather).  I have everyone in their base classes except sheba and piers who have all their djinnis switched.  I start with all djinni set and then do this:

Jenna: Aura
Felix: Iron
Piers: Blitz
Sheba: Steam

Jenna: Healing Aura
Felix: set Iron
Piers: Wheeze
Sheba: set Steam

Jenna: Healing Aura
Felix: Iron
Piers: Breath if someone has been focused (usually i do this) or Waft
Sheba: Steam

Jenna: Healing Aura
Felix: set Iron
Piers: last djinni still set
Sheba: set Steam

Then i transition into second phase where piers is recovering and felix prevents the serpent from healing too much.  Usually i continue to spam healing aura with jenna and then auto attack with felix with lightning sword (he also has thorn crown and war gloves at this point not sure how much that matters).  As for Piers he defends first turn then starts using all his djinnis again and then sheba casts impact on felix then starts spamming and setting shade.  Barring early Mighty Press OHKOs this setup should be able to last basically forever as everyone base stats are high enough to survive attacks with the defense and resist buffs.  I also recast Iron and Steam if they wear off obviously.  I think it took 3 Thors to win and if you keep track off approximate damage you can just djinni rush him at the end if things turn bad (he OHKOs Jenna for instance).  Additionally i keep spirit ring on jenna so she can use it once her PP runs out.  I also carry a psy crystal on piers so he can use it the turn after thor so I dont rely on spirit ring not breaking.

Anyways hopefully I see people come back to this thread and ill give an update when i get to posiedon.

wersterlobe

2012-06-27 04:08:57 pm

yoyoyo! I would totally race you at golden sun 2 when i get the time champ, currently working them 12-14 hour days so i dont get much time for video games, and all of it at the moment is dedicated to pokemon. Hit me up in a few months and i will race this game every day with you though, i eventually want to do a 100% SS of this game (in like 2-3 years after ive done a lot of other stuff)