Golden Sun (Sub 4 Hours????)

2010-01-27 09:23:08 am

There's a word for that

It was just an example, but in that case let's see how the other elements stack up in terms of immobilising the gladiators:

For Fire: Scorch (Stun)/Fever (Delusion)/Torch (Piercing)
Don't know how long Stun lasts, but this might work, if Delusion can make later attacks miss.

Water: Mist (Sleep)/Sleet (Lowers Atk)/Hail (Lowers Def)
Lowered Attack should mean you can survive two hits again, Sleep is good but Hail is pretty useless.

Wind: Squall (Stun)/Smog (Delusion)/Gust (Random 2x damage)
Similar to Wind, except that Gust is better than Torch; it might be able to do enough damage so that only 2 Djinn need to be used for the Lv4 summon to do enough, in which case it should be used first for maximum damage.

Looks like it's a matter of Stun vs Sleep. The Vulcan Axe's unleash won't help any with Djinn attack damage, but it shouldn't be too weak to make a large difference.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2010-01-27 11:26:11 pm

2010-01-27 02:12:27 pm

Catchin' them all

Unless I'm forgetting something (haven't played in a while...), doesn't Isaac like have only the equipment he gets from the colloseum itself? So stuff like Claymore etc.

FlamingMage

2010-01-27 06:18:28 pm

You are correct sir. Good call.

FlamingMage

2010-02-07 05:41:47 pm

Bumpity bump.

Um...3:21 in front of Venus Lighthouse 1? Sorry for the slow pace, I've just been trying to find every possible timesaver. There's a short Retreat-warp in Suhulla gate that saves perhaps 10 seconds, and one in Babi lighthouse that speeds up getting the djinn quite a bit.

I had originally intended to time both paths in Venus Lighthouse 2, but judging by the fact that one of them is 3 long puzzles and the other is two short ones, there's really no need. I still need to RNG two feathered robes, one spiked armor, and two k-swords...

Interesting fun fact; Ivan's regular attack did 4 damage to Dew Tongue

Underleveled FTW.

FlamingMage

Edit history:

FlamingMage: 2010-02-17 07:07:52 am

2010-02-16 09:40:51 am

I've now spent more than twice as long as I will running the game trying to RNG a Feathered Robe. I think the game is quite simply denying me; I understand the RNG process, that isn't the problem. I've gotten a griffin to DP on the 31 RN, and twice on the 27, but never do I get my robe. Is anyone out there an expert with RNGs?

EDIT: Yeah, I'm giving up. Last night I got three more 31 kills, none of which "worked" I'm beginning to think that either the location is not working or that there's a level cap on drops.

Nitrodon

2010-02-17 11:55:30 am

I would like to help with this RNG problem you seem to be having. I would probably need to know your stats, equipment, djinni, and instructions on how to duplicate your attempts. A save/savestate would be great, but I can always just find one online for whichever area you're in and hack it. Hopefully, I should be able to figure out why the item isn't dropping.

FlamingMage

2010-02-17 04:32:53 pm

Sounds great, I'll post the simplest one;

Levels: 14/14/14/15
Djinn: 5/7/5/5
Equipment:
Isaac: Vulcan Axe, nothing else significant.
Garet: Great Axe, nothing else significant.
Ivan: Shaman Rod, Elven Shirt, nothing else significant.
Mia: Starting equipment, so nothing that matters.

Location: In Venus Lighthouse 2. The room you want to save in is the room that changes depending on which path is active; You'll save on a tiny ledge, three squares long and one wide, with a door on it. Hard reset, then leave the room, then reenter and run around on the tiny platform.

Route;

Djinn Setup:
Isaac: 0/3/3/0, all set.
Garet: 4/0/2/0, all Venus standby (He has to have Squall too)
Ivan: 0/1/0/4, all set.
Mia: 1/3/0/1, Venus standby.

Battle:
Orc Lord and Wild Gryphon Appeared! (+1 RN, 1 total)
Ivan casts Wish! (+8 RN, 9 total)
Isaac casts Death Plunge! (+2 RN, 11 total)
Mia casts Deluge! (+4 RN, 15 total)
Garet casts Astral Blast! (+2 RN, 17 total)
Round two begins! (+2 RN, 19 total)
Ivan casts Plasma! (+4 RN, 23 total)
Isaac casts Thunderclap! (+4 RN, 27 total)
Mia is defending...
Garet unleashes Squall! (+3 RN, 30 total)
You felled Wild Gryphon! (+1 RN, 31 total)

This is a modification of the classic "Four attack psyergies and a group heal" RNG method, to increase damage. Every attack except for the Plasma is targeted at the Gryphon. With this setup, Garet has plenty of Jupiter Power to get the DP Djinn tri-flash.

Sounds great, I'll post the simplest one;

Levels: 14/14/14/15 
Djinn: 5/7/5/5
Equipment: 
Isaac: Vulcan Axe, nothing else significant.
Garet: Great Axe, nothing else significant.
Ivan: Shaman Rod, Elven Shirt, nothing else significant. 
Mia: Starting equipment, so nothing that matters.

Location: In Venus Lighthouse 2. The room you want to save in is the room that changes depending on which path is active; You'll save on a tiny ledge, three squares long and one wide, with a door on it. Hard reset, then leave the room, then reenter and run around on the tiny platform.

Route;

Djinn Setup:
Isaac: 0/3/3/0, all set. 
Garet: 4/0/2/0, all Venus standby (He has to have Squall too)
Ivan: 0/1/0/4, all set.
Mia: 1/3/0/1, Venus standby.

Battle:
Orc Lord and Wild Gryphon Appeared! (+1 RN, 1 total)
Ivan casts Wish! (+8 RN, 9 total)
Isaac casts Death Plunge! (+2 RN, 11 total)
Mia casts Deluge! (+4 RN, 15 total)
Garet casts Astral Blast! (+2 RN, 17 total)
Round two begins! (+2 RN, 19 total)
Ivan casts Plasma! (+4 RN, 23 total)
Isaac casts Thunderclap! (+4 RN, 27 total)
Mia is defending...
Garet unleashes Squall! (+3 RN, 30 total)
You felled Wild Gryphon! (+1 RN, 31 total)

This is a modification of the classic "Four attack psyergies and a group heal" RNG method, to increase damage. Every attack except for the Plasma is targeted at the Gryphon. With this setup, Garet has plenty of Jupiter Power to get the DP Djinn tri-flash.

Nitrodon

Edit history:

Nitrodon: 2010-02-17 11:14:30 pm

2010-02-17 11:07:52 pm

I managed to reach the area you mentioned. The first problem I can see is that Deluge is learned at level 30. Did you mean Drench, or something else? (This detail may or may not matter, since I'm not familiar with how Golden Sun's RNG works yet.)

Also, how should I kill the Orc Lord after the Wild Gryphon dies?

FlamingMage

2010-02-18 05:32:01 am

Yeah, I meant drench Grin

It doesn't matter what you do with the orc lord. The RNG has already done its job.

Nitrodon

2010-02-18 11:36:32 am

I figured out where the RNG is, so I'm going to step through the battle now and write stuff as I go.

Orc Lord and Wild Gryphon appeared! (+1 RN)
Ivan casts Wish!
Isaac's HP is fully restored! (+2 RN)
Garet's HP is fully restored! (+2 RN)
Ivan's HP is fully restored! (+2 RN)
Mia's HP is fully restored! (+2 RN)
Isaac casts Death Plunge!
Wild Gryphon takes 110 damage! (+2 RN)
Mia casts Drench!
Orc Lord takes 52 damage! (+2 RN)
Wild Gryphon takes 61 damage! (+2 RN)
Garet casts Astral Blast!
Wild Gryphon takes 71 damage! (+2 RN)
Wild Gryphon attacks! (+3 RN)
Ivan takes 131 damage! (+5 RN)
Ivan casts Plasma!
Orc Lord takes 52 damage! (+2 RN)
Wild Gryphon takes 47 damage! (+2 RN)
Isaac casts Thunderclap!
Orc Lord takes 45 damage! (+2 RN)
Wild Gryphon takes 63 damage! (+2 RN)
Mia is defending!
Garet unleashes Squall!
Wild Gryphon takes 49 damage! (+3 RN)
You felled Wild Gryphon! (+1 RN)

I put the problem area in bold text.

Also of note: I was in my debugging emulator anyway, so I hacked the last RN check to be successful. As a result, the Feathered Robe dropped. This shows that there isn't a level cap on drops or anything like that.

I figured out where the RNG is, so I'm going to step through the battle now and write stuff as I go.

Orc Lord and Wild Gryphon appeared! (+1 RN)
Ivan casts Wish!
Isaac's HP is fully restored! (+2 RN)
Garet's HP is fully restored! (+2 RN)
Ivan's HP is fully restored! (+2 RN)
Mia's HP is fully restored! (+2 RN)
Isaac casts Death Plunge!
Wild Gryphon takes 110 damage! (+2 RN)
Mia casts Drench!
Orc Lord takes 52 damage! (+2 RN)
Wild Gryphon takes 61 damage! (+2 RN)
Garet casts Astral Blast!
Wild Gryphon takes 71 damage! (+2 RN)
[b]Wild Gryphon attacks! (+3 RN)
Ivan takes 131 damage! (+5 RN)[/b]
Ivan casts Plasma!
Orc Lord takes 52 damage! (+2 RN)
Wild Gryphon takes 47 damage! (+2 RN)
Isaac casts Thunderclap!
Orc Lord takes 45 damage! (+2 RN)
Wild Gryphon takes 63 damage! (+2 RN)
Mia is defending!
Garet unleashes Squall!
Wild Gryphon takes 49 damage! (+3 RN)
You felled Wild Gryphon! (+1 RN)

I put the problem area in bold text.

Also of note: I was in my debugging emulator anyway, so I hacked the last RN check to be successful.  As a result, the Feathered Robe dropped.  This shows that there isn't a level cap on drops or anything like that.

mike89

2010-02-18 01:01:58 pm

SEGA Junkie

Why did the Gryphon attack? The first battle after a save, your party always gets "Attacks first".

Incidentally, with that considered, why did the Orc Lord not attack?

Nitrodon

2010-02-18 01:19:08 pm

The party did indeed attack first. The Wild Gryphon attacked at the beginning of the second round. As for your other question, the Orc Lord attacked at the end of the second round, after the Wild Gryphon died (and thus after anything relevant to the Feathered Robe drop).

FlamingMage

2010-02-18 01:36:42 pm

Wow...In GS:TLA I'm pretty sure each enemy only adds 1 RN at the start of each round, but now I see that is erroneous. Would you mind helping me find a RNG that works? Once I get the three RNG methods I need, nothing will stop me from getting to the dragon.

Nitrodon

Edit history:

Nitrodon: 2010-02-18 03:53:09 pm

2010-02-18 01:51:37 pm

I haven't checked the details, but I assume one of those RNs was from the Gryphon deciding to attack (as opposed to some other action).

Yes, I would be willing to help reach the correct RNG state to get these item drops.

EDIT: My first successful attempt. Everything targets Wild Gryphon unless stated otherwise.

Orc Lord and Wild Gryphon appear! (+1 RN)
Ivan casts Plasma! (+4 RN, 5 total)
Isaac casts Death Plunge! (+2 RN, 7 total)
Wild Gryphon has been stunned!
Mia casts Drench! (+4 RN, 11 total)
Garet casts Astral Blast! (targeting Orc Lord) (+2 RN, 13 total)
Round two starts (+1 RN, 14 total)
Wild Gryphon is paralyzed and cannot move!
Ivan casts Plasma! (+4 RN, 18 total)
Isaac casts Death Plunge! (targeting Orc Lord) (+2 RN, 20 total)
You felled Orc Lord! (+1 RN, 21 total)
Mia casts Drench! (+2 RN, 23 total)
Garet unleashes Squall! (+3 RN, 26 total)
You felled Wild Gryphon! (+1 RN, 27 total)
Orc Lord's party goes down!
You got 678 experience points.
You got 575 coins.
You got a Feathered Robe.

I haven't checked the details, but I assume one of those RNs was from the Gryphon deciding to attack (as opposed to some other action).

Yes, I would be willing to help reach the correct RNG state to get these item drops.

EDIT: My first successful attempt. Everything targets Wild Gryphon unless stated otherwise.

Orc Lord and Wild Gryphon appear! (+1 RN)
Ivan casts Plasma! (+4 RN, 5 total)
Isaac casts Death Plunge! (+2 RN, 7 total)
Wild Gryphon has been stunned!
Mia casts Drench! (+4 RN, 11 total)
Garet casts Astral Blast! (targeting Orc Lord) (+2 RN, 13 total)
Round two starts (+1 RN, 14 total)
Wild Gryphon is paralyzed and cannot move!
Ivan casts Plasma! (+4 RN, 18 total)
Isaac casts Death Plunge! (targeting Orc Lord) (+2 RN, 20 total)
You felled Orc Lord! (+1 RN, 21 total)
Mia casts Drench! (+2 RN, 23 total)
Garet unleashes Squall! (+3 RN, 26 total)
You felled Wild Gryphon! (+1 RN, 27 total)
Orc Lord's party goes down!
You got 678 experience points.
You got 575 coins.
You got a Feathered Robe.

FlamingMage

Edit history:

FlamingMage: 2010-02-18 07:32:06 pm

2010-02-18 07:26:33 pm

Awesome, thanks! Care to do one for Chimera Mages and Fenrirs? Wink

Man, I really wish I was running on an emulator. Being able to see the RN's would help so much.

EDIT: It doesn't work...The only difference I can detect is that, in my game, Ivan acts before the Gryphon second turn. Is that it? (probably because we have different Djinn assigned to each person, and the infinitesimal changes in stat boosts sped him past the Gryphon.)

Nitrodon

2010-02-19 12:02:14 am

Indeed, my Ivan has 162 agility, and going back to pick up Dew increases that to 171 (compared to the Gryphon's 170). Still, I don't see how the turn order would affect anything in this case. Does everything die at the same time?

FlamingMage

2010-02-19 02:52:06 pm

Yup. Everything is identical, I didn't think that turn order would matte but I wanted to mention it. Are you doing this in the same room I was in before? Shouldn't matter, but then again if we're talking shoulds I should have that damn robe.

LinkTheValiant

2010-02-26 01:56:23 pm

May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce

I checked through the thread, and I didn't see any specific mention of this, so I thought I'd put it in. This is quoted from Link Kirby's RNG guide in the TLA section at GameFAQs:

"When killing the monster on RN 31. . ., there has to be a difference of AT LEAST
38 between the unleasher's Power and the enemy's Resistance for the enemy to
flash."

Not sure whether or not this is the issue, but given that it sounds like you're doing everything else right, I think this is a likely reason you're not getting it.

The only difference in mechanics between TBS and TLA is that the RNG for choosing battles is different. In-battle the RNG is identical.

As to Colloso, I hadn't considered using Mist. You're right, that would definitely be worthwhile if that sets up a Boreas summon. No Nut usage FTW. The main problem I see with that is that you won't get the boost to Earth power you would need for the base class portion of the battle.

FlamingMage

Edit history:

FlamingMage: 2010-03-11 07:44:52 pm

2010-03-11 06:58:29 pm

My power is high enough, but I'm not sure if it dips too low after unleashing the Djinn. Does anyone have the facts on that?

I've started another practice run, a more correct and accurate one. If I manage to finish the game with this one, the next run will be recorded. Currently, I'm at :49 right before fighting the thieves. I think I could cut about 30 seconds total from this time...45 sec is doubtful? I'm not nitpicking tiny mistakes, but this run should still be pretty much near the fastest possible.

Segment 1: saves in the entrance room of Sol Sanctum
Segment 2: saves shortly after placing the first eye
Segment 3: saves after getting the second eye
Segment 4: saves in the room before the thieves.

Updates will come when they do. My other run will remain where it is until someone can get the RNG to work.

EDIT:

Segment 5: saves on the first bridge towards Goma
Segment 6: saves in the second room in Goma Cave
Segment 7: saves after moving pillar and jumping gap
Segment 8: saves in front of mars Djinn
Segment 9: saves after getting the Elven Rapier
Segment 10: saves after the second battle in Bilbin Cave
Segment 11: saves in Imil overworld area
Segment 12: saves right before lizard man battle.

Current time after segment 12: 1:06.

My power is high enough, but I'm not sure if it dips too low after unleashing the Djinn. Does anyone have the facts on that?

I've started another practice run, a more correct and accurate one. If I manage to finish the game with this one, the next run will be recorded. Currently, I'm at :49 right before fighting the thieves. I think I could cut about 30 seconds total from this time...45 sec is doubtful? I'm not nitpicking tiny mistakes, but this run should still be pretty much near the fastest possible.

Segment 1: saves in the entrance room of Sol Sanctum
Segment 2: saves shortly after placing the first eye
Segment 3: saves after getting the second eye 
Segment 4: saves in the room before the thieves.

Updates will come when they do. My other run will remain where it is until someone can get the RNG to work.

EDIT:

Segment 5: saves on the first bridge towards Goma
Segment 6: saves in the second room in Goma Cave
Segment 7: saves after moving pillar and jumping gap
Segment 8: saves in front of mars Djinn
Segment 9: saves after getting the Elven Rapier
Segment 10: saves after the second battle in Bilbin Cave
Segment 11: saves in Imil overworld area
Segment 12: saves right before lizard man battle.

Current time after segment 12: 1:06.

FionordeQuester

2010-03-11 09:54:53 pm

By the way, I actually know of a guy who did a challenge for this game where he used a no experience code for every monster in the game except boss battles, and came up with strategies that were always guaranteed to work, no matter what. Would that be useful in anyway?

FlamingMage

2010-03-12 05:15:44 am

His doom dragon strategy would help out a ton. He did finish the game, is what you're saying?

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2010-03-13 10:44:55 am

2010-03-12 02:17:01 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

If we're thinking of the same person, here are some of his videos:

No-experience boss battles

Low-level boss battles (probably irrelevant)

And while I'm linking things,

100% run

FlamingMage

2010-03-12 04:53:16 pm

I've watched the 100% run, I wish I could have gained more from it but our tactics diverge drastically. The other video's are very interesting tho, and definitely give me hope for this run.

LOL at your sig. Glad he's gone.

FionordeQuester

2010-03-13 02:26:49 am

Actually, the person I was thinking of was different. He actually allowed himself to gain experience when he was fighting the bosses. As a matter of fact, here's a link for where you can get it...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2DF0GFHV

Hope that helps.

FlamingMage

Edit history:

FlamingMage: 2010-04-02 04:25:52 pm

2010-04-02 03:40:57 pm

An incredibly boring update.

Segment 13: saves in the room where I RNG Crystal Powders.
Segment 14: RNG...
Segment 15: RNG...
Segment 16: RNG...
Segment 17: RNG...
Segment 18: RNG...
Segment 19: RNG...

Time is 1:14.

I'm going to try and beat Saturos with just this. I'm level 5/5/6/10, and unoptomistic. I'll edit this post after I've figured out if I need to get more powders/levels.

Edit: I beat him a turn after Isaac died. This makes it clear that six crystal powders is (difficultly) possible. I'll go ahead and actually speed up to/past him. I estimate about 1:24 after him. We shall see Tongue