Getting Super Famicom to work on European CRT

2015-02-04 08:42:02 am

Hi!

I recently (without thinkig it through much) bought myself a Super Famicom. It came with a european power adapter that just worked out of the box, and with a Nintendo AV-cable (composite) that works fine on my flat screen TV.

Then someone on IRC pointed out the obvious, that converting the TV signals from analog to digital adds delay, and that using a CRT is noticeably better. Soo, I want that. I want noticeably better.

Now, before I "go ham" and buy lots of shit and hope it will work, could someone help me by clarifying a couple of things?

1. Will using a SCART-cable be as efficient, in terms of input-lag, as using S-video? Does it perhaps depend on the type the SCART-cable; RGB, composite etc.? I'm not sure all CRTs in Norway will have S-video inputs, since SCART and antenna-inputs was much more popular in the day. I don't remember anything I owned using S-video as a kid.

2. Getting a CRT is easy, there's 10 of them on our version of craigslist currently; but finding out if they support NTSC or not is hard. Some google-fu told me some does, and some does not. Is this relevant at all, or are there cables that I can use either way? I would guess that using a random european SCART-cable would not work, but some other page from my google searches told me that using a european GameCube SCART-cable will work with SFC on european CRTs that only supported PAL. Seem bullshit but that's what it told me.

tl;dr I wanna play on SFC on european CRT. Is it possible and how?

Thread title:

Hi!

I recently (without thinkig it through much) bought myself a Super Famicom. It came with a european power adapter that just worked out of the box, and with a Nintendo AV-cable (composite) that works fine on my flat screen TV.

Then someone on IRC pointed out the obvious, that converting the TV signals from analog to digital adds delay, and that using a CRT is noticeably better. Soo, I want that. I want noticeably better.

Now, before I "go ham" and buy lots of shit and hope it will work, could someone help me by clarifying a couple of things?

1. Will using a SCART-cable be as efficient, in terms of input-lag, as using S-video? Does it perhaps depend on the type the SCART-cable; RGB, composite etc.? I'm not sure all CRTs in Norway will have S-video inputs, since SCART and antenna-inputs was much more popular in the day. I don't remember anything I owned using S-video as a kid.

2. Getting a CRT is easy, there's 10 of them on our version of craigslist currently; but finding out if they support NTSC or not is hard. Some google-fu told me some does, and some does not. Is this relevant at all, or are there cables that I can use either way? I would guess that using a random european SCART-cable would not work, but some other page from my google searches told me that using a european GameCube SCART-cable will work with SFC on european CRTs that only supported PAL. Seem bullshit but that's what it told me.

tl;dr I wanna play on SFC on european CRT. Is it possible and how?

bangerra

2015-02-04 09:30:47 am

Alright a few things you should know:
- The power supply: NEVER use a super nintendo PSU for your SFC, the one provided will either be 3rd party or a Sega Genesis PSU. (This is just so you know never to use a super nintendo one)

- input delay on CRT: regardless what input you use (composite, s-video, SCART) the input delay will be the same (practically zero on CRT)

- PAL CRT vs NTSC-J input: it is true that older PAL CRT's do not support NTSC signals and the only way to know is to test it. This only applies to composite and S-video however. SCART should always work, regardless of region!

- SCART cable for SFC: The SCART pins on an SFC are slightly different than the ones on a Super Nintendo. Using a Super Nintendo SCART cable will give you an ultrabright picture with wrong colour palettes. (red and blue are switched iirc) The GCN SCART cable should indeed work (that's what I've heard aswel, though I cannot confirm this).

- image quality Vs Capture cards: SCART > S-video > composite quality wise. Capturing SCART is rather hard however, because there are no real options to directly capture SCART footage (I know, it sucks).
The best option to capture SCART is by using SCART -> VGA/HDMI converters and an HD cap card. S-video is a good compromise between video quality and capture potential, but most PAL CRTs do not have an S-video input.

I hope this clears up some of your questions.

Alright a few things you should know:
- The power supply: NEVER use a super nintendo PSU for your SFC, the one provided will either be 3rd party or a Sega Genesis PSU. (This is just so you know never to use a super nintendo one)

- input delay on CRT: regardless what input you use (composite, s-video, SCART) the input delay will be the same (practically zero on CRT)

- PAL CRT vs NTSC-J input: it is true that older PAL CRT's do not support NTSC signals and the only way to know is to test it. This only applies to composite and S-video however. SCART should always work, regardless of region!

- SCART cable for SFC: The SCART pins on an SFC are slightly different than the ones on a Super Nintendo. Using a Super Nintendo SCART cable will give you an ultrabright picture with wrong colour palettes. (red and blue are switched iirc) The GCN SCART cable should indeed work (that's what I've heard aswel, though I cannot confirm this).

- image quality Vs Capture cards: SCART > S-video > composite quality wise. Capturing SCART is rather hard however, because there are no real options to directly capture SCART footage (I know, it sucks).
The best option to capture SCART is by using SCART -> VGA/HDMI converters and an HD cap card. S-video is a good compromise between video quality and capture potential, but most PAL CRTs do not have an S-video input.

I hope this clears up some of your questions.

blizzz

2015-02-04 10:44:29 am

SCART can carry composite, S-Video and RGB, what you mean is RGB. If you're using RGB there is no NTSC or PAL color coding anymore, so any NTSC system with RGB output will show in color on a PAL CRT that can display 60Hz. A PAL Gamecube cable will work fine with a Japanese SFC, but you can also buy RGB SCART cables made for the NTSC SNES.

There are a couple ways to capture RGB SCART. Either by using a capture card such as the PEXHDCAP that can capture low res RGB video or by using a scaler such as the XRGB-mini.

bangerra

2015-02-04 10:51:46 am

Quote from blizzz:

but you can also buy RGB SCART cables made for the NTSC SNES.

No those don't work because the pinouts are different, you need a specific SFC SCART cable, or the GCN one.

blizzz

2015-02-04 10:55:34 am

They do work, NTSC SNES and SFC have the same output. Only the SFC Jr and SNES Mini have differences, but those need mods to display RGB anyway. You can compare the cables on viletim's website: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#snes

bangerra

2015-02-04 11:01:16 am

Maybe it's just the PAL one that's different then. I know I have a PAL SCART cable that works with PAL SNES, but not with SFC and GCN.

blizzz

2015-02-04 11:03:32 am

Yes, the PAL SNES needs resistors to get the levels down. NTSC SNES, SFC and PAL Gamecube all use 220µ caps in the RGB lines. The Gamecube cable also has 12V connected, which is missing on the NTSC SNES / SFC.

helgefmi

2015-02-04 12:10:35 pm

Cool! So my plan is to buy a GameCube RGB SCART cable, and a "newish" CRT (to up the chance of it supporting 60hz). Sounds good? Smiley

Re. streaming; if I buy one of these:

- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Saitek-GameCube-RGB-Scart-Cable/dp/B000066BM5
- http://www.amazon.co.uk/RGB-AV-Scart-for-Gamecube/dp/B000060MT9/
- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hellfire-Trading-RGB-AV-HD-TV-SCART-CABLE-LEAD-FOR-NINTENDO-GAMECUBE-GC-NGC-NEW-/390633494619 (this one claims it's for GC exclusivly for some reason?)

.. wouldn't I be able to plug the SCART directly to my TV, and use the AV adaptor to connect to my Diamond VC500 for the stream?

blizzz

2015-02-04 12:32:36 pm

Yes, that will work. If you can, try to find a Sony Trinitron or B&O MX4000 TV that doesn't have 100Hz interpolation.

Alko

2015-02-04 02:09:14 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

The pinout is definitely the same for PAL-SNES and SFC. I used the same cables for both consoles here. The brightness is, however, wildly different.

Also: There are S-Video to SCART converters around, because SCART can carry S-Video (but not at the same time as RGB). Just in case that's still relevant Wink

bangerra

2015-02-04 03:59:19 pm

Quote from helgefmi:

.. wouldn't I be able to plug the SCART directly to my TV, and use the AV adaptor to connect to my Diamond VC500 for the stream?

The composite port on those cable are usually input, not output. It detects wether or not an AV signal is coming in and displays that on your TV. They do this so you don't "lose" the SCART input on your tv to a console so that you can still connect a VHS or DVD or w/e. Unless these are special somehow, you won't get any image out of those connectors.

blizzz

2015-02-04 04:09:07 pm

The RCA plugs are normal passive splitters, they are meant to be used as outputs.