Gems (and SADX) Game Gear games

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-04-26 12:33:50 pm

2006-04-26 01:51:38 am

Never give up!

Okay, here's the deal. I am invoking this topic to discuss speedrun tactics for the following games that are part of Sonic Gems Collection:

-Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Game Gear version)
-Sonic the Hedgehog Triple Trouble
-Sonic Drift 2
-Tails Adventures

You'll notice that I did not include Sonic Spinball (Game Gear version) or Tails Skypatrol. I currently do not think of those as speedrunnable, and it will take a convincing argument to make me add those to the list.

Update: This can also be used to discuss those Game Gear games available on Sonic Adventure DX that are different from Gems Collection, such as Sonic Chaos, Sonic 1 (Game Gear version), and Sonic Labryinth.

Of the games I listed above, the only one I plan to run myself is Tails Adventures, and my current plan is any%, although I may change it to 100% (both of which would be single-segment, as the game's use of passwords instead of save files seems to recommend it). Here's my current route for it (changes I'd make for 100% are in curly brackets and italics):

=Poloy Forest (get Red Emerald and Remote Robot)
=Revisit Poloy Forest (get Speed Boots - I will change where this goes and make it something I only get in a 100% if I find this isn't worthwhile)
=Volcanic Tunnel (get Remote Bomb and Green Emerald)
=Polly Mt. 1 (get Purple Emerald {also get Knuckles, Helmet, and Super Glove})
=Lake Rocky (unlock Cavern Island)
=Cavern Island (get Mine, Napalm Bomb, and Anti-Air Missile)
=Revisit Poloy Forest (unlock Caron Forest {also get Spark and Radio})
=Caron Forest (get Triple Bomb, Proton Torpedo, and Blue Emerald {also get Sonic, although I may inadvertently get him in an any%})
=Revisit Lake Rocky (unlock Green Island)
=Green Island (get Extra Speed, Night Vision, and White Emerald)
=Revisit Lake Rocky (unlock Lake Crystal)
=Lake Crystal (unlock Polly Mt. 2)
=Polly Mt. 2 (get Large Bomb {also get Item Radar and Fang})
=Revisit Polly Mt. 1 (get Rocket Booster)
=Revisit Volcanic Tunnel (get Extra Armor {also get Hammer})
=Revisit Lake Rocky (unlock Coco Island)
=Coco Island (get the Yellow Emerald {also get Teleport Device})
=Battle Fortress (get the Wrench and exit)
=Revisit Battle Fortress (complete the game)

I did not include revisits to Tails' House, as I will be taking those as I need them (hopefully as little as possible). If I missed anything, feel free to let me know.

Thread title:

Okay, here's the deal.  I am invoking this topic to discuss speedrun tactics for the following games that are part of Sonic Gems Collection:

-Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Game Gear version)
-Sonic the Hedgehog Triple Trouble
-Sonic Drift 2
-Tails Adventures

You'll notice that I did not include Sonic Spinball (Game Gear version) or Tails Skypatrol.  I currently do not think of those as speedrunnable, and it will take a convincing argument to make me add those to the list.

Update: This can also be used to discuss those Game Gear games available on Sonic Adventure DX that are different from Gems Collection, such as Sonic Chaos, Sonic 1 (Game Gear version), and Sonic Labryinth.

Of the games I listed above, the only one I plan to run myself is Tails Adventures, and my current plan is any%, although I may change it to 100% (both of which would be single-segment, as the game's use of passwords instead of save files seems to recommend it).  Here's my current route for it (changes I'd make for 100% are in curly brackets and italics):

=Poloy Forest (get Red Emerald and Remote Robot)
=Revisit Poloy Forest (get Speed Boots - I will change where this goes and make it something I only get in a 100% if I find this isn't worthwhile)
=Volcanic Tunnel (get Remote Bomb and Green Emerald)
=Polly Mt. 1 (get Purple Emerald [i]{also get Knuckles, Helmet, and Super Glove}[/i])
=Lake Rocky (unlock Cavern Island)
=Cavern Island (get Mine, Napalm Bomb, and Anti-Air Missile)
=Revisit Poloy Forest (unlock Caron Forest [i]{also get Spark and Radio}[/i])
=Caron Forest (get Triple Bomb, Proton Torpedo, and Blue Emerald [i]{also get Sonic, although I may inadvertently get him in an any%}[/i])
=Revisit Lake Rocky (unlock Green Island)
=Green Island (get Extra Speed, Night Vision, and White Emerald)
=Revisit Lake Rocky (unlock Lake Crystal)
=Lake Crystal (unlock Polly Mt. 2)
=Polly Mt. 2 (get Large Bomb [i]{also get Item Radar and Fang}[/i])
=Revisit Polly Mt. 1 (get Rocket Booster)
=Revisit Volcanic Tunnel (get Extra Armor [i]{also get Hammer}[/i])
=Revisit Lake Rocky (unlock Coco Island)
=Coco Island (get the Yellow Emerald [i]{also get Teleport Device}[/i])
=Battle Fortress (get the Wrench and exit)
=Revisit Battle Fortress (complete the game)

I did not include revisits to Tails' House, as I will be taking those as I need them (hopefully as little as possible).  If I missed anything, feel free to let me know.

mike89

2006-04-26 02:53:41 am

SEGA Junkie

Sonic Adventure DX has all six of the GG games on Gems Collection, and an additional six, a few of which would be potential speedrun candidates. (Sonic 1, Sonic Chaos, Sonic Labyrinth, etc)

Just for the record.

AquaTiger

2006-04-26 02:56:51 am

Never give up!

If that's the case, what should I rename this topic to, in order to expand the list properly? I only specified Gems Collection's games because Gems Collection is the only one I had checked prior to making this topic.

petrie911

2006-04-26 05:17:09 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

hmm...it seems the 100% route isn't that different from the any% route. you just go a little out of your way for some items, but you're always going back when you already had a reason to.

Also, does anyone know where I can find some nice maps of this game. it would help greatly

Also, this sounds a little stupid, but how do you select the battle fortress level from the level select. it doesn't seem to let me (yes, I have beaten the sea fox part).

Also, I like to use the word also...>_>

trihex

2006-04-26 06:25:41 am

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

I know for a fact that a Sonic Chaos run would be an uber cakewalk. You could have a min% in around 0:10:XX.

#endgame

2006-04-26 12:26:55 pm

ZZT > *

I'd personally enjoy watching a sonic 2 run. Interestingly, the SMS and GG versions are different, despite the underlying hardware being essentially the same. Differences I know of:

Underground zone, act 3: The bombs Robotnik shoots bounce high and low on the GG, on the SMS all the bombs bounce low.

Aqua lake zone, act 2: The SMS version starts filled with water, the GG one fills up in the opening seconds of the level.

I assume 100% in sonic games is all emeralds? Sonic 2 doesn't have super sonic, so the run wouldn't degenerate into flying really fast in the second half of the run. Plus, the emeralds are all collected within the levels, which I think makes for better viewing.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-04-26 01:01:12 pm

2006-04-26 12:52:04 pm

Never give up!

Quote:

hmm...it seems the 100% route isn't that different from the any% route. you just go a little out of your way for some items, but you're always going back when you already had a reason to.

Also, does anyone know where I can find some nice maps of this game. it would help greatly

Also, this sounds a little stupid, but how do you select the battle fortress level from the level select. it doesn't seem to let me (yes, I have beaten the sea fox part).

Also, I like to use the word also...>_>

Yeah, the any% and the 100% routes were both designed with the reduction of backtracking in mind. Because Tails isn't as fast as he is in most of the Sonic games where he appears, even WITH the Speed Shoes, I want to try to minimize how far he needs to go.

The places where the order of item collection matters the most are Poloy Forest and Volcanic Tunnel - because certain items in those stages (the Radio and the Hammer) can be gotten in earlier visits than when I get them. I wait to get some items in those because otherwise I need to backtrack to equip the Remote Bomb.

Interestingly, the route is somewhat comparable to the one that the only guide for Tails Adventures on GameFAQs follows, because frankly, some parts HAVE to be done in a certain general order. There's one major difference between my route and that guide's route though. I play Caron Forest before Green Island, instead of after getting the Rocket Booster, because I could use the extra emerald during Lake Crystal. Also, the extra firepower and blast radius of the Triple Bomb comes in handy.

By the way, from my experience so far with the Speed Shoes, I am seriously considering saving those for a 100% and waiting to get those until the visit where I have to unlock Caron Forest anyway. The time it takes to backtrack and get them earlier exceeds the time I save using them so far.

Quote:

I'd personally enjoy watching a sonic 2 run. Interestingly, the SMS and GG versions are different, despite the underlying hardware being essentially the same. Differences I know of:

Underground zone, act 3: The bombs Robotnik shoots bounce high and low on the GG, on the SMS all the bombs bounce low.

Aqua lake zone, act 2: The SMS version starts filled with water, the GG one fills up in the opening seconds of the level.

I assume 100% in sonic games is all emeralds? Sonic 2 doesn't have super sonic, so the run wouldn't degenerate into flying really fast in the second half of the run. Plus, the emeralds are all collected within the levels, which I think makes for better viewing.

For almost all Sonic games, yes, I believe this is the case. I think the only possible exception to this rule would be Sonic CD, where you have to worry about good futures as well.

[quote]hmm...it seems the 100% route isn't that different from the any% route.  you just go a little out of your way for some items, but you're always going back when you already had a reason to.

Also, does anyone know where I can find some nice maps of this game.  it would help greatly

Also, this sounds a little stupid, but how do you select the battle fortress level from the level select.  it doesn't seem to let me (yes, I have beaten the sea fox part).

Also, I like to use the word also...>_>[/quote]

Yeah, the any% and the 100% routes were both designed with the reduction of backtracking in mind.  Because Tails isn't as fast as he is in most of the Sonic games where he appears, even WITH the Speed Shoes, I want to try to minimize how far he needs to go.

The places where the order of item collection matters the most are Poloy Forest and Volcanic Tunnel - because certain items in those stages (the Radio and the Hammer) can be gotten in earlier visits than when I get them.  I wait to get some items in those because otherwise I need to backtrack to equip the Remote Bomb.

Interestingly, the route is somewhat comparable to the one that the only guide for Tails Adventures on GameFAQs follows, because frankly, some parts HAVE to be done in a certain general order.  There's one major difference between my route and that guide's route though.  I play Caron Forest before Green Island, instead of after getting the Rocket Booster, because I could use the extra emerald during Lake Crystal.  Also, the extra firepower and blast radius of the Triple Bomb comes in handy.

By the way, from my experience so far with the Speed Shoes, I am seriously considering saving those for a 100% and waiting to get those until the visit where I have to unlock Caron Forest anyway.  The time it takes to backtrack and get them earlier exceeds the time I save using them so far.

[quote]I'd personally enjoy watching a sonic 2 run. Interestingly, the SMS and GG versions are different, despite the underlying hardware being essentially the same. Differences I know of:

Underground zone, act 3: The bombs Robotnik shoots bounce high and low on the GG, on the SMS all the bombs bounce low.

Aqua lake zone, act 2: The SMS version starts filled with water, the GG one fills up in the opening seconds of the level.

I assume 100% in sonic games is all emeralds? Sonic 2 doesn't have super sonic, so the run wouldn't degenerate into flying really fast in the second half of the run. Plus, the emeralds are all collected within the levels, which I think makes for better viewing.[/quote]

For almost all Sonic games, yes, I believe this is the case.  I think the only possible exception to this rule would be Sonic CD, where you have to worry about good futures as well.

Saestrol

Edit history:

Saestrol: 2006-04-26 07:00:02 pm

2006-04-26 06:58:59 pm

Speed Running Joy-bringer

I would like to see Sonic CD done that way. All the Time Stones collected while finishing the game. But One thing.

When you go back to the past and destroy that machine, it creates a good future for that zone. Do it for zone 1 and 2, and you fight the boss in the good future. Would you need to create a good future for every zone untill you get the Time Stones, or just go straight for the 50 rings > Special Ring?

I feel like mapping out each stage with an appropriate route as to how you go through each stage. I don't have the game, but I get a lot of playing out of it. Palm Tree Panic is memorized. Everything after that is a bit shady. I know Tempet was tricky as to where it was placed...

AquaTiger

2006-04-27 07:01:48 pm

Never give up!

I'm assuming you'd work on getting the good future in every level, so yes, I imagine going out of the way to get those in levels before you can have all the Time Stones would be needed.

If you go ahead with that plan, is there any chance you could make routes for a couple of extra levels as a buffer, in case whoever does the run can't get every stone on the first try? (This, despite the fact I would imagine failing a special stage would warrant an automatic reset.)

Anyway, as far as Tails' Adventures goes. I AM moving the Speed Shoes to a different spot in the order - namely, I will be getting them when I have to revisit Poloy Forest to get to Caron Forest. Speed Shoes are just NOT that useful for a speedrun - there's not enough flat or downward-inclined surfaces where they can be used to completely counteract the extra time needed to get them.

Also, I've got my route up to and including Lake Crystal to a point where I could play it at a given speed consistently. Not quite to the point I could do it blindfolded, though - I MIGHT be able to do the first visit to Poloy Forest that way, but that's it.

By the way, there's two tricks I've discovered in Tails' Adventures that might be useful:

-Infinite Flight Repeater: This is only necessary until maybe when I get the Emerald in Volcanic Tunnel (and I may not even need it after the first visit to Poloy Forest), but it's still notable. Basically, you can resume flight if you hold Up and hit the jump button in midair, but only until you fall a certain distance. Not only that, but your flight meter is restored to full, allowing for flight that is normally beyond your ability. This gets at least two uses in the first section of Poloy Forest alone.

-Early Robot Return: If you're using the Remote Robot, there's a small window when you can return the robot as soon as you get an item with it. This window is basically before the name of the item shows up. The only problem here is that the graphics get a bit glitchy and it's hard to determine where Tails is for a short time after the robot returns.

As soon as my recording computer becomes operational again, I'll demonstrate the second trick, although I think it's valid because there's no actual leaving of the game boundaries going on. If someone can manage to visually demonstrate this to everyone else before I get around to that, that's even better.

I'm assuming you'd work on getting the good future in every level, so yes, I imagine going out of the way to get those in levels before you can have all the Time Stones would be needed.

If you go ahead with that plan, is there any chance you could make routes for a couple of extra levels as a buffer, in case whoever does the run can't get every stone on the first try?  (This, despite the fact I would imagine failing a special stage would warrant an automatic reset.)

Anyway, as far as Tails' Adventures goes.  I AM moving the Speed Shoes to a different spot in the order - namely, I will be getting them when I have to revisit Poloy Forest to get to Caron Forest.  Speed Shoes are just NOT that useful for a speedrun - there's not enough flat or downward-inclined surfaces where they can be used to completely counteract the extra time needed to get them.

Also, I've got my route up to and including Lake Crystal to a point where I could play it at a given speed consistently.  Not quite to the point I could do it blindfolded, though - I MIGHT be able to do the first visit to Poloy Forest that way, but that's it.

By the way, there's two tricks I've discovered in Tails' Adventures that might be useful:

-Infinite Flight Repeater: This is only necessary until maybe when I get the Emerald in Volcanic Tunnel (and I may not even need it after the first visit to Poloy Forest), but it's still notable.  Basically, you can resume flight if you hold Up and hit the jump button in midair, but only until you fall a certain distance.  Not only that, but your flight meter is restored to full, allowing for flight that is normally beyond your ability.  This gets at least two uses in the first section of Poloy Forest alone.

-Early Robot Return: If you're using the Remote Robot, there's a small window when you can return the robot as soon as you get an item with it.  This window is basically before the name of the item shows up.  The only problem here is that the graphics get a bit glitchy and it's hard to determine where Tails is for a short time after the robot returns.

As soon as my recording computer becomes operational again, I'll demonstrate the second trick, although I think it's valid because there's no actual leaving of the game boundaries going on.  If someone can manage to visually demonstrate this to everyone else before I get around to that, that's even better.

Saestrol

Edit history:

Saestrol: 2006-04-27 10:06:40 pm

2006-04-27 10:05:13 pm

Speed Running Joy-bringer

Quote:

I'm assuming you'd work on getting the good future in every level, so yes, I imagine going out of the way to get those in levels before you can have all the Time Stones would be needed.

I see. Well in that case, locate the machines all the way up untill Quartz Quandrant 2 I think. But I think we also need to note the ring monitors too. Since that would generally mean we can zip straight to the end if we get the total sooner. And Workbench is going to be a pain in the arse (I can see it now...). Gotta keep in mind where the nearest sign is as well. Maybe I should consider a general map being made.

Quote:

If you go ahead with that plan, is there any chance you could make routes for a couple of extra levels as a buffer, in case whoever does the run can't get every stone on the first try? (This, despite the fact I would imagine failing a special stage would warrant an automatic reset.)

I'm pretty sure that failing a special stage is not recommended, but it also doesn't cause TOO much time to be lost. You will end up in the next special stage if you fail the current one. Then one it has gone through all 7, it cylces back to the lowest number remaining which you have not cleared. But I also think it would be better to get the stones ASAP because then you don't have to go out of the way to get 50 rings anymore once you do, so unless you naturally get that amount going through a stage, then I guess it would be switched up a bit.

[quote]I'm assuming you'd work on getting the good future in every level, so yes, I imagine going out of the way to get those in levels before you can have all the Time Stones would be needed.[/quote]
I see. Well in that case, locate the machines all the way up untill Quartz Quandrant 2 I think. But I think we also need to note the ring monitors too. Since that would generally mean we can zip straight to the end if we get the total sooner. And Workbench is going to be a pain in the arse (I can see it now...). Gotta keep in mind where the nearest sign is as well. Maybe I should consider a general map being made.

[quote]If you go ahead with that plan, is there any chance you could make routes for a couple of extra levels as a buffer, in case whoever does the run can't get every stone on the first try?  (This, despite the fact I would imagine failing a special stage would warrant an automatic reset.)[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that failing a special stage is not recommended, but it also doesn't cause TOO much time to be lost. You will end up in the next special stage if you fail the current one. Then one it has gone through all 7, it cylces back to the lowest number remaining which you have not cleared. But I also think it would be better to get the stones ASAP because then you don't have to go out of the way to get 50 rings anymore once you do, so unless you naturally get that amount going through a stage, then I guess it would be switched up a bit.

AquaTiger

2006-04-28 04:40:52 am

Never give up!

A few updates as far as Tails' Adventures goes.

First off, I need some training as far as using the Napalm Bomb to its fullest goes. Seriously, I do. About 10% of the time, I can blow up more than one column of green wall at once. I need to improve that to 70%.

Also, my last completely serious attempt died at the end of Lake Crystal at just below 40 minutes. Getting the run done in less than an hour is my first goal, so stay tuned - I'll have more time to practice tomorrow.

mike89

2006-04-28 08:23:22 am

SEGA Junkie

Notes on Sonic CD:

* You don't need to go into the past for Quartz Quadrant. You should get the seventh Time Stone there, and once you get all the time stones all bosses will be in the good future.

* Take note of Sprint's videos over at TSC. I can't remember if any of them get 50 rings, but even if they don't it's only a minor detour to pick them up in most cases. You should be able to see rings as he flies past =P

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-04-29 01:19:51 am

2006-04-29 12:15:23 am

Never give up!

I'll get around to watching those videos eventually.

On another note, I am going to probably have to abandon the use of the 'Early Robot Return' trick in Tails' Adventures. I discovered it tends to screw up Tails' position, and I've even managed to get him stuck in a wall he can't escape when trying to get the trick to work in some places. If I make an outtake reel for Tails' Adventures, I will definitely be trying to duplicate THAT incident, among others.

Before I get too much further, I've switched over to a 100% run, because the time difference is just not that excessive.

I also will probably not be equipping the Vulcan Gun in my very first trip with the Sea-Fox - it's not really necessary to do so. If I find it saves more than 20 seconds to use it, then I'll reconsider.

My first non-required trip to Tails' House (required trips are to equip new weapons that I need in order to progress) will probably be somewhere during the visits of Polly Mt 1. It turns out that in my route, after getting the Helmet and the Knuckles, I have to exit Polly Mt 1 in order to get back on the main route. Since I tend to take huge amounts of damage after I've gotten two of the six emeralds (I charge through a lot of things once I have the rings), I will be taking a refill and possibly also equipping the Knuckles, as those can potentially get some use until after Cavern Island (when I need the fourth slot to be the Napalm Bomb).

No new time update yet - I'll get to that later on today.

Edit: Another area I need to practice is Cavern Island's first section, in the area right at the end with the upward shaft and the bats. Those guys can suck minutes of time away if things go wrong there, and I wish to avoid that. Still no time yet - my recent attempt died at Cavern Island's boss, and I'm not giving a new time until a run reaches Lake Crystal. Once a run makes it that far, I'm saving (using the save feature in Gems Collection) so I can practice the rest of the game.

I'll get around to watching those videos eventually.

On another note, I am going to probably have to abandon the use of the 'Early Robot Return' trick in Tails' Adventures.  I discovered it tends to screw up Tails' position, and I've even managed to get him stuck in a wall he can't escape when trying to get the trick to work in some places.  If I make an outtake reel for Tails' Adventures, I will definitely be trying to duplicate THAT incident, among others.

Before I get too much further, I've switched over to a 100% run, because the time difference is just not that excessive.

I also will probably not be equipping the Vulcan Gun in my very first trip with the Sea-Fox - it's not really necessary to do so.  If I find it saves more than 20 seconds to use it, then I'll reconsider.

My first non-required trip to Tails' House (required trips are to equip new weapons that I need in order to progress) will probably be somewhere during the visits of Polly Mt 1.  It turns out that in my route, after getting the Helmet and the Knuckles, I have to exit Polly Mt 1 in order to get back on the main route.  Since I tend to take huge amounts of damage after I've gotten two of the six emeralds (I charge through a lot of things once I have the rings), I will be taking a refill and possibly also equipping the Knuckles, as those can potentially get some use until after Cavern Island (when I need the fourth slot to be the Napalm Bomb).

No new time update yet - I'll get to that later on today.

Edit: Another area I need to practice is Cavern Island's first section, in the area right at the end with the upward shaft and the bats.  Those guys can suck minutes of time away if things go wrong there, and I wish to avoid that.  Still no time yet - my recent attempt died at Cavern Island's boss, and I'm not giving a new time until a run reaches Lake Crystal.  Once a run makes it that far, I'm saving (using the save feature in Gems Collection) so I can practice the rest of the game.

AquaTiger

2006-04-29 08:48:59 pm

Never give up!

Okay.

I have successfully gotten to a point where I can save and master the route from Polly Mt. 2 to the rest of the game. It takes me about 38 minutes to get there, which I may be able to shave a minute or two off of in the real run.

At the current rate, I project that a single-segment speedrun of Tails' Adventures would take between 60 and 70 minutes. We'll see, and I'll make sure to record it and show everyone (assuming my recording computer is back in business by then) if it turns out I can get within that goal.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-05-03 02:06:35 am

2006-05-03 01:41:18 am

Never give up!

My current update on Tails' Adventures is as follows.

I used that save to attempt to get more strategies for later areas of the game. So far, I have strategies covered for Polly Mt. 2, the revisit to Polly Mt. 1, and the revisit to Volcanic Tunnel.

First, for Polly Mt. 2. My item collection order is first the Large Bomb, then Fang, then the Item Radar. I need to bring Night Vision, the Remote Robot, and the Regular Bomb into here in order to get all the items. Triple Bomb causes too many explosions for my sake.

As for the revisit to Polly Mt. 1, I decided that getting the Rocket Booster (don't know why the game calls it the Rocket Booter) and backtracking to leave is the fastest way.

Now, Volcanic Tunnel revisited. It is here that I plan to pick up the Hammer. Also, I need the Remote Bomb, the Regular Bomb, and the Large Bomb to get through here, but I'll see if I can squeak in the Speed Shoes to get things working. I need to find a way to avoid taking so much damage here, because the boss fight is a VERY difficult one. Speaking of which, my strategy for the first phase is to wait until he fires, jump to cause the whole volley to miss, then immediately jump again and throw a regular bomb. The second phase causes me problems, but I find that the sparks can be destroyed by bombs. So I plan to get into a certain position I've decided is optimal, then throw a regular bomb to destroy the spark, then jump immediately and throw another regular bomb at the boss (you can throw a second bomb when the first one starts exploding). I can't use triple bombs here, because with those, you have to wait until all the explosions are gone to throw another. However, just the explosions, if placed correctly, can damage bosses. Regardless, if I use the triple bomb, I have to either waste all my time destroying sparks or just trade hits.

That part of the game seems to take about 10 and a half minutes for me. If my time is disproportionately wrong, feel free to tell me.

Edit: I've discovered something while messing around with the game. Instead of the Speed Shoes, I should use the Sonic powerup. It turns out the sonic-spin goes a bit faster than the Speed Shoes, PLUS it eliminates enemies in its path AND destroys walls that the regular bombs can destroy. Unfortunately, you lose all acceleration the moment you spin off of the edge of a platform. Regardless, this has allowed me to shave a minute off of this area in my testing.

I'll check out the next underwater part and Coco Island a bit later.

My current update on Tails' Adventures is as follows.

I used that save to attempt to get more strategies for later areas of the game.  So far, I have strategies covered for Polly Mt. 2, the revisit to Polly Mt. 1, and the revisit to Volcanic Tunnel.

First, for Polly Mt. 2.  My item collection order is first the Large Bomb, then Fang, then the Item Radar.  I need to bring Night Vision, the Remote Robot, and the Regular Bomb into here in order to get all the items.  Triple Bomb causes too many explosions for my sake.

As for the revisit to Polly Mt. 1, I decided that getting the Rocket Booster (don't know why the game calls it the Rocket Booter) and backtracking to leave is the fastest way.

Now, Volcanic Tunnel revisited.  It is here that I plan to pick up the Hammer.  Also, I need the Remote Bomb, the Regular Bomb, and the Large Bomb to get through here, but I'll see if I can squeak in the Speed Shoes to get things working.  I need to find a way to avoid taking so much damage here, because the boss fight is a VERY difficult one.  Speaking of which, my strategy for the first phase is to wait until he fires, jump to cause the whole volley to miss, then immediately jump again and throw a regular bomb.  The second phase causes me problems, but I find that the sparks can be destroyed by bombs.  So I plan to get into a certain position I've decided is optimal, then throw a regular bomb to destroy the spark, then jump immediately and throw another regular bomb at the boss (you can throw a second bomb when the first one starts exploding).  I can't use triple bombs here, because with those, you have to wait until all the explosions are gone to throw another.  However, just the explosions, if placed correctly, can damage bosses.  Regardless, if I use the triple bomb, I have to either waste all my time destroying sparks or just trade hits.

That part of the game seems to take about 10 and a half minutes for me.  If my time is disproportionately wrong, feel free to tell me.

Edit: I've discovered something while messing around with the game.  Instead of the Speed Shoes, I should use the Sonic powerup.  It turns out the sonic-spin goes a bit faster than the Speed Shoes, PLUS it eliminates enemies in its path AND destroys walls that the regular bombs can destroy.  Unfortunately, you lose all acceleration the moment you spin off of the edge of a platform.  Regardless, this has allowed me to shave a minute off of this area in my testing.

I'll check out the next underwater part and Coco Island a bit later.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2006-05-03 01:57:56 am

2006-05-03 01:54:22 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Aquatiger: Is Sonic Spinball for Gamegear entirely different from the Genesis version? If not, I believe Arrow is running the Genesis version, and there's already an impressive TAS of it, so maybe the GG version is also possible? Just a thought.

[/non sequitur]

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-05-03 03:27:26 am

2006-05-03 02:10:20 am

Never give up!

I actually didn't extensively test that. I was basing it more off of the fact that a speedrun of a pinball-based game is so aggravating that almost no one would want to DO it.

But, I have heard there is a finite limit to Sonic Spinball, which matches one speedrun criterion that most pinball games, to my knowledge, DON'T have.

Is it possible? Probably. I may consider adding it to the discussion list, despite the fact that very few people would willingly bust capillaries actually doing such.

Edit: Even more news on the Tails' Adventures front.

It turns out the Sonic powerup can be used in midair, and in fact it's pretty useful that way. Also, the Vulcan Gun (and possibly the Anti-Air Missile) would be the best weapon to use in the Sea-Fox portion of the Battle Fortress.

I can do the last visit to Lake Rocky, the runthrough of Coco Island, and the retrieval of the Wrench in about 13 minutes. Let's see.... 38 plus 9.5 plus 13...... that'll definitely put this run over an hour. Anyway, the one guide I've decided to use to help me research the game says to use the Triple Bomb, Remote Bomb, Wrench, and Remote Robot in Battle Fortress. This leaves me wondering if Remote Bombs are useful on the bosses in Battle Fortress. If they are, I'll swap out the Triple Bomb for the Sonic powerup in a heartbeat - that thing is great for quick boosts.

I actually didn't extensively test that.  I was basing it more off of the fact that a speedrun of a pinball-based game is so aggravating that almost no one would want to DO it.

But, I have heard there is a finite limit to Sonic Spinball, which matches one speedrun criterion that most pinball games, to my knowledge, DON'T have.

Is it possible?  Probably.  I may consider adding it to the discussion list, despite the fact that very few people would willingly bust capillaries actually doing such.

Edit: Even more news on the Tails' Adventures front.

It turns out the Sonic powerup can be used in midair, and in fact it's pretty useful that way.  Also, the Vulcan Gun (and possibly the Anti-Air Missile) would be the best weapon to use in the Sea-Fox portion of the Battle Fortress.

I can do the last visit to Lake Rocky, the runthrough of Coco Island, and the retrieval of the Wrench in about 13 minutes.  Let's see.... 38 plus 9.5 plus 13...... that'll definitely put this run over an hour.  Anyway, the one guide I've decided to use to help me research the game says to use the Triple Bomb, Remote Bomb, Wrench, and Remote Robot in Battle Fortress.  This leaves me wondering if Remote Bombs are useful on the bosses in Battle Fortress.  If they are, I'll swap out the Triple Bomb for the Sonic powerup in a heartbeat - that thing is great for quick boosts.

Lightweight

2006-05-03 03:42:27 am

to answer insipirmuckywater: yes, the Gen and GG versions are different in a few ways. the levels are kinds similar, but the routes are different.

Yoshi348

2006-05-03 05:21:11 am

dinosaur from the past

And I have beaten the GG one, so I can confirm that part as well.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-05-03 07:34:30 pm

2006-05-03 07:28:25 pm

Never give up!

Okay, I've found out something else that's odd.

Apparently, you don't even need the wrench in Battle Fortress. At the least, I never used it. This means I might not have to exit and re-enter the place after getting the Wrench - I may be able to get by that way. If there IS something the Wrench changes - like the ending - that I'm missing, someone point it out to me. (My ending had a scene involving Tails building a robot - and several mishaps involving such - in the upper half, while the credits rolled in the bottom half. Then the game showed me my item detection ratio - 100% - after those two finished, and then it went back to the intro.)

Anyway, counting all my mistakes, the Battle Fortress itself took about 8 minutes. If I have absolutely perfect play everywhere, going below an hour might very well be possible for a 100%, although I'm looking at 65 minutes as more feasible. I might actually try a test run later today to find out if my timing is reasonable.

petrie911

2006-05-04 12:38:59 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Keep in mind that you can keep your speed from Sonic spinning by jumping. It's very useful, and allows for a ridiculously long jump.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-05-04 03:28:49 am

2006-05-04 01:19:02 am

Never give up!

Yeah, that's something I've recently realized. Landing from a Sonic spin jump also cancels it, which may make it even more abusable.

I also discovered that using it on Green Island saves a couple of minutes if you're willing to take damage. I've tried two times to get a full-game test run tonight. Both have ended at the Volcanic Tunnel. The first time, I forgot to bring along the Remote Bomb, which would have been too costly time-wise. The second time, I died at the boss that guards the Extra Armor item.

That second run used all the tricks I'm capable of doing, whereas the first didn't. The second run wound up to be about 43 and a half minutes where I died. And looking at the numbers, I may very well be able to squeak out a sub-hour run.

The two places with the biggest chance of ruining the run, in all honesty, are Polly Mt. 1 on the second visit (the Super Glove/Emerald visit) and the last visit to Volcanic Tunnel (where you get Extra Armor). I have the potential to lose tons of time against Polly Mt. 1's boss (who eerily resembles Bean from Sonic The Fighters), and I run a very serious risk of dying against Volcanic Tunnel's boss, especially if I have less than 30 rings entering that fight.

Edit: The game is, for some reason, putting up much stiffer resistance than usual in Polly Mt. 2 - specifically, the columns area that is the bane of most people who've actually played the game. Also, there is one new route change. Instead of getting the Helmet and Knuckles in my first pass through Polly Mt. 1 and taking a second pass to get the Super Glove and the Emerald, I think I will get the Super Glove and Emerald in the first pass and wait to get the Helmet and Knuckles until I have to get the Rocket Booster. I believe this change will save at least 40 seconds.

Regardless, I think I will have to wait until later on Saturday to get more practice with Tails' Adventures, as I have three projects and three finals I have to take care of in the next three days - all of the projects and two of the exams are due on Saturday, in fact. After that, there's just one project and two exams I have to finish the next week.

Yeah, that's something I've recently realized.  Landing from a Sonic spin jump also cancels it, which may make it even more abusable.

I also discovered that using it on Green Island saves a couple of minutes if you're willing to take damage.  I've tried two times to get a full-game test run tonight.  Both have ended at the Volcanic Tunnel.  The first time, I forgot to bring along the Remote Bomb, which would have been too costly time-wise.  The second time, I died at the boss that guards the Extra Armor item.

That second run used all the tricks I'm capable of doing, whereas the first didn't.  The second run wound up to be about 43 and a half minutes where I died.  And looking at the numbers, I may very well be able to squeak out a sub-hour run.

The two places with the biggest chance of ruining the run, in all honesty, are Polly Mt. 1 on the second visit (the Super Glove/Emerald visit) and the last visit to Volcanic Tunnel (where you get Extra Armor).  I have the potential to lose tons of time against Polly Mt. 1's boss (who eerily resembles Bean from Sonic The Fighters), and I run a very serious risk of dying against Volcanic Tunnel's boss, especially if I have less than 30 rings entering that fight.

Edit: The game is, for some reason, putting up much stiffer resistance than usual in Polly Mt. 2 - specifically, the columns area that is the bane of most people who've actually played the game.  Also, there is one new route change.  Instead of getting the Helmet and Knuckles in my first pass through Polly Mt. 1 and taking a second pass to get the Super Glove and the Emerald, I think I will get the Super Glove and Emerald in the first pass and wait to get the Helmet and Knuckles until I have to get the Rocket Booster.  I believe this change will save at least 40 seconds.

Regardless, I think I will have to wait until later on Saturday to get more practice with Tails' Adventures, as I have three projects and three finals I have to take care of in the next three days - all of the projects and two of the exams are due on Saturday, in fact.  After that, there's just one project and two exams I have to finish the next week.

AquaTiger

2006-05-07 01:45:56 am

Never give up!

Okay, as promised, it's Saturday, so here's an update.

I've still had no luck in getting a full-game run done yet. The latest attempt was ruined by a very strange glitch that seemed to strike me randomly on Polly Mt. 1.

You know that second lift near where the Rocket Booster is? I tried to fly up through the lift, which seemed inconsequential to me, and instead of simply being blocked or let through, I was suddenly deposited into the cliff edge. It's never happened to me before this time.

So suffice to say I will definitely be trying to play things by the book, waiting in more spots than usual, by the time I get a real run done.

AquaTiger

2006-05-09 02:58:57 am

Never give up!

Okay, we have a v1 time finally.

I decided to give this game a go tonight, and I wound up with a total time of 1 hour, 1 minute, and 57 seconds. This time goes from the moment I press Start to when the final level fades out, and is how I plan on timing future attempts at this game. Note that this may somewhat differ, as you don't have control for at least three or four seconds after you press Start and you lose control at least five seconds before the fade-out of the final level. Considering the kinds of mistakes I made, I do believe that going below an hour is still possible.

I will try a recorded attempt tomorrow sometime, and see what I can get.

AquaTiger

2006-05-18 10:20:09 pm

Never give up!

An update on my progress with Tails' Adventures.

I have not been able to produce a second run that beats the last time I had yet. My attempts at running this game have been halted by just about everything that could possibly go wrong, both within the game and outside it. The biggest run-ruiner is still Polly Mt. 1 - I allow myself only one hit on that ascent, maybe more if the falls are small enough, and half the time I get hit more than once there. Getting hit in the wrong place means losing TONS of time, and somehow that bird (what on earth is its name?) always knows where I'm going to be ONLY in the WORST POSSIBLE AREAS.

I'm going to make sure to get a run completed and its preliminary copy processed and uploaded by this Saturday, mark my words.