Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/GearsOfWar.html
Gears of War (Any %) (Single Segment) [Co-Op]
Verifier Responses
Decision: Reject
Reason: Despite being faster than the existing run, the new strategies should make up for more time than this
https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/queue/verificationfiles/521/
This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.
Gears of War (Any %) (Single Segment) [Co-Op]
Verifier Responses
Quote from Youkai:
I'll just go ahead and say that this verifier is Youkai. I did the current co-op run with Brassmaster so any time I say "my run" in this verification I'm referring to the current SDA co-op run.
Conclusion
I'm a little curious about the video run-times. The times I'm seeing on the videos are from the time the intro cut-scene is skipped to Raam's death. For Marcus's video I got a time of 1:33:21 and for Dom's I got a time of 1:33:36. I wouldn't be surprised if they were off by a second or two but 15 seconds seems a bit much. I'm not sure what this might indicate. Perhaps dropped frames in Marcus video?
I think I'm going to have to give this a reject even though it's faster than my current run. Despite being a minute faster than the current run there are numerous errors and failures to use the known fastest strategy. The run isn't bad it just very un-polished. It seems like the runners accepted the first run they got that was faster than the current record. With some better planning they could easily shave 2 minutes off of this run.
If the other verifiers over-rule me on accepting it we still definitely want an explanation as to how they got the plank section to work as they did. As I said in the comments I don't beleve that path is possible under any circumstance; or I have never seen it anyway.
Overall this run feels really un-polished to me. There are a few issues. They get stuck to walls a little more often than I really think you probably should. The runners miss a couple of time savers that are in all of the current runs. In a few places it's obvious that the runners probably didn't have a good plan for how the fight was supposed to go down; with regards to what both Marcus and Dom were supposed to be doing and who was going to lead on the way to the next checkpoint. Finally there are a hand-full of locations where the runners clearly use sub-optimal strategies which should be obviously avoided e.g. picking up downed teammates when you could just run to the checkpoint. On the plus side I did see a few things in the run that I wasn't aware of including a nice 20 second time-saver by running through the dark. The fighting is generally well executed in locations that don't require much planning/strategy.
The runners start off well. They get the dive at the start to trigger the choice quickly. In the first fight they manage to skip the two grubs outside and only kill the three in the room plus an odd one. I don't suspect cheating but I thought Brass and I tried that when we ran the game and it didn't work. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
After the cut scene they skip picking up hammerbursts at the beginning which saves a second but then they don't use a grenade on the three grubs. Marcus takes too long to kill them causing Dom to have to wait 3-4 seconds at the gate for it to open. That's a pretty egregious error considering it's only 4 minutes into the run. I know when Brass and I ran the game we re-set a lot there. I suppose it could be excused since it's only 3 seconds and there are certainly a lot of other luck/execution things that can save significantly more than that.
Then they make an even worse error clearing out unnecessary grubs and a grub hole which costs 20 more seconds. I'm not sure this error can be excused. Every current run on the site skips the battle and only kills the three grubs after it. Only the three before the gate are required to kill for the gate to open.
After that things go well for a bit again. Dom does tend to throw grenades into holes late costing a second or two but he does go through the split-up hallway without killing anyone which saves time.
Once they get outside again Marcus picks up a grenade that I didn't even know existing and is significantly less out of the way than the one Brass picked up my run. Good job finding that.
They both clear the grubs coming out of the holes quickly but Dom should have peeled off earlier. He gets to the door well after it is already opened. There is some variation on how quickly the door opens so I suppose that's not really an issue.
The wretch hallway goes optimally. Marcus gets the Seeder 2 skip in one dive which is awesome; but then Dom dies trying to get down. That's not really an issue except that instead of just continuing Marcus tries to go back and help him (which isn't possible) instead of just continuing. This wastes somewhere between 30 seconds and a full minute: depending on how long it takes Kim to warp.
The runners get the troika skip which is good. I didn't time it but I'd be curious to know if the troika on the rooftop is faster than the Hammer of Dawn in my run.
I'm a little confused about the Brezerker fight. They grenade the second and third door so they obviously know it's possible but for some reason they don't do the first which probably costs 10 seconds or so.
The boomer fight goes well. Dom throws two perfect grenades to down them quickly. But the next fight inside with the troika doesn't at all. The runners might want to consider a different strategy there. Outside after that goes really well though.
Dom is a little behind on the run down the street to the grub hole so it costs a couple seconds waiting for him to catch up with the Boomshot to close the hole. A little better planning in the previous fight could make sure he leads the way there.
Somehow they skip all three grubs before the gondola and still get it to activate. In all the current runs we killed them and I find it hard to believe we didn't test that so I'm a little curious as to how the managed that. Maybe it's just faster in single player to kill them so Dom will go and we never tested it in multi-player.
The runners find a shortcut that I cannot believe I never found. In the section just before pushing the car they skip running the long way by going through the darkness. It's not even that hard; I tested it and did it 3 times in a row with no failures. I know I tried that before I can't believe I never got it to work. Awesome find.
The runners are a little timid going through some of the darkness running sections but I can understand that being instant death and all.
The gas station is a little slow but not too bad. Partly because Marcus gets a little too close to his own grenade and partly due to just bad luck with grub movement.
Driving section goes fine. No comments.
In the defending the fort section Dom uses the boomshot he has been holding on to to close the holes quickly. Nice idea.
Again I'm confused about the plank section. As far as I know they took a path that shouldn't be possible. I would definitely want an explanation of that before I accepted the run.
The runners don't load last checkpoint at the wheel after the wretch fight to open the gate. This is in the current run and costs between 5 and 10 seconds. After that the boomer on the elevator takes a while to kill.
The out of bounds skip takes a couple dives to get but after that goes well; as does the corpser fight.
The pumping station goes smoothly as does the courtyard fight.
On the upstairs path Marcus misses killing a wretch which costs him a couple second because it interrupts his Hammer of Dawn blast.
After that there are a few execution errors and bad luck things on the split up running path for Marcus that cost a few seconds.
Marcus successfully grenades both Boomers before going down but then instead of leaving him Dom picks him up costing 5 seconds. Again at the Berzerker one goes down and the other unnecessarily picks them up costing time.
In the area with the troika and two holes Dom closes the first unnecessarily with a Hammer of Dawn shot costing a couple seconds to close the second. The first hole closes automatically when the wretch dies.
Some poor planning and really bad luck with the second hole inside the house cost a fair bit of time.
Clearing the basement goes well.
Defending the house is terrible. Dom wastes a lot of time picking up grenades and doesn't shoot from the top at all. He does downstairs to guard the door. At this point he should have a sniper and they should both be killing the enemies outside. I don't know how much time this wasted but it's a fair bit. If I had to hazard a guess I would say at least 10 seconds.
Poor planning on the train station. The first person to the grub hole didn't have a grenade or just didn't close it. Other than that it goes well enough.
The berzerker goes about as well as you could hope.
I'm not sure what the hell happens after that but he game glitches on Jak forcing the runners to load last checkpoint at a really costly spot.
The train roof goes well as does everything to the end.
Finally the Raam fight is pretty standard and good quality.
After the cut scene they skip picking up hammerbursts at the beginning which saves a second but then they don't use a grenade on the three grubs. Marcus takes too long to kill them causing Dom to have to wait 3-4 seconds at the gate for it to open. That's a pretty egregious error considering it's only 4 minutes into the run. I know when Brass and I ran the game we re-set a lot there. I suppose it could be excused since it's only 3 seconds and there are certainly a lot of other luck/execution things that can save significantly more than that.
Then they make an even worse error clearing out unnecessary grubs and a grub hole which costs 20 more seconds. I'm not sure this error can be excused. Every current run on the site skips the battle and only kills the three grubs after it. Only the three before the gate are required to kill for the gate to open.
After that things go well for a bit again. Dom does tend to throw grenades into holes late costing a second or two but he does go through the split-up hallway without killing anyone which saves time.
Once they get outside again Marcus picks up a grenade that I didn't even know existing and is significantly less out of the way than the one Brass picked up my run. Good job finding that.
They both clear the grubs coming out of the holes quickly but Dom should have peeled off earlier. He gets to the door well after it is already opened. There is some variation on how quickly the door opens so I suppose that's not really an issue.
The wretch hallway goes optimally. Marcus gets the Seeder 2 skip in one dive which is awesome; but then Dom dies trying to get down. That's not really an issue except that instead of just continuing Marcus tries to go back and help him (which isn't possible) instead of just continuing. This wastes somewhere between 30 seconds and a full minute: depending on how long it takes Kim to warp.
The runners get the troika skip which is good. I didn't time it but I'd be curious to know if the troika on the rooftop is faster than the Hammer of Dawn in my run.
I'm a little confused about the Brezerker fight. They grenade the second and third door so they obviously know it's possible but for some reason they don't do the first which probably costs 10 seconds or so.
The boomer fight goes well. Dom throws two perfect grenades to down them quickly. But the next fight inside with the troika doesn't at all. The runners might want to consider a different strategy there. Outside after that goes really well though.
Dom is a little behind on the run down the street to the grub hole so it costs a couple seconds waiting for him to catch up with the Boomshot to close the hole. A little better planning in the previous fight could make sure he leads the way there.
Somehow they skip all three grubs before the gondola and still get it to activate. In all the current runs we killed them and I find it hard to believe we didn't test that so I'm a little curious as to how the managed that. Maybe it's just faster in single player to kill them so Dom will go and we never tested it in multi-player.
The runners find a shortcut that I cannot believe I never found. In the section just before pushing the car they skip running the long way by going through the darkness. It's not even that hard; I tested it and did it 3 times in a row with no failures. I know I tried that before I can't believe I never got it to work. Awesome find.
The runners are a little timid going through some of the darkness running sections but I can understand that being instant death and all.
The gas station is a little slow but not too bad. Partly because Marcus gets a little too close to his own grenade and partly due to just bad luck with grub movement.
Driving section goes fine. No comments.
In the defending the fort section Dom uses the boomshot he has been holding on to to close the holes quickly. Nice idea.
Again I'm confused about the plank section. As far as I know they took a path that shouldn't be possible. I would definitely want an explanation of that before I accepted the run.
The runners don't load last checkpoint at the wheel after the wretch fight to open the gate. This is in the current run and costs between 5 and 10 seconds. After that the boomer on the elevator takes a while to kill.
The out of bounds skip takes a couple dives to get but after that goes well; as does the corpser fight.
The pumping station goes smoothly as does the courtyard fight.
On the upstairs path Marcus misses killing a wretch which costs him a couple second because it interrupts his Hammer of Dawn blast.
After that there are a few execution errors and bad luck things on the split up running path for Marcus that cost a few seconds.
Marcus successfully grenades both Boomers before going down but then instead of leaving him Dom picks him up costing 5 seconds. Again at the Berzerker one goes down and the other unnecessarily picks them up costing time.
In the area with the troika and two holes Dom closes the first unnecessarily with a Hammer of Dawn shot costing a couple seconds to close the second. The first hole closes automatically when the wretch dies.
Some poor planning and really bad luck with the second hole inside the house cost a fair bit of time.
Clearing the basement goes well.
Defending the house is terrible. Dom wastes a lot of time picking up grenades and doesn't shoot from the top at all. He does downstairs to guard the door. At this point he should have a sniper and they should both be killing the enemies outside. I don't know how much time this wasted but it's a fair bit. If I had to hazard a guess I would say at least 10 seconds.
Poor planning on the train station. The first person to the grub hole didn't have a grenade or just didn't close it. Other than that it goes well enough.
The berzerker goes about as well as you could hope.
I'm not sure what the hell happens after that but he game glitches on Jak forcing the runners to load last checkpoint at a really costly spot.
The train roof goes well as does everything to the end.
Finally the Raam fight is pretty standard and good quality.
Conclusion
I'm a little curious about the video run-times. The times I'm seeing on the videos are from the time the intro cut-scene is skipped to Raam's death. For Marcus's video I got a time of 1:33:21 and for Dom's I got a time of 1:33:36. I wouldn't be surprised if they were off by a second or two but 15 seconds seems a bit much. I'm not sure what this might indicate. Perhaps dropped frames in Marcus video?
I think I'm going to have to give this a reject even though it's faster than my current run. Despite being a minute faster than the current run there are numerous errors and failures to use the known fastest strategy. The run isn't bad it just very un-polished. It seems like the runners accepted the first run they got that was faster than the current record. With some better planning they could easily shave 2 minutes off of this run.
If the other verifiers over-rule me on accepting it we still definitely want an explanation as to how they got the plank section to work as they did. As I said in the comments I don't beleve that path is possible under any circumstance; or I have never seen it anyway.
Quote from brassmaster:
Like with Youkai, I too will admit that I am Brassmaster, the other runner from the previous record.
Note in the timing difference. Marcus’ side does drop frames, mostly in Act III. Timing from Dom’s side could be accurate. Also, at least in the verifier copy, Marcus’ video quality is not very good, especially in comparison to Dom’s.
When doing a run, please turn off notifications…
Dom needed to wait at the gate for the cutscene skip, why not use a grenade?
Whoa whoa! Why are you killing the grubs after the cutscene skip!? Only the last three need to die to continue! This was done in the current run so it should have been known.
Using a Lancer is probably not a great idea. Yes you get the chainsaw, but on Casual, it doesn’t take much from a Hammerburst to take them out, plus it should be faster then the chainsaw, and ammo should not be an issue.
Going back to pick up Dom after the seeder 2 skip? 2 things, 1 you don’t need to, and 2 you should be communicating during the run so that Dom can say “you can’t get to me.”
I’m not sure about the roof section strat at the end of Act I. neither of you should shoot the nemacysts, just go for the grubs. With the Hammer, they can take out the nemacysts without you knowing.
Not grenading the first berserker door? Why?
Building with the troika inside is a bit of a slow strat. With 2 players it is possible to Rambo through without much trouble. This is done in other sections, why not here?
Dom should NOT have gotten the snipers because this caused him to be late to plug the grub hole later.
Skipping the 3 grubs at the river crossing is something you can do in co op. I think me and Youkai were too used to killing them from our single player runs and forgot about that.
Whoa! Nice run through the dark. Yeah we definitely did not know about that
After the spot light, why was there hesitation? Just run. There is only 1 spot that game lag can screw you over in the dark and this isn’t it.
Gas Station fight could use a better strat at the start. Need one person to be ready for the boomer.
Driving could have gone a bit better.
Closing the holes with boomshots is a good idea.
Plank path is legit, though I didn’t think it would be possible, but I did test it. I don’t agree with doing this strat, but it works so I wont go against it.
Not reloading checkpoint to skip turning the wheel and cutscene?
Don’t pick marcus up at the boomers in act IV! There are sections where you need to pick them up (actually I can only think of one), and this isn’t one.
I’ve stupidly gone down to the berserker once in act IV, but you really shouldn’t…
Youkai is right about the grub hole that Dom got with the Hammer. The wretch’s death closes it and this causes time.
In the Fenix estate, close the hole and immediate go upstairs. Don’t linger.
Dom should not have a Torq at this point. They are useless for the most part in a speed run. Use a grenade, there are plenty laying around. Dom also isn’t doing much on the roof of the estate fight. He really should have a sniper instead of that Torq
End of Act IV, stay back from the door, the grub doesn’t open it when you are next to it.
Poor planning at the train station. First grub hole is one, the second is the 3rd sniper, no one shot him. The 4th sniper is on a timer from when the 3rd sniper dies or leaves, and since no one shot him, that’s why they had to wait. Also, on Dom’s screen, you can see Cole shooting at the sniper and you can see a shot from that sniper.
What the hell!? Jack shouldn’t be ripping that door, and they had to reload. To me this is an instant reset glitch. It sucks, I know, but it costs too much time.
Conclusion: Even though this beats the record by a minute (I can’t believe it does to be honest), I too am leaning towards a reject. 2nd chapter of Act I they killed extra grubs, went back for Dom at Seeder 2, didn’t reload checkpoint to skip a cutscene/wheel turn in Act III, Dom doing nothing at the Fenix Estate roof fight (should have a sniper instead of a Torq), Train Station planning and the Jack glitch all stand out in my mind. These are things the runners should have been aware of (Jack glitch aside, that just sucks). I am very happy another pair of runners went after and got the record, but there is too much here that they should have known before hand. I encourage the runners to keep going. Fix the things me and youkai have stated, and a sub 1:30 run could be in their grasp!
Note in the timing difference. Marcus’ side does drop frames, mostly in Act III. Timing from Dom’s side could be accurate. Also, at least in the verifier copy, Marcus’ video quality is not very good, especially in comparison to Dom’s.
When doing a run, please turn off notifications…
Dom needed to wait at the gate for the cutscene skip, why not use a grenade?
Whoa whoa! Why are you killing the grubs after the cutscene skip!? Only the last three need to die to continue! This was done in the current run so it should have been known.
Using a Lancer is probably not a great idea. Yes you get the chainsaw, but on Casual, it doesn’t take much from a Hammerburst to take them out, plus it should be faster then the chainsaw, and ammo should not be an issue.
Going back to pick up Dom after the seeder 2 skip? 2 things, 1 you don’t need to, and 2 you should be communicating during the run so that Dom can say “you can’t get to me.”
I’m not sure about the roof section strat at the end of Act I. neither of you should shoot the nemacysts, just go for the grubs. With the Hammer, they can take out the nemacysts without you knowing.
Not grenading the first berserker door? Why?
Building with the troika inside is a bit of a slow strat. With 2 players it is possible to Rambo through without much trouble. This is done in other sections, why not here?
Dom should NOT have gotten the snipers because this caused him to be late to plug the grub hole later.
Skipping the 3 grubs at the river crossing is something you can do in co op. I think me and Youkai were too used to killing them from our single player runs and forgot about that.
Whoa! Nice run through the dark. Yeah we definitely did not know about that
After the spot light, why was there hesitation? Just run. There is only 1 spot that game lag can screw you over in the dark and this isn’t it.
Gas Station fight could use a better strat at the start. Need one person to be ready for the boomer.
Driving could have gone a bit better.
Closing the holes with boomshots is a good idea.
Plank path is legit, though I didn’t think it would be possible, but I did test it. I don’t agree with doing this strat, but it works so I wont go against it.
Not reloading checkpoint to skip turning the wheel and cutscene?
Don’t pick marcus up at the boomers in act IV! There are sections where you need to pick them up (actually I can only think of one), and this isn’t one.
I’ve stupidly gone down to the berserker once in act IV, but you really shouldn’t…
Youkai is right about the grub hole that Dom got with the Hammer. The wretch’s death closes it and this causes time.
In the Fenix estate, close the hole and immediate go upstairs. Don’t linger.
Dom should not have a Torq at this point. They are useless for the most part in a speed run. Use a grenade, there are plenty laying around. Dom also isn’t doing much on the roof of the estate fight. He really should have a sniper instead of that Torq
End of Act IV, stay back from the door, the grub doesn’t open it when you are next to it.
Poor planning at the train station. First grub hole is one, the second is the 3rd sniper, no one shot him. The 4th sniper is on a timer from when the 3rd sniper dies or leaves, and since no one shot him, that’s why they had to wait. Also, on Dom’s screen, you can see Cole shooting at the sniper and you can see a shot from that sniper.
What the hell!? Jack shouldn’t be ripping that door, and they had to reload. To me this is an instant reset glitch. It sucks, I know, but it costs too much time.
Conclusion: Even though this beats the record by a minute (I can’t believe it does to be honest), I too am leaning towards a reject. 2nd chapter of Act I they killed extra grubs, went back for Dom at Seeder 2, didn’t reload checkpoint to skip a cutscene/wheel turn in Act III, Dom doing nothing at the Fenix Estate roof fight (should have a sniper instead of a Torq), Train Station planning and the Jack glitch all stand out in my mind. These are things the runners should have been aware of (Jack glitch aside, that just sucks). I am very happy another pair of runners went after and got the record, but there is too much here that they should have known before hand. I encourage the runners to keep going. Fix the things me and youkai have stated, and a sub 1:30 run could be in their grasp!
Quote:
Cheats: None Detected
A/V: Great (Marcus’ video appears to have dropped frames)
Time: 1:33:34
Thoughts:
There isn’t much more that I can say that Yokai and/or Brassmaster haven’t already. As a Casual player of GoW on the whole this run is good. As a speed runner there are many missed opportunities that make it suboptimal.
Final decision:
The lack of using faster know strats, and just over all rough looking game play I would have to
Reject It
It is a good run, but it feels like one of the first full runs that got recorded that beat the SDA time, it is just too rough to meet with current SDA quality standards.
(There are defiantly frames dropped I watched the two side by side in verification and they would slowly become de-synced without me noticing.)
A/V: Great (Marcus’ video appears to have dropped frames)
Time: 1:33:34
Thoughts:
There isn’t much more that I can say that Yokai and/or Brassmaster haven’t already. As a Casual player of GoW on the whole this run is good. As a speed runner there are many missed opportunities that make it suboptimal.
Final decision:
The lack of using faster know strats, and just over all rough looking game play I would have to
Reject It
It is a good run, but it feels like one of the first full runs that got recorded that beat the SDA time, it is just too rough to meet with current SDA quality standards.
(There are defiantly frames dropped I watched the two side by side in verification and they would slowly become de-synced without me noticing.)
Decision: Reject
Reason: Despite being faster than the existing run, the new strategies should make up for more time than this
https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/queue/verificationfiles/521/
This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.
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