Gauntlet: Legends/Dark Legacy Discussion

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-04-02 11:10:35 pm

2006-04-02 10:44:59 pm

Never give up!

Okay, so on a whim today I decided to search the forums and see if anyone had mentioned either Gauntlet: Legends (I recall it being for N64, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were on other systems) or Gauntlet: Dark Legacy (Gamecube, PS2, and XBox are the systems I recall seeing it for) in a previous discussion.

The only thread I found regarding Gauntlet: Dark Legacy was... not all that serious-sounding, let's just say. As for Legends, I had heard that someone here (who I shall not name unless he steps up, although he HAS sent runs in to SDA before) had considered rounding up some of his buddies to do a run of that game.

So, in the interests of discussion, I'd like to start up a topic for both games together, intending to ultimately lead up to the actual speedrunning of both games.

I'll start off with some advice to those who consider running Gauntlet: Legends. Of these two games, that's the one I've actually completed in its entirety, and I remember it somewhat better as well. With that said, here are my thoughts:

-Since it's a bit more of a precious commodity in Legends than in Dark Legacy, save the gold for powerups that can help slaughter bosses - don't spend it on stats. (I don't remember if it's possible to buy maximum health in Legends - I know it's not possible in Dark Legacy - but if max health can be bought in Legends that's the only potential exception.)
-I really suggest skipping the Ice Axe of Untar - that's the one Legend Item that is trash in this game. (Dark Legacy's a whole different story as far as this goes, however.)
-The one boss you should wait to fight is the Plague Fiend, unless you're overloaded on powerups as it is, in which case you may be able to get away with fighting him without the Javelin.
-In the testing before a run, make sure you find out how many powerups you can have active at once. That's generally the number you should have active for any given boss.
-Speed burst powerups for all, obviously.
-Skip the bonus characters, unless there's some benefit to them that I forgot.
-Re-entering levels for powerups is a questionable idea, but it's less questionable later in the game (or with multiple characters). The first and fourth Mountain levels, I believe, are among the best levels to replay several times, if replaying any levels at all is viable.

I'll mention stuff about Dark Legacy a bit later. In the meantime, feel free to express your own thoughts on what people who would speedrun either game should do.

Thread title:

Okay, so on a whim today I decided to search the forums and see if anyone had mentioned either Gauntlet: Legends (I recall it being for N64, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were on other systems) or Gauntlet: Dark Legacy (Gamecube, PS2, and XBox are the systems I recall seeing it for) in a previous discussion.

The only thread I found regarding Gauntlet: Dark Legacy was... not all that serious-sounding, let's just say.  As for Legends, I had heard that someone here (who I shall not name unless he steps up, although he HAS sent runs in to SDA before) had considered rounding up some of his buddies to do a run of that game.

So, in the interests of discussion, I'd like to start up a topic for both games together, intending to ultimately lead up to the actual speedrunning of both games.

I'll start off with some advice to those who consider running Gauntlet: Legends.  Of these two games, that's the one I've actually completed in its entirety, and I remember it somewhat better as well.  With that said, here are my thoughts:

-Since it's a bit more of a precious commodity in Legends than in Dark Legacy, save the gold for powerups that can help slaughter bosses - don't spend it on stats.  (I don't remember if it's possible to buy maximum health in Legends - I know it's not possible in Dark Legacy - but if max health can be bought in Legends that's the only potential exception.)
-I really suggest skipping the Ice Axe of Untar - that's the one Legend Item that is trash in this game.  (Dark Legacy's a whole different story as far as this goes, however.)
-The one boss you should wait to fight is the Plague Fiend, unless you're overloaded on powerups as it is, in which case you may be able to get away with fighting him without the Javelin.
-In the testing before a run, make sure you find out how many powerups you can have active at once.  That's generally the number you should have active for any given boss.
-Speed burst powerups for all, obviously.
-Skip the bonus characters, unless there's some benefit to them that I forgot.
-Re-entering levels for powerups is a questionable idea, but it's less questionable later in the game (or with multiple characters).  The first and fourth Mountain levels, I believe, are among the best levels to replay several times, if replaying any levels at all is viable.

I'll mention stuff about Dark Legacy a bit later.  In the meantime, feel free to express your own thoughts on what people who would speedrun either game should do.

Serious_Cacodemon

2006-04-02 11:28:00 pm

Obey the Daleks or be Exterminated! Riiiiiiight...

In Dark Legacy, there are a certain number of gems for each color that need to be collected to access each of the eight realms, and all the shards are needed to enter first Skorne's level, and 12 runestones are needed to access the second Skorne level. The true final battle requires finding the 13th runestone in one of the final levels.

I'm pretty sure the final boss of the game can be killed using Super Shot and/or Thunder Hammer abuse, which is usually buying tons of either item (with three way shot for Super Shot) and then running up to him and shooting him to death.

AquaTiger

2006-04-02 11:45:17 pm

Never give up!

Quote:

In Dark Legacy, there are a certain number of gems for each color that need to be collected to access each of the eight realms, and all the shards are needed to enter first Skorne's level, and 12 runestones are needed to access the second Skorne level. The true final battle requires finding the 13th runestone in one of the final levels.

I'm pretty sure the final boss of the game can be killed using Super Shot and/or Thunder Hammer abuse, which is usually buying tons of either item (with three way shot for Super Shot) and then running up to him and shooting him to death.

The crystals, particularly later on, are going to be a REAL pain.

Getting the crystals required for the first two realms isn't going to require backtracking, THAT I do remember. The crystals needed for any realm after that, if I remember the game correctly, are GOING to require backtracking.

Any ideas what levels are the best for getting any of the crystal types that open the last six realms? Also, as an extension, any ideas what levels would be the best for getting Golden Icons (fangs/feathers/claws) to open up other parts of the tower?

Also, another idea I had was that whoever runs Dark Legacy should clear all the non-boss levels in the first FIVE realms before fighting ANY bosses whatsoever (and then fighting the first four bosses back-to-back). I don't imagine anyone fighting all eight bosses in a row, but my point is that fighting bosses right away is tantamount to suicide. And that's only from a 'levels' perspective.

I'll investigate the Super Shot/Thunder Hammer abuse thing once I can get the game from my brother (he has the PS2 version but no longer plays it).

[quote]In Dark Legacy, there are a certain number of gems for each color that need to be collected to access each of the eight realms, and all the shards are needed to enter first Skorne's level, and 12 runestones are needed to access the second Skorne level.  The true final battle requires finding the 13th runestone in one of the final levels.

I'm pretty sure the final boss of the game can be killed using Super Shot and/or Thunder Hammer abuse, which is usually buying tons of either item (with three way shot for Super Shot) and then running up to him and shooting him to death.[/quote]

The crystals, particularly later on, are going to be a REAL pain.

Getting the crystals required for the first two realms isn't going to require backtracking, THAT I do remember.  The crystals needed for any realm after that, if I remember the game correctly, are GOING to require backtracking.

Any ideas what levels are the best for getting any of the crystal types that open the last six realms?  Also, as an extension, any ideas what levels would be the best for getting Golden Icons (fangs/feathers/claws) to open up other parts of the tower?

Also, another idea I had was that whoever runs Dark Legacy should clear all the non-boss levels in the first FIVE realms before fighting ANY bosses whatsoever (and then fighting the first four bosses back-to-back).  I don't imagine anyone fighting all eight bosses in a row, but my point is that fighting bosses right away is tantamount to suicide.  And that's only from a 'levels' perspective.

I'll investigate the Super Shot/Thunder Hammer abuse thing once I can get the game from my brother (he has the PS2 version but no longer plays it).

Amazing Ampharos

2006-04-03 12:30:25 am

If you get every crystal availiable, you only need to backtrack for the last world which you miss by a dismal one crystal(seriously, not cool guys). Add that to the fact that Dark Legacy is twice as long and has some seriously questionable programming and I think it works out the legends is the better one to run.

As per character selection, you run into an interesting situation. A party full of archers would do it the fastest, but the Warrior kills bosses way faster than she will. On that note, I don't think the Wizard or the Valkerie are really worth considering. And since you're only as fast as your slowest member, I think you're really thinking about however many players you can round up as all Warriors or all Archers. Also, in legends the first secret character is the Minotaur so it might be worth unlocking him and switching all your characters to that. I mean, he's basically the warrior with better stats. You might just be all archers at the very beginning and then switch over permanently to Minotaurs after that. Hmm, on that note, does experience work the same way in this one as it does in Dark Legacy? I honestly can't remember, and it might be possible to just switch characters level to level.

If you get every crystal availiable, you only need to backtrack for the last world which you miss by a dismal one crystal(seriously, not cool guys).  Add that to the fact that Dark Legacy is twice as long and has some seriously questionable programming and I think it works out the legends is the better one to run.

As per character selection, you run into an interesting situation.  A party full of archers would do it the fastest, but the Warrior kills bosses way faster than she will.  On that note, I don't think the Wizard or the Valkerie are really worth considering.  And since you're only as fast as your slowest member, I think you're really thinking about however many players you can round up as all Warriors or all Archers.  Also, in legends the first secret character is the Minotaur so it might be worth unlocking him and switching all your characters to that.  I mean, he's basically the warrior with better stats.  You might just be all archers at the very beginning and then switch over permanently to Minotaurs after that.  Hmm, on that note, does experience work the same way in this one as it does in Dark Legacy?  I honestly can't remember, and it might be possible to just switch characters level to level.

bologna

Edit history:

bologna: 2006-04-03 12:33:11 am

2006-04-03 12:32:29 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

okay dark legacy my old fav game Tongue

hammer/supershot(3way) abuse
Okay hammer can do massive amounts of damage really quickly, but ofcourse it runs out, same thing with the super shot. anyway, i used to use this for skorne and could whop his butt no problem. A quick way to make alot of money is just do the dragon over and over again for a easy boss battle but about 7000-8000 gold per run. This makes buying hammer and super shots much easier. And combining the Supershot and 3 way + being close makes every shot hit meaning 3 hits for the price of one. (Same thing as charged bolts in d2)

Now for the actual run. I'm pretty sure your going to use either the archer/jester or knight am i correct? i believe that the jester/archer is a good choice becuase the attack and run really quickly biggest things you need to keep stocked are keys and potions (yes potions tossing one into a fray can fry enemies pretty quickly from what i can remember) and the knight has good speed and defence so he can tank hits while killing quickly.

Using your turbo may be your choice, yes it moves you quicker but you can do massive amounts of damage with turbo attacks and clear rooms.

The only legend items i can really say you need are the book for the lich, scroll for the yeti and javelin for the slime thing (forgot name)

i'll write more tomorrow, i'm about to play some pool. if you need anymore just add me to msn sepiroth_89@hotmail.com or just use pm's.

I Love this game and i'd be glad to help you in anyway shape or form

-bologna

okay dark legacy my old fav game  :P

hammer/supershot(3way) abuse
Okay hammer can do massive amounts of damage really quickly, but ofcourse it runs out, same thing with the super shot. anyway, i used to use this for skorne and could whop his butt no problem. A quick way to make alot of money is just do the dragon over and over again for a easy boss battle but about 7000-8000 gold per run. This makes buying hammer and super shots much easier. And combining the Supershot and 3 way + being close makes every shot hit meaning 3 hits for the price of one. (Same thing as charged bolts in d2)

Now for the actual run. I'm pretty sure your going to use either the archer/jester or knight am i correct? i believe that the jester/archer is a good choice becuase the attack and run really quickly biggest things you need to keep stocked are keys and potions (yes potions tossing one into a fray can fry enemies pretty quickly from what i can remember) and the knight has good speed and defence so he can tank hits while killing quickly.

Using your turbo may be your choice, yes it moves you quicker but you can do massive amounts of damage with turbo attacks and clear rooms.

The only legend items i can really say you need are the book for the lich, scroll for the yeti and javelin for the slime thing (forgot name)

i'll write more tomorrow, i'm about to play some pool. if you need anymore just add me to msn sepiroth_89@hotmail.com or just use pm's.

I Love this game and i'd be glad to help you in anyway shape or form

-bologna

AquaTiger

2006-04-03 01:02:39 am

Never give up!

Quote:

If you get every crystal availiable, you only need to backtrack for the last world which you miss by a dismal one crystal(seriously, not cool guys). Add that to the fact that Dark Legacy is twice as long and has some seriously questionable programming and I think it works out the legends is the better one to run.

As per character selection, you run into an interesting situation. A party full of archers would do it the fastest, but the Warrior kills bosses way faster than she will. On that note, I don't think the Wizard or the Valkerie are really worth considering. And since you're only as fast as your slowest member, I think you're really thinking about however many players you can round up as all Warriors or all Archers. Also, in legends the first secret character is the Minotaur so it might be worth unlocking him and switching all your characters to that. I mean, he's basically the warrior with better stats. You might just be all archers at the very beginning and then switch over permanently to Minotaurs after that. Hmm, on that note, does experience work the same way in this one as it does in Dark Legacy? I honestly can't remember, and it might be possible to just switch characters level to level.

Hmmm.... looks like I can just worry about mapping out areas. Of course, I am fairly certain there will be some crystals that are just not worth going after in a given level - that are far enough out of the way that backtracking to another level is faster.

I wouldn't be able to run Legends due to not having an N64 or the funds to buy one, so Dark Legacy would be the only one I'd run at this time. (I can get my brother's copy of Dark Legacy, so paying for that one isn't a problem.)

As for experience in Dark Legacy.... it only grows for a specific character. Meaning if you switch, you start at level 1 all over again. I think this might potentially mean a Dark Legacy player cannot switch characters mid-game and expect to do well.

If I were to run Dark Legacy, the first thing I'd ask myself is whether the Wizard's Rock Shower (level 2 turbo attack) is suitable, as far as area of effect and damage, to use on bosses. If it is, there's a chance I'd use him - you're going to want to avoid enemies as much as possible, and using magic to destroy the necessary ones quickly works best with the Wizard. Otherwise, I'd use the Archer - HER level 2 turbo attack, to my knowledge, is a bit more useful than the Jester's, plus she's a bit more powerful, particularly at the start.

Quote:

okay dark legacy my old fav game Tongue

hammer/supershot(3way) abuse
Okay hammer can do massive amounts of damage really quickly, but ofcourse it runs out, same thing with the super shot. anyway, i used to use this for skorne and could whop his butt no problem. A quick way to make alot of money is just do the dragon over and over again for a easy boss battle but about 7000-8000 gold per run. This makes buying hammer and super shots much easier. And combining the Supershot and 3 way + being close makes every shot hit meaning 3 hits for the price of one. (Same thing as charged bolts in d2)

Now for the actual run. I'm pretty sure your going to use either the archer/jester or knight am i correct? i believe that the jester/archer is a good choice becuase the attack and run really quickly biggest things you need to keep stocked are keys and potions (yes potions tossing one into a fray can fry enemies pretty quickly from what i can remember) and the knight has good speed and defence so he can tank hits while killing quickly.

Using your turbo may be your choice, yes it moves you quicker but you can do massive amounts of damage with turbo attacks and clear rooms.

The only legend items i can really say you need are the book for the lich, scroll for the yeti and javelin for the slime thing (forgot name)

i'll write more tomorrow, i'm about to play some pool. if you need anymore just add me to msn sepiroth_89@hotmail.com or just use pm's.

I Love this game and i'd be glad to help you in anyway shape or form

-bologna

Hmmm.... I thought it was the Chimera that gave 7000-8000 Gold. Oh well.

Ah yes, potion throwing. That's definitely something to consider abusing (assuming that potion hits also give experience - I didn't look into this one).

I've hinted above that the Archer would be one of my more likely choices. I think the Jester might be a bit too weak, and while the Knight's an interesting idea, I'm not entirely sure he's fast enough.

Anyway, I expect that right before entering the Cathedral, the Underworld, and the final battle, I'm going to have to harvest either the Chimera or Spider Queen for gold (experience is just a side effect here) to refill health. I might have to do the same thing before fighting the Genie, the Shadow Wraith, and possibly the Yeti if I find they're nasty enough bosses.

By the way, the 'slime thing' would be the Plague Fiend.

I believe the thing to do with the Legend Items would be determine how much time it takes to get each one, find out how much time it saves against the boss, and compare. But I agree that the Javelin is a must.

On a side note, there's one rumor I'd like to investigate. I've heard from a couple of sources that the character color you pick can make certain powerups (namely the amulets and breath attacks) stronger. I honestly think that's BS, but I don't have definitive proof of that, unfortunately.

[quote]If you get every crystal availiable, you only need to backtrack for the last world which you miss by a dismal one crystal(seriously, not cool guys).  Add that to the fact that Dark Legacy is twice as long and has some seriously questionable programming and I think it works out the legends is the better one to run.

As per character selection, you run into an interesting situation.  A party full of archers would do it the fastest, but the Warrior kills bosses way faster than she will.  On that note, I don't think the Wizard or the Valkerie are really worth considering.  And since you're only as fast as your slowest member, I think you're really thinking about however many players you can round up as all Warriors or all Archers.  Also, in legends the first secret character is the Minotaur so it might be worth unlocking him and switching all your characters to that.  I mean, he's basically the warrior with better stats.  You might just be all archers at the very beginning and then switch over permanently to Minotaurs after that.  Hmm, on that note, does experience work the same way in this one as it does in Dark Legacy?  I honestly can't remember, and it might be possible to just switch characters level to level.[/quote]

Hmmm.... looks like I can just worry about mapping out areas.  Of course, I am fairly certain there will be some crystals that are just not worth going after in a given level - that are far enough out of the way that backtracking to another level is faster.

I wouldn't be able to run Legends due to not having an N64 or the funds to buy one, so Dark Legacy would be the only one I'd run at this time. (I can get my brother's copy of Dark Legacy, so paying for that one isn't a problem.)

As for experience in Dark Legacy.... it only grows for a specific character.  Meaning if you switch, you start at level 1 all over again.  I think this might potentially mean a Dark Legacy player cannot switch characters mid-game and expect to do well.

If I were to run Dark Legacy, the first thing I'd ask myself is whether the Wizard's Rock Shower (level 2 turbo attack) is suitable, as far as area of effect and damage, to use on bosses.  If it is, there's a chance I'd use him - you're going to want to avoid enemies as much as possible, and using magic to destroy the necessary ones quickly works best with the Wizard.  Otherwise, I'd use the Archer - HER level 2 turbo attack, to my knowledge, is a bit more useful than the Jester's, plus she's a bit more powerful, particularly at the start.

[quote]okay dark legacy my old fav game  :P

hammer/supershot(3way) abuse
Okay hammer can do massive amounts of damage really quickly, but ofcourse it runs out, same thing with the super shot. anyway, i used to use this for skorne and could whop his butt no problem. A quick way to make alot of money is just do the dragon over and over again for a easy boss battle but about 7000-8000 gold per run. This makes buying hammer and super shots much easier. And combining the Supershot and 3 way + being close makes every shot hit meaning 3 hits for the price of one. (Same thing as charged bolts in d2)

Now for the actual run. I'm pretty sure your going to use either the archer/jester or knight am i correct? i believe that the jester/archer is a good choice becuase the attack and run really quickly biggest things you need to keep stocked are keys and potions (yes potions tossing one into a fray can fry enemies pretty quickly from what i can remember) and the knight has good speed and defence so he can tank hits while killing quickly.

Using your turbo may be your choice, yes it moves you quicker but you can do massive amounts of damage with turbo attacks and clear rooms.

The only legend items i can really say you need are the book for the lich, scroll for the yeti and javelin for the slime thing (forgot name)

i'll write more tomorrow, i'm about to play some pool. if you need anymore just add me to msn sepiroth_89@hotmail.com or just use pm's.

I Love this game and i'd be glad to help you in anyway shape or form

-bologna[/quote]

Hmmm.... I thought it was the Chimera that gave 7000-8000 Gold.  Oh well.

Ah yes, potion throwing.  That's definitely something to consider abusing (assuming that potion hits also give experience - I didn't look into this one).

I've hinted above that the Archer would be one of my more likely choices.  I think the Jester might be a bit too weak, and while the Knight's an interesting idea, I'm not entirely sure he's fast enough.

Anyway, I expect that right before entering the Cathedral, the Underworld, and the final battle, I'm going to have to harvest either the Chimera or Spider Queen for gold (experience is just a side effect here) to refill health.  I might have to do the same thing before fighting the Genie, the Shadow Wraith, and possibly the Yeti if I find they're nasty enough bosses.

By the way, the 'slime thing' would be the Plague Fiend.

I believe the thing to do with the Legend Items would be determine how much time it takes to get each one, find out how much time it saves against the boss, and compare.  But I agree that the Javelin is a must.

On a side note, there's one rumor I'd like to investigate.  I've heard from a couple of sources that the character color you pick can make certain powerups (namely the amulets and breath attacks) stronger.  I honestly think that's BS, but I don't have definitive proof of that, unfortunately.

bologna

2006-04-03 01:34:28 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

the color thing is not real.

all the colors do is change you small upgrade attack (A Y A) like the jester dropping the big box.

and like i said, i'll help you with this run if you need, and if your not done by may, i'll have to be your competition for this (thats when i get my capt card)

Yoshi348

2006-04-03 03:25:47 am

dinosaur from the past

The PS2 version of Dark Legacy would be a seperate category and overall slower than the GC because you can't turn off items and save them for later. I'm not sure what the XBOX version is, but IIRC it's one or the other, not some new freakish combination. Unlike Legends, in the GC version you can actually turn off and save anti-death, which with the experience deaths would probably be most useful. The GC version also has a few extra items, but I don't remember any of them being particularly useful. (Never played the PS2 version, but it's obvious which ones are new... the font for them is completely different and stuff.)

In Dark Legacy, characters don't just have seperate experience... they're utterly different files, basically. You start over from the beginning of the game.

As far as the crystals go, I don't remember ever backtracking much, although of course I was grabbing everything I could find.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-04-03 03:40:22 am

I think in legends it'd be worth switching characters midstream if you went the warrior route as the extra starting stats of the Minotaur would far outweigh the levels you would get in the first few levels. In Dark Legacy, I'd agree with staying the course with one character as the characters are completely separate and the first secret character, the upgraded Sorceress, is completely useless. Hmm, why would you use the Knight over the Warrior/Dwarf? Specials are nice, but I'd think the power of the basic attacks would be the primary concern in damage dealing(unless you are looking as something as potentially devastating as the Wizard's rock shower). I'm pretty sure the power characters can not only kill bosses faster but probably squeeze by at lower levels than the other characters. As cool as special weapons are, I don't think when going through the levels fast you'd have enough gold to buy enough weaponry to kill the bosses just with that so the characters attack stat becomes really important. The archer would lose a lot of time in this regard(and the Jester even more; I wouldn't use him over her). I don't know if it's enough to make up for how her faster running speed makes everything else faster, but it's worth looking into.

I think in legends it'd be worth switching characters midstream if you went the warrior route as the extra starting stats of the Minotaur would far outweigh the levels you would get in the first few levels.  In Dark Legacy, I'd agree with staying the course with one character as the characters are completely separate and the first secret character, the upgraded Sorceress, is completely useless.  Hmm, why would you use the Knight over the Warrior/Dwarf?  Specials are nice, but I'd think the power of the basic attacks would be the primary concern in damage dealing(unless you are looking as something as potentially devastating as the Wizard's rock shower).  I'm pretty sure the power characters can not only kill bosses faster but probably squeeze by at lower levels than the other characters.  As cool as special weapons are, I don't think when going through the levels fast you'd have enough gold to buy enough weaponry to kill the bosses just with that so the characters attack stat becomes really important.  The archer would lose a lot of time in this regard(and the Jester even more; I wouldn't use him over her).  I don't know if it's enough to make up for how her faster running speed makes everything else faster, but it's worth looking into.

NintenDan

2006-04-03 04:16:35 am

My friends and I have been playing Legends lately just to relive the memory, but the thought of speedrunning has occured to me on more then one occasion.

We're simply just trying to beat it now, but a speedrun sounds intriguing. It seems most people are into speedrunning dark legacy (which I've never played) so perhaps I can talk my friends into considering this...or maybe save it for the summer...guess we'll have to see

Just know that I'd love to do a run on Gauntlet Legends (assuming I can beat it first...)

DTaeKim

2006-04-03 04:41:18 am

Actually, the Wizard wouldn't be a bad choice.

Rock Shower, the Wizard's Yellow turbo attack, can eliminate 1/4 of the Dragon's health, for example. It can also deal some serious damage to the Yeti as well. I'm not sure about its effectiveness against the Plague Fiend and the Chimera.

AquaTiger-notloggedin

2006-04-19 03:16:42 pm

I'd just like to let people know that I have not completely forgotten about this discussion. It's just that I haven't had the chance to get Dark Legacy from my brother yet. I will definitely have another update once that happens.

Anyway, here's how I thought a Dark Legacy run should be segmented ('no boss' means don't fight the boss yet):

1. Forsaken Province (no boss)
2. Mountain realm (no boss)
3. Castle realm (no boss)
4. Sky realm (no boss)
5. Forest realm (no boss)
6. Fight the Lich, Dragon, Chimera, and Plague Fiend
7. Desert realm (no boss)
8. Ice Realm (no boss)
9. Fight the Spider Queen, Genie, and Yeti
10. Dream realm (no boss)
11. Shadow Wraith
12. Cathedral and first Skorne
13. Underworld and true Skorne
14. Battlegrounds
15. Final battle

I'd actually like to hear if this should be restructured.

Yoshi348

2006-04-19 08:22:25 pm

dinosaur from the past

Hmm... it looks more like you're segementing based on the various "chapters" of the game, rather than where it would really help the most. Of course, this often times gets you rather close... but is the Shadow Wraith really hard enough to deserve its own segment?

Of course, if have played around a bit and these really work, go for it. I don't have a good memory on where the tough parts are in this game. Just make sure you aren't segmenting on autopilot.

bologna

2006-04-19 09:22:07 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

shadow wraith is like sitting through 4 exams, it just sucks >.< i do belive that your sequence of levels is a good choice.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2006-04-19 11:12:02 pm

2006-04-19 11:09:44 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Quote:

As for Legends, I had heard that someone here (who I shall not name unless he steps up, although he HAS sent runs in to SDA before) had considered rounding up some of his buddies to do a run of that game.

Lol; alright, I'm finally here.

Yeah, we've recorded the first segment for Gauntlet Legends; we plan to make five or possibly six. This run will be finished by the end of summer, or I'll bludgeon my uncooperative friends with my obsolete (and utterly decrepit) VCR, if the case may be.

That being said, the run we're doing is....

... really not what you're expecting. Roll Eyes

In fact, I hesitate even alluding to it; I feel like many will be disappointed before even truly considering the idea. [Now I've probably given it away] Keep up your discussion; someone else should attempt to speedrun the game, anyway... Wink

bologna

Edit history:

bologna: 2006-04-20 03:26:41 am

2006-04-20 03:26:14 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'm thinking of doing this but, i'll have to team with my brother and do it during summer holidays >.< (law is taking all my time away)

anyways can i ask what characters you people decided on using?

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2006-04-20 12:06:13 pm

2006-04-20 12:01:42 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

All wizards, for our run (entirely for rock shower; the dragon can be decimated before all four characters even perform the move). Wink

AquaTiger

2006-04-20 01:32:30 pm

Never give up!

Since I still haven't had much chance to play around with the game yet, my current choice is the archer.

Mainly because I need my attacks to be quite speedy.

InsipidMuckyWater

2006-04-20 06:56:46 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Quote:

Since I still haven't had much chance to play around with the game yet, my current choice is the archer.

Mainly because I need my attacks to be quite speedy.

Go for it! Wink

It's hard to explain, but for our run, some things will be inherently different, and different strategies might be required. For that reason, your conclusions are probably entirely valid, even if they differ from ours. Good luck!

Yoshi348

Edit history:

Yoshi348: 2006-04-21 05:18:07 am

2006-04-21 05:17:02 am

dinosaur from the past

You're running with Sumners, aren't you? (Or is that Dark Legacy?)

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2006-04-21 05:38:36 am

2006-04-21 05:38:11 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

No, but good guess. I believe using unlockable characters for a preliminary run would be unacceptable, if said rule still stands...

AquaTiger

2006-05-11 04:02:11 pm

Never give up!

Something of an update on my end.

I'll have a chance to get the game from my brother this weekend, as I have to head out to where he is anyway. So I could begin looking into this game by Sunday.

As far as the situation with characters goes, I am UNDOUBTEDLY going with the Archer. The speed difference between her and the Wizard (I recall the Archer having around double the speed of the Wizard) more than makes up for the lack of a boss-slaying special, since my goal will be to avoid enemies as much as I can.

I do need to add up what powerups I can have in use for the boss. My currently considered powerup configuration for bosses, assuming I remember the game well enough, would be having the Light Amulet, the Phoenix, Invulnerability (yes, that CAN be bought in Dark Legacy), 3-way Shot, Growth, and Rapid Fire available all at once. I don't THINK any of those powerups conflict (if some conflict, then only one of that group will work), but if any do, I'll adjust. Also keep in mind I've yet to investigate the Super Shot and Thunder Hammer, and I plan to do just that.

As far as capturing goes - I've nearly figured out the problem with my good computer, and once it's completely fixed I'll put it to use. For long practice sessions, I'll probably capture on VHS and transfer, but when I get around to a final run, assuming I don't have a DVD recorder by then, I'll be sticking with live capture.

Something of an update on my end.

I'll have a chance to get the game from my brother this weekend, as I have to head out to where he is anyway.  So I could begin looking into this game by Sunday.

As far as the situation with characters goes, I am UNDOUBTEDLY going with the Archer.  The speed difference between her and the Wizard (I recall the Archer having around double the speed of the Wizard) more than makes up for the lack of a boss-slaying special, since my goal will be to avoid enemies as much as I can.

I do need to add up what powerups I can have in use for the boss.  My currently considered powerup configuration for bosses, assuming I remember the game well enough, would be having the Light Amulet, the Phoenix, Invulnerability (yes, that CAN be bought in Dark Legacy), 3-way Shot, Growth, and Rapid Fire available all at once.  I don't THINK any of those powerups conflict (if some conflict, then only one of that group will work), but if any do, I'll adjust.  Also keep in mind I've yet to investigate the Super Shot and Thunder Hammer, and I plan to do just that.

As far as capturing goes - I've nearly figured out the problem with my good computer, and once it's completely fixed I'll put it to use.  For long practice sessions, I'll probably capture on VHS and transfer, but when I get around to a final run, assuming I don't have a DVD recorder by then, I'll be sticking with live capture.

Yoshi348

2006-05-11 08:20:11 pm

dinosaur from the past

Was it Legends or Legacy that had the one glitch I can't quite remember involving Super Shots and mass boss death? I'll go look it up and edit if I find anything.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-05-15 12:21:16 am

2006-05-14 08:51:06 pm

Never give up!

Alright, I finally have my hands on the game, and here's some things I've already deduced about the game that I hadn't known for sure before:

-Super Shot, when combined with 3-Way Shot, does insane damage to bosses. I can even kill them with that alone if things are just right.
-The Thunder Hammer is really a no-go on bosses, mainly due to what I pointed out above and since the Thunder Hammer doesn't deal much damage against a boss.
-The best boss to harvest for gold and experience is the Spider Queen. 2 levels, 11000 gold, and with the Super Shot/3-Way Shot strategy, I think she can be beaten in under 15 seconds (timed from when she's done crawling up).
-I will need to determine what amulet works best on which boss in the course of planning. As far as I know, certain amulets are stronger against certain bosses - for instance, at least once the Super Shots are gone, I foresee using the Light Amulet on the Lich and the Shadow Wraith, and the Fire Amulet on the Spider Queen and the Yeti.
-In the PS2 version, powerups last half as long (at best) against bosses. Powerups with shot counters (Super Shots, for instance) are not affected. Therefore, I will have to buy at least two of every powerup I want to use (I'll probably buy three of each).
-The Archer's Level 2 and Level 3 Turbo Attacks (Double Bow and BFG) are absolutely DEVASTATING at close range, even though both can hit beyond that, because you can hit the enemy with multiple shots in a row. Two uses of Double Bow is probably how I'm going to handle Gargoyle-type enemies.

One thing I want to ask is whether Super Shot deals out an attack that is multiple times the power of the base attack or deals fixed damage that is much higher than any attack power that could be gotten normally. If it increases damage by a large multiple, I have a case for buying Strength (I'll probably do some of that anyway to make certain parts of the levels go faster). If it deals fixed damage, however, I shouldn't be buying much Strength, and can instead pour extraneous gold into buying Armor (I will probably NEED Armor to survive the levels).

Edit: Also, I think I'm going to do a route change to make things go faster. I'm going to wait until just before I would go into the Dream Realm to face the first seven bosses in a row, rather than my current strategy of splitting the boss fight series up. If I find that the Shadow Wraith is easier than first predicted, I'll do all eight bosses in one segment.

The current route will probably go like this:

Segment 1-8: The corresponding Realms, excluding the bosses. Note that I will likely need to backtrack in segment 7.
Segment 9: I could crack a really stupid joke here, but anyway, this segment's basically a boss rush.
Segment 10: Cathedral, easily
Segment 11: Underworld
Segment 12: All three main stages in the Battlegrounds
Segment 13: Fight the Queen Spider until I have full health and can get full powerups, then finish off Garm

Alright, I finally have my hands on the game, and here's some things I've already deduced about the game that I hadn't known for sure before:

-Super Shot, when combined with 3-Way Shot, does insane damage to bosses.  I can even kill them with that alone if things are just right.
-The Thunder Hammer is really a no-go on bosses, mainly due to what I pointed out above and since the Thunder Hammer doesn't deal much damage against a boss.
-The best boss to harvest for gold and experience is the Spider Queen.  2 levels, 11000 gold, and with the Super Shot/3-Way Shot strategy, I think she can be beaten in under 15 seconds (timed from when she's done crawling up).
-I will need to determine what amulet works best on which boss in the course of planning.  As far as I know, certain amulets are stronger against certain bosses - for instance, at least once the Super Shots are gone, I foresee using the Light Amulet on the Lich and the Shadow Wraith, and the Fire Amulet on the Spider Queen and the Yeti.
-In the PS2 version, powerups last half as long (at best) against bosses.  Powerups with shot counters (Super Shots, for instance) are not affected.  Therefore, I will have to buy at least two of every powerup I want to use (I'll probably buy three of each).
-The Archer's Level 2 and Level 3 Turbo Attacks (Double Bow and BFG) are absolutely DEVASTATING at close range, even though both can hit beyond that, because you can hit the enemy with multiple shots in a row.  Two uses of Double Bow is probably how I'm going to handle Gargoyle-type enemies.

One thing I want to ask is whether Super Shot deals out an attack that is multiple times the power of the base attack or deals fixed damage that is much higher than any attack power that could be gotten normally.  If it increases damage by a large multiple, I have a case for buying Strength (I'll probably do some of that anyway to make certain parts of the levels go faster).  If it deals fixed damage, however, I shouldn't be buying much Strength, and can instead pour extraneous gold into buying Armor (I will probably NEED Armor to survive the levels).

Edit: Also, I think I'm going to do a route change to make things go faster.  I'm going to wait until just before I would go into the Dream Realm to face the first seven bosses in a row, rather than my current strategy of splitting the boss fight series up.  If I find that the Shadow Wraith is easier than first predicted, I'll do all eight bosses in one segment.

The current route will probably go like this:

Segment 1-8: The corresponding Realms, excluding the bosses.  Note that I will likely need to backtrack in segment 7.
Segment 9: I could crack a really stupid joke here, but anyway, this segment's basically a boss rush.
Segment 10: Cathedral, easily
Segment 11: Underworld
Segment 12: All three main stages in the Battlegrounds
Segment 13: Fight the Queen Spider until I have full health and can get full powerups, then finish off Garm

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-05-16 04:05:51 pm

2006-05-15 02:08:46 am

Never give up!

I decided for the sake of easy editing that I'd put the analysis for each realm in one post separate from the last one I made. Don't worry, all the realm analyses are going in one post - I just won't mingle it with the last one I made.

General Notes:
-I will have to memorize which barrels and chests have what I need when doing a run of this game. I am still tempted to open excess chests or barrels.
-I also need to memorize what levels have Runestones and what I have to do to get them.
-I realized there's difficulty settings, but I will be doing this on the medium difficulty setting.

Town:
-No real problems here as far as gathering red crystals, getting the two Runestones, or accessing the Parchment of Fire.
-There's a Runestone in the first and fourth levels, and the Parchment is in the third.
-Once I am closer to the real run, the four levels in this area combined should be beatable in below 30 minutes.

Mountain:
-I had an issue retrieving enough purple crystals and ending the realm with enough golden fangs. If fixing those is necessary, the Valley of Fire will be best for this situation.
-I only have to worry about the first and the fifth levels - which have the Runestone and the Javelin, respectively.
-This area is certainly faster than the Town. I should be able to beat it in around 20 minutes.

Castle:
-I wound up just short on crystals again, so I will say that the Dungeon of Torment's a good level for gaining the last few Blue Crystals.
-The Ice Axe in the third level isn't worth the long backtrack it takes to get it. I WILL need to get the Runestone in the fourth level, though.
-I really need to know what treasures are not worth getting. With that, I believe a time below 40 minutes would be easily possible.

Sky Realm:
-I made my crystal requirement by a meager three crystals, so not much room for error there.
-The Legend Item is easy. So is the first Runestone. I will, however, probably give the Mothership its own segment, because getting the Runestone there (it's either random or requires a really convoluted sequence to get) and then dealing with two gargoyles and two Red Deaths is too risky that late into a segment.
-I got lost again several times, and kept going for extras. If I avoided that, I think this area could be done in under 45 minutes.

Forest:
-The Legend Item in the fourth level requires a little backtracking, though it's easy to get. As for the Runestone, its location surprised me - I thought it was in the third level, but it's really in the second. It was easy for me to get though.
-I was a bit short on crystals, so I needed one last trip to the Acid Swamp, but getting enough golden feathers was easy.
-This place could be done in one pass. And I think it could be done in under 40 minutes.

Desert:
-The Runestone's a pretty easy find in the first level. The Legend Item is in the third level and requires a little extra backtracking to pull off, but it's a simple puzzle.
-I actually didn't complete this area yet in my test, because two of my tests failed, one at the Pyramid and another at the Tombs. My current verdict is that every level in this realm will get its own segment in a real run. This area burns through health pretty fast.
-Also, from here on out, I'm considering making it a goal to start every level with a Thunder Hammer to make the beginning a little less draining on my health. I also need to spend all the gold I get in the next two realms - and halfway through the Dream Realm - on health, although I have to make sure I have 2850 before I fight any bosses (to get Super Shots and Three-Way Shots).

Since my test never made it farther than the Desert, the last few parts are from what I recall from the last time I finished the game (it was pretty recently, in fact). I will modify the following if my test gets farther.

Ice Realm:
-The two Runestones (second and third levels) were pretty easy to get as far as I remember. The Legend Item in the Erupting Fissure required a little extra work, but it's easy to get.
-As far as I remember, this area is actually easier than the Desert. I may still want to split it into two segments, but if I do, the split will occur right after the Frozen Camp.

Dream Realm:
-None of the areas in this realm are particularly tough from what I know, they're just LONG. Because of the sheer length of these levels, though, I am definitely splitting this into at least two segments, probably three. If I use just two, the split occurs right before 'Your Worst Nightmare', the fourth level. If I use three, I'll do the first cutoff right after getting the Lantern and the second cutoff right AFTER 'Your Worst Nightmare'.
-The Legend Item is in the second level, and it's right at the end and easy to get. The two Runestones (in the fourth and fifth levels) don't require a lot of extra running around, but they DO require a little backtracking and going off the beaten path.

The Boss Rush:
-My core strategy for each boss is to use Super Shots and 3-Way Shots together all the time. Once I get up to the Spider Queen, I add several purchases of Invulnerability to make it easier for me. I may also mix in Amulets for after the Super Shot is gone and throw in Turbo Attacks, since each ARROW from the Archer's two Turbo Attacks is powered up by any amulets in effect. Do the math; the resulting damage is absolutely insane.
-With the Chimera and Plague Fiend, I may have to stand a little farther back to make all three hits of each Super Shot/3-Way Shot combo connect. For all others, I stay close.

More on this later.

I decided for the sake of easy editing that I'd put the analysis for each realm in one post separate from the last one I made.  Don't worry, all the realm analyses are going in one post - I just won't mingle it with the last one I made.

General Notes:
-I will have to memorize which barrels and chests have what I need when doing a run of this game.  I am still tempted to open excess chests or barrels.
-I also need to memorize what levels have Runestones and what I have to do to get them.
-I realized there's difficulty settings, but I will be doing this on the medium difficulty setting.

Town:
-No real problems here as far as gathering red crystals, getting the two Runestones, or accessing the Parchment of Fire.
-There's a Runestone in the first and fourth levels, and the Parchment is in the third.
-Once I am closer to the real run, the four levels in this area combined should be beatable in below 30 minutes.

Mountain:
-I had an issue retrieving enough purple crystals and ending the realm with enough golden fangs.  If fixing those is necessary, the Valley of Fire will be best for this situation.
-I only have to worry about the first and the fifth levels - which have the Runestone and the Javelin, respectively.
-This area is certainly faster than the Town.  I should be able to beat it in around 20 minutes.

Castle:
-I wound up just short on crystals again, so I will say that the Dungeon of Torment's a good level for gaining the last few Blue Crystals.
-The Ice Axe in the third level isn't worth the long backtrack it takes to get it.  I WILL need to get the Runestone in the fourth level, though.
-I really need to know what treasures are not worth getting.  With that, I believe a time below 40 minutes would be easily possible.

Sky Realm:
-I made my crystal requirement by a meager three crystals, so not much room for error there.
-The Legend Item is easy.  So is the first Runestone.  I will, however, probably give the Mothership its own segment, because getting the Runestone there (it's either random or requires a really convoluted sequence to get) and then dealing with two gargoyles and two Red Deaths is too risky that late into a segment.
-I got lost again several times, and kept going for extras.  If I avoided that, I think this area could be done in under 45 minutes.

Forest:
-The Legend Item in the fourth level requires a little backtracking, though it's easy to get.  As for the Runestone, its location surprised me - I thought it was in the third level, but it's really in the second.  It was easy for me to get though.
-I was a bit short on crystals, so I needed one last trip to the Acid Swamp, but getting enough golden feathers was easy.
-This place could be done in one pass.  And I think it could be done in under 40 minutes.

Desert:
-The Runestone's a pretty easy find in the first level.  The Legend Item is in the third level and requires a little extra backtracking to pull off, but it's a simple puzzle.
-I actually didn't complete this area yet in my test, because two of my tests failed, one at the Pyramid and another at the Tombs.  My current verdict is that every level in this realm will get its own segment in a real run.  This area burns through health pretty fast.
-Also, from here on out, I'm considering making it a goal to start every level with a Thunder Hammer to make the beginning a little less draining on my health.  I also need to spend all the gold I get in the next two realms - and halfway through the Dream Realm - on health, although I have to make sure I have 2850 before I fight any bosses (to get Super Shots and Three-Way Shots).

Since my test never made it farther than the Desert, the last few parts are from what I recall from the last time I finished the game (it was pretty recently, in fact).  I will modify the following if my test gets farther.

Ice Realm:
-The two Runestones (second and third levels) were pretty easy to get as far as I remember.  The Legend Item in the Erupting Fissure required a little extra work, but it's easy to get.
-As far as I remember, this area is actually easier than the Desert.  I may still want to split it into two segments, but if I do, the split will occur right after the Frozen Camp.

Dream Realm:
-None of the areas in this realm are particularly tough from what I know, they're just LONG.  Because of the sheer length of these levels, though, I am definitely splitting this into at least two segments, probably three.  If I use just two, the split occurs right before 'Your Worst Nightmare', the fourth level.  If I use three, I'll do the first cutoff right after getting the Lantern and the second cutoff right AFTER 'Your Worst Nightmare'.
-The Legend Item is in the second level, and it's right at the end and easy to get.  The two Runestones (in the fourth and fifth levels) don't require a lot of extra running around, but they DO require a little backtracking and going off the beaten path.

The Boss Rush:
-My core strategy for each boss is to use Super Shots and 3-Way Shots together all the time.  Once I get up to the Spider Queen, I add several purchases of Invulnerability to make it easier for me.  I may also mix in Amulets for after the Super Shot is gone and throw in Turbo Attacks, since each ARROW from the Archer's two Turbo Attacks is powered up by any amulets in effect.  Do the math; the resulting damage is absolutely insane.
-With the Chimera and Plague Fiend, I may have to stand a little farther back to make all three hits of each Super Shot/3-Way Shot combo connect.  For all others, I stay close.