"Games List"

2008-02-15 04:35:16 am

yep.

makes more sense to me that newcomers to the site entering from the front page would want to see all the games we have runs on right away. more experienced people will more likely want to use the interface thing to narrow down the list. personally i just view the whole list every time and hit ctrl-f. but maybe that's because i type so fast.

any superior solutions are welcome.

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2008-02-15 04:38:36 am

2008-02-15 04:36:48 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Nate changed it to point to the full list instead of the sortable game list (like the news page points to). The rationale is that newbs would want to just see the entire game list first (it is simpler and more impressive), and honestly I agree with him. If you are a regular to the site, you should probably be bookmarking the news page anyway.

However, you are the 3rd or 4th person I have heard question this. I suggested maybe linking to both, like possibly...

Browse the full game list or search the sortable game list to see what games we currently have runs of.

...but I don't really care.

FWIW, personally I never use the sortable game list. When I'm on the news page, I click on game list and then click on view list instantly every single time out of habit. In-browser find as you type is way better than any search box IMHO.

I think the main page is like a funny relic anyway. There's no reason why we couldn't just symlink to the news page and use that as the main page. Also, it would actually avoid a lot of confusion as there are actually a surprisingly large number of people who post saying "hey guys, is there any way to sort by posted date?" and don't even know there is a news page.

Examples:

Quote:

A large number of tricks are usually used, possibly skipping whole areas of a game in the process, and there will always be mistakes.

strangely worded

Quote:

The most popular game to speed run remains Quake

Edit: Ok, Nate beat me by a minute because I typed so much. Tongue

We agree anyway. Although ctrl-f is too much effort for me. Even / is too much effort. I just have the auto find as you type set.

Nate changed it to point to the full list instead of the sortable game list (like the news page points to). The rationale is that newbs would want to just see the entire game list first (it is simpler and more impressive), and honestly I agree with him. If you are a regular to the site, you should probably be bookmarking the news page anyway.

However, you are the 3rd or 4th person I have heard question this. I suggested maybe linking to both, like possibly...

Browse the [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/gamelist/FullList.html]full game list[/url] or search the [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/GameList.html]sortable game list[/url] to see what games we currently have runs of.

...but I don't really care.

FWIW, personally I never use the sortable game list. When I'm on the news page, I click on game list and then click on view list instantly every single time out of habit. In-browser find as you type is way better than any search box IMHO.

I think the main page is like a funny relic anyway. There's no reason why we couldn't just symlink to the news page and use that as the main page. Also, it would actually avoid a lot of confusion as there are actually a surprisingly large number of people who post saying "hey guys, is there any way to sort by posted date?" and don't even know there is a news page.

Examples:

[quote]A large number of tricks are usually used, possibly skipping whole areas of a game in the process, and there will always be mistakes.[/quote]
strangely worded

[quote]The most popular game to speed run remains Quake[/quote]
:(

Edit: Ok, Nate beat me by a minute because I typed so much. :P We agree anyway. Although ctrl-f is too much effort for me. Even / is too much effort. I just have the auto find as you type set.

vxd

2008-02-15 04:47:01 am

Bite my shiny metal-ass!

I registered for an account now.

I usually go for the News section first, but sometimes i just want to browse a category to see if there is something that tickles my interest atm.

Though i don't like having all the games grouped together like that, it seems abit dirty and chaotic, maybe that's just a reflection of my personality hehe.

Glad to se it wasn't a bug anyways Tongue

i'll just have to try to live with the fact that i have to press News THEN Game List.

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2008-02-15 06:29:45 am

2008-02-15 06:28:59 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Maybe on the alphabetical game list, there should be a link that says "sort list" and links to the old sort page.

Quote:

I think the main page is like a funny relic anyway. There's no reason why we couldn't just symlink to the news page and use that as the main page.

Sites that have their news page as their front page repulse first-time visitors... They go to the site looking for information and instead they get a news post, and they have no idea what it is about. Since their interest is often fleeting, they aren't going to spend their time digging around to figure out what the site is about. Here's an example:

www.scorehero.com

If you happen to know what the site is about, imagine that you don't. Can you tell looking at the front page? Can you tell looking at anything linked from the front page? Do you care enough to spend time figuring it out?

Edit history:

Poesta: 2008-02-15 09:36:52 am

2008-02-15 09:35:57 am

Yarr

I like it the way it is now, but can anyone explain to me why some games are for the 'PSX' while some are for the 'Playstation'? Example:

Quote:

# Final Fantasy IX for PlayStation (8:32:xx)
# Final Fantasy V for SNES/PSX (3:26:xx)
# Final Fantasy VII for PSX/PC (7:41:xx)
# Final Fantasy Mystic Quest for Super Nintendo (2:44:20)
# Final Fantasy Tactics for PlayStation (4:45:xx)

Aargh?

Also, check this out:

Quote:

# Phantasy Star Online for DC/GCN/Xbox/PC (2:03:xx)
# Phantasy Star Online 3 for GameCube (3:32:xx)

ZOMG!?

Another one:

Quote:

# Pokémon Red/Blue for Game Boy (1:26:xx)
# Pokémon Yellow for Game Boy (2:28:xx)
# Pokémon Gold/Silver for GB/GBC (4:15:xx)

Soisoi?

I'm not criticizing, I'm just helping out. :angel:

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2008-02-15 09:47:31 am

2008-02-15 09:46:56 am

boss

Quote:

Sites that have their news page as their front page repulse first-time visitors... They go to the site looking for information and instead they get a news post, and they have no idea what it is about. Since their interest is often fleeting, they aren't going to spend their time digging around to figure out what the site is about. Here's an example:

www.scorehero.com

If you happen to know what the site is about, imagine that you don't. Can you tell looking at the front page? Can you tell looking at anything linked from the front page? Do you care enough to spend time figuring it out?

SDA's front page is repulsive as hell and it's not even a news page.

Lag.Com

2008-02-15 01:25:30 pm

sda loyalist

SDA's front page tells you what the site is about.

That's what front pages do.

2008-02-15 04:43:17 pm

Quote:

can anyone explain to me why some games are for the 'PSX' while some are for the 'Playstation'?

you can't figure it out for yourself? seems pretty obvious to me ...

...

(need spoiler tags on the sda forum, lol)

game on 1 system = full name
game on >1 system = abbreviation

2008-02-15 05:58:14 pm

Yarr

Ok, you got me there. But what about this one:

Quote:

Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero for PSX/NM64 (0:50:32)

8)

2008-02-15 07:12:25 pm

n and m keys are too close together.

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2008-02-15 07:16:11 pm

2008-02-15 07:15:46 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

You don't know about the Nintendo Mega 64?

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2008-02-15 07:20:21 pm

2008-02-15 07:16:43 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Sites that have their news page as their front page repulse first-time visitors... They go to the site looking for information and instead they get a news post, and they have no idea what it is about. Since their interest is often fleeting, they aren't going to spend their time digging around to figure out what the site is about.

I do HCI, I know you're channeling Nielsen, I know how this works in general, but I was just talking about SDA, not other sites. Our news page is actually easier to navigate since you have a menu at the top. The main page has a bunch of little paragraphs and is probably more confusing from lack of menu. It also has more links: the same 5 at the top of news page but extra rules.html, Atom feed, and Quake which are unnecessary (you can put the rules in the FAQ or link from it if you must).

Even if the main page was redesigned, there is another fundamental issue here. On most other sites, the news page isn't important. Try any corporate website or for an example where I would definitely agree with you, GGPO. But for us, our updates are the site. Look at cnn.com, do you think they start on a main page that describes CNN and then links to a news page?

Also, GGPO is an example of what you're saying since it's very hard to tell what the site is about from the updates. But SDA is the opposite. You have games in links. You have times in links. You have people's names and the word speedrun or runner a lot. You can pretty much know what we are about from every single news post.

There's that whole stupid 3 seconds rule (how long people spend on an average page, which I know is flawed), but honestly as a complete newb, I would rather land on the news page than the main page. It doesn't describe in sentences what we are about, it shows what we are all about. I swear it's more inviting (visually), easier to navigate, and makes a better first impression in 3 seconds. If you did an eye tracking experiment, your gaze would be directed on the menu and logo at the top due to the bars of the updates. Try that with the main page which is more of a jumble.

Plus it shows we update like crazy men which is the major appeal of this site. It shows we have been around for a while and will continue to do so, and visitors should keep checking back all the time and also click on lots of ads. And it avoids situations where people check if the site is doing anything by checking the game list until the 402 number at the top increases, which has actually happened.

Clicking around for this post, I think the real thing is we need to update all of our old "about" sort of pages. They're all incredibly outdated, and now I understand things like:

Why DJ don't get no respect: he's not in the FAQ (that and he wasn't a mod)

Why are people confused if they can run a game or if their game is too obscure: it's vague and confusing in the FAQ (people think shit like No More Heroes and Earthbound is obscure because it's all relative)

Why do people complain about downloading all the segments: we tell them about FTP instead of DownThemAll

Why do people think we're so elitest: read some of the stuff at the top of the rules page (as an aside, our rules list is very long and TG-like, and while it is important that a new runner sees it, it's probably better for our visitors not to see it since it's intimidating, and the only one that matters to them is NO CHEATING which is in the vids)

Why do some people seem afraid to talk to Mike: he has the framework of the old Radix text on the submit page Tongue

Maybe eventually (think summer) I will rewrite the FAQ and arrange stuff differently. If I do that I would like to solicit the opinions of forum regulars, definitely.

[quote]Sites that have their news page as their front page repulse first-time visitors... They go to the site looking for information and instead they get a news post, and they have no idea what it is about. Since their interest is often fleeting, they aren't going to spend their time digging around to figure out what the site is about.[/quote]

I do HCI, I know you're channeling Nielsen, I know how this works in general, but I was just talking about SDA, not other sites. Our news page is actually easier to navigate since you have a menu at the top. The main page has a bunch of little paragraphs and is probably more confusing from lack of menu. It also has more links: the same 5 at the top of news page but extra rules.html, Atom feed, and Quake which are unnecessary (you can put the rules in the FAQ or link from it if you must).

Even if the main page was redesigned, there is another fundamental issue here. On most other sites, the news page isn't important. Try any corporate website or for an example where I would definitely agree with you, [url=http://ggpo.net/]GGPO[/url]. But for us, our updates [i]are[/i] the site. Look at cnn.com, do you think they start on a main page that describes CNN and then links to a news page?

Also, GGPO is an example of what you're saying since it's very hard to tell what the site is about from the updates. But SDA is the opposite. You have games in links. You have times in links. You have people's names and the word speedrun or runner a lot. You can pretty much know what we are about from every single news post.

There's that whole stupid 3 seconds rule (how long people spend on an average page, which I know is flawed), but honestly as a complete newb, I would rather land on the news page than the main page. It doesn't describe in sentences what we are about, it [i]shows[/i] what we are all about. I swear it's more inviting (visually), easier to navigate, and makes a better first impression in 3 seconds. If you did an eye tracking experiment, your gaze would be directed on the menu and logo at the top due to the bars of the updates. Try that with the main page which is more of a jumble.

Plus it shows we update like crazy men which is the major appeal of this site. It shows we have been around for a while and will continue to do so, and visitors should keep checking back all the time and also click on lots of ads. And it avoids situations where people check if the site is doing anything by checking the game list until the 402 number at the top increases, which has actually happened.

Clicking around for this post, I think the real thing is we need to update all of our old "about" sort of pages. They're all incredibly outdated, and now I understand things like:

Why DJ don't get no respect: he's not in the FAQ (that and he wasn't a mod)

Why are people confused if they can run a game or if their game is too obscure: it's vague and confusing in the FAQ (people think shit like No More Heroes and Earthbound is obscure because it's all relative)

Why do people complain about downloading all the segments: we tell them about FTP instead of DownThemAll

Why do people think we're so elitest: read some of the stuff at the top of the rules page (as an aside, our rules list is very long and TG-like, and while it is important that a new runner sees it, it's probably better for our visitors not to see it since it's intimidating, and the only one that matters to them is NO CHEATING which is in the vids)

Why do some people seem afraid to talk to Mike: he has the framework of the old Radix text on the submit page :P

Maybe eventually (think summer) I will rewrite the FAQ and arrange stuff differently. If I do that I would like to solicit the opinions of forum regulars, definitely.

mikwuyma

2008-02-15 07:21:21 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote:

Maybe eventually (think summer) I will rewrite the FAQ and arrange stuff differently. If I do that I would like to solicit the opinions of forum regulars, definitely.

Yeah I've been meaning to do this, but I never got around to it. Maybe we can both do it. And you're right about the Radix-ese :-/

Edit history:

Poesta: 2008-02-15 08:42:51 pm

2008-02-15 08:42:19 pm

Yarr

Talking about the 3 second rule, I think it definitely aplies to the Quake section. It doesn't have an introduction on the front page whatsoever.

Ok this kinda scares me:

Quote:

« Reply #11 on: Today 20:15:46 »
« Reply #12 on: Today 20:16:43 »

This would mean that Enhasa typed his last post in less than a minute. Awesome skillz.

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2008-02-15 11:03:01 pm

2008-02-15 11:02:18 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Ok this kinda scares me:
This would mean that Enhasa typed his last post in less than a minute. Awesome skillz.

LOL insane WPM right?

Ok what it does mean, is that I typed out the long post (starting before Nate's post at 2:12), then hit refresh to see if there were any new posts, saw his, and made the other post first before hitting submit.

Or it's just skillz like you said.

DRybes

2008-02-16 04:48:48 am

O Zlda?

Also worth noting that wide lines of text are difficult to read. Our front page would benefit at the very least from being inside a fixed max width table.

Better yet we could pull important information from that front page and summarize it in a sentence or two... not exactly a mission statement or anything, but a friendly and concise welcome, then pop that in a table cell at the top of the news page, below the navigation links, maybe an inch and a half high at the very largest, and make the news page the front page.

2008-02-16 05:23:18 am

i like that.

Psonar

Edit history:

Psonar: 2008-02-16 09:51:18 am

2008-02-16 09:39:37 am

Long live SF64!

Quote:

You don't know about the Nintendo Mega 64?

LOL - brilliant Grin

...and regarding updating the front page, I agree that it needs to be at least as attractive as a boring PowerPoint presentation - using shorter statements, and possibly some bullets.

It's just like how with a job resume you want to be clear and concise and not use a paragraphs to describe what you have to offer.

vxd

Edit history:

vxd: 2008-02-16 10:57:50 pm

2008-02-16 10:55:11 pm

Bite my shiny metal-ass!

I've been a user of sda.com for a couple of years now(never felt the need to use the forum though) and i've never felt that the index page was "ugly" or "misleading" i does what an index page is supposed to do in my opinion. It says what the site is about and where to find the relevant stuff.

As a User i've never read the FAQ or the Rules though, since i just DL the runs AND i use FTP(as any sane person would do) to download multiple segments.

What I would like, is that EVERYTHING should be on the EU archive server aswell as the US archive.... it's really annoying downloading a 1gb~ run at 100kb/s~ at max :/

EDIT: Or that every run should exist in a torrent aswell.

2008-02-17 01:19:23 am

i agree. however archive europe ran out of capacity years ago.