Freedom Planet

2015-05-14 02:28:28 am

Quote from Mylexsi:

Y'know, with this - especially if optimised a bit more - it might actually be possible to beat Milla's time on this stage.

Quote from AwaitingVerification:

5/13/2015 21:45:14 Fladervy Milla Basset Individual Level (IL) Battle Glacier 4:38.22

Never mind. Shouldn't have said anything >.>

WELCOME BACK TO BATTLE GLACIER MYLEXSI.

2015-05-14 09:31:28 am

Edit history:

johannhowitzer: 2015-05-17 05:36:44 am

johannhowitzer: 2015-05-16 10:19:56 pm

johannhowitzer: 2015-05-16 10:13:38 pm

johannhowitzer: 2015-05-16 09:45:54 pm

2015-05-16 09:45:40 pm

Viking it up

It's always bothered me that Serpentine and Attack Chopper at the end of JC have never been really, truly, PROPERLY routed. We just sort of did some attacks that worked and bashed our heads against a poorly-understood pattern.

Well, Greg and I put our heads together tonight and found some really nice new things for both of those fights.

I've got Serpentine on lock - it's a little difficult, but not too bad to guarantee he only gets one bullet rain and otherwise dies extremely fast. I have it down to exact numbers of hits for the entire fight. I also end the fight with near-full meter.

Attack Chopper can now be forced to descend after two boosts *guaranteed*, and sometimes only one. It can be brought down in roughly half the time the old strat did (which was about 11-12 seconds). After the chopper is grounded, it can be destroyed in three uppercuts - two if you also get the boost that sits in the hitbox the whole way, the "roflcopter."

For the Attack Chopper opening strat Greg and I came up with, check out the end of this run:

...also this. This happened. This.

http://www.twitch.tv/johannhowitzer/c/6700477

It's always bothered me that Serpentine and Attack Chopper at the end of JC have never been really, truly, PROPERLY routed.  We just sort of did some attacks that worked and bashed our heads against a poorly-understood pattern.

Well, Greg and I put our heads together tonight and found some really nice new things for both of those fights.

I've got Serpentine on lock - it's a little difficult, but not too bad to guarantee he only gets one bullet rain and otherwise dies extremely fast.  I have it down to exact numbers of hits for the entire fight.  I also end the fight with near-full meter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqcM2eb3i3U

Attack Chopper can now be forced to descend after two boosts *guaranteed*, and sometimes only one.  It can be brought down in roughly half the time the old strat did (which was about 11-12 seconds).  After the chopper is grounded, it can be destroyed in three uppercuts - two if you also get the boost that sits in the hitbox the whole way, the "roflcopter."

For the Attack Chopper opening strat Greg and I came up with, check out the end of this run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BvQ78nlD3Q

...also this.  This happened.  This.

http://www.twitch.tv/johannhowitzer/c/6700477

Edit history:

johannhowitzer: 2015-05-17 07:12:29 pm

johannhowitzer: 2015-05-17 07:11:25 pm

johannhowitzer: 2015-05-17 03:35:43 pm

2015-05-17 03:35:12 pm

Viking it up

Fladervy's new Milla FD3 record inspired me to create a new FD3 strat for Lilac. Cyclone jumps for DAYS.

Timed it, saves about a second.

Edit history:

johannhowitzer: 2015-05-18 04:40:10 am

2015-05-17 07:27:20 pm

Viking it up

Another new strat. I had been messing with the water cycle divekick to see how I could judge whether I would make it, and I found a visual cue:

In order to make the divekick land on the downslope instead of in the water, you need to start the boost when the water level seen through the diamond part of those girders is moving down. Doesn't matter the height as long as it's moving down.

I was trying to test that visual cue while moving at speed since the screen has to move vertically right before you smash the crates. All I succeeded in doing was proving that you have very little time when you arrive before the water cycle becomes unfavorable... so I set my sights on trying to get there earlier.

The only way I could think of to save time was to try to get over this quarterpipe without touching the submarine or the water after the grass. Everything I tried failed, it's just way too far. It was really frustrating too, because I had to restart Jade Creek entirely each time I tried it, because if you just Restart there, the submarines rise out of the water before Lilac can move. That's when I realized something, and got really excited.

RESTART PUTS THE WATER ON A DIFFERENT CYCLE.

The idea is that you restart as soon as the Jade Creek 2 tune begins, a split second after Neera falls to one knee. Here's the route I came up with after the restart happens:

According to video comparison between this and my PB two posts ago, this loses 0.65 seconds - but that's only if your last hit on Neera is the Dragon Boost that sends you out of her room. And this video's execution is not quite perfect, so the gap is probably more like 0.2 seconds, if anything - I was a bit slow smashing the crate and grabbing the crystals.

And this completely ignores the quarter pipe, the water after Neera, and guarantees a favorable water cycle for the divekick at the end, plus the run now has another deathwarp if runners use this; I plan to. It's much easier than the old route, so you're giving up at most half a second, and maybe not even that, for much better consistency through this section.

Another new strat.  I had been messing with the water cycle divekick to see how I could judge whether I would make it, and I found a visual cue:

[img]http://s15.postimg.org/btaikl23v/JCwatervisual.png[/img]

In order to make the divekick land on the downslope instead of in the water, you need to start the boost when the water level seen through the diamond part of those girders is moving down.  Doesn't matter the height as long as it's moving down.

I was trying to test that visual cue while moving at speed since the screen has to move vertically right before you smash the crates.  All I succeeded in doing was proving that you have very little time when you arrive before the water cycle becomes unfavorable... so I set my sights on trying to get there earlier.

[img]http://s4.postimg.org/40awgxza5/JCquarterpipe.png[/img]

The only way I could think of to save time was to try to get over this quarterpipe without touching the submarine or the water after the grass.  Everything I tried failed, it's just way too far.  It was really frustrating too, because I had to restart Jade Creek entirely each time I tried it, because if you just Restart there, the submarines rise out of the water before Lilac can move.  That's when I realized something, and got really excited.

RESTART PUTS THE WATER ON A DIFFERENT CYCLE.

The idea is that you restart as soon as the Jade Creek 2 tune begins, a split second after Neera falls to one knee.  Here's the route I came up with after the restart happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF1iyHBbBCk

According to video comparison between this and my PB two posts ago, this loses 0.65 seconds - but that's only if your last hit on Neera is the Dragon Boost that sends you out of her room.  And this video's execution is not quite perfect, so the gap is probably more like 0.2 seconds, if anything - I was a bit slow smashing the crate and grabbing the crystals.

And this completely ignores the quarter pipe, the water after Neera, and guarantees a favorable water cycle for the divekick at the end, plus the run now has another deathwarp if runners use this; I plan to.  It's much easier than the old route, so you're giving up at most half a second, and maybe not even that, for much better consistency through this section.

Edit history:

Mylexsi: 2015-05-18 10:18:37 am

2015-05-18 10:17:11 am

Never had any issues with that section tbh.
Also, as long as the submarine is moving upwards as you boost, you should make it. (PS- it's the submarine moving up and down on that screen, not the water. It's a water cycle on the next screen, but on this one it's a submarine cycle).
Best I can tell(though I'm not entirely sure), the submarine is on a universal ~6s timer(i know it pops out of the water for the 1st time after you deck Neera, but the height it pops out to varies by your timer); If you kill Neera on 1:50 or 1:56, the cycle should line up right. If you kill her a second or so earlier it might be faster to wait a moment before boosting to hit the cycle(though I've never bothered to). If you're a second or so late then fuck it just go.

2015-05-18 03:15:30 pm

Viking it up

Yeah, I know it's the subs.

Also, my new strategy should be able to break even by picking up more of the health items before leaving the grass. One of the main time losses is due to having to wait for the second boost. Hell, with that and better execution when breaking the crate, I might be able to get this to SAVE time.

2015-05-18 05:11:50 pm

Viking it up

Stumbled upon a new Mech Brevon strategy by being inspired to try the Attack Chopper kill pattern on his face.

Mhm. You just watched Mech drop from 7HP to 3HP before his third attack.

2015-05-19 02:42:02 pm

I managed to hit 5:03.30 on BG! except it was on a run I wasn't recording because I was watching Mylexsi so I have nothing to submit

Eebsee

2015-05-19 05:48:09 pm

Hello, I have been wanting to start speedrunning Freedom Planet for a while now. I've never done it with another game, but it looks such fun to do it with this game. I know it will take a long time and a frustrating amount of fails for me to even get halfway you guys already are, but I will try my best.

Is there a big post for tips and tricks and all that somewhere in the forum? (I'm a bit lazy)
Also (If the post(if it exist) don't mention it) Keyboard or controller?

2015-05-19 06:22:18 pm

Viking it up

Everyone has to start somewhere. If you really love this game, that should be enough to motivate you to practice a lot, because practicing is playing the game, and playing the game is fun. This game hasn't ever become drudgery for me, not in the six months I've been practicing. If you find it becomes drudgery to you, come talk to me, maybe there's something about the way you're practicing that can improve and make it more enjoyable and productive; there are definitely good and bad ways to practice.

There is not currently a large repository of strats in writing and screenshots; right now the best resource for you is the Freedom Planet community leaderboard, which I maintain with the help of Mylexsi and Fladervy: bombch.us/wAw

You can find IL and full run video links there, which will show you what the currently-used strategies are. Eventually there will be a wiki-based resource, and I have my own little project waiting in the wings that I haven't had time to flesh out completely... (that's a surprise for everyone btw)

Keyboard and controller are both viable. I use a Buffalo USB controller, which looks almost exactly like a Super Famicom paddle, and it's served me very well. If you use a controller with an adapter, be aware you may experience some small input lag, a few frames at most. Whatever you start with, make sure it's what you plan to stick with for a LONG time because it will be a huge undertaking to retrain your fingers for a different input device!

And we're all available for chat, and this topic is very active. If you want, add me on steam, my name there is jonathan.howie - I am always up to answer questions.

Everyone has to start somewhere.  If you really love this game, that should be enough to motivate you to practice a lot, because practicing is playing the game, and playing the game is fun.  This game hasn't ever become drudgery for me, not in the six months I've been practicing.  If you find it becomes drudgery to you, come talk to me, maybe there's something about the way you're practicing that can improve and make it more enjoyable and productive; there are definitely good and bad ways to practice.

There is not currently a large repository of strats in writing and screenshots; right now the best resource for you is the Freedom Planet community leaderboard, which I maintain with the help of Mylexsi and Fladervy:  bombch.us/wAw

You can find IL and full run video links there, which will show you what the currently-used strategies are.  Eventually there will be a wiki-based resource, and I have my own little project waiting in the wings that I haven't had time to flesh out completely... (that's a surprise for everyone btw)

Keyboard and controller are both viable.  I use a Buffalo USB controller, which looks almost exactly like a Super Famicom paddle, and it's served me very well.  If you use a controller with an adapter, be aware you may experience some small input lag, a few frames at most.  Whatever you start with, make sure it's what you plan to stick with for a LONG time because it will be a huge undertaking to retrain your fingers for a different input device!

And we're all available for chat, and this topic is very active.  If you want, add me on steam, my name there is jonathan.howie - I am always up to answer questions.

2015-05-19 06:28:35 pm

Johann has taken care of most of the explaining, so I'm gonna drop my Steam username here as well. GregSiris. I also want to say that once you start going fast in this game, you never want to stop.

Eebsee

2015-05-19 06:40:05 pm

Thank you very much ^^

Looking forward to become a part of the speedrunning community more :3
I've played with keyboard mostly this far, just wanted to know if there was a big difference. But if both are viable I think I will stick with keyboard, cutting away the time to adapt to controller.

Great to hear you both saying that you don't feel the game becomes a drudgery, not that I was too worried since I love the game as well, but it shows the kind of love the community has for the game. Which is really motivating!

2015-05-20 03:04:13 am

Hey. Yeah, any controller is viable. I use a freaking analogue stick for it. Which is dumb, but I'm too used to it to stop. Keyboard should be completely fine.
And I'd be Mylexsi on Steam. If you have troubles doing something, ask one of us.
Although to pre-empt a few inevitable questions; If you feel like you're copying a video exactly, but just aren't getting enough height for some reason, try holding Jump while you do it.

Xinronyr

2015-05-20 07:06:46 am

Apprentice Freedom Planet runner

This game is really fun to speedrun! =)

I was into improving my PBs for awhile, but stopped to play some other games my viewers wanted to see (I'm mainly an RPG streamer, but I make an exception for certain platformer games and I like games that are really well done. FP is one of these games that fits in the category of a really well done platformer XP). Freedom Planet is amazing and has lots of hidden little tricks that each character can do in order to gain speed on certain levels. There are likely still many tricks yet to be discovered for each character XP

I'm guessing from your avatar, you plan to speedrun as Milla? If that's true, you should definitely check out Fladervy's videos and try to catch his streams on Twitch o.o

Mylexsi and Johannhowitzer also stream quite often and I think they even do races against each other! They're likely the most dedicated of the SR community for FP, along with Fladervy! o.o

I haven't forgotten about GregSiris(sp), Ytxz and Yuuki_S either! Actually, there are a lot of people who speedrun and I think they prefer to upload to Youtube as opposed to streaming all the time, so it's rare of me to catch them especially since I stream on certain days and they might be streaming. Still, the community is fairly big and welcoming! I can't wait to catch one of your streams/videos once you get started =)

This game is really fun to speedrun! =)

I was into improving my PBs for awhile, but stopped to play some other games my viewers wanted to see (I'm mainly an RPG streamer, but I make an exception for certain platformer games and I like games that are really well done. FP is one of these games that fits in the category of a really well done platformer XP). Freedom Planet is amazing and has lots of hidden little tricks that each character can do in order to gain speed on certain levels. There are likely still many tricks yet to be discovered for each character XP

I'm guessing from your avatar, you plan to speedrun as Milla? If that's true, you should definitely check out Fladervy's videos and try to catch his streams on Twitch o.o

Mylexsi and Johannhowitzer also stream quite often and I think they even do races against each other! They're likely the most dedicated of the SR community for FP, along with Fladervy! o.o

I haven't forgotten about GregSiris(sp), Ytxz and Yuuki_S either! Actually, there are a lot of people who speedrun and I think they prefer to upload to Youtube as opposed to streaming all the time, so it's rare of me to catch them especially since I stream on certain days and they might be streaming. Still, the community is fairly big and welcoming! I can't wait to catch one of your streams/videos once you get started =)

Eebsee

2015-05-20 11:59:30 am

Planning to speedrun Lilac...just like Milla as well ^^

Will however most likely enjoy speedruns with Milla too (watching)

YTXZ

Edit history:

YTXZ: 2015-05-22 08:22:20 pm

2015-05-22 08:21:43 pm

Lilac Final Brevon things,
6-8 second strat:

I don't know what this is, how do I keep breaking this game? pls help :<

2015-05-24 04:43:09 pm

Viking it up

Thanks for making those, YTXZ! Really appreciate it.

I came up with a new FD4 zip strategy that makes it a ton easier to get first try every time, but costs real time: pause buffering.

I've been relying on pushing to the right to get the zip sometimes when I don't get the one pixel position in time, and I decided to try a pause buffer based on what I saw nearby. First I tried using the blocks themselves, but that turned out to be very unreliable. So I looked at the small green orb circling the teleporter above and to the left, watching how it spins and trying to find a good position that will guarantee the zip. That was very unreliable too. Then I looked at the ingame clock... and I knew I had my reference point. The blocks start their cycle when the stage loads, so the timer will ALWAYS be in the same place when the zip window shows up.

So I started making a list of the times that worked and the ones that didn't, and quickly found that some of the times would work sometimes and not work other times, so I figured it was based on the pixel Lilac's standing on when you pause. Going off that assumption, I built a table of what worked and what didn't, with hundredths of a second up the left side of the table, and pixels listed across the top.

As it turns out, the further left you are, the bigger the window is - because you can start holding right at any time during when Lilac is being pushed to the right by the lower-left block. The closer to the middle of that block you are, the more frames the game gives you to start pressing right.

Anything left of the no-buffer one pixel zip position is really easy, though. You want to re-pause until the timer goes past 0:27:76, and not too close to 0:28:00. It's not hard to unpause and re-pause and only allow about a tenth of a second to pass. When you have the right time, hold right and unpause. You may need to get a boost ram to the right if Lilac doesn't get far enough into the wall.

Thanks for making those, YTXZ!  Really appreciate it.

I came up with a new FD4 zip strategy that makes it a ton easier to get first try every time, but costs real time: pause buffering.

I've been relying on pushing to the right to get the zip sometimes when I don't get the one pixel position in time, and I decided to try a pause buffer based on what I saw nearby.  First I tried using the blocks themselves, but that turned out to be very unreliable.  So I looked at the small green orb circling the teleporter above and to the left, watching how it spins and trying to find a good position that will guarantee the zip.  That was very unreliable too.  Then I looked at the ingame clock... and I knew I had my reference point.  The blocks start their cycle when the stage loads, so the timer will ALWAYS be in the same place when the zip window shows up.

So I started making a list of the times that worked and the ones that didn't, and quickly found that some of the times would work sometimes and not work other times, so I figured it was based on the pixel Lilac's standing on when you pause.  Going off that assumption, I built a table of what worked and what didn't, with hundredths of a second up the left side of the table, and pixels listed across the top.

As it turns out, the further left you are, the bigger the window is - because you can start holding right at any time during when Lilac is being pushed to the right by the lower-left block.  The closer to the middle of that block you are, the more frames the game gives you to start pressing right.

Anything left of the no-buffer one pixel zip position is really easy, though.  You want to re-pause until the timer goes past 0:27:76, and not too close to 0:28:00.  It's not hard to unpause and re-pause and only allow about a tenth of a second to pass.  When you have the right time, hold right and unpause.  You may need to get a boost ram to the right if Lilac doesn't get far enough into the wall.

2015-05-26 09:39:59 pm

Lilac now joins the cool kids club for having a sub 5 Battle Glacier. Didn't take me as long as last time to reclaim my stage.

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-05-30 08:54:06 pm

2015-05-30 08:53:54 pm

Here's a strat for Milla on the second screen of BG:

The last 3 bursts before the hangbar must be really precise.
Failing it at the beginning costs a lot of time (at least 2 cycles).

2015-06-01 04:50:11 pm

New mantalith phase skip that I have no idea how to replicate.
Well, maybe. It looks like he might have retained i-frames during the whole thing, but still...
Inclded whole fight because fuck it why not. Phase 3 is the one you wanna look at.

Edit history:

Mylexsi: 2015-06-04 03:31:30 am

Mylexsi: 2015-06-04 03:28:55 am

2015-06-04 03:25:48 am

Mentioned to johann last night. Should probably put it in here:

Lilac's damage values:

Standing Hair Whip: 4dmg x 3 - Hits every 5th frame.

Running Kick: 4dmg x 2 - Hits every 5th frame.

Aerial Kick: 4dmg x 2-or-3(depending on...the enemy?) - Hits every 5th frame.

Divekick: 3dmg x many - Hits every 5th frame

Uppercut - Untested. Likely 3dmg per 5 frames.

Cyclone: 2dmg x many - Hits every 7th frame

Crouch Kick: 2dmg x 1.

Dragon Boost: [ 1 + (Speed / 4) ]dmg x many - Hits every 5th frame
--- Notes on this:
- Speed goes from 0(standstill) to 15(max speed). A Dragon Boost will by default set your speed to 12(if it was below that)
- Damage cannot be a fraction. If it would be a fraction, the game rounds it down.

If you want to do some testing yourself, there's a couple of ways:

- Fight Brevon3, frame-advance a recording, and/or measure the pixels lost on his health bar
- The Claw Arm miniboss in RM has 18hp and gets i-frames regardless of how much damage it takes(It's the only boss like this). Hit it and use deduction.

Mentioned to johann last night. Should probably put it in here:

[b]Lilac's damage values:[/b]

Standing Hair Whip: 4dmg x 3 - Hits every 5th frame.

Running Kick: 4dmg x 2 - Hits every 5th frame.

Aerial Kick: 4dmg x 2-or-3(depending on...the enemy?) - Hits every 5th frame.

Divekick: 3dmg x many - Hits every 5th frame

Uppercut - Untested. Likely 3dmg per 5 frames.

Cyclone: 2dmg x many - Hits every 7th frame

Crouch Kick: 2dmg x 1.

Dragon Boost: [ 1 + (Speed / 4) ]dmg x many - Hits every 5th frame
--- Notes on this:
- Speed goes from 0(standstill) to 15(max speed). A Dragon Boost will by default set your speed to 12(if it was below that)
- Damage cannot be a fraction. If it would be a fraction, the game rounds it down.

If you want to do some testing yourself, there's a couple of ways:

- Fight Brevon3, frame-advance a recording, and/or measure the pixels lost on his health bar
- The Claw Arm miniboss in RM has 18hp and gets i-frames regardless of how much damage it takes(It's the only boss like this). Hit it and use deduction.

2015-06-04 07:11:37 am

Viking it up

The advantage of dragon boost, divekick, and uppercut is that these attacks are not limited by human ability to press a button precisely, or by an attack's cooldown period.

The advantage of divekick and uppercut over dragon boost is that, despite doing less damage, they cost no meter and can be spammed.

In other words, general fight philosophy would be "Dragon Boost when you can, Uppercut and Divekick when you can't, and when you can't do any of that, spam kick."