Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu

2008-01-31 07:09:19 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Hi SDA,

I'm a huge fan of the Fire Emblem series, and after seeing speedruns of all the GBA ones (I loved them all by the way), I wanted to try and have a hand at one of my favourites myself. However, I lack the meanings to do and record a run for it to be accepted (no SNES or Japanese cartridges). Nonetheless, I was wondering if some experienced speedrunners could help me with ideas and tips. After all, nothing stops me from recording my own run for fun and putting it on Youtube.

I couldn't find anything in the FAQ about a rule that forbids you to ask for help on speedruns that are not meant for the site, but if there's one nonetheless I apologize.

For the game, here's a few notes that stuck out to me:
- This game uses really really big maps, and only twelve of them.

- You seize multiple times during chapters.

- The game is divided into first generation and second generation, where the children of the first generation feature in the second. To get the best stats out of the kids, you pair up a male and a female unit in the first generation. Depending on which male you attach to which female, the children change. If you do not pair them up, you get quite inferior substitutes.

- Mounted units get to move after every single of their actions in this game, except seizing and talking.

- The Lord of the first generation kicks ass. 9 movement, great stats, access to swords, gets a Silver Sword really quickly, etcetera. The second generation Lord is more of a GBA one, but he promotes into the same class as Sigurd.

Here is my vague plan so far. I am not an experienced speedrunner at all, though I've worked with turn deadlines before (I played all GBA games, and I played Rekka No Ken ranked).

During the first generation, Sigurd will do the asskicking for the most part, since he has to seize anyway. I am already practicing on a run, and I got prologue covered in 13 turns, I think I can make that twelve.

If I'm using other people, I will be using mounted ones, as those can move after attacking and keep up with Sigurd.
The two cavaliers you get, Alec and Noish, are quite big failures, and given the lack of easy RN manipulation in this game, I don't think I can make them worthwhile enough.

There's Cuan, who like Sigurd, is prepromoted. He leaves after Ch3, but until then he is the only 9 move unit I get and he is fairly sturdy. He just doesn't have the Pursuit skill (which you need to double in this game) or access to swords, so he sucks at dodging.

Fin is an unpromoted version of Cuan, except he does have Pursuit. He leaves after Ch3 too, but comes back in the second generation at Ch7. If I'd train him, that would save a lot of time. He gets the Hero Lance during Ch2, which really allows him to clean up shop when trained.

Midir is an Archknight. This means he doesn't do anything on enemy phase, which will be great hindrance, and his stats are pretty bad. I used him during prologue to speed up Sigurd's course to the last castle, and I think that will be all.

Beowulf comes relatively underpowered, despite swords and pursuit I do not think he's worth a lot.

Ethlin is the only mounted healer in generation 1 besides Lachesis (who needs to promote to get a mount, and that costs a lot of time considering she comes at L2 in Ch2), and she leaves with Cuan at the end of Ch3.

For the second generation, I would need to make pairings for the kids that are important. I am worried a bit by the low turn count I will have combined with needing some serious turns to build up pairings, so maybe I will have to go with substitutes for a large part.

If I'm making pairings:
- Midir x Aideen gives me a usable Lester (Bow Knight) if I need him. Rana will be worthless.
- Ayra's kids are both unmounted, so they are probably a no overall. In fact, I may not recruit Ayra at all if that saves time.
- Both of Lachesis' kids, Delmud and Nanna, are mounted, but quite underpowered. They do have Charisma to make Celice better, but especially Nanna is really frail.
- Fury's kids may be very important. Fee, like Fury, is a Pegasus Knight, and while there's no rescuing for easy transportation in this game, Fee can help killing Brigands that burn down villages to hurt the clock. Sety is a prepromoted Sage with great stats if Levin/Claude/Azel is his father, but otherwise he's not much special for a speedrun I think.
- Tiltyu gets two Mage kids. Daughter Tinny is pretty worthless and I might even kill her off (she comes as an enemy), but if I pair Tiltyu with Levin, the son Arthur will get Holsety. Arthur promotes into a Mage Knight with 8 move, so he's my best option for 1-2 range on a mounted unit.

Looking at it overall, the first generation should be all about Sigurd, Cuan, Fin and perhaps one other person to assist Sigurd, but I can't think of who. Second generation gives me Celice who is worse than Sigurd, but also many more good mounted units to work with in (now hopefully promoted) Fin, Oifaye, Ares and promoted Arthur.

Thanks for help beforehand.

Thread title:

Hi SDA,

I'm a huge fan of the Fire Emblem series, and after seeing speedruns of all the GBA ones (I loved them all by the way), I wanted to try and have a hand at one of my favourites myself. However, I lack the meanings to do and record a run for it to be accepted (no SNES or Japanese cartridges). Nonetheless, I was wondering if some experienced speedrunners could help me with ideas and tips. After all, nothing stops me from recording my own run for fun and putting it on Youtube.

I couldn't find anything in the FAQ about a rule that forbids you to ask for help on speedruns that are not meant for the site, but if there's one nonetheless I apologize.

For the game, here's a few notes that stuck out to me:
- This game uses really really big maps, and only twelve of them.

- You seize multiple times during chapters.

- The game is divided into first generation and second generation, where the children of the first generation feature in the second. To get the best stats out of the kids, you pair up a male and a female unit in the first generation. Depending on which male you attach to which female, the children change. If you do not pair them up, you get quite inferior substitutes.

- Mounted units get to move after every single of their actions in this game, except seizing and talking.

- The Lord of the first generation kicks ass. 9 movement, great stats, access to swords, gets a Silver Sword really quickly, etcetera. The second generation Lord is more of a GBA one, but he promotes into the same class as Sigurd.

Here is my vague plan so far. I am not an experienced speedrunner at all, though I've worked with turn deadlines before (I played all GBA games, and I played Rekka No Ken ranked).

During the first generation, Sigurd will do the asskicking for the most part, since he has to seize anyway. I am already practicing on a run, and I got prologue covered in 13 turns, I think I can make that twelve.

If I'm using other people, I will be using mounted ones, as those can move after attacking and keep up with Sigurd. 
The two cavaliers you get, Alec and Noish, are quite big failures, and given the lack of easy RN manipulation in this game, I don't think I can make them worthwhile enough.

There's Cuan, who like Sigurd, is prepromoted. He leaves after Ch3, but until then he is the only 9 move unit I get and he is fairly sturdy. He just doesn't have the Pursuit skill (which you need to double in this game) or access to swords, so he sucks at dodging.

Fin is an unpromoted version of Cuan, except he does have Pursuit. He leaves after Ch3 too, but comes back in the second generation at Ch7. If I'd train him, that would save a lot of time. He gets the Hero Lance during Ch2, which really allows him to clean up shop when trained.

Midir is an Archknight. This means he doesn't do anything on enemy phase, which will be great hindrance, and his stats are pretty bad. I used him during prologue to speed up Sigurd's course to the last castle, and I think that will be all.

Beowulf comes relatively underpowered, despite swords and pursuit I do not think he's worth a lot.

Ethlin is the only mounted healer in generation 1 besides Lachesis (who needs to promote to get a mount, and that costs a lot of time considering she comes at L2 in Ch2), and she leaves with Cuan at the end of Ch3.

For the second generation, I would need to make pairings for the kids that are important. I am worried a bit by the low turn count I will have combined with needing some serious turns to build up pairings, so maybe I will have to go with substitutes for a large part.

If I'm making pairings:
- Midir x Aideen gives me a usable Lester (Bow Knight) if I need him. Rana will be worthless.
- Ayra's kids are both unmounted, so they are probably a no overall. In fact, I may not recruit Ayra at all if that saves time.
- Both of Lachesis' kids, Delmud and Nanna, are mounted, but quite underpowered. They do have Charisma to make Celice better, but especially Nanna is really frail.
- Fury's kids may be very important. Fee, like Fury, is a Pegasus Knight, and while there's no rescuing for easy transportation in this game, Fee can help killing Brigands that burn down villages to hurt the clock. Sety is a prepromoted Sage with great stats if Levin/Claude/Azel is his father, but otherwise he's not much special for a speedrun I think.
- Tiltyu gets two Mage kids. Daughter Tinny is pretty worthless and I might even kill her off (she comes as an enemy), but if I pair Tiltyu with Levin, the son Arthur will get Holsety. Arthur promotes into a Mage Knight with 8 move, so he's my best option for 1-2 range on a mounted unit.

Looking at it overall, the first generation should be all about Sigurd, Cuan, Fin and perhaps one other person to assist Sigurd, but I can't think of who. Second generation gives me Celice who is worse than Sigurd, but also many more good mounted units to work with in (now hopefully promoted) Fin, Oifaye, Ares and promoted Arthur.

Thanks for help beforehand.

Enhasa

2008-01-31 07:41:14 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Finally, someone wants to run the best Fire Emblem. 8)

I read all that. Looks good, but I have no idea really since I played this so long ago. I'm sure Molotov will be more than happy to get into specifics with you. Wink

Molotov

Edit history:

Molotov: 2008-01-31 10:04:42 pm

2008-01-31 09:18:25 pm

I did some runs of this myself, but the best I was ever able to achieve was something like 8 hours. I made heavy use of the Rescue glitch (someone inside the castle uses Rescue on the castle guard), which gives near-infinite movement. Without it, I doubt you'll be looking at anything under 9.

A problem with this idea is that while the best possible pairing for Rescue glitching is Eden/Claude (for A rank staves on Lana), you can't get the Rescue staff until Chapter 10 using that pairing. Azel/Eden gives you the glitch for Chapters 4 and 5, which is quite useful, but Lana can't initially use A staves and therefore you lose it until Chapter 10 again. That is, unless you did Claude/Fury, in which case you would get it back from Sety in Chapter 8.

A possible solution to this is to recruit and train Lachesis until she can promote, give her Rescue at the end of Chapter 5, and pair her up with Claude. If I'm right (which I'm probably not), this will give Nanna an A in staves and you can therefore use Rescue glitches from Chapter 7 (worst in the game) onward. If you want to make maximum usage of this, make sure she gets a Return Ring at some point (Phillip is unlikely), so that you can immediately glitch Chapter 7 (and thus easily save Leaf/Fin).

If you can swing it, I'd assume that is the best thing to do (if you can get her the Elite Ring). This would have the added bonuses of providing a good mounted unit with Charisma.

Also worth noting is that Sharlowe is potentially useful for his Berserk staff (use on Zehn). Not sure if you want to go for this method instead of Narga to thrash Julius (1 HP damage people cause glitches, I think), but it's something to consider at least.

Quote:

The two cavaliers you get, Alec and Noish, are quite big failures, and given the lack of easy RN manipulation in this game, I don't think I can make them worthwhile enough.

For Generation 1, stick with Sigurd, Cuan, Lex (Hero Axe), and Lachesis (only if you plan to Rescue glitch). Those are the people I've always used though, so your experience may vary. Also, use Adan to grab the Pursuit Ring and Fin for the Hero Lance (which you then sell to Sigurd or Cuan).

Quote:

Ayra's kids are both unmounted, so they are probably a no overall. In fact, I may not recruit Ayra at all if that saves time.

Personally, I kill off Ayra because it's not worth the effort to get her. Early Hero Sword would be great if you want to go for it (sell to Sigurd), but Celice gets one in Chapter 7 anyway.

Quote:

Tiltyu gets two Mage kids. Daughter Tinny is pretty worthless and I might even kill her off (she comes as an enemy), but if I pair Tiltyu with Levin, the son Arthur will get Holsety. Arthur promotes into a Mage Knight with 8 move, so he's my best option for 1-2 range on a mounted unit.

Levin/Tiltyu is very important, yes. I'd say forget Sety though and just go with Hawk (who is actually quite good, even if it doesn't matter much with glitching).

Also, if Nitrodon posts my .smv files here (hint hint :P), I'd really recommend watching them to get an idea of what you should/shouldn't do.

[Edit]: Nitrodon reminded me that Eden/Claude can get the Rescue staff in Chapter 5, so the whole second generation is covered in that setup. Worth looking into, if Lachesis powerleveling turns out to be a bad idea.

[Edit 2]: Disregard anything about Lachesis. Nitrodon reminded me (again) that minor holy blood is only +1 weapon rank and Nanna starts at C (Rescue is obviously A). No dice there.

I did some runs of this myself, but the best I was ever able to achieve was something like 8 hours. I made heavy use of the Rescue glitch (someone inside the castle uses Rescue on the castle guard), which gives near-infinite movement. Without it, I doubt you'll be looking at anything under 9.

A problem with this idea is that while the best possible pairing for Rescue glitching is Eden/Claude (for A rank staves on Lana), you can't get the Rescue staff until Chapter 10 using that pairing. Azel/Eden gives you the glitch for Chapters 4 and 5, which is quite useful, but Lana can't initially use A staves and therefore you lose it until Chapter 10 again. That is, unless you did Claude/Fury, in which case you would get it back from Sety in Chapter 8.

A possible solution to this is to recruit and train Lachesis until she can promote, give her Rescue at the end of Chapter 5, and pair her up with Claude. If I'm right (which I'm probably not), this will give Nanna an A in staves and you can therefore use Rescue glitches from Chapter 7 (worst in the game) onward. If you want to make maximum usage of this, make sure she gets a Return Ring at some point (Phillip is unlikely), so that you can immediately glitch Chapter 7 (and thus easily save Leaf/Fin).

If you can swing it, I'd assume that is the best thing to do (if you can get her the Elite Ring). This would have the added bonuses of providing a good mounted unit with Charisma.

Also worth noting is that Sharlowe is potentially useful for his Berserk staff (use on Zehn). Not sure if you want to go for this method instead of Narga to thrash Julius (1 HP damage people cause glitches, I think), but it's something to consider at least.

[quote]The two cavaliers you get, Alec and Noish, are quite big failures, and given the lack of easy RN manipulation in this game, I don't think I can make them worthwhile enough.[/quote]
For Generation 1, stick with Sigurd, Cuan, Lex (Hero Axe), and Lachesis (only if you plan to Rescue glitch). Those are the people I've always used though, so your experience may vary. Also, use Adan to grab the Pursuit Ring and Fin for the Hero Lance (which you then sell to Sigurd or Cuan).

[quote]Ayra's kids are both unmounted, so they are probably a no overall. In fact, I may not recruit Ayra at all if that saves time.[/quote]
Personally, I kill off Ayra because it's not worth the effort to get her. Early Hero Sword would be great if you want to go for it (sell to Sigurd), but Celice gets one in Chapter 7 anyway.

[quote]Tiltyu gets two Mage kids. Daughter Tinny is pretty worthless and I might even kill her off (she comes as an enemy), but if I pair Tiltyu with Levin, the son Arthur will get Holsety. Arthur promotes into a Mage Knight with 8 move, so he's my best option for 1-2 range on a mounted unit.[/quote]
Levin/Tiltyu is very important, yes. I'd say forget Sety though and just go with Hawk (who is actually quite good, even if it doesn't matter much with glitching).

Also, if Nitrodon posts my .smv files here (hint hint :P), I'd really recommend watching them to get an idea of what you should/shouldn't do.

[Edit]: Nitrodon reminded me that Eden/Claude can get the Rescue staff in Chapter 5, so the whole second generation is covered in that setup. Worth looking into, if Lachesis powerleveling turns out to be a bad idea.

[Edit 2]: Disregard anything about Lachesis. Nitrodon reminded me (again) that minor holy blood is only +1 weapon rank and Nanna starts at C (Rescue is obviously A). No dice there.

Meekah

2008-02-01 12:48:27 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Thanks for the heads up.

Quote:

I did some runs of this myself, but the best I was ever able to achieve was something like 8 hours. I made heavy use of the Rescue glitch (someone inside the castle uses Rescue on the castle guard), which gives near-infinite movement. Without it, I doubt you'll be looking at anything under 9.

That is...a lot more than I was hoping for, and I'm not even good at speedrunning. I kind of don't even want to use glitches like that. If I'm doing it though, I will indeed do Claude/Aideen.

Quote:

Also worth noting is that Sharlowe is potentially useful for his Berserk staff (use on Zehn). Not sure if you want to go for this method instead of Narga to thrash Julius (1 HP damage people cause glitches, I think), but it's something to consider at least.

I'd have to recruit Hannibal then to even obtain it, and I'd need someone with more Mag than Zehn has resistance. I wouldn't consider Berserking an enemy a glitch, but if it does cause problems I might not even want to do it.

I know for a fact Celice can take on Julius on his own as long as he stands on the gate, but Julia will probably make the Dark Warlords go a lot faster, especially those with 1-2 range...not sure if this compensates for not having to go to Velthomer at all.

Quote:

For Generation 1, stick with Sigurd, Cuan, Lex (Hero Axe), and Lachesis (only if you plan to Rescue glitch). Those are the people I've always used though, so your experience may vary. Also, use Adan to grab the Pursuit Ring and Fin for the Hero Lance (which you then sell to Sigurd or Cuan).

Lex? I don't think he's bad at all, but getting the Hero Axe takes so much time and unlike Fin and Sigurd he cannot one-round until that point.

I see you aren't recommending Fin at all...would you not use him? This testrun I got a lucky Fin that allowed him to take 3 Brigand blows in Ch1 and live with 1HP, so that he took out everyone except the Hunters, Kinbois and two Hand Axe Axefighters in one round while Sigurd wrapped up the Mountain Thief. He seems like a very useful unit to me, especially considering he actually returns in Ch7 and from there has the ability to own whatever he wants to. Does Sigurd even need that Hero Lance when he already has a Silver and a Steel Sword?

Pursuit Ring takes time to get. Who should buy it? Levin and Arthur would enjoy it, but repairing Holsety already costs a lot of money.

Quote:

Personally, I kill off Ayra because it's not worth the effort to get her. Early Hero Sword would be great if you want to go for it (sell to Sigurd), but Celice gets one in Chapter 7 anyway.

Yeah, when I went for the castle she's near I just accepted that Ayra would probably die, but if I could recruit her without losing too much time I would. I actually ended up recruiting her once, but she died to a Brigand she was distracting anyway.

Quote:

Levin/Tiltyu is very important, yes. I'd say forget Sety though and just go with Hawk (who is actually quite good, even if it doesn't matter much with glitching).

I was planning on using Sety/Hawk as a Pent of sorts, or maybe a distraction force/castle guard for Ch9. Won't matter much.

I'm kind of worried that enemies will hestitate to attack Arthur because of his massive avoid. ~_~

Thanks for the heads up.

[quote] I did some runs of this myself, but the best I was ever able to achieve was something like 8 hours. I made heavy use of the Rescue glitch (someone inside the castle uses Rescue on the castle guard), which gives near-infinite movement. Without it, I doubt you'll be looking at anything under 9. [/quote]

That is...a lot more than I was hoping for, and I'm not even good at speedrunning. I kind of don't even want to use glitches like that. If I'm doing it though, I will indeed do Claude/Aideen.

[quote]Also worth noting is that Sharlowe is potentially useful for his Berserk staff (use on Zehn). Not sure if you want to go for this method instead of Narga to thrash Julius (1 HP damage people cause glitches, I think), but it's something to consider at least. [/quote]

I'd have to recruit Hannibal then to even obtain it, and I'd need someone with more Mag than Zehn has resistance. I wouldn't consider Berserking an enemy a glitch, but if it does cause problems I might not even want to do it.

I know for a fact Celice can take on Julius on his own as long as he stands on the gate, but Julia will probably make the Dark Warlords go a lot faster, especially those with 1-2 range...not sure if this compensates for not having to go to Velthomer at all.

[quote] For Generation 1, stick with Sigurd, Cuan, Lex (Hero Axe), and Lachesis (only if you plan to Rescue glitch). Those are the people I've always used though, so your experience may vary. Also, use Adan to grab the Pursuit Ring and Fin for the Hero Lance (which you then sell to Sigurd or Cuan).[/quote]

Lex? I don't think he's bad at all, but getting the Hero Axe takes so much time and unlike Fin and Sigurd he cannot one-round until that point.

I see you aren't recommending Fin at all...would you not use him? This testrun I got a lucky Fin that allowed him to take 3 Brigand blows in Ch1 and live with 1HP, so that he took out everyone except the Hunters, Kinbois and two Hand Axe Axefighters in one round while Sigurd wrapped up the Mountain Thief. He seems like a very useful unit to me, especially considering he actually returns in Ch7 and from there has the ability to own whatever he wants to. Does Sigurd even need that Hero Lance when he already has a Silver and a Steel Sword?

Pursuit Ring takes time to get. Who should buy it? Levin and Arthur would enjoy it, but repairing Holsety already costs a lot of money.

[quote] Personally, I kill off Ayra because it's not worth the effort to get her. Early Hero Sword would be great if you want to go for it (sell to Sigurd), but Celice gets one in Chapter 7 anyway. [/quote]

Yeah, when I went for the castle she's near I just accepted that Ayra would probably die, but if I could recruit her without losing too much time I would. I actually ended up recruiting her once, but she died to a Brigand she was distracting anyway.

[quote]Levin/Tiltyu is very important, yes. I'd say forget Sety though and just go with Hawk (who is actually quite good, even if it doesn't matter much with glitching). [/quote]

I was planning on using Sety/Hawk as a Pent of sorts, or maybe a distraction force/castle guard for Ch9. Won't matter much.

I'm kind of worried that enemies will hestitate to attack Arthur because of his massive avoid. ~_~

Molotov

2008-02-01 09:49:45 pm

Quote:

That is...a lot more than I was hoping for, and I'm not even good at speedrunning. I kind of don't even want to use glitches like that. If I'm doing it though, I will indeed do Claude/Aideen.

Though I know you already know, I'd just like to remind you to have Sigurd (plus Barrier Ring, I assume) with enough magic defense to avoid Sleep in Chapter 4.

Also, I pity you for having to do that one the longer way, because of all those mountains/trees. I don't see how Dew could be used there (due to his wimpy level), but I'd love to be surprised. Smiley

Quote:

I'd have to recruit Hannibal then to even obtain it, and I'd need someone with more Mag than Zehn has resistance. I wouldn't consider Berserking an enemy a glitch, but if it does cause problems I might not even want to do it.

I'm just throwing noodles at the wall and seeing which ones stick really. In one of my attempts I used the Sharlowe/Zehn idea (Sharlowe has Elite, so...), but it's in no way fast (obviously).

Speaking of this, while Narga can make Julia win against the generals even at a super low level, it also forces animations and she might need more than one battle to kill some of them. Perhaps you can find some early form of leveling for her, so that you can just Return/promote/Warp and make really quick work of everything.

By the way, I also did the above once (late game Narga leveling), and it took forever. >_<

Quote:

I know for a fact Celice can take on Julius on his own as long as he stands on the gate, but Julia will probably make the Dark Warlords go a lot faster, especially those with 1-2 range...not sure if this compensates for not having to go to Velthomer at all.

If you're crazy lucky (I've only seen it once, I think), you can berserk Zehn with the Berserk Sword. Your odds are so incredibly low that it is ridiculous (5%), but might as well mention it.

Quote:

Lex? I don't think he's bad at all, but getting the Hero Axe takes so much time and unlike Fin and Sigurd he cannot one-round until that point.

The thing about Lex is just that he has some slight durability, decent attack, and he can keep up with Sigurd/Cuan. Elite helps a bit, but he takes far too much damage to be thrown into a warzone recklessly. The Hero Axe doesn't really take much time to get, since you can have him moving there while Sigurd takes care of business.

Quote:

I see you aren't recommending Fin at all...would you not use him? This testrun I got a lucky Fin that allowed him to take 3 Brigand blows in Ch1 and live with 1HP, so that he took out everyone except the Hunters, Kinbois and two Hand Axe Axefighters in one round while Sigurd wrapped up the Mountain Thief. He seems like a very useful unit to me, especially considering he actually returns in Ch7 and from there has the ability to own whatever he wants to. Does Sigurd even need that Hero Lance when he already has a Silver and a Steel Sword?

Well, if you like using Fin and can swing it, go for it. Personally, I find him to be too weak to be reliable. Also, Sigurd is just a suggestion (helps for boss killing, since you can seize in the same turn), which is obviously more effective in a glitch run. Cuan might appreciate it more, but he also gets a Silver Lance and Geyborg anyway.

Quote:

Pursuit Ring takes time to get. Who should buy it? Levin and Arthur would enjoy it, but repairing Holsety already costs a lot of money.

Pursuit doesn't take that long to get, assuming you warp Adan to the nearby castle first (Heirhein?). Levin is the one I had in mind, yes. He can swing it through some village visiting (he's not super useful for me in Chapter 2 anyway) and grabbing the Bargain Ring while he's there.

Quote:

I'm kind of worried that enemies will hestitate to attack Arthur because of his massive avoid. ~_~

That can obviously become a problem, but there's not much you can do about it other than using Elwind/Tornado instead and/or moving onto road tiles. :/

Also, here is a link to a .zip with the latest .smv files: Link. The odd name comes from my system of numbering my attempts, by the way. The result time is also amazingly wrong, for some reason I can't understand.

[quote]That is...a lot more than I was hoping for, and I'm not even good at speedrunning. I kind of don't even want to use glitches like that. If I'm doing it though, I will indeed do Claude/Aideen.[/quote]
Though I know you already know, I'd just like to remind you to have Sigurd (plus Barrier Ring, I assume) with enough magic defense to avoid Sleep in Chapter 4.

Also, I pity you for having to do that one the longer way, because of all those mountains/trees. I don't see how Dew could be used there (due to his wimpy level), but I'd love to be surprised. :)

[quote]I'd have to recruit Hannibal then to even obtain it, and I'd need someone with more Mag than Zehn has resistance. I wouldn't consider Berserking an enemy a glitch, but if it does cause problems I might not even want to do it.[/quote]
I'm just throwing noodles at the wall and seeing which ones stick really. In one of my attempts I used the Sharlowe/Zehn idea (Sharlowe has Elite, so...), but it's in no way fast (obviously).

Speaking of this, while Narga can make Julia win against the generals even at a super low level, it also forces animations and she might need more than one battle to kill some of them. Perhaps you can find some early form of leveling for her, so that you can just Return/promote/Warp and make really quick work of everything.

By the way, I also did the above once (late game Narga leveling), and it took forever. >_<

[quote]I know for a fact Celice can take on Julius on his own as long as he stands on the gate, but Julia will probably make the Dark Warlords go a lot faster, especially those with 1-2 range...not sure if this compensates for not having to go to Velthomer at all.[/quote]
If you're [b]crazy[/b] lucky (I've only seen it once, I think), you can berserk Zehn with the Berserk Sword. Your odds are so incredibly low that it is ridiculous (5%), but might as well mention it.

[quote]Lex? I don't think he's bad at all, but getting the Hero Axe takes so much time and unlike Fin and Sigurd he cannot one-round until that point.[/quote]
The thing about Lex is just that he has some slight durability, decent attack, and he can keep up with Sigurd/Cuan. Elite helps a bit, but he takes far too much damage to be thrown into a warzone recklessly. The Hero Axe doesn't really take much time to get, since you can have him moving there while Sigurd takes care of business.

[quote]I see you aren't recommending Fin at all...would you not use him? This testrun I got a lucky Fin that allowed him to take 3 Brigand blows in Ch1 and live with 1HP, so that he took out everyone except the Hunters, Kinbois and two Hand Axe Axefighters in one round while Sigurd wrapped up the Mountain Thief. He seems like a very useful unit to me, especially considering he actually returns in Ch7 and from there has the ability to own whatever he wants to. Does Sigurd even need that Hero Lance when he already has a Silver and a Steel Sword?[/quote]
Well, if you like using Fin and can swing it, go for it. Personally, I find him to be too weak to be reliable. Also, Sigurd is just a suggestion (helps for boss killing, since you can seize in the same turn), which is obviously more effective in a glitch run. Cuan might appreciate it more, but he also gets a Silver Lance and Geyborg anyway.

[quote]Pursuit Ring takes time to get. Who should buy it? Levin and Arthur would enjoy it, but repairing Holsety already costs a lot of money.[/quote]
Pursuit doesn't take that long to get, assuming you warp Adan to the nearby castle first (Heirhein?). Levin is the one I had in mind, yes. He can swing it through some village visiting (he's not super useful for me in Chapter 2 anyway) and grabbing the Bargain Ring while he's there.

[quote]I'm kind of worried that enemies will hestitate to attack Arthur because of his massive avoid. ~_~[/quote]
That can obviously become a problem, but there's not much you can do about it other than using Elwind/Tornado instead and/or moving onto road tiles. :/

Also, here is a link to a .zip with the latest .smv files: [url=http://www.geocities.com/kessenaddict/fivetimesthepain.zip]Link.[/url] The odd name comes from my system of numbering my attempts, by the way. The result time is also amazingly wrong, for some reason I can't understand.

Meekah

2008-02-01 11:21:25 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I will check out your files tomorrow and see if I get any ideas. For now, my rough plan until Ch7:

Prologue: Sigurd kills, Cuan and Fin help, Ethlin heals, Midir helps a bit, Azel/Lex/Cavs kill Mountain Thieves to stop villages from burning. Fin gets Speed Ring.
Ch1: Cuan talks to Fin for stat boosts. Fin gets Steel Lance and tries to trigger Prayer on Kinbois so he kills all but the ranged attackers and the boss. Sigurd kills the mountain thief, then hurries on to seize the castle Ayra is near. If this proves troublesome due to Ayra's doubling, he will get the Speed Ring instead. Possibly tagging Lex along.
Ch2: Deirdre gets Ethlin the Light Sword if Ethlin is joining the fray to Heirhein. Sigurd, Fin, Cuan and maybe Lex go for the Bargain Ring saving, probably skipping Nodion altogether. The Return Ring from Phillip would help Sigurd in Ch4 and probably Celice in Ch7. Fin gets Hero Lance from Cuan and levels up. Levin takes out as many Mountain Thieves as rendable with Sylvia's help, saves the Bargain Ring, and then gets all the cash. Ardan can go for the Pursuit Ring. I don't think I'm recruiting Holyn or Beowulf, and Fury I'll have to think over quite a bit depending on if I need Sety's stave utility.
Ch3: Levin can buy Pursuit Ring using Bargain, I hope. Probably splitting up people. Fin to the left with a Javelin so he can ambush Elthsan's Cross Knights. Without Lachesis I will have to kill him or lure him away, I'm not sure how I'm solving that yet. Cuan can be castle guard, go to the right or help Fin with Elthsan. Sigurd goes to the north and seizes as quickly as humanly possible, he may need that Speed Ring now. Deirdre gives Sigurd all her cash from selling Aura and Silence. Levin should probably go north with Sigurd and stay there for the Pirates and Dragon Knights, and when he's done with that he can go to Tiltyu while Sigurd makes a trip around the world. Him getting the Leg Ring isn't the most desirable thing considering he could just stay at the castle in Ch4, but whatever. Levin tries to get to Tiltyu ASAP, Brigid can probably act as a roadblock on the beach to avoid as much combat as possible.
Ch4: Levin stays as a castle guard. Sigurd tries to slay everything in his way, no idea how he's going to take out these 1-2 range people but I'll figure out something. This is another reason to whore up Lachesis. Dew can go behind Sigurd, but out of enemy range until they're gone, and reopen the bridge. Return Ring helps to get him back quickly. Levin must get Holsety, and he might as well kill a lot of things as he's good at it now.
Ch5: I need to save Byron and repair the Tyrfing, even if only for a few uses. He obviously should talk to me and not vice versa or I'm locked with 30 Wt and 0 Mt. Sigurd really needs the Leg Ring to get through the desert. Someone remotely good should guard the castle while Levin assists with fighting, but he also needs to fall in love with Tiltyu. If I recruited Fury, I can lure Reptor's army into the desert, where Levin makes short work of them. Holsety must have 50 uses and Levin must have a ton of cool seller items at the end of this chapter. Elite and Leg Ring should probably be on Sigurd.

Ch6: Oifaye and Celice should do this together, maybe with Delmud. Rana might need to inherit Libro to help at a distance, it will help Fee's durability when she's stopping mountain thieves. Once time I solo'ed this chapter with Elite Celice and he promoted at the start of Ch7, if I could manage that here that would be great. Arthur will train on everything in sight, but will probably not be seeing Celice.
Ch7: Celice must have the Leg Ring to make it to Yied in time. Daisy surviving gets me Sleep Sword and Hero Sword and she obviously gives Shannan Balmunk, so she's pretty vital. Shannan can keep her alive. In the meantime, Arthur is probably my best bet against these Dark Mages, unless I managed to recruit an Axe Brother and got the Hero Axe on them. I don't think I'm bothering with Darna at all, screw you Laylea. Instead, Arthur will lead the attack on Melgen. Celice comes down to seize, then Ares comes down to help me. I don't think he can take on all of Jabarro's forces. He's better off fighting the Freege Thundermages, though Arthur will do just fine there. Blume stands no chance against Arthur. Fin will hold off everything he sees with ease.

I will check out your files tomorrow and see if I get any ideas. For now, my rough plan until Ch7:

Prologue: Sigurd kills, Cuan and Fin help, Ethlin heals, Midir helps a bit, Azel/Lex/Cavs kill Mountain Thieves to stop villages from burning. Fin gets Speed Ring.
Ch1: Cuan talks to Fin for stat boosts. Fin gets Steel Lance and tries to trigger Prayer on Kinbois so he kills all but the ranged attackers and the boss. Sigurd kills the mountain thief, then hurries on to seize the castle Ayra is near. If this proves troublesome due to Ayra's doubling, he will get the Speed Ring instead. Possibly tagging Lex along.
Ch2: Deirdre gets Ethlin the Light Sword if Ethlin is joining the fray to Heirhein. Sigurd, Fin, Cuan and maybe Lex go for the Bargain Ring saving, probably skipping Nodion altogether. The Return Ring from Phillip would help Sigurd in Ch4 and probably Celice in Ch7. Fin gets Hero Lance from Cuan and levels up. Levin takes out as many Mountain Thieves as rendable with Sylvia's help, saves the Bargain Ring, and then gets all the cash. Ardan can go for the Pursuit Ring. I don't think I'm recruiting Holyn or Beowulf, and Fury I'll have to think over quite a bit depending on if I need Sety's stave utility.
Ch3: Levin can buy Pursuit Ring using Bargain, I hope. Probably splitting up people. Fin to the left with a Javelin so he can ambush Elthsan's Cross Knights. Without Lachesis I will have to kill him or lure him away, I'm not sure how I'm solving that yet. Cuan can be castle guard, go to the right or help Fin with Elthsan. Sigurd goes to the north and seizes as quickly as humanly possible, he may need that Speed Ring now. Deirdre gives Sigurd all her cash from selling Aura and Silence. Levin should probably go north with Sigurd and stay there for the Pirates and Dragon Knights, and when he's done with that he can go to Tiltyu while Sigurd makes a trip around the world. Him getting the Leg Ring isn't the most desirable thing considering he could just stay at the castle in Ch4, but whatever. Levin tries to get to Tiltyu ASAP, Brigid can probably act as a roadblock on the beach to avoid as much combat as possible.
Ch4: Levin stays as a castle guard. Sigurd tries to slay everything in his way, no idea how he's going to take out these 1-2 range people but I'll figure out something. This is another reason to whore up Lachesis. Dew can go behind Sigurd, but out of enemy range until they're gone, and reopen the bridge. Return Ring helps to get him back quickly. Levin must get Holsety, and he might as well kill a lot of things as he's good at it now.
Ch5: I need to save Byron and repair the Tyrfing, even if only for a few uses. He obviously should talk to me and not vice versa or I'm locked with 30 Wt and 0 Mt. Sigurd really needs the Leg Ring to get through the desert. Someone remotely good should guard the castle while Levin assists with fighting, but he also needs to fall in love with Tiltyu. If I recruited Fury, I can lure Reptor's army into the desert, where Levin makes short work of them. Holsety must have 50 uses and Levin must have a ton of cool seller items at the end of this chapter. Elite and Leg Ring should probably be on Sigurd.

Ch6: Oifaye and Celice should do this together, maybe with Delmud. Rana might need to inherit Libro to help at a distance, it will help Fee's durability when she's stopping mountain thieves. Once time I solo'ed this chapter with Elite Celice and he promoted at the start of Ch7, if I could manage that here that would be great. Arthur will train on everything in sight, but will probably not be seeing Celice.
Ch7: Celice must have the Leg Ring to make it to Yied in time. Daisy surviving gets me Sleep Sword and Hero Sword and she obviously gives Shannan Balmunk, so she's pretty vital. Shannan can keep her alive. In the meantime, Arthur is probably my best bet against these Dark Mages, unless I managed to recruit an Axe Brother and got the Hero Axe on them. I don't think I'm bothering with Darna at all, screw you Laylea. Instead, Arthur will lead the attack on Melgen. Celice comes down to seize, then Ares comes down to help me. I don't think he can take on all of Jabarro's forces. He's better off fighting the Freege Thundermages, though Arthur will do just fine there. Blume stands no chance against Arthur. Fin will hold off everything he sees with ease.

yoshmaster5

2008-02-03 02:13:00 am

Also tenkiforecast

I love this game, but sadly I can't provide much of any help. ;_;

Really, I can see a few options, but I doubt my advice would be useful. Obviously, the Leg ring, elite Ring, and possibly having Lex have kids would be a good idea. for Elite, of course.

As with Yuria/Narga... I'd say that it's probably needed for killing Yurius. Aside from that, I'd probably get Levin to fall in love with Fury or Tiltyu for Arthur/Sety with Holsety. Possibly Briddget falling in love with someone so Faval has the Ichival. :-/

Aside from that... All I can say is: GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!

Meekah

2008-02-03 03:53:13 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Thanks for trying to help out, but I think the only pairing I'm going to do is Levin/Tiltyu, just for an awesome Arthur with Holsety. :Maybe: I'll do Dew/Aideen just so I get Rana rather than Mana just to make any Librowhoring I'm doing cheaper.

Ayra's kids are unmounted and therefore they won't be able to keep up with my main team. I can't miss the Leg Ring on either of them, however awesome they might be, because Celice needs it for quicker seizing, or even Arthur.

Ignoring Lachesis will likely be a lot quicker than recruiting her. It distracts Elliot's troops completely, allowing Sigurd and co to storm to Heirhein, and when they're done they're weakened to the point where weaker units can finish them off. Pairing Lachesis takes very long anyway, and her best partner (Beowulf) costs me 10k which I'm not willing to spend on him.

I will likely not even recruit Fury, given that Levin is too busy racking up gold from villages. Fee could be useful in some instances, but not much moreso than Femina, and whether I get Sety or Hawk will matter little.

Brigid is actually much better off unpaired so that I don't have to actually FIGHT the Ichieval in Ch9. Without a pairing, I just have to kill or ignore Assaelo, who isn't nearly as much of a threat. I need all my power for Ishtar right there, and I don't think I can stomach bringing Daisy/Patty along there. Plus, Faval isn't mounted either, so he couldn't do much for me.

Anyway, my test run is going quite smoothly. I'm not even recording time yet, just turns to try and find the quickest way to do things. Fin is proving to be quite handsome and worth the raising. I couldn't find much room to raise Lex, but I'll likely beg for him in Ch4 where 3 of my mounted units run off to Lenster.

I tried to play these files but it seems my SNES9x version isn't appropiate. ;.;

Thanks for trying to help out, but I think the only pairing I'm going to do is Levin/Tiltyu, just for an awesome Arthur with Holsety. :Maybe: I'll do Dew/Aideen just so I get Rana rather than Mana just to make any Librowhoring I'm doing cheaper.

Ayra's kids are unmounted and therefore they won't be able to keep up with my main team. I can't miss the Leg Ring on either of them, however awesome they might be, because Celice needs it for quicker seizing, or even Arthur.

Ignoring Lachesis will likely be a lot quicker than recruiting her. It distracts Elliot's troops completely, allowing Sigurd and co to storm to Heirhein, and when they're done they're weakened to the point where weaker units can finish them off. Pairing Lachesis takes very long anyway, and her best partner (Beowulf) costs me 10k which I'm not willing to spend on him.

I will likely not even recruit Fury, given that Levin is too busy racking up gold from villages. Fee could be useful in some instances, but not much moreso than Femina, and whether I get Sety or Hawk will matter little.

Brigid is actually much better off unpaired so that I don't have to actually FIGHT the Ichieval in Ch9. Without a pairing, I just have to kill or ignore Assaelo, who isn't nearly as much of a threat. I need all my power for Ishtar right there, and I don't think I can stomach bringing Daisy/Patty along there. Plus, Faval isn't mounted either, so he couldn't do much for me.

Anyway, my test run is going quite smoothly. I'm not even recording time yet, just turns to try and find the quickest way to do things. Fin is proving to be quite handsome and worth the raising. I couldn't find much room to raise Lex, but I'll likely beg for him in Ch4 where 3 of my mounted units run off to Lenster.

I tried to play these files but it seems my SNES9x version isn't appropiate. ;.;

Molotov

2008-02-03 07:29:20 pm

Quote:

I tried to play these files but it seems my SNES9x version isn't appropiate. ;.;

Get one of the versions of it from here. I personally use "v10", and it plays back the movies correctly (assuming it isn't one of the ones I botched by making it desync).

Quote:

I need all my power for Ishtar right there, and I don't think I can stomach bringing Daisy/Patty along there.

As far as I remember, Arthur can beat her with one arm tied behind his back. Same for fight 2, when she's with Julius.

Quote:

Brigid is actually much better off unpaired...

I just thought I'd mention an amusing fact: In this set of .smv files, Bridget magically falls in love with Fin in Chapter 3...and she has never met him (check the status screen for further giggles). What a stud he must be...

Also, just to be technical, you can pair her without Ichival. Simply don't have Eden give the thing to her, and you're set.

Meekah

Edit history:

Meekah: 2008-02-04 03:36:42 pm

2008-02-04 10:27:45 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

As far as I remember, Arthur can beat her with one arm tied behind his back. Same for fight 2, when she's with Julius.

Arthur beats :anything: with one hand tied behind his back, probably. Shame about the horrid 22 Spd cap. ~_~ Ch8 will be a bit complicated though, but I'll make plans for that when I've actually tried it.

Quote:

I just thought I'd mention an amusing fact: In this set of .smv files, Bridget magically falls in love with Fin in Chapter 3...and she has never met him (check the status screen for further giggles). What a stud he must be...

I had that when I was playing through fast (but not this testrun). To make the Fin/Tiltyu and Fin/Brigid pairings remotely possible, they gave them immense love base/growth, so if you seize Silvail really quickly they are about guaranteed to fall in love if you wait long enough. Shines a new light on FE5 too...

Yeah, I could pair her, but why bother without Ichieval really. I actually suicided her on the pirates so Levin could get more EXP out of them. In the end I could only get him next to Tiltyu for one turn before it was time to seize though.

Let's see if I can get the SMVs to work now...

EDIT:

I watched P-3...you using Fin vs me using Lex is really one of the biggest differences out there. I noticed you did some RNG manipulating with the arena, and at some points you seemed to be really lucky (like, Cuan dodging an Axefighter while holding a Javelin-lucky). Fun stuff.

Sigurd using a Javelin was something that hadn't occurred to me yet. Whenever I needed a ranged attack I had Fin doing that. Later on you switched to Light Sword...I toyed with the idea, but decided not to because it's fairly weak (plus the animation is so damn tedious).

The Steel Lance really seemed to improve his power by a lot...personally I just used his Silver Sword (loved the way you made him obtain it by the way), which meant I couldn't one-round armors like yours could.

I really enjoyed Return Ethlin and Warp Aideen transporting people around. I made Lex walk along in Ch1 which was annoying work, and I did the same with Ethlin in Ch2. She ended up walking all the way to villageland where she Returned Levin. Ethlin using Relive was a great idea as well.

I bought the Magic Ring with Levin as well, but before the pirates. I noticed that the Magic Ring actually hinders his promotion bonus: if he hits his cap when promoting including the Magic Ring, you don't get the rest of the bonus (so if his cap is 27, his Mag is 18+5 and his promotion bonus would be +8, he only gets +4 to hit the 27 cap...just made-up numbers here), so I ended up pawning the Magic Ring, promoting him and then buying it back.

I noticed you promoted him in Ch3 and waited around a lot, probably so he gets some love from Tiltyu? I also saw how Midir talked to Aideen in Ch1 and stood next to her for a while, but then you seemed to have changed plans and did Azel/Aideen for the rest of what I've seen?

EDIT 2:

Alright, just saw the rest. That Rescue glitch is insane, almost demotivating me from trying anything without it. I wonder though (this could hardly be called critism...it's more like curiosity)
- Why didn't you use it on Julia in the final to walk up to Julius? Once Julius is dead, all the Warlords disappear, so Celice can run past Ishtar's army and seize.
- You could have put Julia on the gate entrance, which would have made Julius prioritize attacking her instead of Meteoring Celice.
- Speaking of gate entrance...I didn't know you could stand on corners of castles and attack the guard with 1-range that way? Was that part of the Rescue glitch? I'm curious why you did it either way.
- Why was Celice saving all these civilians in Ch10?
- Wouldn't it have been better to let Celice use the Leg Ring in Ch7? Arthur and Oifaye stood idle for pretty long near the Darna swordguards because Celice didn't seize Yied yet, and it didn't look like Arthur really needed all that movement when he was laying a solo attack on Melgen.

Also, I noticed Celice kept his father's ol' Steel Sword until the very end. I assume you wanted it to build up criticals as quickly as possible?

Anyway, that was just awesome to watch, especially the supershort last few chapters. My favourite parts were:
- Mountain Thieves murdering each other under Berserk condition (Ch7)
- Julius and Ishtar teleporting away with Celice right next to them just because he seized (Ch10)
- Sigurd seizing a castle that got a guard one time turn later (Ch4)
- Arion and Trabant not fighting during Ch9 at all

Letting Arthur kill Tinny though...you are a cruel, cruel man.

[quote]As far as I remember, Arthur can beat her with one arm tied behind his back. Same for fight 2, when she's with Julius.[/quote]

Arthur beats :anything: with one hand tied behind his back, probably. Shame about the horrid 22 Spd cap. ~_~ Ch8 will be a bit complicated though, but I'll make plans for that when I've actually tried it.

[quote] I just thought I'd mention an amusing fact: In this set of .smv files, Bridget magically falls in love with Fin in Chapter 3...and she has never met him (check the status screen for further giggles). What a stud he must be... [/quote]

I had that when I was playing through fast (but not this testrun). To make the Fin/Tiltyu and Fin/Brigid pairings remotely possible, they gave them immense love base/growth, so if you seize Silvail really quickly they are about guaranteed to fall in love if you wait long enough. Shines a new light on FE5 too...

Yeah, I could pair her, but why bother without Ichieval really. I actually suicided her on the pirates so Levin could get more EXP out of them. In the end I could only get him next to Tiltyu for one turn before it was time to seize though.

Let's see if I can get the SMVs to work now...

EDIT:

I watched P-3...you using Fin vs me using Lex is really one of the biggest differences out there. I noticed you did some RNG manipulating with the arena, and at some points you seemed to be really lucky (like, Cuan dodging an Axefighter while holding a Javelin-lucky). Fun stuff.

Sigurd using a Javelin was something that hadn't occurred to me yet. Whenever I needed a ranged attack I had Fin doing that. Later on you switched to Light Sword...I toyed with the idea, but decided not to because it's fairly weak (plus the animation is so damn tedious).

The Steel Lance really seemed to improve his power by a lot...personally I just used his Silver Sword (loved the way you made him obtain it by the way), which meant I couldn't one-round armors like yours could.

I really enjoyed Return Ethlin and Warp Aideen transporting people around. I made Lex walk along in Ch1 which was annoying work, and I did the same with Ethlin in Ch2. She ended up walking all the way to villageland where she Returned Levin. Ethlin using Relive was a great idea as well.

I bought the Magic Ring with Levin as well, but before the pirates. I noticed that the Magic Ring actually hinders his promotion bonus: if he hits his cap when promoting including the Magic Ring, you don't get the rest of the bonus (so if his cap is 27, his Mag is 18+5 and his promotion bonus would be +8, he only gets +4 to hit the 27 cap...just made-up numbers here), so I ended up pawning the Magic Ring, promoting him and then buying it back.

I noticed you promoted him in Ch3 and waited around a lot, probably so he gets some love from Tiltyu? I also saw how Midir talked to Aideen in Ch1 and stood next to her for a while, but then you seemed to have changed plans and did Azel/Aideen for the rest of what I've seen?

EDIT 2:

Alright, just saw the rest. That Rescue glitch is insane, almost demotivating me from trying anything without it. I wonder though (this could hardly be called critism...it's more like curiosity)
- Why didn't you use it on Julia in the final to walk up to Julius? Once Julius is dead, all the Warlords disappear, so Celice can run past Ishtar's army and seize.
- You could have put Julia on the gate entrance, which would have made Julius prioritize attacking her instead of Meteoring Celice.
- Speaking of gate entrance...I didn't know you could stand on corners of castles and attack the guard with 1-range that way? Was that part of the Rescue glitch? I'm curious why you did it either way.
- Why was Celice saving all these civilians in Ch10?
- Wouldn't it have been better to let Celice use the Leg Ring in Ch7? Arthur and Oifaye stood idle for pretty long near the Darna swordguards because Celice didn't seize Yied yet, and it didn't look like Arthur really needed all that movement when he was laying a solo attack on Melgen.

Also, I noticed Celice kept his father's ol' Steel Sword until the very end. I assume you wanted it to build up criticals as quickly as possible?

Anyway, that was just awesome to watch, especially the supershort last few chapters. My favourite parts were:
- Mountain Thieves murdering each other under Berserk condition (Ch7)
- Julius and Ishtar teleporting away with Celice right next to them just because he seized (Ch10)
- Sigurd seizing a castle that got a guard one time turn later (Ch4)
- Arion and Trabant not fighting during Ch9 at all

Letting Arthur kill Tinny though...you are a cruel, cruel man.

yoshmaster5

Edit history:

yoshmaster5: 2008-02-11 03:14:49 am

2008-02-10 09:39:34 pm

Also tenkiforecast

Just downloaded, and I'll start watching soon. ^_^

Edit 1:
Alright, I'm up to halfway through Chapter 2. The issues, or problems I see are possibly a little because of how I tend to play FE games, and a little of my anti-dying policy...

It pains me every tiem I see a recruitable unit die, because... it's how I play the game. X_X; That's not a complaint, it's just my usual reaction. I know its mostly to save time in the long run... I can't imagine how much time woudl be taken up by keeping Lachesis and her 3 guards alive the entire map...

I can't help but feel that in some cases, the lack of able-fighting units is detrimental overall to the gameplay. Laying Seige to Anthony in Ch. 2, I couldn't help but feel that you needed a few more units. From what I can tell, the lack of reliable fighting units leads a little to what I've dubbed, "DESTROY EVERYTHING" syndrome. I wonder if Finn is a good investment, because of his transfer into the 2nd generation. I do understand that this would be lessened because of Celice-tachi's godliness, but it still is a consideration of mine... espically because Lex is levelling up a ton, and he doesn't fall in love with any characters... seems like a waste of Elite to me, but... *shrugs*

Edit 2:
Through chapter 4. Chapter 3 was... Well, I think a number of the pirates could have been killed far earlier... and I didn't see the point in moving out a few people, aside from those you wanted to fall in love. (Fury, Claude, Azel, Eddin). Levin... I kept thinking that he needed another weapon. I guess not, and that just lucked out at the end. ONE USE LEFT. XD Also, Sylvia Prayer FTW! I can't help but think that Sigurd should have gotten the Power Ring in the end because of Cuan's... absence. Plus, Althena takes a while to obtain anyway in chapter 9.

Chapter 4, I was wondering what the hell you were doing at the beginning... and then the Rescue glitch. Holy freaking GOD... that is the most BROKEN thing I've EVER seen in a Fire Emblem game. Holy CRAP... Sigurd raping EVERYTHING. I do think that Tiltyu could have rescued a few more of the citizens... and I burst out laughing when the general/guards spawned at an allied Silesia. That was just... insane. That's all I can say for now.

Just downloaded, and I'll start watching soon. ^_^

Edit 1:
Alright, I'm up to halfway through Chapter 2. The issues, or problems I see are possibly a little because of how I tend to play FE games, and a little of my anti-dying policy...

It pains me every tiem I see a recruitable unit die, because... it's how I play the game. X_X; That's not a complaint, it's just my usual reaction. I know its mostly to save time in the long run... I can't imagine how much time woudl be taken up by keeping Lachesis and her 3 guards alive the entire map...

I can't help but feel that in some cases, the lack of able-fighting units is detrimental overall to the gameplay. Laying Seige to Anthony in Ch. 2, I couldn't help but feel that you needed a few more units. From what I can tell, the lack of reliable fighting units leads a little to what I've dubbed, "DESTROY EVERYTHING" syndrome. I wonder if Finn is a good investment, because of his transfer into the 2nd generation. I do understand that this would be lessened because of Celice-tachi's godliness, but it still is a consideration of mine... espically because Lex is levelling up a ton, and he doesn't fall in love with any characters... seems like a waste of Elite to me, but... *shrugs*

Edit 2:
Through chapter 4. Chapter 3 was... Well, I think a number of the pirates could have been killed far earlier... and I didn't see the point in moving out a few people, aside from those you wanted to fall in love. (Fury, Claude, Azel, Eddin). Levin... I kept thinking that he needed another weapon. I guess not, and that just lucked out at the end. ONE USE LEFT. XD Also, Sylvia Prayer FTW! I can't help but think that Sigurd should have gotten the Power Ring in the end because of Cuan's... absence. Plus, Althena takes a while to obtain anyway in chapter 9.

Chapter 4, I was wondering what the hell you were doing at the beginning... and then the Rescue glitch. Holy freaking GOD... that is the most BROKEN thing I've EVER seen in a Fire Emblem game. Holy CRAP... Sigurd raping EVERYTHING. I do think that Tiltyu could have rescued a few more of the citizens... and I burst out laughing when the general/guards spawned at an allied Silesia. That was just... insane. That's all I can say for now.

Nitrodon

2008-02-11 03:45:35 am

Quote:

- Speaking of gate entrance...I didn't know you could stand on corners of castles and attack the guard with 1-range that way? Was that part of the Rescue glitch? I'm curious why you did it either way.

The Rescue glitch allows the home castle guard to roam around the map while still guarding the castle (and part of the effect seems to be the obvious movement-related thing). One side effect is that the Charge command makes you attack from one space down instead of one space up, and can be used from any castle tile. It's actually impossible to use the Charge command from the castle gate under the rescue glitch.

Meekah

2008-02-11 01:45:30 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Eh, a few things:
I'm kind of unsure whether to get Silver Sword or not. Silver Sword is stronger than Steel, but gets the Crit bonus later, and takes a little time to get from Alvis.

Does this game use the same RNs every time you restart it or something? It seems I get the same results no matter what.

Meekah

2008-03-06 07:44:50 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

An update for those interested (pretty sure I can count them on one hand excluding Molotov, who gets everything first hand anyway if he wants to):

I restarted my testrun (I was at Ch4 originally, but felt now it could have been much better). I'm using savestates, notepad and .smv files to find out optimal routes, practicing a bit with quick switching between units and castles (I'll need it), not really recording a time as much as laying out and recording a path. This is important to do accurately because the RNG is set in stone and one difference in an earlier chapter means everything not RNG-proof in following chapters might no longer happen.

For Prologue, I just stole Molotov's way of doing it because the level-ups Sigurd got were amazing overall and it seems like the fastest way overall to me.

In Ch1, I pretty much ditch the Cuan use and take my own path. I do the Aideen/Dew pairing to pass on the staves I need but also reduce the money she needs to Warp me around. Sigurd just does all the work, kills Ayra and Jamka as well as the bosses. Deirdre Silences Sanimda for me though. The Javelin has been a great help here to take out Mountain thieves as well as these Hunters near Verdane.

Ch2 I am working on right now, but up to McKeily I've found my route. My Sigurd had 25 (capped) Str at the start of the chapter (L18 or so), so he could one-round even the Heirhein field infantery with Javelin and Silver Sword. I ignore Nodion (kills NPC fase, and Lachesis is worthless either way), don't bother with Elliot (Cuan is the only one who can use Silver Lance and I don't need it), I just blast a hole into Phillip's troops with a Javelin and counter whoever dares with Silver Sword. I got a nice series against Boldo, who could get killed with 2 Steel Lance jabs after one poke with the Javelin, even after the throne heal. Levin got two Continues and a Critical against the bandits so they were toast, the Bargain Ring one took a little longer but that's okay.

With some (if I may say so myself) smart maneuvering with Sigurd and a Warped Ethlin I manage to kill off the majority of the Amphony Armory with the Steel Lance, then the Silver Sword kills every single Free Knight that attacks me. It gets its 50+ kills crit triggered now, and it works exactly when I wanted it: against Voltz. I missed Beowulf once but it all worked out in the end. I needed Ethlin to get a Sibling Critical on McBeth and Return Sigurd home, but she'd die by the Armors - fixed by using the Light Sword (which I'd have gotten anyway) instead of Slim Sword to change RNs. I only needed Midir to clear the Stage 1 arena to get the right series for a crit on McBeth.

In the meantime I built up Dew/Aideen, Warped Ardan to Heirhein to get him the Pursuit Ring and let Levin walk to the Bargain Ring village while Sylvia assisted him then walked back to stand in Clement's Sleep range. I put Azel in the mountains north of Evans for two reasons: it changes the AI of the Augustia cavalry so they get in the way less, and it holds up the Fury squad and weakens some of them. Sylvia is put to sleep, and this triggers the McKeily fighters to start rushing. I let Sigurd circle Nodion to avoid combat, and kill off the slower Firemages with Javelin in a forest so I can advance. Sigurd arrives exactly at the McKeily gate so Clement prioritizes on Thundering him up close as opposed to putting Sylvia to sleep again, and Sigurd manages to kill and seize with no trouble.

I'm now working on the last quarter. Zyne's army is easy to lure away from Sigurd, but their walking takes pretty long anyway so I might go out there and fight them.

The Fury squad kills Azel (I've got nothing against him but no one other than Deirdre and Cuan could be sent up there) but meets a bitter end. Dew manages to snag 5000G from one of the troops, and Lex, Cuan, Fin and Midir kill them off. I'm not recruiting Fury because I don't need her utility in Gen 1, because I would have to get Levin back there and because Levin needs to fall in love with Tiltyu.

An update for those interested (pretty sure I can count them on one hand excluding Molotov, who gets everything first hand anyway if he wants to):

I restarted my testrun (I was at Ch4 originally, but felt now it could have been much better). I'm using savestates, notepad and .smv files to find out optimal routes, practicing a bit with quick switching between units and castles (I'll need it), not really recording a time as much as laying out and recording a path. This is important to do accurately because the RNG is set in stone and one difference in an earlier chapter means everything not RNG-proof in following chapters might no longer happen.

For Prologue, I just stole Molotov's way of doing it because the level-ups Sigurd got were amazing overall and it seems like the fastest way overall to me.

In Ch1, I pretty much ditch the Cuan use and take my own path. I do the Aideen/Dew pairing to pass on the staves I need but also reduce the money she needs to Warp me around. Sigurd just does all the work, kills Ayra and Jamka as well as the bosses. Deirdre Silences Sanimda for me though. The Javelin has been a great help here to take out Mountain thieves as well as these Hunters near Verdane.

Ch2 I am working on right now, but up to McKeily I've found my route. My Sigurd had 25 (capped) Str at the start of the chapter (L18 or so), so he could one-round even the Heirhein field infantery with Javelin and Silver Sword. I ignore Nodion (kills NPC fase, and Lachesis is worthless either way), don't bother with Elliot (Cuan is the only one who can use Silver Lance and I don't need it), I just blast a hole into Phillip's troops with a Javelin and counter whoever dares with Silver Sword. I got a nice series against Boldo, who could get killed with 2 Steel Lance jabs after one poke with the Javelin, even after the throne heal. Levin got two Continues and a Critical against the bandits so they were toast, the Bargain Ring one took a little longer but that's okay.

With some (if I may say so myself) smart maneuvering with Sigurd and a Warped Ethlin I manage to kill off the majority of the Amphony Armory with the Steel Lance, then the Silver Sword kills every single Free Knight that attacks me. It gets its 50+ kills crit triggered now, and it works exactly when I wanted it: against Voltz. I missed Beowulf once but it all worked out in the end. I needed Ethlin to get a Sibling Critical on McBeth and Return Sigurd home, but she'd die by the Armors - fixed by using the Light Sword (which I'd have gotten anyway) instead of Slim Sword to change RNs. I only needed Midir to clear the Stage 1 arena to get the right series for a crit on McBeth.

In the meantime I built up Dew/Aideen, Warped Ardan to Heirhein to get him the Pursuit Ring and let Levin walk to the Bargain Ring village while Sylvia assisted him then walked back to stand in Clement's Sleep range. I put Azel in the mountains north of Evans for two reasons: it changes the AI of the Augustia cavalry so they get in the way less, and it holds up the Fury squad and weakens some of them. Sylvia is put to sleep, and this triggers the McKeily fighters to start rushing. I let Sigurd circle Nodion to avoid combat, and kill off the slower Firemages with Javelin in a forest so I can advance. Sigurd arrives exactly at the McKeily gate so Clement prioritizes on Thundering him up close as opposed to putting Sylvia to sleep again, and Sigurd manages to kill and seize with no trouble.

I'm now working on the last quarter. Zyne's army is easy to lure away from Sigurd, but their walking takes pretty long anyway so I might go out there and fight them.

The Fury squad kills Azel (I've got nothing against him but no one other than Deirdre and Cuan could be sent up there) but meets a bitter end. Dew manages to snag 5000G from one of the troops, and Lex, Cuan, Fin and Midir kill them off. I'm not recruiting Fury because I don't need her utility in Gen 1, because I would have to get Levin back there and because Levin needs to fall in love with Tiltyu.

yoshmaster5

2008-03-06 08:17:35 pm

Also tenkiforecast

The only problem that I feel is that you let Azel be killed. Maybe it's just me. I just feel that letting some character die without any necessary reason seems to be useless.

I'm under the impression you're not going to use the Rescue Glitch, because you're having Dew hook up with Edien.

As for letting Fury die... Because you're not going to be using the Rescue glitch, I can understand what the plan is. Femina is good, and all the replacement Magic users are very good anyways. ^_^

Meekah

Edit history:

Meekah: 2008-03-09 05:39:58 pm

2008-03-07 06:29:19 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

It was necessary to put someone there as to manipulate the Augustia cavalry, and unless I would do it with Sigurd that person was very likely to die. Azel only has 5 move so he never would have been any use for me. I didn't have Jamka, Holyn or Ayra, so the only other people who could climb there were Cuan, Azel and Sigurd. Sigurd is busy, I needed Cuan alive mostly because I need Ethlin's Return for one more chapter, so it was Azel.

Femina is rather crappy actually, but I won't be needing her or Fee for anything except killing Mountain Thieves.

EDIT: Finished a really sloppy .smv of Ch2, but at least I know the exact route I'll be taking in the real run.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I48K3K0M
It's for SNES9x 1.51 (pretty old) but if anyone would watch it and give feedback on the route I took that'd be great.

Meekah

2008-04-05 09:31:08 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Sorry for the double post, but I'd just like to note that I finished the exploration run. The hardest parts of the game to run through have been SMV'd so I can go work on doing my route as fast as I can. I will probably do a lot of refining when it comes to the second generation, it takes a lot less RNG happiness except for the last part.

If anyone is interested in discussing or watching, (seems not to be the case, but you never know) feel free to contact me or post here.

Molotov

2008-04-05 09:51:31 pm

Quote:

Sorry for the double post, but I'd just like to note that I finished the exploration run.

Good to hear. That Chapter 2 .smv was pretty nice even without cursor optimizations (if you ask me), so this should be quite good. Nitrodon told me you turned off the music (I didn't turn on my speakers, so I had no idea) though, which is just absurd. Sad

One other note though: why didn't you press A to skip through the "<Player/country> Phase" bars? Should speed things up a bit.

Quote:

If anyone is interested in discussing or watching, (seems not to be the case, but you never know) feel free to contact me or post here.

I may not say much here, but I'm always interested in watching a Fire Emblem run (especially Seisen). Planning sometimes gets tedious though, so I can't say I'm always interested in that part. Tongue

petrie911

2008-04-05 11:45:48 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I'm like Molotov on the issue. If you're willing to run it, I'm willing to watch it. I don't mind if it's 5 hours long or something. After all, I watched the SMS 100% run.

Just to be sure, though, this would be on console and not emulator, right?

yoshmaster5

2008-04-06 12:52:03 am

Also tenkiforecast

Awesome.

I'm looking forward to seeing it. even if it's really long, etc... it's still a FE run, and those are always good. Even if some things I won't exactly agree with, it's still great to see different perspectives in approach. *nodnod*

BTW, I've watched a number of really long runs, and I actually enjoy watching some of the longer ones more. *hides*

getter77

2008-04-06 05:24:00 am

100% runs=great to watch

Long runs are AWESOME when they work out excellently. Best of luck! 8)

Meekah

2008-04-06 11:24:00 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

whoa replies

Quote:

Good to hear. That Chapter 2 .smv was pretty nice even without cursor optimizations (if you ask me), so this should be quite good. Nitrodon told me you turned off the music (I didn't turn on my speakers, so I had no idea) though, which is just absurd. Sad

One other note though: why didn't you press A to skip through the "<Player/country> Phase" bars? Should speed things up a bit.

I hammered start, not A. Doh. I knew there was something that did that. And yes, I turned off the music at some point because I had heard it a million times and grew sick of it. I believe I turned it off in Ch4 and back on in Ch6 or something.

Quote:

I may not say much here, but I'm always interested in watching a Fire Emblem run (especially Seisen). Planning sometimes gets tedious though, so I can't say I'm always interested in that part.

I actually liked the planning better than the idea of optimizing the run throughout the whole game, lol.

Quote:

I'm like Molotov on the issue. If you're willing to run it, I'm willing to watch it. I don't mind if it's 5 hours long or something. After all, I watched the SMS 100% run.

Just to be sure, though, this would be on console and not emulator, right?

Heh, playtime of this run was 16 hours, although I didn't even try to pretend it was a speedrun at some points. Molotov estimated that without the Rescue glitch it would be over 10 hours, which could be very very true.

And no, I'm sorry, but this will be on an emulator. I would use the cart, but I don't have it, nor do I have a SNES. However, to keep the real "feeling", it stays in Japanese.

Anyway, thanks for all the supports and sudden replies and stuff. Here's a nice teaser of the ending. Again, requires SNES9x 1.51 and probably an unpatched game.

http://www.mediafire.com/?mmanyhcx3tm

(it's in a .rar)

whoa replies

[quote] Good to hear. That Chapter 2 .smv was pretty nice even without cursor optimizations (if you ask me), so this should be quite good. Nitrodon told me you turned off the music (I didn't turn on my speakers, so I had no idea) though, which is just absurd. Sad
 
One other note though: why didn't you press A to skip through the "<Player/country> Phase" bars? Should speed things up a bit.[/quote]

I hammered start, not A. Doh. I knew there was something that did that. And yes, I turned off the music at some point because I had heard it a million times and grew sick of it. I believe I turned it off in Ch4 and back on in Ch6 or something.

[quote] I may not say much here, but I'm always interested in watching a Fire Emblem run (especially Seisen). Planning sometimes gets tedious though, so I can't say I'm always interested in that part.[/quote]

I actually liked the planning better than the idea of optimizing the run throughout the whole game, lol.

[quote] I'm like Molotov on the issue.  If you're willing to run it, I'm willing to watch it.  I don't mind if it's 5 hours long or something.  After all, I watched the SMS 100% run.
 
Just to be sure, though, this would be on console and not emulator, right?[/quote]

Heh, playtime of this run was 16 hours, although I didn't even try to pretend it was a speedrun at some points. Molotov estimated that without the Rescue glitch it would be over 10 hours, which could be very very true.

And no, I'm sorry, but this will be on an emulator. I would use the cart, but I don't have it, nor do I have a SNES. However, to keep the real "feeling", it stays in Japanese.

Anyway, thanks for all the supports and sudden replies and stuff. Here's a nice teaser of the ending. Again, requires SNES9x 1.51 and probably an unpatched game.

http://www.mediafire.com/?mmanyhcx3tm

(it's in a .rar)

Tubba_Blubba

2008-04-13 01:49:16 am

SHAININGU FINGAAAAAAAAA A! !

Hehe, pretty cool to do a run of FE:SnK... One of my personal favourite games.

I haven't read all of the later posts, but using a Berserk sword to kill Julius would indeed be your best bet.

By the way, if you hope to get it posted on SDA, it must be on the real console, but I'm sure you're aware.

Either case, have fun.

Maxml

2008-04-15 06:55:42 pm

Quote:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I48K3K0M
It's for SNES9x 1.51 (pretty old) but if anyone would watch it and give feedback on the route I took that'd be great.

Too bad I can't get it to work on my Mac (I have neither the good SNES emulator version neither the rom) :/
I want to see your run too !! I hope you will put some vids on Youtube later.

Meekah

Edit history:

Meekah: 2008-04-17 01:44:13 pm

2008-04-17 01:43:07 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Obviously I can't link to the ROM, you'll have to find it yourself, though my ROMinfo says that it's 1.0...

For the emulator, isn't this http://snes9x.ipherswipsite.com/ what you are looking for?