Final Fight Speedrun

2008-11-26 09:01:28 am

Yes

Is it possible? I've been playing it a lot. A deathless run, if it is possible seems like it would be slower than one that wasn't. I haven't found any TAS playthroughs, but I did find this boss video:

That punching trick with Cody from the arcade does work in the SNES. It's hard to do. The thing about Final Fight is that it is extremely random, from the way that the enemies move to how long you can hold enemies after you grab them. But can you imagine how much pummeling you would have?

Thread title:

mikwuyma

2008-11-26 12:42:32 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from Mr. K:

Is it possible?

I don't see why not, though I'd prefer a run on the PS2/Xbox Capcom Classics Collection Volume 1.

Quote:

A deathless run, if it is possible

It is. There are MARP score replays that are deathless IIRC.

Quote:

seems like it would be slower than one that wasn't.

No. What you're probably thinking is that a deathless run would be very conservative (read: lack of planning), and a run with deaths would be going in fists flailing (again, lack of planning). Being conservative means you don't have enough knowledge in the game to be confidently aggressive, and going in fists flailing while dying means you don't have enough knowledge in the game to predict enemy patterns

A good beat 'em up speedrunner will memorize the enemy positions and the boss patterns so he can hard and strike often. He will also group enemies so that he doesn't get surrounded and he can hit multiple enemies at once. Is it easy? No, but it's definitely possible.

Quote:

I haven't found any TAS playthroughs

That's because most people on TASvideos would say a run of this game would be too boring.

[quote="Mr. K"]
Is it possible?
[/quote]

I don't see why not, though I'd prefer a run on the PS2/Xbox Capcom Classics Collection Volume 1.

[quote]A deathless run, if it is possible[/quote]

It is. There are MARP score replays that are deathless IIRC.

[quote]seems like it would be slower than one that wasn't. [/quote]

No. What you're probably thinking is that a deathless run would be very conservative (read: lack of planning), and a run with deaths would be going in fists flailing (again, lack of planning). Being conservative means you don't have enough knowledge in the game to be confidently aggressive, and going in fists flailing while dying means you don't have enough knowledge in the game to predict enemy patterns

A good beat 'em up speedrunner will memorize the enemy positions and the boss patterns so he can hard and strike often. He will also group enemies so that he doesn't get surrounded and he can hit multiple enemies at once. Is it easy? No, but it's definitely possible.

[quote]I haven't found any TAS playthroughs[/quote]

That's because most people on TASvideos would say a run of this game would be too boring.

Emptyeye

2008-11-26 04:01:04 pm

Talk to the Hand

I didn't think the punching trick was that hard to do on the SNES version.

Anyway, I've actually tried to get into a groove to do the Capcom Classics version. Currently, my plan is to take what I've learned (Suffice to say that my current skill at the game isn't nearly what it should be for a speedrun) and apply it to FF2 and/or 3 on the SNES, which I would think would be much easier than the arcade version of the original.

Anyway, if you can pull it off, that'd be great too.

LordLocke

2008-11-30 02:02:13 am

Yes, it's a ninja riding an invisible jet

A deaths allowed run can be faster for Beat-em-ups because in some, waiting for 'safe moments' is more time consuming then the price of death- I know there's a run of a TMNT run out there that dies at Krang because going slap-happy in his face and losing a life is way, way faster then trying to safely jump-kick him to death after attacks.

That said, I can't think of a lot of places in Final Fight where that'd work. Certainly not in the normal levels (grouping enemies and smacking them as a pack is both safe and fast) and the only boss I can think of where a reckless assault might be faster is Sodom/Katana (Because the safe methods of Cody jabjabturnjab or the standard way of trying to draw him into charging from the edge of his range then counter-throwing him are both pretty slow). Maybe shave a couple of seconds off Belger, too.

That said, I gotta wonder who the best character would be for this. Cody's got jabjabturnjab which turns most bosses into trivial exercises of execution and patience, but it makes the Katana/Sodom fight take forever, but I can't help but think between his longer reach and higher damage, Haggar might get through the actual stages quicker (and possibly do some of the bosses faster- besides Abagail, I can't think of any boss that'd be definitely outsped by Cody through jabjabturnjab. It'd be a lot harder, though)

A deaths allowed run can be faster for Beat-em-ups because in some, waiting for 'safe moments' is more time consuming then the price of death- I know there's a run of a TMNT run out there that dies at Krang because going slap-happy in his face and losing a life is way, way faster then trying to safely jump-kick him to death after attacks.

That said, I can't think of a lot of places in Final Fight where that'd work.  Certainly not in the normal levels (grouping enemies and smacking them as a pack is both safe and fast) and the only boss I can think of where a reckless assault might be faster is Sodom/Katana (Because the safe methods of Cody jabjabturnjab or the standard way of trying to draw him into charging from the edge of his range then counter-throwing him are both pretty slow).  Maybe shave a couple of seconds off Belger, too.

That said, I gotta wonder who the best character would be for this.  Cody's got jabjabturnjab which turns most bosses into trivial exercises of execution and patience, but it makes the Katana/Sodom fight take forever, but I can't help but think between his longer reach and higher damage, Haggar might get through the actual stages quicker (and possibly do some of the bosses faster- besides Abagail, I can't think of any boss that'd be definitely outsped by Cody through jabjabturnjab.  It'd be a lot harder, though)

Nightmare

2010-01-05 06:48:57 pm

Repeating this from the other thread, but this is at least from my experiences on the SNES version:

About Final Fight (SNES)

I was doing some point runs of this recently and actually turning in some decent times (about 53-something) and I think sub-50 is possible. But I really don't think it's a really good game to request a speed run for. The scrolling stops in lots of places preventing speed, and Ultimate Andore (U. Andore) will piledrive you even if you try to jump kick risk him. The game is clearly a stall-based game and it wouldn't be great.

If someone wants it I'll attempt to submit a sub-50 minute run with deaths, but this one is quite frankly not getting verified because it's not risky enough.

And on a note, I think deaths are pretty mandatory on Katana and Abagail on the SNES, they have invincibility frames that are not in the arcade and especially in Abagail's case, a lot of times unavoidable. Usually 2 deaths on Katana and another 3 on Abagail, the rest come from cheap stuff on 4 and 5 mostly, but not horribly terrible.

Repeating this from the other thread, but this is at least from my experiences on the SNES version:

About Final Fight (SNES)

I was doing some point runs of this recently and actually turning in some decent times (about 53-something) and I think sub-50 is possible.  But I really don't think it's a really good game to request a speed run for.  The scrolling stops in lots of places preventing speed, and Ultimate Andore (U. Andore) will piledrive you even if you try to jump kick risk him.  The game is clearly a stall-based game and it wouldn't be great.

If someone wants it I'll attempt to submit a sub-50 minute run with deaths, but this one is quite frankly not getting verified because it's not risky enough.

And on a note, I think deaths are pretty mandatory on Katana and Abagail on the SNES, they have invincibility frames that are not in the arcade and especially in Abagail's case, a lot of times unavoidable.  Usually 2 deaths on Katana and another 3 on Abagail, the rest come from cheap stuff on 4 and 5 mostly, but not horribly terrible.

Emptyeye

2010-01-05 07:55:43 pm

Talk to the Hand

Yeah, I noted that the SNES version added a bunch of cheapness to make up for the fact that there can only be 3 enemies on the screen at one time. The best example to me is actually that Andore Cage Fight, where one or both of them will randomly get move priority over you on anything including your special attack. So freaking cheap.

Nightmare

2010-01-05 08:48:35 pm

Quote from Emptyeye:

Yeah, I noted that the SNES version added a bunch of cheapness to make up for the fact that there can only be 3 enemies on the screen at one time. The best example to me is actually that Andore Cage Fight, where one or both of them will randomly get move priority over you on anything including your special attack. So freaking cheap.

Yeah, I literally have to pure stall that out with no weapons to do that deathless.

I'll be posting my score run after it's verified on TG, but still, the SNES seems to be a game of stall. I'll probably attempt it for speed (certainly something DIFFERENT on this board), but I have a good feeling it'd be rejected any way I did it.

-James

Nightmare

Edit history:

Nightmare: 2010-05-06 08:49:36 pm

2010-05-06 08:43:38 pm

Resuscitating this thread

SNES 8/4 (max difficulty) default lives planning, estimated start time: After the SS XD attempt, TMNT 4 Points for TG, and the Pokemon tournament, so essentially, 6/13/10 whereabouts.

Let's talk potential ideas!

-James

DK28

2010-05-07 05:17:14 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from Emptyeye:

The best example to me is actually that Andore Cage Fight, where one or both of them will randomly get move priority over you on anything including your special attack. So freaking cheap.

Definitely this. The SNES is probably the cheapest version. Do you have the CCC to run?

Nightmare

2010-05-07 08:02:19 pm

The most jagged notes I have about the SNES versions:

1. The Andore Cage fight is going to be ugly stall, no two words about that
2. Sodom (Katana) to infinite takes longer than my method AFAIK, though it's not nearly as safe. Might need to die once or twice there just to do that faster.
3. My bane, Abagail. He's hard as hell to lock in to anything at first and might take an ID or two just to get close to him.

Also, IDK if the jump/infinite is the best route to go on 8/4. The enemies get really aggressive, long life meters, and are generally harder to group.

Big note: The 8/4 Difficulty requires the Options Code to work. This is banned on TG because of the use of this code and I did my points run on 4/2 (which is default normal)

Big note 2: Final Fight Guy I don't have and from what I've played on emulator is totally different.

-James

Emptyeye

2010-05-07 08:37:52 pm

Talk to the Hand

I admittedly don't have a lot of experience with 8/4, but my very limited recall says that, as much as I personally love MIKE HAGGAR and detest Cody "Mr. Popular" Travers, the latter is probably the character of choice for a speedrun. Simply because I don't think the SNES's options screen has a rapid-fire option. In layman's terms, that means if you want to infinite (And I imagine you mostly do, though you seem to think differently), you have to actually do the work on it yourself, which is much easier with Cody than HAGGAR.

And gah, that cage fight. In the arcade version, it's challenging but fair, at least as far as quarter-munchers go. In the SNES version, even on 4/2, it's just irritatingly cheap.

Other than that, I don't have a lot of advice to offer. I thought about doing the CCC version, but as much as I hate to admit it, I'm just not good enough at the game to attempt it right now.

Nightmare

Edit history:

Nightmare: 2010-05-07 09:35:52 pm

2010-05-07 09:08:33 pm

Quote from Emptyeye:

I admittedly don't have a lot of experience with 8/4, but my very limited recall says that, as much as I personally love MIKE HAGGAR and detest Cody "Mr. Popular" Travers, the latter is probably the character of choice for a speedrun. Simply because I don't think the SNES's options screen has a rapid-fire option. In layman's terms, that means if you want to infinite (And I imagine you mostly do, though you seem to think differently), you have to actually do the work on it yourself, which is much easier with Cody than HAGGAR.

And gah, that cage fight. In the arcade version, it's challenging but fair, at least as far as quarter-munchers go. In the SNES version, even on 4/2, it's just irritatingly cheap.

Other than that, I don't have a lot of advice to offer. I thought about doing the CCC version, but as much as I hate to admit it, I'm just not good enough at the game to attempt it right now.

It's pretty cheap on 4/2 too because of the priority boxes on Great Andore and especially Ultimate Andore. But stalling seems to beat them in both levels of difficulty.

I should try it on 1/1 (very easy) for kicks.

EDIT:

A Stage 1 Practice on 8/4 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6760057 (I'll make a YouTube quality one soon)

The notes to mention:

1. The enemies' lifebars are far bigger
2. More damage on the spin kick
3. Enemy AI is far more aggressive and the enemies do more damage
4. Infiniting on the SNES or VC versions is a bit harder, I'm using the VC for having a decent controller.
5. They just seem to have a way to break infinite chains in this if you don't group one together, can't explain it, have to watch for yourself.

-James

[quote="Emptyeye"]
I admittedly don't have a lot of experience with 8/4, but my very limited recall says that, as much as I personally love MIKE HAGGAR and detest Cody "Mr. Popular" Travers, the latter is probably the character of choice for a speedrun. Simply because I don't think the SNES's options screen has a rapid-fire option. In layman's terms, that means if you want to infinite (And I imagine you mostly do, though you seem to think differently), you have to actually do the work on it yourself, which is much easier with Cody than HAGGAR.

And gah, that cage fight. In the arcade version, it's challenging but fair, at least as far as quarter-munchers go. In the SNES version, even on 4/2, it's just irritatingly cheap.

Other than that, I don't have a lot of advice to offer. I thought about doing the CCC version, but as much as I hate to admit it, I'm just not good enough at the game to attempt it right now.
[/quote]

It's pretty cheap on 4/2 too because of the priority boxes on Great Andore and especially Ultimate Andore.  But stalling seems to beat them in both levels of difficulty.

I should try it on 1/1 (very easy) for kicks.

EDIT:

A Stage 1 Practice on 8/4  http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6760057  (I'll make a YouTube quality one soon)

The notes to mention:

1.  The enemies' lifebars are far bigger
2.  More damage on the spin kick
3.  Enemy AI is far more aggressive and the enemies do more damage
4.  Infiniting on the SNES or VC versions is a bit harder, I'm using the VC for having a decent controller.
5.  They just seem to have a way to break infinite chains in this if you don't group one together, can't explain it, have to watch for yourself.

-James

Emptyeye

2010-05-07 09:58:09 pm

Talk to the Hand

I liked how at one point Thrasher/Damnd was just like "Infinite? Nope." *Kills your entire lifebar* That amused me from a spectator standpoint.

Anyway, I surprised myself by managing to get to Abigail on one credit (SNES default settings) as MIKE HAGGAR. Not particularly quickly, mind you, but I did do it. It was quite fun, actually.

Nightmare

2010-05-07 10:15:33 pm

Yep, that's 8/4 for you, that Damno thing.

Haggar runs are painfully slow. I think the guy who did the points run on MAME was well into the 2 hour range just to be fair.

I'd love to see a Haggar speed run beat a Cody speed run though; however, probably not going to happen. Maybe for a separate cat.

-James

Nightmare

2010-06-23 10:16:07 pm

Well, I think we can officially strike dead any chance of a SNES version speed run of this making SDA.......

42:00 midway through Lv. 5 on pace for high 40's or low 50's with death abuse and not a terrible lot of time to cut, and definitely not the prettiest run and more in line with my points run for the game even with the infinite/jumping back techniques.

Not only that, Andores especially late game love to break your infinite on the slightest mishap.

CCC Normal Mode looks like the best way to go with this.

-James

Humorisk

2010-06-29 08:13:16 pm

I have been playing this series lately and, gosh, this guy does not want to be ran at all.

Does anyone try things besides Cody's infinite combo? Not only is that hard to pull off 100% of the time, it's pretty dang slow. I would think moving over to higher damage moves is advantageous at least part of the time. I have found a lot of success using knives with Cody for example.

Something else is that enemies don't attack much when thrown off screen. They will pretty much just stand there and let you hit them. Group them over there, and they will die quickly. But you will miss frequently doing that, so it looks bad for a speedrun.

Perhaps I'm just grasping at straws. For anyone planning this, you might want to try 2 or 3 first. They are slow as molasses and even more boring, but much less cheap.

Emptyeye

2010-06-29 08:32:37 pm

Talk to the Hand

Running 2 and/or 3 was actually a potential plan, but the issue is actually finding a copy of either for me.

Hmm, I'll be at Connecticon in a week and a half or so...hopefully there will be a video game vendor there and I can get lucky.

Also, I play with MIKE HAGGAR, although I'm not sure he's actually the fastest for a speedrun. If you don't care about it being slightly cheesy, the CCC version of Final Fight has a rapid-fire option built into the game, which would make infinites with the much more powerful MIKE HAGGAR a lot easier. Mike would have to clarify, but I'm pretty sure that would be SDA-legal since the option is within the game itself.

Since I'd like to run the CCC version for next year's marathon, I'll have to do more research into how to group/manipulate foes than I have been whenever I've played the game to this point.

Nightmare

2010-06-29 08:47:20 pm

Quote from Emptyeye:

Running 2 and/or 3 was actually a potential plan, but the issue is actually finding a copy of either for me.

Hmm, I'll be at Connecticon in a week and a half or so...hopefully there will be a video game vendor there and I can get lucky.

Also, I play with MIKE HAGGAR, although I'm not sure he's actually the fastest for a speedrun. If you don't care about it being slightly cheesy, the CCC version of Final Fight has a rapid-fire option built into the game, which would make infinites with the much more powerful MIKE HAGGAR a lot easier. Mike would have to clarify, but I'm pretty sure that would be SDA-legal since the option is within the game itself.

Since I'd like to run the CCC version for next year's marathon, I'll have to do more research into how to group/manipulate foes than I have been whenever I've played the game to this point.

Unless you find a major glitch in 2 and 3, read my notes on the SNES I posted before Emptyeye. They're virtually clones of each other with different characters.

Stick with the CCC. That's my plan.

-James

[quote="Emptyeye"]
Running 2 and/or 3 was actually a potential plan, but the issue is actually finding a copy of either for me.

Hmm, I'll be at Connecticon in a week and a half or so...hopefully there will be a video game vendor there and I can get lucky.

Also, I play with MIKE HAGGAR, although I'm not sure he's actually the fastest for a speedrun. If you don't care about it being slightly cheesy, the CCC version of Final Fight has a rapid-fire option built into the game, which would make infinites with the much more powerful MIKE HAGGAR a lot easier. Mike would have to clarify, but I'm pretty sure that would be SDA-legal since the option is within the game itself.

Since I'd like to run the CCC version for next year's marathon, I'll have to do more research into how to group/manipulate foes than I have been whenever I've played the game to this point.
[/quote]

Unless you find a major glitch in 2 and 3, read my notes on the SNES I posted before Emptyeye.  They're virtually clones of each other with different characters.

Stick with the CCC.  That's my plan.

-James

DK28

2010-06-29 10:24:49 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from Emptyeye:

Also, I play with MIKE HAGGAR, although I'm not sure he's actually the fastest for a speedrun. If you don't care about it being slightly cheesy, the CCC version of Final Fight has a rapid-fire option built into the game, which would make infinites with the much more powerful MIKE HAGGAR a lot easier. Mike would have to clarify, but I'm pretty sure that would be SDA-legal since the option is within the game itself.

Turbo would be allowed since, like you said, it's an in-game option, not a code. And we all know MIKE HAGGAR is the man, so a run with him would be awesome. Even if he's slower than ~~Cody~~ Goody-Good, I'm pretty sure he could be a different category, given the vast character differences.

thri11ki11

2011-01-27 02:48:56 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

Been playing the SNES version (on Wii VC) lately, trying to get good enough to record a run. I did start recording this afternoon, and managed

35:52.22 with Haggar on 8/4 difficulty and tons of deaths.

It was pretty close to a perfect run until I got to Edi.E and choked (of course, that doesn't say much because the bulk of the run is the last two levels).

I know there's a ton to do to make this submittable; I don't use the backwards jump during scrolling, and I die SO many times. Here's a breakdown by level; the times are actual times of control, not counting intros and exits.

Round 1: Slum - (02:34.04) - I kill Thrasher (DAMND) in two rounds instead of the usual three.

Round 2: Subway/Park (04:22.29) - I kill Katana (SODOM) and only die once in the process.

Bonus Round: Car (00:15.04) - I messed up on this a little...

Round 3: West Side (04:29.09) - I took a pounding at the beginning and had ZERO energy at the Andore cage fight, but managed to get through unscathed and get the food. I got to Edi.E at 3:39, and he proceeded to billy club me to death... twice... and then knock me into the scroll so that his cronies could interfere. I was horrified. But I kept going with the run anyway after losing 2 lives. If I hadn't died, the round probably would have been around 4:00 or so.

Round 4: Bay Area (09:39.22) - All bets were off here as I was frustrated and discouraged by my Round 3 shenanigans. I die once in the Wong Who/G Oriber/Bill Bull area, TWICE in the part after the music changes for the first time (in the area with the Slashes, Two Ps and Js), once to a Holly Wood firebomb, and once during the Holly Wood/El Gado area. Then something clicked again and the run changed... somehow I managed to defeat Abagail only dying ONCE. Unreal. If I could only replace that stage and keep the boss fight...

Bonus Round: Glass (00:19.26) - Is it faster to break the glass with 2 seconds left and have to wait while the bonus racks up, or is it faster to just wait for the time to run out? I broke the glass.

Round 5: (12:47.15) - I die once in the pool area during the Two P/J area (after the part with the Andores and Two P/Js). I also die once right in the middle of the ballroom area (between the Drumcan roll areas where you fight two Andores, Holly Wood and some Js), once right afterward in the area with all the different enemies, and once right before the door to the final area (leaving me with 0 lives when I go in). Then I do really well again and don't die until Belger shoots me (one death) right before I knock him out the window.

It's obvious that the run is miserable with all the deaths. I'm really not a finesse player with this yet, I just use the strategies I know and smash my way through most of the time, hoping for decent luck. I just looked over the thread and saw the times that were being posted, albeit they were about a year ago, and said "hey, mine is pretty fast comparably." I'll keep trying at it and see if I can make it cleaner.

Been playing the SNES version (on Wii VC) lately, trying to get good enough to record a run. I did start recording this afternoon, and managed

35:52.22 with Haggar on 8/4 difficulty and tons of deaths.

It was pretty close to a perfect run until I got to Edi.E and choked (of course, that doesn't say much because the bulk of the run is the last two levels).

I know there's a ton to do to make this submittable; I don't use the backwards jump during scrolling, and I die SO many times. Here's a breakdown by level; the times are actual times of control, not counting intros and exits.

Round 1: Slum - (02:34.04) - I kill Thrasher (DAMND) in two rounds instead of the usual three.

Round 2: Subway/Park (04:22.29) - I kill Katana (SODOM) and only die once in the process.

Bonus Round: Car (00:15.04) - I messed up on this a little...

Round 3: West Side (04:29.09) - I took a pounding at the beginning and had ZERO energy at the Andore cage fight, but managed to get through unscathed and get the food. I got to Edi.E at 3:39, and he proceeded to billy club me to death... twice... and then knock me into the scroll so that his cronies could interfere. I was horrified. But I kept going with the run anyway after losing 2 lives. If I hadn't died, the round probably would have been around 4:00 or so.

Round 4: Bay Area (09:39.22) - All bets were off here as I was frustrated and discouraged by my Round 3 shenanigans. I die once in the Wong Who/G Oriber/Bill Bull area, TWICE in the part after the music changes for the first time (in the area with the Slashes, Two Ps and Js), once to a Holly Wood firebomb, and once during the Holly Wood/El Gado area. Then something clicked again and the run changed... somehow I managed to defeat Abagail only dying ONCE. Unreal. If I could only replace that stage and keep the boss fight...

Bonus Round: Glass (00:19.26) - Is it faster to break the glass with 2 seconds left and have to wait while the bonus racks up, or is it faster to just wait for the time to run out? I broke the glass.

Round 5: (12:47.15) - I die once in the pool area during the Two P/J area (after the part with the Andores and Two P/Js). I also die once right in the middle of the ballroom area (between the Drumcan roll areas where you fight two Andores, Holly Wood and some Js), once right afterward in the area with all the different enemies, and once right before the door to the final area (leaving me with 0 lives when I go in). Then I do really well again and don't die until Belger shoots me (one death) right before I knock him out the window.

It's obvious that the run is miserable with all the deaths. I'm really not a finesse player with this yet, I just use the strategies I know and smash my way through most of the time, hoping for decent luck. I just looked over the thread and saw the times that were being posted, albeit they were about a year ago, and said "hey, mine is pretty fast comparably." I'll keep trying at it and see if I can make it cleaner.

Nightmare

2011-01-27 03:10:39 pm

Quote from thri11ki11:

Been playing the SNES version (on Wii VC) lately, trying to get good enough to record a run. I did start recording this afternoon, and managed

35:52.22 with Haggar on 8/4 difficulty and tons of deaths.

It was pretty close to a perfect run until I got to Edi.E and choked (of course, that doesn't say much because the bulk of the run is the last two levels).

I know there's a ton to do to make this submittable; I don't use the backwards jump during scrolling, and I die SO many times. Here's a breakdown by level; the times are actual times of control, not counting intros and exits.

Round 1: Slum - (02:34.04) - I kill Thrasher (DAMND) in two rounds instead of the usual three.

Round 2: Subway/Park (04:22.29) - I kill Katana (SODOM) and only die once in the process.

Bonus Round: Car (00:15.04) - I messed up on this a little...

Round 3: West Side (04:29.09) - I took a pounding at the beginning and had ZERO energy at the Andore cage fight, but managed to get through unscathed and get the food. I got to Edi.E at 3:39, and he proceeded to billy club me to death... twice... and then knock me into the scroll so that his cronies could interfere. I was horrified. But I kept going with the run anyway after losing 2 lives. If I hadn't died, the round probably would have been around 4:00 or so.

Round 4: Bay Area (09:39.22) - All bets were off here as I was frustrated and discouraged by my Round 3 shenanigans. I die once in the Wong Who/G Oriber/Bill Bull area, TWICE in the part after the music changes for the first time (in the area with the Slashes, Two Ps and Js), once to a Holly Wood firebomb, and once during the Holly Wood/El Gado area. Then something clicked again and the run changed... somehow I managed to defeat Abagail only dying ONCE. Unreal. If I could only replace that stage and keep the boss fight...

Bonus Round: Glass (00:19.26) - Is it faster to break the glass with 2 seconds left and have to wait while the bonus racks up, or is it faster to just wait for the time to run out? I broke the glass.

Round 5: (12:47.15) - I die once in the pool area during the Two P/J area (after the part with the Andores and Two P/Js). I also die once right in the middle of the ballroom area (between the Drumcan roll areas where you fight two Andores, Holly Wood and some Js), once right afterward in the area with all the different enemies, and once right before the door to the final area (leaving me with 0 lives when I go in). Then I do really well again and don't die until Belger shoots me (one death) right before I knock him out the window.

It's obvious that the run is miserable with all the deaths. I'm really not a finesse player with this yet, I just use the strategies I know and smash my way through most of the time, hoping for decent luck. I just looked over the thread and saw the times that were being posted, albeit they were about a year ago, and said "hey, mine is pretty fast comparably." I'll keep trying at it and see if I can make it cleaner.

Did you continue at all?

-James

[quote="thri11ki11"]Been playing the SNES version (on Wii VC) lately, trying to get good enough to record a run. I did start recording this afternoon, and managed