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Rotorstorm331: 2014-11-02 06:48:29 pm
I apologize if most of these posts and updates may look like pointless info, but while testing my skills against Retu to find a another way to deal more damage, I found a way to grab Retu since he usually breaks out of throws. I get really close to him and land two punches, then I hold forward and I succeed in grabbing him for a meaty combo.

I also discovered a pattern he follows with his recovery hops; once I figure out the pattern, I'll have a video made to show it, as its better to see then describe it.

EDIT: I was attempting to reapply the strat I found against Retu when I replayed the game again, but he started escaping from grab attempts.  This means that Retu's AI changes on each playthrough, so I can't apply meaty combos strats on Retu and it also means that Retu's aggression varies based on what the AI does.

In regards to practicing the speed run: its like the twilight zone; last week I was doing pretty good, and this week is terrible.  But somehow I'll get back to top form for the single segment recording.

One final note: you CAN jump on the hood of the car of the first bonus stage, found that by mistake, but a lucky mistake.
Took a break yesterday from practice, which was good since I did pretty darn well tonight on practice.  No lives lost on the first 5 stages, though play wise I need to improve on other parts where I need to focus on.  Shifting Jony&Atlas and Robert&Leon is still problematic for me, especially with multiples of them; I might consider not shifting those enemies.

Freddie and Bratken are still problems; the two strats for Freddie are risky at best, shifting isn't a sure thing with the jumping knee or without fast shifting, and if I don't time my strike to counter his charge just right, it means a reset.  Enemy reinforcements are problems with the Bratken fight, especially when they walk into your shifting and disrupt it.

Speaking of which, I think I may have figured out the lag undertow.  I redownloaded Final Fight 1 to test out Haggar's shifting to see if it has problems like this game; surprisingly, I haven't had problems with it, which was odd.  My guess, (and I might not be right.) is that it may have something to do with the Game's CD system or from the buffering to keep shifting limited.

If anyone knows about the game's mechanics, It would help, since I don't know much about mechanics.
Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner
Well honestly you've gone farther into the game than I have, so you've got a better grasp of the mechanics than I do. If I come across anything, I'll make sure to post it (thats not likely though)
Well, well,....

I think I've exhausted all my options to find ways to improve my speed run attempts, so now its time to start recording again.  Unfortunately, I had my right index fingernail cut badly while changing clothes from the dryer, not to mention coming down on a head cold, and all of this on the day after my birthday;  Sad  the good news is I can still play and do my runs, though the bandaged finger is bothersome at times.  I'll have a very busy week thus upcoming week, as I'll be working at work non-stop till SSB Wii U and Pokemon OR/AS come out on Friday, but I'll try to find time to record the run when ever possible; this time I'll try to be patient and not rush it until I have what I think is a good run.

On a final and minor note, I noticed you get a extra life at 10,000 points and every 20,000 after; I noticed that you'll get lives at these odd number amounts: 10,000, 30,000, 50,000, etc. 
Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner
Yeah extra lives continue to accumulate for every 20,000 points you get after the first 10,000 one. Far as I know, there is no upper limit to this.
Edit history:
Rotorstorm331: 2014-11-15 10:53:42 pm
I think I may have found the problem in regards to my shifting, though I won't have any proof until I get a reply to my question in tech support.

While looking up the term input lag, I realized this may have been the cause of my failed infinite attempts; I bought a HDTV towards the end of last year for recording, (this was before I decided to do speed running.) and if what I read is true, I may have to get a power splitter for it.

EDIT: Thanks to Sir VG's advice to put my TV on Game Mode, my shifting has improved!  There's still some snags every once in awhile, but overall its a huge improvement; the only thing now that can disrupt my shifting is human error.

While watching some Final Fight 2 videos on you tube I noticed that if even if Jony and Atlas block your attacks, you can still earn points for hitting them while they block.  Not really important, but interesting nevertheless.
Edit history:
Rotorstorm331: 2014-11-23 05:04:46 pm
Here's a strat I found for Haggar to use against Bratken.

Though it appears easy, its not.  You have to hit him at a certain distance to make sure he doesn't move during shifting; aside from enemies and possible screw ups on shifting, it'll work.  Even if shifting fails, he'll stand there for 5+ seconds before moving again; another thing to watch out for is his attempt to jump kick on recovery.
Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner
May not be easy, but it certainly looks doable with some practice fairly consistently. Nice find!
While I may have no plans to attempt running expert mode again in the near future, I've been watching you tube videos for more research, and while most characters attacks are weakened on expert mode, this seems to only apply to Andore's and Blockers (Atlas and Jony.), Joe, Won Won, Freddie, Bratken, Rolento, and Retu; from what I've seen, most enemies seem to take normal damage at most.  (though I could be wrong.)

Aside from this observation, I'll post again when I have some progress on running easy mode; hope you guys had a happy thanksgiving.  Smiley
Here's a recording I did last night, of my planned run.

While its not ready, I did improve my previous run to a sub 33.  Once I get my shifting improved, it'll be ready for resubmitting.  My strats on bosses are working for the most part, though I had problems with Won Won, Bratken fight was bad, and had only one death during Retu.

I'll keep at it until I feel its ready.
Edit history:
Rotorstorm331: 2014-12-17 03:39:34 pm
Rotorstorm331: 2014-12-17 03:38:16 pm
Rotorstorm331: 2014-12-17 03:36:41 pm
Today I was fiddling around with some despawning tricks to see if I can use to improve time for my run; tomorrow, I'll be making a video of the ones I found on easy mode and try to have it posted here either tomorrow night or Friday, but right now I need to go over a few things from what I learned.

The ideal here is to remove at least one or three enemies from the next stop and have the game spawn the next set of enemies to appear for that stop; since I'll be running Haggar, the only way he can despawn enemies is to quickly jump forward towards the stop after knocking down enemies towards the far end of the opposite side of the screen, while Carlos and Maki can do it more easily via chain throwing enemies and have better speed.  Most enemies aren't allowed to cross certain points if you scrolled towards the next stop fast enough but only when there's a long distance between the last stop and the next stop.

Of course not all of the despawns are useful and can cost time; a prefect example is the last part of 3-2 at the start of the sewers, where its possible to despawn Jack, Mark, and Elijah if you knock them towards the left part of the screen, but these guys can recover fast and can easily get to the next stop.  The despawn tricks for the start of round 2-1 and 2-3 seem to work only in expert mode, since I can't replicate it on easy. The clubbers (Eliot and Elias.) can sometimes be despawned if they choose not to pursue, but that's rare.  The ones I found useful are at 3-2, 5-2, 6-1, 6-2, and 6-4.  2-3, 3-2, and 6-4 are interesting due to having a create or barrel at those stops; not destroying those objects will cause certain enemies to be despawned at the next stop.

That's it for now, cya next time.
Here's the video I promised the other day.

I'll be making plans to get ready for submitting the Haggar easy mode run after Christmas and AGDQ are over; I hope you guys enjoy the Christmas holidays.  Also, shout-outs to all the runners that'll be running at AGDQ in a few weeks time, I wish you guys good luck.  Smiley

Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas SDA!  Smiley

Just finished uploading a video of two strats I came up with to use against Won Won with Haggar.  The second one is is a bit tricky if Won Won goes for a giant leap on recovery, but its nearly similar to the for Bratken.  Enjoy Christmas Day!

Edit history:
Rotorstorm331: 2015-01-01 04:20:23 pm
Rotorstorm331: 2015-01-01 04:19:56 pm
Just started making speed run attempts again now that the holiday season is over, (no more Christmas for 11 months.  Sad  ) and after some resets, I was able to do a single-segment with a time of 33:13, which is 23 seconds better then the one I posted on you tube.  However it wasn't without pitfalls and mistakes so it won't be sent in for submission.

On the other hand it was nearly turning into a no death run, but I took a death in round 5 and suffered about at least 5 more in round 6. Some of the despawn attempts didn't go the way I planned, so until I get those down right and improve on getting through round 6 without problems, I'll be holding off submitting the run until its ready. 

In closing good luck to all the runners that'll be running at AGDQ!  Smiley
I think I may have found out why my shifting isn't good.  Yesterday and today, I tried out Maki and Carlos to get a better feel and use for when I'm done with Haggar; needless to say it could be as to how fast you hit the attack button between presses, which also effects as to whether you'll see a normal flow or rapid fire flow of punches.

The frames of the punches can also effect as to pressing the opposite direction, a.k.a frame storage, and make shifting fail on occasion.  (Shout-outs to GaleDog and MURPHAGATOR for describing it during SOR2 at AGDQ.)

In my opinion, Haggar is actually a good character to use if you want to learn how to shift, then gradually move on to Carlos and then Maki.
Its been a while since I posted here, but I just finished doing some PB runs on the stages of Final Fight 2.  The first 5 stages look like they can be done within 3 to 4 minutes if you get good luck on most of them; the last stage, on the other hand, can be up to 9 to 10 minutes.

I also want to give a shout out to GaleDog for discovering hitstops, which is the actual reason why my shifting fails on occasion with two or three enemies; it means I'll have to find a way to press the attack button faster for fast shifting, (a.k.a hyper button mashing as GaleDog calls it.)

I also think RNG plays a role as to despawning enemies and cycling new ones; don't know how to explain it, but its a hunch.  Doing the PB runs also allowed me to find some new despawn tricks to improve time on certain stages, which in turn will help me for the actual run I'll be submitting.  (Which is also still being worked on.)

I think that the real factors for running this game aside from routing are the RNG, hitstops, and storage.  While I may not get a perfect round 1 or not go through the game without suffering mistakes and mishaps, it doesn't mean its impossible to get a good run in.  I'll update on progress on the project another time.
I'm still getting ready for submissions, though I've been changing controllers as of late.  I know Final Fight 2 wasn't appear at a GDQ event before, so I not sure what safety strats would be used for a marathon run aside from picking up food items, and 1-up items.  I'll be trying again later in the day to improve for SGDQ submission, but if anyone has any marathon strats or ideals I'd appreciate it.
Tonight, I streamed two practice runs; the second one wasn't much to talk about, but the first I managed to clock in 31:24:99.  Only three deaths, and nearly everything went right, and I couldn't be happier.  I'll be streaming once or twice a day depending on time of day or if I have a day off, so be sure to check out my channel, rotorstorm331, for more practice attempts.

I learned from GaleDog that my Final Fight 2 submission for a chance to be run at SGDQ passed the first round!  Smiley  Which is why I need to keep practicing until the final decision is made, but I'm not giving my hopes up, its still a longshot.  I'll have more info posted if I discover anything.
Its been awhile, so I figured I'd update on the status of my progress.

Sadly, Final Fight 2 didn't make it past round 2 of cuts; which is not surprising.  I knew it was a longshot, but the fact that it got past round 1 of cuts is still an accomplishment in my book.

Second piece of news is that I managed to bring down my Haggar easy mode run down to 30:50, it would've been around 30:45ish had it not been for that death on Retu, otherwise it was nearly perfect and it just fall into place.

The fact that I haven't gotten any golds on my splits as of late is a good indicator that the best time for Haggar on easy is around 30 minutes thanks in part of the strats, despawns, and good luck and RNG.  Of course, getting this time again will be the hard part.  Once SGDQ is over, I'll be focusing on resubmitting this run to SDA, so I won't be streaming again until after verification concludes.  If the Haggar run succeeds in verification, I'll be taking a hiatus from Final Fight 2 to focus on other projects; and when I do return to running Final Fight 2, I'll be focusing on Maki for my next project.  See ya next time.
Edit history:
Rotorstorm331: 2015-08-02 06:12:32 pm
Just got back from SGDQ, but during the event and with some help from my brother, I was able to confirm the friendly fire infinite in a two player run.

The way it works is that one of the players gets attacked by the other player along with a enemy; when this happens, you'll not complete your actual chain since you can't do this on your ally, and since your ally takes less damage, you can defeat enemy/ies with just the first hit of the chain.

There's a downside to this as Haggar is the only one who can take advantage of this with his long reach with his normal attack; Carlos can do this only if he's close to the player and the enemy.  Sadly, Maki can't do this since her punch range is short.  If a two player run is to be done, I say Haggar and Carlos would be the best candidates for the run.  Also this works on bosses, but you'll have to be a good button masher for it, since enemies might escape.

Sometime this week I'll be once again attempting a submission for a Final Fight 2 Haggar Easy run, but this time I won't be so hasty to get it done and I'll make sure to get a run with the least mistakes as much as possible.
I apologize for lack of updates...  Been busy saving money for next year, streaming, and such that I haven't had time to do submissions; and with the holidays getting closer I need to get them ready sometime next week.  Hopefully, I'll have them ready Friday.  Goal for the time being is to get through the first 5 stages without dying, then get through Round 6 normally.  I'll be sure to reset on deaths.  See ya next time.
Progress on getting video ready: So far, I had to reset 28 times and as of tonight, completed a run but decided to redo it since there was mistakes at most parts; Aside from Round 3, a lot of parts can get nasty due to RNG and AI in the last 3 rounds; only had 4 deaths on the run, the first to Rolento and the other 3 on Round 6.

I also decided not to do the second bonus round since I'll lose time on tallying the score and its not worth it.

See ya next time.
An update on the video submissions: so far the struggle for a good run continues, but I'm not throwing in the towel just yet; Round 1 is still giving me problems no thanks to lag in general.

Also, shout-outs to MURPHAGATOR for explaining about how barrels and creates count as enemies the other night, which in turn can explain the despawns I've found out at certain parts of the game; of course it doesn't work for all of them but I still plan to use the ones that do work.
Its been almost a year since my last post; for the most part, its been more or less the same.  Sadly, fear keeps me from trying to submit a run to SDA due to my past failure on my expert mode run and sadly, despite improvements, problems with Haggar's grouping through chain throwing are bad to the point that I don't try it anymore; this is due to enemies easily moving up or down during Haggar's throw animation, which makes it harder, not to mention the animation last 2 seconds and either doesn't stack enemies together or enemies get knocked farther away.

Still, I'll try again on Saturday and just hope for the best.
Edit history:
Rotorstorm331: 2017-07-03 08:30:16 pm
Man..., I haven't been here a long time.  Anyway, I've come to the realization as to why I failed in submitting the run a few years back; it maybe due to the fact that I didn't utilize on optimal strats in addition to grouping.  It would also explain as to why my failed run was considered too safe. If I knew about optimal strats back then, it would've passed...., probably.

Problem is, as I've come to realize, I'm not very good at explaining this in detail and a lot I've posted probably doesn't make sense as MURPHAGATOR mentioned years back.  I seem to have a slow mind and a slow tounge; and I probably do more better in showing what I mean whether then explain it.  I don't know if I'll submit a run of Final Fight 2 to SDA, but I haven't given up yet; but with no possible optimal strats, incapable of grouping, among other things, its getting harder for me.

I've been greatful for the help I've received, but lot of the stuff I've figured out had to be done on my own as there isn't a lot of people running it.  I'm still going to run this game, but this will be my last post on this thread.  Feel free to check out my videos on youtube to learn how to run Final Fight 2 with Haggar or use them as knowledge to help you out in learning.  See ya on Twitch!