Final Fantasy XIII Speedrun

2013-02-10 09:44:27 am

Reverse Death Valley Bomb

Sorry about that :X I implemented some route changes such as Wladislaus and just filled in the route backwards hoping everything would be ok! I finally got around to running the entire thing today soooo it SHOULD be complete, anything that isn't right should be very obvious and if you have any questions I'm right here to help ^^

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5udaemho7ew6sex/IT5dt3nlc4

Enjoy!

Brettatron

2013-02-10 01:12:58 pm

Heh, no worries. I've only been practising the first 6 chapters so far, and not much changed. Protoflorian fight a little, but not really. I did a timed Ch 1-6 run just to get a baseline for just how well my practice was going. Finished only about 26 minutes behind Zonings run a couple nights ago to the same spot, so I'm pretty happy with that. Gotta learn the other 2/3 of the game now XD

DRsynj

2013-02-10 03:03:36 pm

Reverse Death Valley Bomb

Wow congrats! I love to hear more people are digging into the game, as was the idea of making a set of *readable* notes public Smiley

In Ch. 1-6 I just changed Lightning's CP in order to have Fire for Protoflorian, it means she's covered for 3 of 4 Exoproof elements instead of just 2, it also means she can have Overwhelm for Ushamgal Subjugator making both those fights a lot more consistent!
Good luck with the rest of the run :3

Zoning

Edit history:

Zoning: 2013-02-10 08:28:09 pm

2013-02-10 08:26:50 pm

Just lost a run on Barthandelus 2 that would have been massively under 6, probably 5:50:xx, possibly in the 5:49:xx range. So Sub 6 is looking like the goal for submitting I guess. Finally got a recorded run that had sub 6 gametime but it was a 6:20 RTA. I don't really know if I am messing something up or if it a matter of time but I am hoping for that latter.

Triggerlily

2013-02-10 11:08:45 pm

The difference on Protoflorian is very noticeable. I've gotten Exoproof: Fire once and there was basically no risk of the stagger running out before it died. So much easier to calculate then the original Summon strat

Zoning

2013-02-12 03:35:44 am

I finished a run at 6:08:xx RTA and 5:57:xx game time tonight. I did manage to get it recorded with amarec and LAGS so I could submit. There are a few deaths; notably Barth 2 and Wladislaus, but the time is quite good. I will continue to try and get a better time for a little while but I may end up submitting this run if no one can get a better one.

Anyway, good luck to Triggerlily and Brett, hope FF13 treats you better than it has me XD

Zoning

2013-02-12 08:19:15 pm

This is a strategy I have been using for Brynhildr recently (been used forever by JP runners took me a while to catch on to how to make it work). It is much safer and faster than current strats.

http://www.twitch.tv/zoning1138/c/1922692

Triggerlily

2013-02-12 11:06:07 pm

Certainly seems a lot easier to pull off then the SYN/SAB - RAV/RAV strat there Zoning but what did you do before hand. Did you go into the previous boss with SYN/MED or did you retry before Brynhildr?

Zoning

2013-02-12 11:43:10 pm

I set paradigms as follows Com/Rav Com/Med Syn/Rav* Syn/Med Com/Sab Rav/Rav. May make the first paradigm com/med in the future i think it will be faster because you can atb cancel that way. For the midlight reaper fight I do just standard, haste on both bravery/enfrost on sazh then use com/sab and try for 3 or so chains then stagger then debuff imperil/deprotect then kill. I also use doc code for both fights and brawlers for midlight and shield talisman for bryhildr. Van has a tungsten bangle

DRsynj

2013-02-13 06:34:57 am

Reverse Death Valley Bomb

Do what you like, I just use the RAV/RAV strat because it works for me, as soon as I start dying to Brynhildr I'll change but for now I'm good with this. Just make sure to have SYN/--- in the first slot because that way you enter Brynhildr with that paradigm, you can set any other paradigm as lead for Midlight.

Zoning

Edit history:

Zoning: 2013-02-13 03:34:12 pm

2013-02-13 10:04:32 am

That is actually slower for this fight Dylan. Because Bryhildr opens with doom, it is faster to cancel the interrupt by shifting paradigms to something else. This also gets rid of the animation of switching paradigms for the fight. Do what you like, I'm only trying to help people but this strat is MUCH easier and my best time is about 25 seconds faster than using ravagers.

DRsynj

2013-02-13 10:48:58 am

Reverse Death Valley Bomb

I can test it later to find out how fast it is but the time you've given us in that vid is slower than what I have.

Triggerlily

2013-02-13 01:12:53 pm

Ok I actually messed with this a bit. Using Dylan's original strat the set up starts as

COM/SAB
COM/SAB
SYN/SAB
RAV/RAV
RAV/RAV
COM/MED

Switching SYN/SAB to SYN/MED turned out to not be an option at all because of Vanille being a troll and having terrible luck with Deprotect. Second attempt at messing with the paradigms replaced the first COM/SAB with SYN/MED which also didn't go so well but that was just a dumb idea for Midlight. Ironically resulted in my fastest Bryhildr fight so far.

More of an example of her being agreeable and staying close without knocking Sazh over. Only problem was Vanille kinda died instead oops... Tongue

Last idea and what felt the most effective after a few tries was replacing the first RAV/RAV with SYN/SAB and making the third paradigm SYN/MED.

This attempt went quite possibly the worst way possible hitstun wise to start not to mention she massively backed off but still ended in a 1:25. Also managing to shrug off the doom stun ended up going to waste because I got hit immediately.

My paradigms at this point look like this:

COM/SAB
COM/SAB
SYN/MED
SYN/SAB (Active)
RAV/RAV
COM/MED

Although it feels more comfortable then RAV/RAV ATB Canceling it counts almost entirely on Brynhildr's distance to Sazh and the amount of hitstun that takes place.

Ok I actually messed with this a bit. Using Dylan's original strat the set up starts as

COM/SAB
COM/SAB
SYN/SAB
RAV/RAV
RAV/RAV
COM/MED

Switching SYN/SAB to SYN/MED turned out to not be an option at all because of Vanille being a troll and having terrible luck with Deprotect. Second attempt at messing with the paradigms replaced the first COM/SAB with SYN/MED which also didn't go so well but that was just a dumb idea for Midlight. Ironically resulted in my fastest Bryhildr fight so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlWRLp6MOJ4

More of an example of her being agreeable and staying close without knocking Sazh over. Only problem was Vanille kinda died instead oops... :P Last idea and what felt the most effective after a few tries was replacing the first RAV/RAV with SYN/SAB and making the third paradigm SYN/MED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1bGWIf69XY

This attempt went quite possibly the worst way possible hitstun wise to start not to mention she massively backed off but still ended in a 1:25. Also managing to shrug off the doom stun ended up going to waste because I got hit immediately.

My paradigms at this point look like this:

COM/SAB
COM/SAB
SYN/MED
SYN/SAB (Active)
RAV/RAV
COM/MED

Although it feels more comfortable then RAV/RAV ATB Canceling it counts almost entirely on Brynhildr's distance to Sazh and the amount of hitstun that takes place.

DRsynj

2013-02-13 06:49:47 pm

Reverse Death Valley Bomb

Good work! Trying out some COM strats it seems pretty good, also I remember Zoning saying something about landing imperil in this fight being bad but I'm not seeing it, I'd be happy running something like:
COM/RAV
COM/RAV
*SYN/SAB
COM/SAB
RAV/RAV
COM/MED

Land Haste, Bravery, Enfrost on Sazh then just potion and switch to COM/RAV to the end, getting consistent sub 1:10. With the amount of HP you have you can take a reasonable amount of risk and just use potions across ATB cancels if you really need. The pay off of using SYN/SAB is that if Imperil lands then you have Vanille in RAV to make the most of it, I hate Midlight without it too, landing debuffs in that fights is worse than any other fight for me so as much time in sab as possible before staggering is a good thing!

Zoning

2013-02-13 06:59:33 pm

You don't have to do midlight without syn/sab, just get rid of a redundant paradigm, in your case com/rav and sub in syn/med. And I was messing up the strategy when I believed that vanille hurt the fight time. I advocate for using medics because it is just incredibly safe but it isn't imperative. Now just better alex/hecaton strats are needed and all eidolons will be sorted. I am stuck working with adamancheild times right now but can't seem to drop below 1:40 with my party set up at the time without fortisol.

DRsynj

2013-02-13 07:22:12 pm

Reverse Death Valley Bomb

But I like COM/RAV o.O SYN/MED doesn't make sense to me. GL with your other fights.

Brettatron

2013-02-25 03:07:33 pm

Lets jive on Bar 2 for a minute here.

I understand that it is one of the less consistent fights in the run, using the strat DRsynj has provided in the notes, and that zoning uses. Having just gotten past that point in my practise, I can see how it may be frustrating.

I also understand there is a second strategy out there, currently dubbed "Luna strats". Can someone provide me with an outline of this strat, and explain its advantages and disadvantages?

For myself, using the strat in the notes, the hardest part was avoiding apoptosis. Zoning later told me I was doing it wrong, and now knowing the right way, I feel like the fight should probably be less finnicky. What EXACTLY is the thing causing the most problem?

Triggerlily has complained about Vanille not landing debuffs quick enough. While I can see this being a problem in the rare event that she just... doesnt get them... ever (it has happened... but usually she eventually hits them). I would usually just throw potions up for a couple rounds until everything landed and it was fine.

The point of this post: Bar 2 seems to be troublesome for most people to me. I want to pin down exactly WHY it is, and perhaps get a discussion going to discover a way to get it more consistent.

... also revive the thread Wink

Lets jive on Bar 2 for a minute here.

I understand that it is one of the less consistent fights in the run, using the strat DRsynj has provided in the notes, and that zoning uses. Having just gotten past that point in my practise, I can see how it may be frustrating.

I also understand there is a second strategy out there, currently dubbed "Luna strats". Can someone provide me with an outline of this strat, and explain its advantages and disadvantages?

For myself, using the strat in the notes, the hardest part was avoiding apoptosis. Zoning later told me I was doing it wrong, and now knowing the right way, I feel like the fight should probably be less finnicky. What EXACTLY is the thing causing the most problem?

Triggerlily has complained about Vanille not landing debuffs quick enough. While I can see this being a problem in the rare event that she just... doesnt get them... ever (it has happened... but usually she eventually hits them). I would usually just throw potions up for a couple rounds until everything landed and it was fine.

The point of this post: Bar 2 seems to be troublesome for most people to me. I want to pin down exactly WHY it is, and perhaps get a discussion going to discover a way to get it more consistent.

... also revive the thread ;)

Triggerlily

2013-02-25 04:08:56 pm

FORTISOL

No seriously...That's about the only major difference between what Luna does and what the notes say

http://www.twitch.tv/crystalbeauty/c/1847139
http://www.twitch.tv/triggerlily/c/1947056

There's a small difference in paradigms as well

COM/MED/SEN
COM/RAV/SAB (Active)
RAV/SAB/SEN
RAV/RAV/COM
COM/MED/COM
COM/RAV/COM

COM/MED/SEN is there only to get your HP back up before pulling off the 2nd stagger. Otherwise it's pretty much the same fight. The fortisol means not having to recast buffs so there's far less chance of screwing up and getting owned after the first Apoptsis. If he decides he would rather use Thanatosian Laughter after his little transformation then just elixir through it and continue to hit with Blitz til Apoptsis since Brynhildr will heal you after it finishes. As for status effects learn your item names and uses Tongue

Daze is the major one that's gonna get you killed. Worry more about Sazh and Vanille for this since Fang is probably already being shot at anyways

FORTISOL

No seriously...That's about the only major difference between what Luna does and what the notes say

http://www.twitch.tv/crystalbeauty/c/1847139
http://www.twitch.tv/triggerlily/c/1947056

There's a small difference in paradigms as well

COM/MED/SEN
COM/RAV/SAB (Active)
RAV/SAB/SEN
RAV/RAV/COM
COM/MED/COM
COM/RAV/COM

COM/MED/SEN is there only to get your HP back up before pulling off the 2nd stagger. Otherwise it's pretty much the same fight. The fortisol means not having to recast buffs so there's far less chance of screwing up and getting owned after the first Apoptsis. If he decides he would rather use Thanatosian Laughter after his little transformation then just elixir through it and continue to hit with Blitz til Apoptsis since Brynhildr will heal you after it finishes. As for status effects learn your item names and uses :P Daze is the major one that's gonna get you killed. Worry more about Sazh and Vanille for this since Fang is probably already being shot at anyways

Zoning

2013-02-25 04:19:12 pm

For Barth 2, when you aren't concerned about the ~42 seconds it costs for the fortisol, using both fort/aegi-sol is not out of hand and Luna's strategy is incredibly consistent (Luna focuses a lot on timing trying to get case 1 to appear [explained later] and also avoiding the use of an elixir). For my part I have back off Vanille as a Com again (this is getting cyclical) and have encountered 3 patterns; 1- laughter before apoptosis, 2- apoptosis before laughter, and 3- laughter before apoptosis but waiting so long the summon meter has run out. After the first stagger the easiest timing is to wait a moment (trying to avoid the first volley of lasers because if this hits you in case 1 you will die and have to use the elixir immediately and summon again) then summon, eliminating the necessity to time anything as far as dodging apoptosis is concerned.
With 1, simply use a potion then wait for apoptosis and cancel it as usual. Then you can proceed to debuff and stagger almost without fear because no big hit *should* be coming (I haven't had it happen but I'm not dismissing the idea).
As for case 2, where you didn't deal enough damage in the first stagger to initiate laughter before apoptosis, Dylan has fantastic timing that you should absolutely be using. I kinda just proceed as normal until I Barth's HP in laughter range and then I keep my hp high and just be ready to use renew if I see the attack beginning. Just make sure you have at least one renew but you can take Barth down before he uses laughter at times.
In case 3, it kinda sucks but you need to just immediately use an elixir and summon again. This isn't too bad as, again, laughter is out of the way and you can proceed to debuff and stagger.

For debuffing, there is really nothing you can do. There is a percent chance that you will land the debuff, this chance increases as you fail until you land the debuff. So the only way around it not landing is to keep casting >.> You could change CP to include a higher role level for Vanille in Sab (I am unaware of how this plays out or if it is already in the route) in an effort to increase your chances. There is always the idea of using a Com/Com/Sab paradigm (again I am ignorant as to whether or not this is already in play in the route) and just staggering Barth and using Com/Com/Sab to debuff during the stagger.

On a side note, I have recorded 2 6:02:xx runs, the latest of which was graced with Progenitorial Wrath which killed Sazh. Starting to get discouraged by constantly losing runs and may just submit. How is everyone else fairing on their runs/practice?

For Barth 2, when you aren't concerned about the ~42 seconds it costs for the fortisol, using both fort/aegi-sol is not out of hand and Luna's strategy is incredibly consistent (Luna focuses a lot on timing trying to get case 1 to appear [explained later] and also avoiding the use of an elixir).  For my part I have back off Vanille as a Com again (this is getting cyclical) and have encountered 3 patterns; 1- laughter before apoptosis, 2- apoptosis before laughter, and 3- laughter before apoptosis but waiting so long the summon meter has run out.  After the first stagger the easiest timing is to wait a moment (trying to avoid the first volley of lasers because if this hits you in case 1 you will die and have to use the elixir immediately and summon again) then summon, eliminating the necessity to time anything as far as dodging apoptosis is concerned.  
  With 1, simply use a potion then wait for apoptosis and cancel it as usual.  Then you can proceed to debuff and stagger almost without fear because no big hit *should* be coming (I haven't had it happen but I'm not dismissing the idea).
  As for case 2, where you didn't deal enough damage in the first stagger to initiate laughter before apoptosis, Dylan has fantastic timing that you should absolutely be using.  I kinda just proceed as normal until I Barth's HP in laughter range and then I keep my hp high and just be ready to use renew if I see the attack beginning.  Just make sure you have at least one renew but you can take Barth down before he uses laughter at times. 
   In case 3, it kinda sucks but you need to just immediately use an elixir and summon again.  This isn't too bad as, again, laughter is out of the way and you can proceed to debuff and stagger.

For debuffing, there is really nothing you can do.  There is a percent chance that you will land the debuff, this chance increases as you fail until you land the debuff.  So the only way around it not landing is to keep casting >.>  You could change CP to include a higher role level for Vanille in Sab (I am unaware of how this plays out or if it is already in the route) in an effort to increase your chances.  There is always the idea of using a Com/Com/Sab paradigm (again I am ignorant as to whether or not this is already in play in the route) and just staggering Barth and using Com/Com/Sab to debuff during the stagger.

On a side note, I have recorded 2 6:02:xx runs, the latest of which was graced with Progenitorial Wrath which killed Sazh.  Starting to get discouraged by constantly losing runs and may just submit.  How is everyone else fairing on their runs/practice?

DRsynj

Edit history:

DRsynj: 2013-02-25 05:30:40 pm

DRsynj: 2013-02-25 04:19:46 pm

2013-02-25 04:19:23 pm

Reverse Death Valley Bomb

The only consistent problem I've had with Bart 2 is his debuffs and reacting to Thanatosian Laughter; I'm too lazy to see it, switch to a med or sen paradigm them renew/elixir. I try to keep the items on me to heal the debuffs but sometimes missing even one turn to daze is a big problem.
I've also never had a problem with landing debuffs using my paradigms, if they cause the second phase to go slightly slower than usual then I just have to commit to the elixir strat more. With an elixir use you can stagger and use elixir and renews in order to stay well out of a sen or med paradigm and stay in COM/RAV/COM (or RAV/RAV/COM if I really need to push for Chain Gauge to get maximum DPS,) thus making the second stagger kill more consistent.

Triggerlily

2013-02-25 05:01:02 pm

My practice has been brought to a halt by a certain pain known as Proudclad 2 >_> Although I'm understanding the strat for the most part my ability to pull it off is being slowed down by execution errors everywhere. I seem to have no problem killing everything up to that point on my first attempt at least

DRsynj

2013-02-25 05:34:32 pm

Reverse Death Valley Bomb

If you're using my notes just remember to burn the ATB refresh the turn before entering the RAV paradigm to stagger and Cold Blood, it allows you to get an ATB refresh straight away during stagger so Fang gets as much damage as possible. Other than that I really have to count the 12 seconds of an ATB refresh to be accurate with it during Cold Blood or it goes bad >< I generally find PC2 MUCH more consistent than Bart 2 like this.

Triggerlily

2013-02-25 09:21:47 pm

I've been getting the ATB thing down. It's more a matter of reacting to what PC2 is doing now to make sure my HP doesn't drop to 0 out of nowhere. Just gonna take some time to get used to I guess

Sharkie

2013-02-26 08:55:13 pm

Building a better mouse...

I can only make runs on the weekend - but my practice has gone decently. I think there's at least a half an hour to be made up by looking at the notes less often.

I've made 4 full runs - the first i finished was 10:32:33. I've sliced it down to 8:13:14 now - Barthandaleus and Orphan have been pretty easy for me. Taejin's tower, PC2 and Wladislaus have been hangups, but i don't think they are difficult - it's just a vary thin line of execution. Well, it's a thin line as long as i remember Fang's Commando level 4, of course >_<

I overcome most of my debuff issues by taking the time to get Fang and Vanille both to Sab level 3 - if I recall, Dylan's notes leave both at level 2. Deboffs seem to stick much faster with the extra role level

I'm also losing a lot of time on my protoflorian split - but i think that's just me doing a terrible job with sazh and vanille after Odin.

Zoning

Edit history:

Zoning: 2013-02-27 02:21:24 am

2013-02-27 02:19:04 am

Hey all I finally got Sub 6 recorded Cheesy

JUST by the skin of my teeth lol RTA: 5:59:34. Not the cleanest run (behind by 5 minutes at the end of ch10) and I used the safest strats possible for Orphan 1 but hey, I am finally gonna get some rest now for once ^^ I did record so I think I am going to submit this run as the time lost came from encounters which is just whatever to me. Anyway good luck everyone!

Nice to see you in here Sharkie! I get sab level 3 for Vanille in ch13 but leave Fang down at Curse for the end game. If it helps you and doesn't harm your CP route all you are doing is costing a small bit of time in the menus which could be justified if the debuffs are hitting earlier.