Final Fantasy XIII Speedrun

2010-03-18 06:51:57 pm

Just got to the 3rd disk and I would have to say a speed run of this game would be quite amazing if done correctly. You might have to farm a little bit of CP before the chapter 9 boss as I had some problems with him. Haste is a broken buff though.

spineshark

2010-03-18 07:55:09 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Quote from FatalPhantasms:

ATB cancelling

Okay, color me dubious on this. I'm pretty sure using PShift does not "magically" restore the bar. You get bars back when you switch because time is still passing (and because it de-queues whatever you were doing). But here, since I don't have a copy of the game on me, how about you try a little experiment for me and tell me what happens! Not in the rhetorical sense, I'd appreciate a report back since I can't check at the moment.

So take Fang (or Snow I guess) and some Paradigms that won't kill the enemies. SEN/MED/MED, SEN/SYN/MED, whatever (but if you do use a Synergist, make sure they don't have Haste. It'll kinda contradict the point). The reason I'm saying to use Sentinels for this is because their moves actually last long enough to see this (as compared to attacks and cures that you won't see stopping when you switch)

#1: Start a battle and queue up as many Steelguards as you can. When the first one starts, switch paradigms, but make sure Fang is still a SEN obviously. Now, I'm pretty sure that after the first Steelguard ends, she will not do anything. In other words, even if you don't change roles in a shift, your characters' actions are reset after they finish their current individual action (not even the whole turn).

#2: Now, switch a few times, until the animation goes down to really fast. Now queue up all Steelguards again, and this time, switch paradigms as soon as it gets to the last one. The bar should be basically empty, because during the shift, she was still guarding instead of idling to recover the bar.

Quote:

It might be a good idea to farm Deceptisols (smoke shrouds) in the beginning of the game where you control Vanille and Hope is a teammate, and they're on their way to Anima, before they meet up with Snow. Enemies there commonly drop Decpitsols. Deceptisols will help you sneak by enemies when they're tough to just run past.

I'd have to say a better use is getting pre-emptive attacks in the random encounters you can't avoid (before Barthandelus, 3x Sanctum Templars). If you're having trouble avoiding something that's possible, you need to try harder =p

Quote:

As for the requisite grinding in order to beat Ch 11, you might try the battle where the Behemoth is fighting the other dude, stagger the Behemoth, and keep him in the air with three commandos, never let him land. Even when his stagger bar runs out (and he's back to normal) if you keep him in the air, he'll never be able to retaliate. If he lands though, consider yourself dead considering how weak you are without grinding. In order to keep him in the air, you might not be able to do all four of your attack strings. You might have to interrupt and only do 1 or 2 attacks by pressing Y or triangle to juggle him.

lol this is what i said

[quote="FatalPhantasms"]
ATB cancelling[/quote]
Okay, color me dubious on this.  I'm pretty sure using PShift does not "magically" restore the bar.  You get bars back when you switch [i]because time is still passing[/i] (and because it de-queues whatever you were doing).  But here, since I don't have a copy of the game on me, how about you try a little experiment for me and tell me what happens!  Not in the rhetorical sense, I'd appreciate a report back since I can't check at the moment.

So take Fang (or Snow I guess) and some Paradigms that won't kill the enemies.  SEN/MED/MED, SEN/SYN/MED, whatever (but if you do use a Synergist, make sure they don't have Haste.  It'll kinda contradict the point).  The reason I'm saying to use Sentinels for this is because their moves actually last long enough to see this (as compared to attacks and cures that you won't see stopping when you switch)

#1: Start a battle and queue up as many Steelguards as you can.  When the first one starts, switch paradigms, but make sure Fang is still a SEN obviously.  Now, I'm pretty sure that after the first Steelguard ends, she will not do anything.  In other words, even if you don't change roles in a shift, your characters' actions are reset after they finish their [i]current[/i] individual action (not even the whole turn).

#2: Now, switch a few times, until the animation goes down to really fast.  Now queue up all Steelguards again, and this time, switch paradigms as soon as it gets to the last one.  The bar should be basically empty, because during the shift, she was still guarding instead of idling to recover the bar.
[quote]It might be a good idea to farm Deceptisols (smoke shrouds) in the beginning of the game where you control Vanille and Hope is a teammate, and they're on their way to Anima, before they meet up with Snow. Enemies there commonly drop Decpitsols. Deceptisols will help you sneak by enemies when they're tough to just run past.[/quote]
I'd have to say a better use is getting pre-emptive attacks in the random encounters you can't avoid (before Barthandelus, 3x Sanctum Templars).  If you're having trouble avoiding something that's possible, you need to try harder =p
[quote]As for the requisite grinding in order to beat Ch 11, you might try the battle where the Behemoth is fighting the other dude, stagger the Behemoth, and keep him in the air with three commandos, never let him land.  Even when his stagger bar runs out (and he's back to normal) if you keep him in the air, he'll never be able to retaliate.  If he lands though, consider yourself dead considering how weak you are without grinding.  In order to keep him in the air, you might not be able to do all four of your attack strings.  You might have to interrupt and only do 1 or 2 attacks by pressing Y or triangle to juggle him.
[/quote]
lol this is what i said

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2010-03-18 08:08:06 pm

2010-03-18 08:03:04 pm

The Paradigm Shift ATB thingy does work, but there's a 12 second cooldown timer on it. So, you can't just keep switching paradigms mid-animation and see a full ATB bar everytime. All you can do is time the shift so that you don't have to sit through your characters switching their paradigms.

So with Lightning: (Start as COM) Attack-Attack-Attack-(Shift to RAV on last attack, cancelling the paradigm shift animations)-Magic-Magic-Magic-(shift and Wait for ATB bar)

KillerSOS

2010-03-18 09:45:46 pm

Quote from Carcinogen:

The Paradigm Shift ATB thingy does work, but there's a 12 second cooldown timer on it. So, you can't just keep switching paradigms mid-animation and see a full ATB bar everytime. All you can do is time the shift so that you don't have to sit through your characters switching their paradigms.

So with Lightning: (Start as COM) Attack-Attack-Attack-(Shift to RAV on last attack, cancelling the paradigm shift animations)-Magic-Magic-Magic-(shift and Wait for ATB bar)

Even without doing this intentionally I have noticed this as well.... didn't know it was a 12 second CD though thats quite intresting. The video that was linked above wasn't that useful though.

Carcinogen

2010-03-19 09:02:55 am

Of course it wasn't useful. I linked it to ask a question. Not to post an answer.

FatalPhantasms

2010-03-19 11:53:53 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Many people on the GameFAQs forums have confirmed ATB canceling works, and I myself have done it many times in-game to discern the difference between an intsa-full ATB gauge as opposed to a gauge that is filling up. You can easily see it when you have at least 4 bars. The difference isn't huge all the time, but it's definitely worth it to give you an advantage. And in a speedrun in which you are weak, you will be grateful for any boosts you get. I can also confirm the 12 second cooldown timer. So what that means is, approximately every two turns you can ATB cancel.

There's also summon cancelling, where you summon an Eidolon, cancel it, use an Elixer to restore your TP, and repeat. Apparently you can get elixers by dismantling mastered Doctor's Code accessories, of which you can pick up at least two from treasure chests. A guy on GameFAQs was doing the No Crystarium challenge and using this tactic, talks about it here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=928790&topic=53964704

Summon Cancelling might be used, for example, to endure a particularly nasty and damaging hit from a boss.

Many people on the GameFAQs forums have confirmed ATB canceling works, and I myself have done it many times in-game to discern the difference between an intsa-full ATB gauge as opposed to a gauge that is filling up.  You can easily see it when you have at least 4 bars.  The difference isn't huge all the time, but it's definitely worth it to give you an advantage.  And in a speedrun in which you are weak, you will be grateful for any boosts you get.  I can also confirm the 12 second cooldown timer.  So what that means is, approximately every two turns you can ATB cancel.

There's also summon cancelling, where you summon an Eidolon, cancel it, use an Elixer to restore your TP, and repeat.  Apparently you can get elixers by dismantling mastered Doctor's Code accessories, of which you can pick up at least two from treasure chests.  A guy on GameFAQs was doing the No Crystarium challenge and using this tactic, talks about it here: [url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=928790&topic=53964704]http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=928790&topic=53964704[/url]

Summon Cancelling might be used, for example, to endure a particularly nasty and damaging hit from a boss.

KillerSOS

2010-03-20 11:18:38 pm

I guess I will look more into this at depth later on but I think it would be an amazingly slick looking RPG speed run.

Dudemanguy86

2010-03-22 07:33:32 am

Just gonna stop in for a few notes on here before getting back to the game itself.

-ATB cancelling and summon cancelling DO work 100% of the time, it just requires that you find that 12 second window as mentioned above and abuse the hell out of it.
-at any place, at any time, in any area, in any fight, ever; you can press [start] and then [select] to retry a battle and RESPAWN all enemies that are before/after/around/in the area, this is ideal for CP grinding in certain locations where you can easily triple commandor or dual commando/ravager blitz+thundaga/aeroga things such as the hoplites in mahn'barah (sp?) or respawning the adamanchelid in the big area (totally forgot the actual name of the map).
-orphan's second form is susceptible to death when staggered, orphan's 1st form is easy if you ATB cancel with tri-disaster/aggression with lightning/fang/hope (hope can be replaced by vanille if you're going for the lucky death chance in his 2nd form). I think this is the only logical way to handle the last fight outside of abusing elixir/summon cancelling; which is probably going to be needed elsewhere in a situation where death cannot be used at any point, such as the Bartandelos guy (probably butchered his name, sorry for that)
-goddess' favor fully upgraded dismantles into ribbon+extra crap (i think...) the item that turns into GF is obtained relatively early, ribbon can give you 25% resistance to status ailments (includes death) fully upgraded, that plus 2 cherub's crowns on lightning is a sure-fire anti-death on orphan's first form vs his 1 hit KO ability unless you're just extremely unlucky.

-Lightning = ravager (army of one = amazing)
-Fang = commando/sentinel (whichever you deem more important
-Hope/Vanille = medic (if you choose vanille, you don't get protect/shell for most of the main game, if you choose hope, you don't get death for orphan's 2nd form and a few other key places)
-Sazh = synergist/ravager
-Snow = sentinel

The fastest CP grind location i've found to date involves cactuars, but can work without them too i suppose, the fighting behemoth king and that dog-looking creature (megalothion or something like that) are almost always pre-emptive strike capable and as long as you can juggle the BK with a tri-disaster or aggression type setup, you can drop him in no time, then obliterate the other enemy easily.

more to come possibly, that's about all i can remember without actually playing the game.

Just gonna stop in for a few notes on here before getting back to the game itself.

-ATB cancelling and summon cancelling DO work 100% of the time, it just requires that you find that 12 second window as mentioned above and abuse the hell out of it.
-at any place, at any time, in any area, in any fight, ever; you can press [start] and then [select] to retry a battle and RESPAWN all enemies that are before/after/around/in the area, this is ideal for CP grinding in certain locations where you can easily triple commandor or dual commando/ravager blitz+thundaga/aeroga things such as the hoplites in mahn'barah (sp?) or respawning the adamanchelid in the big area (totally forgot the actual name of the map).
-orphan's second form is susceptible to death when staggered, orphan's 1st form is easy if you ATB cancel with tri-disaster/aggression with lightning/fang/hope (hope can be replaced by vanille if you're going for the lucky death chance in his 2nd form). I think this is the only logical way to handle the last fight outside of abusing elixir/summon cancelling; which is probably going to be needed elsewhere in a situation where death cannot be used at any point, such as the Bartandelos guy (probably butchered his name, sorry for that)
-goddess' favor fully upgraded dismantles into ribbon+extra crap (i think...) the item that turns into GF is obtained relatively early, ribbon can give you 25% resistance to status ailments (includes death) fully upgraded, that plus 2 cherub's crowns on lightning is a sure-fire anti-death on orphan's first form vs his 1 hit KO ability unless you're just extremely unlucky.

-Lightning = ravager (army of one = amazing)
-Fang = commando/sentinel (whichever you deem more important
-Hope/Vanille = medic (if you choose vanille, you don't get protect/shell for most of the main game, if you choose hope, you don't get death for orphan's 2nd form and a few other key places)
-Sazh = synergist/ravager
-Snow = sentinel

The fastest CP grind location i've found to date involves cactuars, but can work without them too i suppose, the fighting behemoth king and that dog-looking creature (megalothion or something like that) are almost always pre-emptive strike capable and as long as you can juggle the BK with a tri-disaster or aggression type setup, you can drop him in no time, then obliterate the other enemy easily.

more to come possibly, that's about all i can remember without actually playing the game.

VorpalEdge

2010-03-25 02:11:51 pm

welcome to the machine

I just beat this, so I'll pop in to say that I don't envy whoever runs this game. You're going to have to manipulate deceptisols out of the forced battles in the beginning, there's no two ways about it. There's just too much stuff that can only be skipped with them (like the 3x Sanctum Templars spineshark mentioned on the previous page).

And something you may not know: you can use Fortisols and Aegisols to bring buffs into pretty much any battle in the game, including boss battles and those that start by cutscenes instead of contact with an enemy on the map. This may be necessary for some fights. Barthandelus 1, for example, gets a lot easier if you do this, since you can kill more of the heads before he starts upgrading the spells they cast.

beekee350

2010-03-25 02:38:13 pm

This might already be known, if you use a Deceptisol and enter a battle and select retry and you get your Deceptisol back. If you run to the safe spot past the enemy and then fight them and select retry you end up past them with your Deceptisol.

thundrio_1

2010-03-31 08:08:52 pm

i am approaching chapter 11, and as soon as i am done with the game i will assist with the speed run. i hope nobody has said this before (i wont look until i am finished with the game for fear of spoilers), but i beat chapter 8 fighting only the 2 bosses at the end (no random enemies), and it seems like lots of the game can be done the same way. another discovery i found was at the end of chapter 7

******spoilers for chapter 7*******

at the end after psicom invades hopes estate, there is a small area with 2 groups of enemies and a save point. if you kill the enemies and walk around the area they respawn. if you attack the group of enemies to the left (right by the cutscene marker) then you can have what i have found to be the greatest place to grind experience so far. most of the fights i have found in chapter 9 (i may have missed something as i am wanting to get straight to 11 for more grinding), have taken 2-3 minutes and give 7-8 hundred experience. now this place, takes 40 seconds at most for a mostly upgraded crystarium (at that time) team to kill, gives 160 xp per fight, and you can start the fight again within 10 seconds of ending it. i got 10,000 xp an hour from doing that fight. so if there is a point where we need to grind experience, that might be a good spot.

sorry if this stuff is old, but i dont want to spoil myself

i am approaching chapter 11, and as soon as i am done with the game i will assist with the speed run. i hope nobody has said this before (i wont look until i am finished with the game for fear of spoilers), but i beat chapter 8 fighting only the 2 bosses at the end (no random enemies), and it seems like lots of the game can be done the same way. another discovery i found was at the end of chapter 7

******spoilers for chapter 7*******

at the end after psicom invades hopes estate, there is a small area with 2 groups of enemies and a save point. if you kill the enemies and walk around the area they respawn. if you attack the group of enemies to the left (right by the cutscene marker) then you can have what i have found to be the greatest place to grind experience so far. most of the fights i have found in chapter 9 (i may have missed something as i am wanting to get straight to 11 for more grinding), have taken 2-3 minutes and give 7-8 hundred experience. now this place, takes 40 seconds at most for a mostly upgraded crystarium (at that time) team to kill, gives 160 xp per fight, and you can start the fight again within 10 seconds of ending it. i got 10,000 xp an hour from doing that fight. so if there is a point where we need to grind experience, that might be a good spot.

sorry if this stuff is old, but i dont want to spoil myself

ventuz

2010-04-01 11:02:36 am

Null

I think they're just there for people whenever they get stuck, but I don't think they'll be any use for speedrun.

ShinerCCC

2010-04-01 12:52:59 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

imo crystarium should be avoided as much as possible. It takes a long time driving the little Mario Kart all around in circles. Speedruns of RPGs are less about grinding and number crunching, they're more about abusing breakable skills or glitches.

Arrow

2010-04-02 12:03:02 am

Now a hit show on the CW

Finally beat the game (decided to do as many of the missions as I could before attempting the last boss). As soon as I wrap up the achievements, I may try some practice speed runs to help contribute to this topic. For the crystarium, since the optimal run is probably not going to have a lot of CP to spare, I think points are primarily going to be spent getting the essential abilities (like Launch for Coms, Haste for Sazh/Hope, elemental weakness spells for boss fights, and Death for Vanille). Speaking of Death, I'm really curious about how many bosses are vulnerable to it. I doubt many of the main, chapter-ending bosses would be, but mini-bosses like Jabberwocky/Bandersnatch, Tiamat, and all the non-skippable non-boss fights...maybe. It's an extremely low chance, but that's what segmenting is for, after all Smiley

You could also have Vanille equip the Belladonna Wand (or even the upgraded Malboro Wand) to increase the chance, but again, since we're already going to be manipulating luck, it may not be worth it.

Aside from that wand, I don't think any of the weapons are worth upgrading. Components would be better spent upgrading accessories. Some of the essential (or at least extremely useful ones):
Twenty-sided Die - Random chance to nullify damage. Could be extremely useful in a segmented run, and can be upgraded from any of the elemental charms (a few of which are found in not-too-out-of-the-way chests). Downside is that it requires a Mnar Stone to upgrade, which I think can only be found as mission rewards or from purchasing for 60,000 gil. I don't even know if a speed run would obtain that much money without going out of the way for chests/farming. On the plus side, there's not really anything else worth spending money on in a speed run, except maybe deceptisols (which aren't available until late game anyway).
Tetradic Tiara - Casts Protect, Shell, Veil, and Vigilance at the start of battle (basically a perma-Aegisol), but only lasts for a few turns. Upgraded from Tetradic Crown with Scarletite (which are rare drops from the Cieth towards the end of the game).
Sprint Shoes - Auto-haste at the start of battle; would pretty much eliminate the need for Syns in most encounters. The only problem is that I'm not sure if there's a way to get this (or the Hermes Sandals that upgrade into this) outside of missions.
Aurora Scarf - Assuming that equipping everyone with Sprint Shoes isn't an option, this is probably our next best bet. Wearer starts with a full ATB gauge - perfect for the hasting Syn (or Death-casting Vanille). Upgraded from Whistlewind Scarf - at least one can be found in a chest, and they can also be purchased for a mere 1000 gil from Moogleworks.
Black Belt/Rune Bracelet/Royal Armlet and their upgraded forms - Obvious.
Remaining accessory slots can be filled out with bangles, status/elemental resisting items, or damage increasing items as each fight necessitates.

Quote:

-goddess' favor fully upgraded dismantles into ribbon+extra crap (i think...) the item that turns into GF is obtained relatively early, ribbon can give you 25% resistance to status ailments (includes death) fully upgraded, that plus 2 cherub's crowns on lightning is a sure-fire anti-death on orphan's first form vs his 1 hit KO ability unless you're just extremely unlucky.

I don't think stacking death resistance is necessary. Since this will be segmented, you should just keep restarting until you get lucky Smiley

Quote:

-Lightning = ravager (army of one = amazing)

Is using Army of One (or any of the other character-unique abilities) really worth it? Whenever I tried it, I wasn't too impressed with the results. Are there certain types of fights that it works better on than others? One thing I know for sure is that it will add a lot of time to the run (because of the slow motion animations), so that alone makes me question its usefulness.

Finally beat the game (decided to do as many of the missions as I could before attempting the last boss). As soon as I wrap up the achievements, I may try some practice speed runs to help contribute to this topic. For the crystarium, since the optimal run is probably not going to have a lot of CP to spare, I think points are primarily going to be spent getting the essential abilities (like Launch for Coms, Haste for Sazh/Hope, elemental weakness spells for boss fights, and Death for Vanille). Speaking of Death, I'm really curious about how many bosses are vulnerable to it. I doubt many of the main, chapter-ending bosses would be, but mini-bosses like Jabberwocky/Bandersnatch, Tiamat, and all the non-skippable non-boss fights...maybe. It's an extremely low chance, but that's what segmenting is for, after all :) You could also have Vanille equip the Belladonna Wand (or even the upgraded Malboro Wand) to increase the chance, but again, since we're already going to be manipulating luck, it may not be worth it.

Aside from that wand, I don't think any of the weapons are worth upgrading. Components would be better spent upgrading accessories. Some of the essential (or at least extremely useful ones):
Twenty-sided Die - Random chance to nullify damage. Could be [i]extremely[/i] useful in a segmented run, and can be upgraded from any of the elemental charms (a few of which are found in not-too-out-of-the-way chests). Downside is that it requires a Mnar Stone to upgrade, which I think can only be found as mission rewards or from purchasing for 60,000 gil. I don't even know if a speed run would obtain that much money without going out of the way for chests/farming. On the plus side, there's not really anything else worth spending money on in a speed run, except maybe deceptisols (which aren't available until late game anyway).
Tetradic Tiara - Casts Protect, Shell, Veil, and Vigilance at the start of battle (basically a perma-Aegisol), but only lasts for a few turns. Upgraded from Tetradic Crown with Scarletite (which are rare drops from the Cieth towards the end of the game).
Sprint Shoes - Auto-haste at the start of battle; would pretty much eliminate the need for Syns in most encounters. The only problem is that I'm not sure if there's a way to get this (or the Hermes Sandals that upgrade into this) outside of missions.
Aurora Scarf - Assuming that equipping everyone with Sprint Shoes isn't an option, this is probably our next best bet. Wearer starts with a full ATB gauge - perfect for the hasting Syn (or Death-casting Vanille). Upgraded from Whistlewind Scarf - at least one can be found in a chest, and they can also be purchased for a mere 1000 gil from Moogleworks.
Black Belt/Rune Bracelet/Royal Armlet and their upgraded forms - Obvious.
Remaining accessory slots can be filled out with bangles, status/elemental resisting items, or damage increasing items as each fight necessitates.

[quote]-goddess' favor fully upgraded dismantles into ribbon+extra crap (i think...) the item that turns into GF is obtained relatively early, ribbon can give you 25% resistance to status ailments (includes death) fully upgraded, that plus 2 cherub's crowns on lightning is a sure-fire anti-death on orphan's first form vs his 1 hit KO ability unless you're just extremely unlucky.[/quote]
I don't think stacking death resistance is necessary. Since this will be segmented, you should just keep restarting until you get lucky :)

[quote]-Lightning = ravager (army of one = amazing)[/quote]
Is using Army of One (or any of the other character-unique abilities) really worth it? Whenever I tried it, I wasn't too impressed with the results. Are there certain types of fights that it works better on than others? One thing I know for sure is that it will add a lot of time to the run (because of the slow motion animations), so that alone makes me question its usefulness.

AA

2010-04-02 03:06:09 pm

I have only really explored Sahz's Cold Blood, but I think Army of One works the same way. Against a staggered target, they build chain ridiculously efficiently, and you can use them and then immediately do a Paradigm Shift to completely skip all Paradigm Shift animation and to continue building chain with one character while the others begin their Commando assault (I ran RAV/RAV/RAV to build chain, staggered, used Cold Blood, and immediately switched to COM/COM/COM while Cold Blood executed).

Vanille's Death is obviously very useful in forced fights in chapter 12, maybe chapter 13 too.

Sovereign Fist (Snow) is not very useful. Neither is Highwind (Fang). I don't know about Hope's weird one; I've never explored it.

VorpalEdge

2010-04-02 03:41:08 pm

welcome to the machine

Highwind does pretty good damage if you use it at the end of a stagger. It's certainly not something I'd go out of my way to get, though.

Gorge express

2010-04-03 01:25:28 am

By the time you finally get highwind, its damage is really limited by the damage cap until you get genji gloves. Also getting the ultimate skills for anyone would probably take some time.
IIRC you can get sprint shoes by dismantling a starred tetradic tiara(or was it crown? Whichever one has auto protect, shell, etc..). That's pretty late in the game though, and since the haste from them doesn't last very long you probably won't be able to finish any late game encounters with.

Cold blood or not, Sahz is a great choice for the character you control in ch10 onward. It takes a while to get haste for Hope, so he may never even get it in a speedrun. He also has the 2nd highest hp and his blitz attack is very powerful on big enemies. A decent ravager too, since he gets cold blood and some -strike skills. Note that alternating -strike and magic skills raises the stagger gauge faster than just sticking to magic or strikes kills. Vanille is another must because of sab, until Fang gets the same skills but i dont know if that will happen in a speedrun. deprotect, deshell, and imperil are excellent. Especially imperil, which makes the enemy weak to all 4 elemental attacks. That means all ravager attacks will raise the chain gauge twice as much and commandos buffed with -en skills will do much more damage.

As for the 3rd character, i guess it depends on the situation. Hope has protect for hard fights, and Lightning is the best ravager in the game and probably a better commando than Sahz. Fang is the best commando but that's all she has going for her until you get deprotect,deshell, and imperil in her sab class. Can't seen sentinel getting any use. As for Snow, he's similar to Light but a slightly better com while a worse ravager and sentinel instead of medic.

I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but random: instant chain is going to be a must for a segmented run which is why i feel bad for anyone who decided to run this game. It's much cheaper than death(both in cost and effectiveness since it works on bosses) but requires way too much luck. But with save points every 5 minutes and the items required to get the skill being so cheap, it's hard to justify not using it.

By the time you finally get highwind, its damage is really limited by the damage cap until you get genji gloves.  Also getting the ultimate skills for anyone would probably take some time.
 IIRC you can get sprint shoes by dismantling a starred tetradic tiara(or was it crown?  Whichever one has auto protect, shell, etc..).  That's pretty late in the game though, and since the haste from them doesn't last very long you probably won't be able to finish any late game encounters with.

Cold blood or not, Sahz is a great choice for the character you control in ch10 onward.  It takes a while to get haste for Hope, so he may never even get it in a speedrun.  He also has the 2nd highest hp and his blitz attack is very powerful on big enemies.  A decent ravager too, since he gets cold blood and some -strike skills.  Note that alternating -strike and magic skills raises the stagger gauge faster than just sticking to magic or strikes kills.  Vanille is another must because of sab, until Fang gets the same skills but i dont know if that will happen in a speedrun.  deprotect, deshell, and imperil are excellent.  Especially imperil, which makes the enemy weak to all 4 elemental attacks.  That means all ravager attacks will raise the chain gauge twice as much and commandos buffed with -en skills will do much more damage.

As for the 3rd character, i guess it depends on the situation.  Hope has protect for hard fights, and Lightning is the best ravager in the game and probably a better commando than Sahz.  Fang is the best commando but that's all she has going for her until you get deprotect,deshell, and imperil in her sab class.  Can't seen sentinel getting any use.  As for Snow, he's similar to Light but a slightly better com while a worse ravager and sentinel instead of medic.

I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but random: instant chain is going to be a must for a segmented run which is why i feel bad for anyone who decided to run this game.  It's much cheaper than death(both in cost and effectiveness since it works on bosses) but requires way too much luck.  But with save points every 5 minutes and the items required to get the skill being so cheap, it's hard to justify not using it.

Arrow

2010-04-03 06:52:57 am

Now a hit show on the CW

The more research I do, the more I think that this speed run is going to be a nightmare to plan out. The synthesized abilities are definitely important, and a factor I did not even consider in my previous post. Random: Instant Chain is definitely a must, and not too difficult to come by. ATB Rate boost can easily be picked up by Lightning, Sazh, or Hope, since the runner will most likely already be using Aurora Scarves. High HP Power Surge is easy to get, even early in the game...would be curious to know if the damage boost is worth the potential sacrifice of more useful accessories. The various damage reducing bonuses are easy to achieve, although probably not worth going out of the way for.

Besides from the dismantling of Tetradic Crowns/Tiaras for Sprint Shoes (which may not be worth it for the reasons stated in the previous post), I also figured out a convoluted way to get an extra Deceptisol late in the game if there's need for one: Survivalist Catalogs can be dismantled into them. Now, there's no way to get the catalog outside of missions, except that you can get a Champion's Badge from a chest in chapter 12, which can then be upgraded to the catalog with a Perovskite, which shouldn't be hard to come by from either chests or drops. Also, Doctor's Codes, besides from being dismantled into Elixirs (which may be useful in their own right), can also be dismantled into Fortisols and Aegisols, if needed.

This video makes me wonder if OOB glitching might be possible.

The more research I do, the more I think that this speed run is going to be a nightmare to plan out. The synthesized abilities are definitely important, and a factor I did not even consider in my previous post. Random: Instant Chain is definitely a must, and not too difficult to come by. ATB Rate boost can easily be picked up by Lightning, Sazh, or Hope, since the runner will most likely already be using Aurora Scarves. High HP Power Surge is easy to get, even early in the game...would be curious to know if the damage boost is worth the potential sacrifice of more useful accessories. The various damage reducing bonuses are easy to achieve, although probably not worth going out of the way for.

Besides from the dismantling of Tetradic Crowns/Tiaras for Sprint Shoes (which may not be worth it for the reasons stated in the previous post), I also figured out a convoluted way to get an extra Deceptisol late in the game if there's need for one: Survivalist Catalogs can be dismantled into them. Now, there's no way to get the catalog outside of missions, except that you [i]can[/i] get a Champion's Badge from a chest in chapter 12, which can then be upgraded to the catalog with a Perovskite, which shouldn't be hard to come by from either chests or drops. Also, Doctor's Codes, besides from being dismantled into Elixirs (which may be useful in their own right), can also be dismantled into Fortisols and Aegisols, if needed.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmCsgYFpNQM]This video[/url] makes me wonder if OOB glitching might be possible.

Zealie

2010-04-06 04:00:03 pm

Finally completed the game so I thought I'd drop by and see whats being discussed Smiley

I've been skipping over some posts so I'm sorry if it's already been mentioned (or even considered common knowledge), but I've never seen anyone do it (in youtube vids) or see anyone ever say it.

Anyway, if you select a certain combination of abilities to perform and want to perform the exact same combo you just have to press the right d-pad button and the 'ability' bar will turn into a 'repeat' bar and he'll just repeat the command you've given before.
If you do auto-attack in between the repeat still repeats the one you selected in the abilities bar, not the auto-attack.

Thought it might be usefull if you needed a certain combo to be done and had haste so you don't have to rapidly select etc.
Well as I said, not sure if it's common knowledge, but I found out when I was in chapter 13...

Also, anyone know how random random instant chain is?

Gorge express

2010-04-07 12:01:40 am

The ability repeat thing is very common knowledge.. i noticed it the first time i used ability instead of autoattack which was in like chapter 1.

random:instant chain's chance to work is extremely low. Low enough that it should probably be ignored for the sake of the runner's sanity. It's one thing to restart until it takes effect at least once in the entire battle, but having to restart everytime it doesn't work in the first like 15 seconds so you can get the best time? Screw that. Leave that to the Tool assisted runs, although those are going to be a veerryy long time from now.

Arrow

2010-04-07 12:48:03 am

Now a hit show on the CW

Quote from ZaibirQuild:

If you do auto-attack in between the repeat still repeats the one you selected in the abilities bar, not the auto-attack.

Not only that, but if you switch paradigms, it will remember your last ability chain for each class. For instance, if you start as a Syn and cast haste, then switch to Com for a while, and then switch back to Syn, Haste will still be your Repeat command. Or, if you start as a Com and then switch to a different paradigm in which your leader is still a Com, your Repeat will be the same as it was for the previous paradigm. Definitely could be useful for getting specific attacks off when ATB canceling is involved.

As for Random: Instant Chain, it seems to have somewhere around a 1 in 200 chance of working, and that's per damage tick, not per queued ability. I spent a few hours testing it with different abilities (primarily using Sazh) against an Adamanchelid. Abilities that hit multiple times (such as Blitz) will proc it much sooner on average than abilities that only hit once (like Fire). But regardless of the ability, the average number of damage ticks required is between 100-150. Procs can occur on the very first attack, as I had this happen at least twice (as well as a few second hit procs). Cold Blood, strangely, had a much lower proc percentage than all the other abilities I tested, requiring over 200 hits on average before success (the ability hits something like 12-15 times each use).

I also tested using an additional accessory for my Synthesized Ability bonus, my reasoning being that if ATB Rate Boost increases the bonus based on how many accessories with the bonus you have equipped, maybe having three items instead of two for Instant Chain would increase its chance of working. My results were inconclusive. Blitz seemed to proc it much sooner on average, while normal Attack took longer on average. Chances are pretty good that this means there's no difference between having two or three items equipped, but a lot more testing would need to be done to be certain.

How much Instant Chain should be utilized is at the runner's discretion, obviously. If a segment already involves a lot of luck with a battle at the very end, I can understand not wanting to have to deal with the randomness at that point. On the other hand, if you have a save point immediately before a boss, I would expect the runner to try to get it to proc within a few attacks at the start. The immediate stagger can trivialize boss fights that might otherwise be nigh impossible at the low CP levels I anticipate.

One final thing I tested: Deceptisol's "buff" (as well as the other shrouds) lasts for 30 seconds before wearing off. Might have already been known, but just throwing it out there Smiley

[quote="ZaibirQuild"]
If you do auto-attack in between the repeat still repeats the one you selected in the abilities bar, not the auto-attack.[/quote]

Not only that, but if you switch paradigms, it will remember your last ability chain for each class. For instance, if you start as a Syn and cast haste, then switch to Com for a while, and then switch back to Syn, Haste will still be your Repeat command. Or, if you start as a Com and then switch to a different paradigm in which your leader is still a Com, your Repeat will be the same as it was for the previous paradigm. Definitely could be useful for getting specific attacks off when ATB canceling is involved.

As for Random: Instant Chain, it seems to have somewhere around a 1 in 200 chance of working, and that's per damage tick, not per queued ability. I spent a few hours testing it with different abilities (primarily using Sazh) against an Adamanchelid. Abilities that hit multiple times (such as Blitz) will proc it much sooner on average than abilities that only hit once (like Fire). But regardless of the ability, the average number of damage ticks required is between 100-150. Procs [i]can[/i] occur on the very first attack, as I had this happen at least twice (as well as a few second hit procs). Cold Blood, strangely, had a much lower proc percentage than all the other abilities I tested, requiring over 200 hits on average before success (the ability hits something like 12-15 times each use).

I also tested using an additional accessory for my Synthesized Ability bonus, my reasoning being that if ATB Rate Boost increases the bonus based on how many accessories with the bonus you have equipped, maybe having three items instead of two for Instant Chain would increase its chance of working. My results were inconclusive. Blitz seemed to proc it much sooner on average, while normal Attack took longer on average. Chances are pretty good that this means there's no difference between having two or three items equipped, but a lot more testing would need to be done to be certain.

How much Instant Chain should be utilized is at the runner's discretion, obviously. If a segment already involves a lot of luck with a battle at the very end, I can understand not wanting to have to deal with the randomness at that point. On the other hand, if you have a save point immediately before a boss, I would expect the runner to try to get it to proc within a few attacks at the start. The immediate stagger can trivialize boss fights that might otherwise be nigh impossible at the low CP levels I anticipate.

One final thing I tested: Deceptisol's "buff" (as well as the other shrouds) lasts for 30 seconds before wearing off. Might have already been known, but just throwing it out there :)

AA

2010-04-07 03:25:04 am

You can stretch one Deceptisol indefinitely anyway. Just activate it, run for close to the time limit, get in a fight, and then immediately retry. You'll be outside the battle and get the Deceptisol back (works with Fortisol and Aegisol too, but I'm not sure how it's useful with those).

I'm not sure if the time loss for this is worth it, but it's worth keeping in mind.

Gorge express

2010-04-07 02:15:46 pm

The problem with instant chain is that there is pretty much a save point right before every boss so if the runner decides to take advantage of it, they would have to restart each boss many times to get it to proc.

VorpalEdge

2010-04-07 03:09:26 pm

welcome to the machine

From... some guy on gamefaqs, partway down this thread:

Quote:

Random: Instant Chain has a 0.5% chance of activating after each hit and will not work on enemies above level 49.
This includes ALL bosses and a few of the marks such as Mission 51 and 64.

Arrow

Edit history:

Arrow: 2010-04-07 04:12:49 pm

2010-04-07 04:02:37 pm

Now a hit show on the CW

Haha, I've been using that thread a lot, never actually bothered to read any of the replies though. Glad to see that my testing was accurate (1 in 200 = 0.5%). Looking through the Enemy Intel, the poster does seem to be correct that all bosses (even the super early ones like Anima) are above level 49, if that is in fact the magic number. It's definitely something I'd want to test myself before writing it off as an option completely. Also, there's still a lot of forced encounters later in the game in which Instant Chain would be viable (Adamanchilid, Humbabas, Jabberwocky/Bandersnatch, Sanctum Templars). It might have a chance in working against Eidolons as well, since they don't have a listed level, but I won't cross my fingers.

Anyway, if Instant Chain is out for most of the run, then High HP Power Boost and ATB Rate Boost are probably the next most important abilities to shoot for.

EDIT: Also from that thread - High HP Power Surge increases your damage by 20%, Low HP increases your damage by 50%.

Haha, I've been using that thread a lot, never actually bothered to read any of the replies though. Glad to see that my testing was accurate (1 in 200 = 0.5%). Looking through the Enemy Intel, the poster does seem to be correct that all bosses (even the super early ones like Anima) are above level 49, if that is in fact the magic number. It's definitely something I'd want to test myself before writing it off as an option completely. Also, there's still a lot of forced encounters later in the game in which Instant Chain would be viable (Adamanchilid, Humbabas, Jabberwocky/Bandersnatch, Sanctum Templars). It [i]might[/i] have a chance in working against Eidolons as well, since they don't have a listed level, but I won't cross my fingers.

Anyway, if Instant Chain is out for most of the run, then High HP Power Boost and ATB Rate Boost are probably the next most important abilities to shoot for.

EDIT: Also from that thread - High HP Power Surge increases your damage by 20%, Low HP increases your damage by 50%.