Final Fantasy X

ShadowLaguna

2008-11-16 03:59:04 am

THE GAME!!

Quote from mikwuyma:

Tidus whines and cries too much. This is what a speedrun would look like

:(:(:'(:(:) Huh?

I like you. When the world is mine, your death shall be quick and painless!

HalfMillennium

2008-11-18 03:17:56 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Just out of interest, how much is actual gameplay as opposed to cut-scenes?

I'd be very impressed if you did pull this off.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2008-11-20 02:29:13 am

2008-11-20 02:13:04 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from HalfMillennium:

Just out of interest, how much is actual gameplay as opposed to cut-scenes?

I have no idea, but I would guess at least half of it is cutscenes.

Anyway, I've done another run up to Macalania to test self-destruct on a bunch of bosses, and this is what I've found:

Chocobo Eater: Can save a little bit of time, but ultimately not worth it because I have to refill Kimahri's overdrive before Gui (which takes longer the more HP I give him).

Gui: Saves a lot of time, especially if I boost his HP as much as possible. If self-destruct criticals, then I only need to use one aeon overdrive (Valefor) to kill it.

Crawler: Didn't help here at all. By the time Rikku gets her overdrive, I've damaged it enough that her overdrive will kill it.

Seymour (1st): Saves a lot of time by making Seymour summon Anima right away (since I haven't boosted Tidus's strength).

So I'm going to use self-destruct against Gui and the first Seymour. The only other battle I can think of where self-destruct might be useful is Natus, but I'm pretty sure that my strategy using Quartet and a water gem is better (although harder).

Edit: I forgot about Wendigo. Self-destruct works well against him too, and I'll have to use it since I gave the HP sphere to Kimahri instead of saving it for this battle for Rikku to mix chaos grenade.

[quote="HalfMillennium"]
Just out of interest, how much is actual gameplay as opposed to cut-scenes?
[/quote]
I have no idea, but I would guess at least half of it is cutscenes.

Anyway, I've done another run up to Macalania to test self-destruct on a bunch of bosses, and this is what I've found:

Chocobo Eater: Can save a little bit of time, but ultimately not worth it because I have to refill Kimahri's overdrive before Gui (which takes longer the more HP I give him).

Gui: Saves a lot of time, especially if I boost his HP as much as possible.  If self-destruct criticals, then I only need to use one aeon overdrive (Valefor) to kill it.

Crawler: Didn't help here at all.  By the time Rikku gets her overdrive, I've damaged it enough that her overdrive will kill it.

Seymour (1st): Saves a lot of time by making Seymour summon Anima right away (since I haven't boosted Tidus's strength).

So I'm going to use self-destruct against Gui and the first Seymour.  The only other battle I can think of where self-destruct might be useful is Natus, but I'm pretty sure that my strategy using Quartet and a water gem is better (although harder).

Edit: I forgot about Wendigo.  Self-destruct works well against him too, and I'll have to use it since I gave the HP sphere to Kimahri instead of saving it for this battle for Rikku to mix chaos grenade.

Gaverion

2008-11-20 11:02:26 am

I am amazed by how effective he was on gui, how much HP did he have? Crawler also surprises me but since you are using it on Seymour it is definitely worth saving it.

Also, what is your current strategy for wendy?

I would think if you don't use chaos grenade followed by Shiva's OD (guessing) that throwing a petrify grenade to kill the gaurdians then mixing a lightning marble + Level 2 key sphere (you should have 2 from Spherimorph) followed by Shiva's OD should kill it. Stealing a second petrify grenade while a pain, should be much faster than charging Kimahri's overdrive.

As for Self-destruct on Chocobo Eater, learn firebreath from a Dual horn to charge your OD quickly. I know they appear in the area right after you get off the chocobo, before the first save sphere, maybe after as well, but I don't think so. Doing this however means a new strategy for home is required unfortunately. I'm not sure if the turn order would work out favorably but swapping Kimahri in for Tidus then lancet to learn Aqua breath followed by a stone breath should do the trick. Alternately you could steal yet another petrify grenade or get your OD while stealing a Chocobo Wing or Smoke bombs. Speaking of which do you have a better way of dealing with the Bevele fights than KADFC?

I am amazed by how effective he was on gui, how much HP did he have? Crawler also surprises me but since you are using it on Seymour it is definitely worth saving it.

Also, what is your current strategy for wendy?

I would think if you don't use chaos grenade followed by Shiva's OD (guessing) that throwing a petrify grenade to kill the gaurdians then mixing a lightning marble + Level 2 key sphere (you should have 2 from Spherimorph) followed by Shiva's OD should kill it. Stealing a second petrify grenade while a pain, should be much faster than charging Kimahri's overdrive.

As for Self-destruct on Chocobo Eater, learn firebreath from a Dual horn to charge your OD quickly. I know they appear in the area right after you get off the chocobo, before the first save sphere, maybe after as well, but I don't think so. Doing this however means a new strategy for home is required unfortunately. I'm not sure if the turn order would work out favorably but swapping Kimahri in for Tidus then lancet to learn Aqua breath followed by a stone breath should do the trick. Alternately you could steal yet another petrify grenade or get your OD while stealing a Chocobo Wing or Smoke bombs. Speaking of  which do you have a better way of dealing with the Bevele fights than KADFC?

Essentia

2008-11-20 12:09:27 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

When I wrote my previous post, I knew there was another reason for not using self-destruct on Chocobo Eater, but I couldn't think of it at the time. Now I remember: I wanted Kimahri to get the AP so he could have more HP against Gui. He had 1344 HP for Gui; I gave him the HP sphere from Luca, and also the HP nodes to the right and left (past the agility node). He was able to do 8000 damage when self-destruct when critical.

For Wendigo, my strategy used to be chaos grenade and Shiva's OD. Now my plan was to use self-destruct (hope it goes critical) and then Shiva's OD. I'll have to think about using a petrify grenade instead. It probably would be faster than filling Kimahri's overdrive. It might be a pain, but hoping for self-destruct to go critical is a pain as well. Wink

As for Bevelle, I haven't found any better strategy. There's no time to fill Rikku's overdrive, and smoke bombs are really easy to get on Bikanel and work pretty well.

HalfMillennium

2008-11-23 05:18:02 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Might it be quicker to play the Advanced Sphere Grid? I haven't done it yet, but it might be. The opportunity to have seevral characters with similar abilities might be quite handy.

On a related topic, could someone verify whether or not a PAL version run would be accepted?

Carcinogen

2008-11-23 09:06:11 am

Due to the other sphere grid, the answer is more than likely a yes.

Gaverion

2008-11-23 01:39:03 pm

Actually after thinking on this for a bit I think the expert grid would be worse due to the lack of HP for Kimarhi. Early game Steal/use aren't that needed as bosses are quickly killed with aeon OD's/self destruct. Later on you have the abilities anyway so it isn't adding anything there either.

HalfMillennium

2008-11-23 02:23:57 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from Carcinogen:

Due to the other sphere grid, the answer is more than likely a yes.

The only problem is, the PAL version runs more slowly than the NTSC version. I don't know if a direct comparison is possible, but if, for example, an NTSC run would take 11 hours, a PAL run would take (assuming a direct comparison is available) 13 hours and 12 minutes. That's nearly double the standard 7 hour limit. Naturally, if the Advanced Sphere Grid could improve something, it would be shorter, but if it was a Standard Sphere Grid run on the PAL version, would that be acceptable?

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2008-11-23 03:18:09 pm

2008-11-23 03:09:29 pm

The Standard sphere grid on FFX v2* isn't the same as FFX v1's grid. For one, it has the Extract series of abilities added.

If you really give a meh about the benefits of playing v2, you want FFX International instead - all of the pros, none of the cons. Assuming you have a Jp PS2, swap method, mod chip, or ESR with a burned disc, of course.

*
v1 = FFX (Jp), FFX (US)
v2 = FFX (Eu), FFX International (Jp)

Carcinogen

2008-11-23 07:19:20 pm

Quote from HalfMillennium:

Quote from Carcinogen:

Due to the other sphere grid, the answer is more than likely a yes.

The only problem is, the PAL version runs more slowly than the NTSC version. I don't know if a direct comparison is possible, but if, for example, an NTSC run would take 11 hours, a PAL run would take (assuming a direct comparison is available) 13 hours and 12 minutes. That's nearly double the standard 7 hour limit. Naturally, if the Advanced Sphere Grid could improve something, it would be shorter, but if it was a Standard Sphere Grid run on the PAL version, would that be acceptable?

That doesn't matter, because PAL vs. NTSC != different gameplay.

The different sphere grid could change MUCH of how the run is done. ;-p

moooh

2008-11-24 03:24:31 am

Exoray

If there's not any particular big differences with gameplay they would just factor in the speed difference of PAL vs NTSC to have them in the same time space (assuming the clock does not also run slower). If there were significant enough differences they would just end up being treated as separate categories anyways.

bmn

2008-11-24 01:03:33 pm

Wouldn't work; you'd also have to factor loading times, which would be about the same on all versions, into it.

HalfMillennium

2008-11-24 03:03:51 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from moooh:

If there's not any particular big differences with gameplay they would just factor in the speed difference of PAL vs NTSC to have them in the same time space (assuming the clock does not also run slower). If there were significant enough differences they would just end up being treated as separate categories anyways.

I'm not talking about the game timer. The question is whether a PAL version run would be accepted because of its real time length. I've already said a PAL run would probably be about 13 hours - maybe slightly less - at least, that's with a few minutes taken off the direct conversion for loading screens. The guideline for SDA is only 7 hours. 10.5 is a stretch. Would 13 be allowed?

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2008-11-24 03:50:21 pm

2008-11-24 03:26:40 pm

If I had to give my opinion, I'd say that since it's a long run, being lowered-speed PAL would do no favours. I'd expect SDA to accept a PAL run only if it was significantly faster than an NTSC run or there was no NTSC run at the time.

But I don't speak for SDA. Your best bet would be to go to the horse's mouth.

If I was you wanting to speedrun FFX, I wouldn't go for the UK version unless I had no choice at all. I recall that, when I realised International had English built-in, I was pretty much getting a hold of it and converting my save right away. The speed difference is quite profound, and goes a long way to reducing frustration when playing, and having no black lines is quite nice.

There's not much stopping you from going that route - you can get it new for less than $40 even from Play Asia if you have a PS2 that plays legit Jp games by whatever method. Otherwise there's the aforementioned memory card soft mod that lets you play copies that have been patched to ID as DVD-Video. I'm pretty sure that it's still legal to have a single backup copy of a game you own.

I know I sound like a tacky salesman, feel free to ignore, but that's what I think, at least.

If I had to give my opinion, I'd say that since it's a long run, being lowered-speed PAL would do no favours. I'd expect SDA to accept a PAL run only if it was significantly faster than an NTSC run or there was no NTSC run at the time.

But I don't speak for SDA. Your best bet would be to go to the horse's mouth.

If I was you wanting to speedrun FFX, I wouldn't go for the UK version unless I had no choice at all. I recall that, when I realised International had English built-in, I was pretty much getting a hold of it and converting my save right away. The speed difference is quite profound, and goes a long way to reducing frustration when playing, and having no black lines is quite nice.

There's not much stopping you from going that route - you can get it new for less than $40 even from Play Asia if you have a PS2 that plays legit Jp games by whatever method. Otherwise there's the aforementioned memory card soft mod that lets you play copies that have been patched to ID as DVD-Video. I'm pretty sure that it's still legal to have a single backup copy of a game you own.

I know I sound like a tacky salesman, feel free to ignore, but that's what I think, at least.

Essentia

2008-12-04 09:45:11 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I'm planning to pick up a DVD recorder tonight, so this run should get underway soon.

One question: Does anyone know if Oblitzerator can drop a Thunder Ball for Wakka? I tried to get one for quite a while, and almost every time it dropped something for Tidus, Lulu, or Kimahri (the only people in the party at that time), although I'm pretty sure I've seen it drop something for Yuna. If I could get a Thunderstrike weapon for Wakka from it, I wouldn't need to go out of the way to pick one up on the Mi'ihen Highroad.

Carcinogen

2008-12-04 10:08:17 am

Does this mean you're going to upload your progress to YouTube as well, or are you going to leave us in suspense? ;-p

Thomaz

2008-12-04 04:26:18 pm

Catchin' them all

Actually, as far as I know, yes, I do think you can get a Thunder Ball from Oblitz. I'm not sure though. I remember getting it in my WONCNARNENNE challenge, but maybe I got it from Sin battle before Kilika.

Sorry, I don't remember. Sad

Essentia

2008-12-04 10:17:59 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Thanks, Thomaz. I'd really like to get the thunder ball before the blitzball game, because it will help against the Sahagins right after that. I'll keep trying

Quote from Carcinogen:

Does this mean you're going to upload your progress to YouTube as well, or are you going to leave us in suspense? ;-p

I probably won't put videos up, because I'd like the run to be a surprise, and also because I have no idea how to encode stuff. Tongue

I might put up blooper videos as I go along, though, if people are interested and if I have anything worthwhile.

Gaverion

2008-12-04 11:07:35 pm

Why get a drop for Wakka and not Tidus? Kilika might have lightning strike for Wakka though it might be ice strike, can't fully remember.

I came up with a few questions,

1. When are you using your stat spheres? I think I've figured out most of them but I want to be sure.
2. How many mana spheres are you using?
3. Do you kill randoms on the way too leaving Besaid? (I do for the mana and agility spheres at minimal time loss)

Also I want to see vids T_T

p.s. on my second test run and I'm stopped at leaving Besaid... again!

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2008-12-04 11:36:37 pm

2008-12-04 11:21:36 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from Gaverion:

Why get a drop for Wakka and not Tidus? Kilika might have lightning strike for Wakka though it might be ice strike, can't fully remember.

I came up with a few questions,

1. When are you using your stat spheres? I think I've figured out most of them but I want to be sure.
2. How many mana spheres are you using?
3. Do you kill randoms on the way too leaving Besaid? (I do for the mana and agility spheres at minimal time loss)

Also I want to see vids T_T

p.s. on my second test run and I'm stopped at leaving Besaid... again!

I get a drop for Wakka because he does significantly less damage against the Sahagins and Extractor than Tidus does. Tidus can kill the Sahagins in one hit, and I'm hoping that Wakka will be able to do that with thunder strike.

1. I'm not sure what you mean by stat spheres. Do you mean the blue spheres, like magic and strength spheres? If so, I give a strength and magic sphere to Yuna just before Chocobo Eater, the HP sphere to Kimahri just before Gui, and another magic sphere to Yuna just before Crawler (but is for the first Seymour battle).

2. I'm going off of memory right now, but I can check later to make sure. I believe I use 5 mana spheres for Yuna, 2 for Lulu, and 1 for Tidus (to increase his MP). Edit: I just checked, and I use 6 mana spheres for Yuna.

3. I don't get into any extra battles in Besaid besides the forced ones. I fight all of them except for the second Garuda. I do however fight two Ragoras in Kilika to fill aeon overdrives, which also give mana spheres, and I get speed spheres from the piranhas with Rikku and Wakka.

[quote="Gaverion"]
Why get a drop for Wakka and not Tidus? Kilika might have lightning strike for Wakka though it might be ice strike, can't fully remember.

I came up with a few questions,

1. When are you using your stat spheres? I think I've figured out most of them but I want to be sure.
2. How many mana spheres are you using? 
3. Do you kill randoms on the way too leaving Besaid? (I do for the mana and agility spheres at minimal time loss)

Also I want to see vids T_T

p.s. on my second test run and I'm stopped at leaving Besaid... again! 
[/quote]

I get a drop for Wakka because he does significantly less damage against the Sahagins and Extractor than Tidus does.  Tidus can kill the Sahagins in one hit, and I'm hoping that Wakka will be able to do that with thunder strike.

1.  I'm not sure what you mean by stat spheres.  Do you mean the blue spheres, like magic and strength spheres?  If so, I give a strength and magic sphere to Yuna just before Chocobo Eater, the HP sphere to Kimahri just before Gui, and another magic sphere to Yuna just before Crawler (but is for the first Seymour battle).

2.  I'm going off of memory right now, but I can check later to make sure.  I believe I use 5 mana spheres for Yuna, 2 for Lulu, and 1 for Tidus (to increase his MP).  [b]Edit:[/b] I just checked, and I use 6 mana spheres for Yuna.

3.  I don't get into any extra battles in Besaid besides the forced ones.  I fight all of them except for the second Garuda.  I do however fight two Ragoras in Kilika to fill aeon overdrives, which also give mana spheres, and I get speed spheres from the piranhas with Rikku and Wakka.

Gaverion

2008-12-05 01:06:20 am

Forgot about the second Garuda, I run from that too. I really have to recommend using the strength sphere on Tidus, if just to make the Extractor fight significantly faster. I'm not seeing how it helps Yuna. Also don't waste mana spheres on Lulu (though I'm sure you realized that on your own) If you think a couple more mana spheres would help you the chest in Kilika is quick and efficient. I'll check how many I used/had later.

Unless I missed something each chief requires 2 hits from either character so lightningstrike for Wakka would at best be equal to Tidus here. For Extractor, especially if you give Tidus the strength sphere like I recommend though its the same either way, you definitely want Tidus to have lightningstrike as it is better to have the higher value multiplied by 1.5 than the smaller one (Ie. 250*1.5 vs 110*1.5).

Essentia

2008-12-05 12:32:59 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

The strength sphere on Yuna was more helpful with previous strategies I had, where the aeons were attacking more. When I think about it, now it's really only useful against Isaaru's Bahamut, where it helps me to kill it just before it does 2 megaflares. If I give it to Tidus, it will really only help against Extractor; I'll have to look into how much it helps there.

Again, the mana spheres on Lulu were more helpful on Gui before I tried using self-destruct on it. I still think they might be worth it, though, especially since I don't have to go out of the way to get enough mana spheres, but I'll look at it again.

For the Sahagin chiefs, Tidus can kill them in one hit on my run. I think by that time I've activated the first two strength nodes on his path. It could save a lot of time if Wakka could also kill them in one hit. Since the Extractor fight goes pretty fast already anyway (I usually kill it just after it rises up a second time), I think more time could be saved by getting thunder strike for Wakka instead of Tidus.

The strength sphere on Yuna was more helpful with previous strategies I had, where the aeons were attacking more.  When I think about it, now it's really only useful against Isaaru's Bahamut, where it helps me to kill it just before it does 2 megaflares.  If I give it to Tidus, it will really only help against Extractor; I'll have to look into how much it helps there.

Again, the mana spheres on Lulu were more helpful on Gui before I tried using self-destruct on it.  I still think they might be worth it, though, especially since I don't have to go out of the way to get enough mana spheres, but I'll look at it again.

For the Sahagin chiefs, Tidus can kill them in one hit on my run.  I think by that time I've activated the first two strength nodes on his path.  It could save a lot of time if Wakka could also kill them in one hit.  Since the Extractor fight goes pretty fast already anyway (I usually kill it just after it rises up a second time), I think more time could be saved by getting thunder strike for Wakka instead of Tidus.

Carcinogen

2008-12-05 12:45:53 pm

Quote from Essentia:

I probably won't put videos up, because I'd like the run to be a surprise, and also because I have no idea how to encode stuff. Tongue

I might put up blooper videos as I go along, though, if people are interested and if I have anything worthwhile.

I don't either, but Anri-Chan takes it from the DVD and does it automatically, but it's slow and deleted chapters on the disc come back to haunt you. <_<

The easy way to do it (my personal method for uploading stuff to YouTube) is with a generic DVD ripper such as Xilisoft DVD Ripper, then use Windows Movie Maker. Takes me less than an hour to upload about an hour's worth of video to YouTube, editing and processing as I upload.

Just a bit of the ol' good-to-know. By all means though, if you want to keep it a surprise, go ahead. =D

Essentia

2008-12-05 03:02:24 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

That is good to know, thanks! Still, I'd rather spend more time actually working on the run instead of uploading it, if you know what I mean. Wink

But since it seems like a lot of people would like some videos, maybe I can upload certain parts, but not the whole thing.