Final Fantasy X

2008-09-21 03:51:36 am

THE GAME!!

Ah, but Tidus runs quite a bit slower in the PAL version i've noticed. Though it all depends what the timer is like in the PAL version, that might also be slower.

A 100% run!? I don't think I can bear the ending time!! Shocked

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2008-09-21 10:08:35 am

2008-09-21 09:53:56 am

PAL FFX in a nutshell, is FFX International with PAL resolution and frame rate, with slowdown proportional to frame rate. Tidus floats in the air when he runs.

Squaresoft pulled their finger out with FFX-2 (and subsequent games) and made the graphics work properly, but FFX is definitely slower for PAL.

The thing to understand about the speed difference between PAL and NTSC is that it's not necessarily the console that decides, though by default it will have the difference on every console that runs PAL or NTSC (including PS2). Old consoles are fully capable of running at the same speed if the game is programmed to do so; however, the pixel-perfect nature of 2D games of the time made it a bad idea in most cases to try to do that as then it would be impossible to bring skills like jumping at a particular pixel in Mario from NTSC to PAL and vice versa. Plus it takes more programming work to do it, and the general public at the time didn't have a clue there even was a speed difference, what with the magazine being the primary media for games at the time. Many/most later-gen games process the game at the same speed, but for some reason only known to the devs FFX isn't one of them. Might just be a case of unfamiliarity with the new console at the time.

Edit: If you want the benefits of FFX International, why not just get a hold of FFX International and use import-playing-method-of-your-choice? It's by far the superior version of the game, and you can switch it to English text as soon as you can use the menu.

PAL FFX in a nutshell, is FFX International with PAL resolution and frame rate, [i]with[/i] slowdown proportional to frame rate. Tidus floats in the air when he runs.

Squaresoft pulled their finger out with FFX-2 (and subsequent games) and made the graphics work properly, but FFX is definitely slower for PAL.

The thing to understand about the speed difference between PAL and NTSC is that it's not necessarily the console that decides, though by default it will have the difference on every console that runs PAL or NTSC (including PS2). Old consoles are fully capable of running at the same speed if the game is programmed to do so; however, the pixel-perfect nature of 2D games of the time made it a bad idea in most cases to try to do that as then it would be impossible to bring skills like jumping at a particular pixel in Mario from NTSC to PAL and vice versa. Plus it takes more programming work to do it, and the general public at the time didn't have a clue there even was a speed difference, what with the magazine being the primary media for games at the time. Many/most later-gen games process the game at the same speed, but for some reason only known to the devs FFX isn't one of them. Might just be a case of unfamiliarity with the new console at the time.

Edit: If you want the benefits of FFX International, why not just get a hold of FFX International and use import-playing-method-of-your-choice? It's by far the superior version of the game, and you can switch it to English text as soon as you can use the menu.

Scorpio

2008-09-21 10:20:06 am

Watcher

I must say: I play PAL version of the game (I am from Europe) and Tidus is indeed flying through the air. And game is slow-paced. Which is annoying for anyone who has seen NTSC version of the game.

Essentia

2008-09-22 06:23:37 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from getter77:

I think it'd still be an interesting run Essentia since it'd take a different approach through the game in terms of resources available and pursued. Plus....speedier.

I'll keep going on this, then, and I'll let everyone know how much time it seems to save. I just hope it's not a problem to have too huge runs for this game on SDA.

nate

2008-09-22 06:25:58 pm

don't worry about it.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2008-09-27 11:41:28 am

2008-09-22 09:49:31 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

nate is the awesomest! Wink

edit: hee hee, page break!

Essentia

2008-09-27 11:41:39 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Okay, so now I'm right before Mt. Gagazet, and I'm trying to get No Encounters armor from a Ghost in the Cavern of the Stolen Fayth. This is turning out to be really annoying, because it's hard to encounter a Ghost in the first place (let alone as the first battle in the segment), then it rarely drops anything, and when it does it usually doesn't have the No Encounters ability.

I've already saved at least 11 minutes over KADFC's run, because I had faster Evrae and Seymour Natus fights, didn't have to go to Remiem Temple, and I got a Chocobo Wing on the first time through the Sanubia Desert instead of coming back later and doing the cactuar sidequest for it. I was wondering if using No Encounters during Mt. Gagazet would be worth it, since he stole a bunch of needed fire gems during that part, but instead I think I'll go back to the Calm Lands and bribe some flans for the gems. I'll have plenty of money to do this, since the Underdog's Secrets sell for quite a bit of money.

Tigger77

2008-09-27 12:35:26 pm

I survived MIKE-Fest 1

I'm realy happy to see you going serious to this.

FFX is my favorit PS2 game and it woud be great to see a run on SDA standard.

So Just hang in there I will definitly watching it.

mfg Tigger77

Essentia

2008-09-27 07:38:41 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Yay, I finally got No Encounters after a couple of hours of trying. It saved about 2-3 minutes in just the first part of Mt. Gagazet (before the cave). I just realized in my last post, I forgot to add in the amount of time saved by not going to Remiem Temple. So in all so far, I've saved somewhere around 18 minutes over KADFC's run, although my time is actually a lot worse than that since there were many parts that I didn't optimize. Don't worry, I'll do better on the real run. Smiley

Axel Ryman

2008-09-28 02:29:58 am

We all scream for Eyes Cream

Just wondering, but do you think we should convince the timer to be stopped after defeating Jecht since everything after is practically pointless? I mean, you can't die at all, just kill. Its like everything after is just a waste of time considering you're practically unbeatable. This was actually someone else's idea, I just agree with it.

Also good job Essentia. Good luck getting it in the real run.

Carcinogen

2008-09-28 11:31:24 am

It's defined as "whenever you lose control of the character". You haven't lost control of the character until you beat Yu Yevon... Which won't even take a long time to do.

Maglok

2008-09-29 03:35:50 am

Dum die dum

Quote from Carcinogen:

It's defined as "whenever you lose control of the character". You haven't lost control of the character until you beat Yu Yevon... Which won't even take a long time to do.

Aye he has a point. Keep up this training stuff though, I would definately watch a good FFX run.

I'll have to find my copy and look up some stuff, I seem to recall I had some ideas to cut some time here and there.

Essentia

2008-09-29 02:22:03 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

I just finished the test run. I won't tell you my final time--it's pretty bad since I wasn't worried about doing everything perfectly--but it looks like I can save around 20-25 minutes. I know I picked up/stole too many items, so I'm going to look at what I actually used and try to cut out as much as possible. Also, I didn't have to make a side trip for Tidus to learn Slice & Dice; I kept using Spincut along the way (usually on bosses) so that he learned it when I fought Sin's left fin near the end. If anyone can find any other time-saving ideas, I'd appreciate hearing them. I'd like this run to be as good as possible.

Carcinogen

2008-09-29 02:54:08 pm

No need to save face... What time did you get? =]

Essentia

2008-09-29 03:08:58 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

All right then, my time at the final save was 11:34 (compared to 11:24 on KADFC's run). I didn't time it after that, but it should be pretty much the same as KADFC'S.

HalfMillennium

2008-09-30 07:48:10 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Would a PAL or International run be accepted due to length? I don't think the Internenation version is slower than the Japanese version, but apparently PAL is.

bmn

2008-09-30 11:45:29 am

PAL would probably be iffy, it'd add an hour or two to the total time. International runs in NTSC (as you'd expect from a Jp region game) so it would likely be faster, unless the new sphere grids get in the way.

Essentia

2008-09-30 12:52:35 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

I think the rule is that if a NTSC run has already been posted, a PAL run will be posted only if it beats the NTSC time when taking into consideration the 5/6 running speed. In other words, it won't be posted just because it's a different category; it will have to actually have better gameplay, etc., than the existing run. Still, PAL would be significantly longer, and that might be a problem in and of itself, so you'd have to check with an admin to find out for sure whether it would be accepted.

Anyway, for this new game+ run (or whatever you want to call it), I'm not planning to get the Al Bhed primers as soon as possible (at Baaj Temple); instead, I'll get them at one of the travel agencies because it won't be so far out of the way. That shouldn't be a problem, right?

mikwuyma

2008-09-30 02:13:48 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from Essentia:

I think the rule is that if a NTSC run has already been posted, a PAL run will be posted only if it beats the NTSC time when taking into consideration the 5/6 running speed. In other words, it won't be posted just because it's a different category; it will have to actually have better gameplay, etc., than the existing run. Still, PAL would be significantly longer, and that might be a problem in and of itself, so you'd have to check with an admin to find out for sure whether it would be accepted.

It's more like the gameplay/time has to be on an equal level.

HalfMillennium

2008-09-30 03:54:57 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

It might be tricky to compare. The PAL version has a few things the NTSC one doesn't. Upgraded Tornado, Ribbon, harder Ultima/Omega Weapons and ESG could all affect a run. It's not identical to the International version, so they can't be directly compared to each other.

mithical87

2008-10-02 06:50:18 am

Freelance slacker

I only played through this game for the first time just weeks ago (actually my controller went kaput right as I got inside Sin, so I'm technically not done) so I don't have much advice to offer. However, and if I'm right it's a big damn 'however', I seemed to encounter ghosts all the time in a certain area of Cavern of the Stolen Fayth. You basically follow the main path until it splits, and then you make a right (should be east) into a small green cavern (I think there's a chest there). I spent a bit of time fighting things for gil to get Yojimbo and I recall running into a ghost pretty much every time I first entered that area. It happened with such regularity that I assumed that this was the only way to encounter a ghost, actually.

Unfortunately, from a logical point of view, it doesn't make much sense. Sure the enemies you can encounter change in different areas (usually screen changes), but there's no other 'special' spot to encounter specific enemies anywhere else in the game. This probably means it was all in my head. Also unfortunately, since (as I said before) my controller died, I can't go do a bit of testing myself. Anyway, there it is. I said it. You can go ahead now, waste 5 or 10 minutes checking it out, make sure I'm a crazy man, and then go back to making some real progress on your run.

Hopefully you can avoid some of the drunken staggering in KADFC's google video run. I found the game has a tendency to lock Tidas into the direction he's heading and in order to make slight adjustments you have to first change direction dramatically. The direction locking thing has it's advantages though, helping you keep moving straight through camera angle changes and such.

I know the unskippable stuff will grind on your sanity (I died fighting Yunalesca twice and I could barely sit through the stuff leading up to the fight the third time), so I wish you super special double luck on your run.

I only played through this game for the first time just weeks ago (actually my controller went kaput right as I got inside Sin, so I'm technically not done) so I don't have much advice to offer. However, and if I'm right it's a big damn 'however', I seemed to encounter ghosts all the time in a certain area of Cavern of the Stolen Fayth. You basically follow the main path until it splits, and then you make a right (should be east) into a small green cavern (I think there's a chest there). I spent a bit of time fighting things for gil to get Yojimbo and I recall running into a ghost pretty much every time I first entered that area. It happened with such regularity that I assumed that this was the only way to encounter a ghost, actually.

Unfortunately, from a logical point of view, it doesn't make much sense. Sure the enemies you can encounter change in different areas (usually screen changes), but there's no other 'special' spot to encounter specific enemies anywhere else in the game. This probably means it was all in my head. Also unfortunately, since (as I said before) my controller died, I can't go do a bit of testing myself. Anyway, there it is. I said it. You can go ahead now, waste 5 or 10 minutes checking it out, make sure I'm a crazy man, and then go back to making some real progress on your run.

Hopefully you can avoid some of the drunken staggering in KADFC's google video run. I found the game has a tendency to lock Tidas into the direction he's heading and in order to make slight adjustments you have to first change direction dramatically. The direction locking thing has it's advantages though, helping you keep moving straight through camera angle changes and such.

I know the unskippable stuff will grind on your sanity (I died fighting Yunalesca twice and I could barely sit through the stuff leading up to the fight the third time), so I wish you super special double luck on your run.

bmn

2008-10-02 07:03:25 am

Quote from mithical87:

I seemed to encounter ghosts all the time in a certain area of Cavern of the Stolen Fayth. You basically follow the main path until it splits, and then you make a right (should be east) into a small green cavern (I think there's a chest there). I spent a bit of time fighting things for gil to get Yojimbo and I recall running into a ghost pretty much every time I first entered that area. It happened with such regularity that I assumed that this was the only way to encounter a ghost, actually.

Unfortunately, from a logical point of view, it doesn't make much sense. Sure the enemies you can encounter change in different areas (usually screen changes), but there's no other 'special' spot to encounter specific enemies anywhere else in the game. This probably means it was all in my head.

No, the enemies do change based on your location in the current area. I think it even mentions it somewhere in the game itself. The best example I think is the Calm Lands where you encounter Coeurls most often in the south west etc.

[quote="mithical87"]
I seemed to encounter ghosts all the time in a certain area of Cavern of the Stolen Fayth. You basically follow the main path until it splits, and then you make a right (should be east) into a small green cavern (I think there's a chest there). I spent a bit of time fighting things for gil to get Yojimbo and I recall running into a ghost pretty much every time I first entered that area. It happened with such regularity that I assumed that this was the only way to encounter a ghost, actually.

Unfortunately, from a logical point of view, it doesn't make much sense. Sure the enemies you can encounter change in different areas (usually screen changes), but there's no other 'special' spot to encounter specific enemies anywhere else in the game. This probably means it was all in my head.
[/quote]
No, the enemies do change based on your location in the current area. I think it even mentions it somewhere in the game itself. The best example I think is the Calm Lands where you encounter Coeurls most often in the south west etc.

Essentia

2008-10-02 09:25:18 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from mithical87:

I only played through this game for the first time just weeks ago (actually my controller went kaput right as I got inside Sin, so I'm technically not done) so I don't have much advice to offer. However, and if I'm right it's a big damn 'however', I seemed to encounter ghosts all the time in a certain area of Cavern of the Stolen Fayth. You basically follow the main path until it splits, and then you make a right (should be east) into a small green cavern (I think there's a chest there). I spent a bit of time fighting things for gil to get Yojimbo and I recall running into a ghost pretty much every time I first entered that area. It happened with such regularity that I assumed that this was the only way to encounter a ghost, actually.

Unfortunately, from a logical point of view, it doesn't make much sense. Sure the enemies you can encounter change in different areas (usually screen changes), but there's no other 'special' spot to encounter specific enemies anywhere else in the game. This probably means it was all in my head. Also unfortunately, since (as I said before) my controller died, I can't go do a bit of testing myself. Anyway, there it is. I said it. You can go ahead now, waste 5 or 10 minutes checking it out, make sure I'm a crazy man, and then go back to making some real progress on your run.

There are actually a couple of special spots in the game where you encounter specific enemies. There's the Calm Lands, like bmn said, and then on the Djose Highroad you encounter Simurghs only in the bright spots. I'll test your spot for the Ghosts, but I know you encounter them right at the entrance, because in my test run I just ran in circles right at the entrance until I encountered one. The biggest problem isn't encountering a Ghost--it's actually killing the Ghost. They have random elemental weaknesses every time, so I can't count on that. Since Ghosts have 9999 hp, the best thing would be to have an overdrive with Rikku beforehand (I didn't in my test run, so I used a Magic Urn to quickly get her one), then mix Quartet, and then one attack finishes it (I used Tidus's Spincut to help get Slice & Dice sooner).

Quote:

Hopefully you can avoid some of the drunken staggering in KADFC's google video run. I found the game has a tendency to lock Tidas into the direction he's heading and in order to make slight adjustments you have to first change direction dramatically. The direction locking thing has it's advantages though, helping you keep moving straight through camera angle changes and such.

Yeah, I'm finding that to be annoying. I've also found that sometimes if you're holding a direction before the screen loads, when the screen appears you start heading in completely the wrong direction. I'm working on it.

Quote:

I know the unskippable stuff will grind on your sanity (I died fighting Yunalesca twice and I could barely sit through the stuff leading up to the fight the third time), so I wish you super special double luck on your run.

Thanks. I feel your pain with Yunalesca, but she shouldn't be much of a problem for me. This run definitely requires less luck than my FFIX run did, so I think I can handle it.

Edit: I've found some possible improvements that I'm looking into. KADFC got a bunch of HP/MP/Magic (etc.) spheres for mixing, but he didn't use all of them. I'm going to see if using some of them on the sphere grid might be helpful, since they boost stats quite a bit.

[quote="mithical87"]
I only played through this game for the first time just weeks ago (actually my controller went kaput right as I got inside Sin, so I'm technically not done) so I don't have much advice to offer. However, and if I'm right it's a big damn 'however', I seemed to encounter ghosts all the time in a certain area of Cavern of the Stolen Fayth. You basically follow the main path until it splits, and then you make a right (should be east) into a small green cavern (I think there's a chest there). I spent a bit of time fighting things for gil to get Yojimbo and I recall running into a ghost pretty much every time I first entered that area. It happened with such regularity that I assumed that this was the only way to encounter a ghost, actually.

Unfortunately, from a logical point of view, it doesn't make much sense. Sure the enemies you can encounter change in different areas (usually screen changes), but there's no other 'special' spot to encounter specific enemies anywhere else in the game. This probably means it was all in my head. Also unfortunately, since (as I said before) my controller died, I can't go do a bit of testing myself. Anyway, there it is. I said it. You can go ahead now, waste 5 or 10 minutes checking it out, make sure I'm a crazy man, and then go back to making some real progress on your run. [/quote]
There are actually a couple of special spots in the game where you encounter specific enemies.  There's the Calm Lands, like bmn said, and then on the Djose Highroad you encounter Simurghs only in the bright spots.  I'll test your spot for the Ghosts, but I know you encounter them right at the entrance, because in my test run I just ran in circles right at the entrance until I encountered one.  The biggest problem isn't encountering a Ghost--it's actually killing the Ghost.  They have random elemental weaknesses every time, so I can't count on that.  Since Ghosts have 9999 hp, the best thing would be to have an overdrive with Rikku beforehand (I didn't in my test run, so I used a Magic Urn to quickly get her one), then mix Quartet, and then one attack finishes it (I used Tidus's Spincut to help get Slice & Dice sooner).

[quote]Hopefully you can avoid some of the drunken staggering in KADFC's google video run. I found the game has a tendency to lock Tidas into the direction he's heading and in order to make slight adjustments you have to first change direction dramatically. The direction locking thing has it's advantages though, helping you keep moving straight through camera angle changes and such.[/quote]
Yeah, I'm finding that to be annoying.  I've also found that sometimes if you're holding a direction before the screen loads, when the screen appears you start heading in completely the wrong direction.  I'm working on it.

[quote]I know the unskippable stuff will grind on your sanity (I died fighting Yunalesca twice and I could barely sit through the stuff leading up to the fight the third time), so I wish you super special double luck on your run.
[/quote]
Thanks.  I feel your pain with Yunalesca, but she shouldn't be much of a problem for me.  This run definitely requires less luck than my FFIX run did, so I think I can handle it.

Edit: I've found some possible improvements that I'm looking into.  KADFC got a bunch of HP/MP/Magic (etc.) spheres for mixing, but he didn't use all of them.  I'm going to see if using some of them on the sphere grid might be helpful, since they boost stats quite a bit.

Eternalspirit

2008-10-02 09:31:52 am

This is probably a known fact by everyone on the planet, but the damage formula for physicals takes strength squared, IIRC. So getting more strength from the sphere grid would increase damage exponentially. Just a thought.

Essentia

2008-10-02 09:48:12 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Nope, that wasn't known by me. I don't really know much about FFX's damage formulas, so any help there is appreciated. So if strength increases damage exponentially, then it might be worth it to win the strength sphere from the blitzball game (I'd been planning to lose because it's faster). It's too bad that some places where it would be really helpful (such as Sinspawn Euchilles and the Sahagins in the sphere pool) happen before you can use it. Actually, now that I think about it, it might be more worth it to give the strength sphere to Yuna so it will boost the aeons' strength. (One problem with this run is that you get hardly any mana and speed spheres, but there will be plenty of power spheres.)