Final Fantasy VIII

2013-02-13 03:35:27 pm

Shiva's animation takes 27ish seconds, not including the 'loading time'. Ultra Waves is 12 seconds.

With a single fish fight you still need to pick up the extra 4ap somewhere so 1 quick limit break kill of a Cataphillar (?) wouldnt be so bad. Am I right thinking you can get into a fight with 2 of them at once? If so: bonus!

TengEng

2013-02-13 07:15:33 pm

Whatever, just do it quickly.

The only encounter with Caterchipillar is in Balamb forest. That thing that you run through on your way to the fire cavern.
The possible encounter are
1x Cate
1x Cate, 2x Bite Bugs

Either of the two works since you can always kill Bats in the cavern for the other two points of AP.

Good news is that the Cate has thunders so you can try to get Squall critical here. You can temp the fates by draw casting for bonus damage. You could also consider trying to get Quistis into critical, but her limit is bad against Ifrit so you should really have her damage herself there.

Fasti-F's have 41/59 Vit/Spr when out of the ground but get about 120/120 bonus while in the ground, bring damage resistance from 12%/20% to 59%/67% Phy/Magical respectively.

Sush

2013-02-14 03:13:01 am

I was thinking the best time to kill one would be heading to the beach from Ifrit because I would have a limit break at my disposal for a 1 turn victory.

I'm not sure if a 2xBat or 2XBite Bug battle would be best to accompany this for the extra 2. I suppose I could just retry until one of the random encounters is an easy 2ap.

All this planning is probably just for a marginal gain by using Ultra Waves but from my point of view any reason to not summon in FF8 is a good one.

TengEng

2013-02-14 06:37:37 am

Whatever, just do it quickly.

2x Bats @ ~45 hp is clearly easier than 2x B-Bugs @ 145 hp

Also the GF & magic damage formula is correct with the strange phenomenon that Raldos have a mode where I think they are doubling their Sprit stat and they start out in that mode. Killing them when they don't have the double Spr is much easier.

Of course, if you have Crisis Level 4, none of this matters, but I think you'd have to get both blind and silenced for it to happen with any frequency.

FFgamer86

2013-02-14 06:41:49 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

The Raldos have higher Spirit until you take out Granaldo and "then" they take an action.

FFgamer86

2013-02-14 06:46:20 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

I'm also thinking you don't need to pick up the cards from the guy in the hallway, since most of the fights where we can force cards would possibly be in different segments. The 5 cards we could get would be, Caterchipillar, Red-Bat, Ifrit, Fastitocalon-F, and Anacondour.

TengEng

2013-02-14 06:48:16 am

Whatever, just do it quickly.

Quote from FFgamer86:

I'm also thinking you don't need to pick up the cards from the guy in the hallway, since most of the fights where we can force cards would possibly be in different segments. The 5 cards we could get would be, Caterchipillar, Red-Bat, Ifrit, Fastitocalon-F, and Anacondour.

5+ Fish Fins AND a Fasti-F card! How much do you like reseting Sush!?

Sush

Edit history:

Sush: 2013-02-14 08:02:12 am

Sush: 2013-02-14 07:39:09 am

2013-02-14 07:36:55 am

Well I'm going to try harder for "The End" this time so getting a few cards would be a drop in the ocean.

Edit: 3.5% chance for an enemy to drop his own card. Doing this would save 6.5 seconds... I'll concider it?

TengEng

2013-02-14 07:44:33 am

Whatever, just do it quickly.

Quote from FFgamer86:

The good thing about this skip if possible is that the only thing skipped is gf siren. So we would only need to fimd away to get another spell for junctioning to hp.

I'd think Demi first then Pandamona Card in Balamb town after Raijin and Fujin.

Sush

2013-02-16 05:23:31 pm

This will be the last ridiculous theory crafting I post in this thread before I start recording proper, I promise (maybe).

Firstly I think I've finished all the testing for the 'Ultra Waves' strat. This would include the following:

- Giving both S and Q a GF each and giving them both Draw.
- An extra random battle, the Caterchipillar, in which I lower S's health to just over 100 with 3 or 4 Draw/Cast Lightnings. A 5-combo Renzo will then kill it. Aquire a Spider Web.
- Killing 2 Fire Bats in the Fire Cavern but both in seperate random encounters, followed by escaping. Thus dodging 5~ seconds of victory posing and extra menu skipping.
- Wailing on Ifrit with Renzo instantly thus attempting to skip his dialogue (so far a failure).
~ Insert Dollet here ~
- Teach Quistis Ultra Waves.
- Lowering Q's health to around 5-10% in two hits from S in the single encounter leading up to the 'Secret Area'. Followed by escaping.
- Utterly destroying Granaldo and his shitty little Raldos in 25-30 seconds (Ultra Waves at Crisis Level 4 does 920~ dmg to Granaldo and 1 shots all Raldos).

Overall I think this would make those two sections 10(ish) seconds faster than the TAS and a whopping 2.5 mins faster than my last run. Any suggestions on improvements to this strat would be more than welcome.

I'm also still concidering skipping Siren which would save around 15 seconds overall. This requires Demi's on HP instead of Curagas which would make getting higher Crisis Levels at certain parts of the game ever so slightly harder. Still got to look into that a bit more.

This will be the last ridiculous theory crafting I post in this thread before I start recording proper, I promise (maybe).

Firstly I think I've finished all the testing for the 'Ultra Waves' strat. This would include the following:

- Giving both S and Q a GF each and giving them both Draw.
   - An extra random battle, the Caterchipillar, in which I lower S's health to just over 100 with 3 or 4 Draw/Cast Lightnings. A 5-combo Renzo will then kill it. Aquire a Spider Web.
   - Killing 2 Fire Bats in the Fire Cavern but both in seperate random encounters, followed by escaping. Thus dodging 5~ seconds of victory posing and extra menu skipping.
   - Wailing on Ifrit with Renzo instantly thus attempting to skip his dialogue (so far a failure).
           ~ Insert Dollet here ~
   - Teach Quistis Ultra Waves.
   - Lowering Q's health to around 5-10% in two hits from S in the single encounter leading up to the 'Secret Area'. Followed by escaping.
   - Utterly destroying Granaldo and his shitty little Raldos in 25-30 seconds (Ultra Waves at Crisis Level 4 does 920~ dmg to Granaldo and 1 shots all Raldos).

Overall I think this would make those two sections 10(ish) seconds faster than the TAS and a whopping 2.5 mins faster than my last run. Any suggestions on improvements to this strat would be more than welcome.

I'm also still concidering skipping Siren which would save around 15 seconds overall. This requires Demi's on HP instead of Curagas which would make getting higher Crisis Levels at certain parts of the game ever so slightly harder. Still got to look into that a bit more.

TengEng

2013-02-17 01:48:48 pm

Whatever, just do it quickly.

Theory-crafting at the opening is actually quite important. If you get it wrong, you might find out that you will have to redo some or all of your run.

Couple things to ask yourself at this point:
Are there any other possible use of Quistis Ultra Waves and is it better than the alternatives?
What is your money strategy?
Demi's would come at the same exact time as Triples and are essentially free from the Diablos Card. This simplifies early game money strategy significantly (no tents, no cottages). Is that additional benefit worth it? What if you get Siren but use Demi's for the early game?

920 damage to Granaldo is quite nice. I didn't expect it to go that high. Might be useful for other situations?
Also, if you need fairly good crisis levels across multiple battles, you could cast blind and silence once on your character and the status stays as long as they don't get auto healed. I might also recommend pain and antidote the poison, but you're not going to find those during a speed run. Silence and Blind barely matter but give you a -24% effective hp for Crisis Level boosting.

Theory-crafting at the opening is actually quite important.  If you get it wrong, you might find out that you will have to redo some or all of your run.

Couple things to ask yourself at this point:
Are there any other possible use of Quistis Ultra Waves and is it better than the alternatives?
What is your money strategy?
Demi's would come at the same exact time as Triples and are essentially free from the Diablos Card.  This simplifies early game money strategy significantly (no tents, no cottages).  Is that additional benefit worth it?  What if you get Siren but use Demi's for the early game?

920 damage to Granaldo is quite nice.  I didn't expect it to go that high.  Might be useful for other situations?
Also, if you need fairly good crisis levels across multiple battles, you could cast blind and silence once on your character and the status stays as long as they don't get auto healed.  I might also recommend pain and antidote the poison, but you're not going to find those during a speed run.  Silence and Blind barely matter but give you a -24% effective hp for Crisis Level boosting.

DarkKobold

Edit history:

DarkKobold: 2013-02-18 12:22:10 am

2013-02-18 12:20:59 am

RPG TASer

Quote from Sush:

Well I'm going to try harder for "The End" this time so getting a few cards would be a drop in the ocean.

Edit: 3.5% chance for an enemy to drop his own card. Doing this would save 6.5 seconds... I'll concider it?

Before you go crazy with this, I'm fairly certain I tried for this in the TAS. There isn't a single RNG that exists that can drop both 2 fish fins and a card. With the way the RNG is broken, there are 255 options. Not a single one is both the cards and 2+ fish fins, iirc. I could check again...

NINJA EDIT: Now that I think about it, I may have only tested with Quistis one shotting the buried fish, which requires a strong CL4. I could dump all 255 drops, if you were really serious.

Sush

2013-02-18 10:33:47 am

Quote from Sush:

Overall I think this would make those two sections 10(ish) seconds faster than the TAS and a whopping 2.5 mins faster than my last run. Any suggestions on improvements to this strat would be more than welcome. .

I realised when I redid the testing and maths on this that I was slightly wrong.

Comparing an imaginary "perfect" run through of an Ultra Waves vs a Shiva boost tactic the overall times for both are almost exactly the same. The extra time spent in an extra encounter for Ultra Waves and the time lowering Q's health again is balanced out by the time saved on Granaldo.

Quote from TengEng:

Are there any other possible use of Quistis Ultra Waves and is it better than the alternatives?

Ultra Waves is a better choice than Angelo Cannon (3~ seconds faster), I can only think of two places that's used in the first place though so a mere 6 seconds saved. I'll have to think some more about the benefits of it. Maybe I'll be able to kill Granaldo with 1 Ultra Wave and 1 normal attack from Squall? I'll try it out.

Quote from TengEng:

What is your money strategy?
Demi's would come at the same exact time as Triples and are essentially free from the Diablos Card. This simplifies early game money strategy significantly (no tents, no cottages). Is that additional benefit worth it? What if you get Siren but use Demi's for the early game?

My lazy workings out for skipping Siren:
Draw: 3.5 secs. Skipping name: 1. Buying tents: 4. Cure-RF: 5. Estimated time saved: 15 seconds (give or take whatever).

Squalls health comparison at lvl 8:
No junction = 529
Curaga = 2729 (19.3%)
Demi = 2129 (24.8%).
Minimum health % for limits = 32%
(%) would be how much health S would have when forced from 100% down to 529 by unjunctioning/junctioning him.

But seeing as I don't know how much 5.5% difference in health makes it's not so useful :). My guess is that it does make a change but the random element of Crisis Levels would mean that the difference wouldn't matter so much in a segmented run?

[quote="Sush"]Overall I think this would make those two sections 10(ish) seconds faster than the TAS and a whopping 2.5 mins faster than my last run. Any suggestions on improvements to this strat would be more than welcome. .[/quote]

I realised when I redid the testing and maths on this that I was slightly wrong.

Comparing an imaginary "perfect" run through of an Ultra Waves vs a Shiva boost tactic the overall times for both are almost exactly the same. The extra time spent in an extra encounter for Ultra Waves and the time lowering Q's health again is balanced out by the time saved on Granaldo.

[quote="TengEng"]Are there any other possible use of Quistis Ultra Waves and is it better than the alternatives?[/quote]

Ultra Waves is a better choice than Angelo Cannon (3~ seconds faster), I can only think of two places that's used in the first place though so a mere 6 seconds saved. I'll have to think some more about the benefits of it. Maybe I'll be able to kill Granaldo with 1 Ultra Wave and 1 normal attack from Squall? I'll try it out.

[quote="TengEng"]What is your money strategy?
Demi's would come at the same exact time as Triples and are essentially free from the Diablos Card.  This simplifies early game money strategy significantly (no tents, no cottages).  Is that additional benefit worth it?  What if you get Siren but use Demi's for the early game?[/quote]

My lazy workings out for skipping Siren: 
Draw: 3.5 secs. Skipping name: 1. Buying tents: 4. Cure-RF: 5. Estimated time saved: 15 seconds (give or take whatever).

Squalls health comparison at lvl 8:
No junction = 529 
Curaga = 2729 (19.3%)
Demi = 2129 (24.8%).
Minimum health % for limits = 32%
(%) would be how much health S would have when forced from 100% down to 529 by unjunctioning/junctioning him.

But seeing as I don't know how much 5.5% difference in health makes it's not so useful :). My guess is that it does make a change but the random element of Crisis Levels would mean that the difference wouldn't matter so much in a segmented run?

Elren

2013-02-18 11:55:22 am

Let's look into skipping Siren in detail then.
With Curaga your maximum CL is ~2.9 with demi its ~2.1.(with everyone alive, no statuses)
That means that the probability to get a lower CL with demi is higher than with curaga. But it also means that its easier with curaga(and a hit on S) to get a high hit count renzo if its needed somewhere(dont know where we would ever need it though).
Additional to dropping the possibility of a high CL drops the prob of using finishers does too -> demi strats use less finishers and is better manipulateable in that way. So you can set more ambitious goals there.

So for a segmented run demi is better, cause less finishers, 15 sec save initial and same max level as curaga strats. And if you need a highlevel renzo somewhere you can manipulate it somehow anyway.
(Just mentioning the odds of 5 hit renzo are 3/255, 4 hit 32/255, rest no renzo with demi strats; curaga: 25,37, rest/255)

Nice find Sush. Keep up the good work!

TengEng

2013-02-18 03:36:42 pm

Whatever, just do it quickly.

Quote from Sush:

Quote from TengEng:

What is your money strategy?
Demi's would come at the same exact time as Triples and are essentially free from the Diablos Card. This simplifies early game money strategy significantly (no tents, no cottages). Is that additional benefit worth it? What if you get Siren but use Demi's for the early game?

My lazy workings out for skipping Siren:
Draw: 3.5 secs. Skipping name: 1. Buying tents: 4. Cure-RF: 5. Estimated time saved: 15 seconds (give or take whatever).

Squalls health comparison at lvl 8:
No junction = 529
Curaga = 2729 (19.3%)
Demi = 2129 (24.8%).
Minimum health % for limits = 32%
(%) would be how much health S would have when forced from 100% down to 529 by unjunctioning/junctioning him.

But seeing as I don't know how much 5.5% difference in health makes it's not so useful :). My guess is that it does make a change but the random element of Crisis Levels would mean that the difference wouldn't matter so much in a segmented run?

In SS strats, there are two options for early money, sell the Occult Fan (Balamb Garden detour) or learn Card-Mod by Timber Shop (extra AP strats). The TAS had a drop manipulation strategy. If there are no tents/cottages do you need the extra money and can avoid both of these? You can always get the Occult Fan for a much shorter detour later when finding Ellone.

Crisis Levels Maximum HPs (out of 256)
CL1: ~32% (5 in 256 probability diff per 1% hp)
CL2: ~26%

If you need the CL2, it's extremely rare and become impossible if hp rises a bit more. You may also find that you need need more time to bring out the Limit Break at all. The problem gets worse with higher character levels and is especially true for Irvine's 699 hp @lvl 13.

Getting L-Mag-Ref, Curaga gives better control for CL manipulation and Squall's Renzokuken slashes. For example, refining 8 tents could give 1760 hp bonus or refining 7 could only give 1540 hp. Doing so requires ever slightly less money than for 10.

[quote="Sush"][quote="TengEng"]What is your money strategy?
Demi's would come at the same exact time as Triples and are essentially free from the Diablos Card.  This simplifies early game money strategy significantly (no tents, no cottages).  Is that additional benefit worth it?  What if you get Siren but use Demi's for the early game?[/quote]

My lazy workings out for skipping Siren: 
Draw: 3.5 secs. Skipping name: 1. Buying tents: 4. Cure-RF: 5. Estimated time saved: 15 seconds (give or take whatever).

Squalls health comparison at lvl 8:
No junction = 529 
Curaga = 2729 (19.3%)
Demi = 2129 (24.8%).
Minimum health % for limits = 32%
(%) would be how much health S would have when forced from 100% down to 529 by unjunctioning/junctioning him.

But seeing as I don't know how much 5.5% difference in health makes it's not so useful :). My guess is that it does make a change but the random element of Crisis Levels would mean that the difference wouldn't matter so much in a segmented run?
[/quote]
In SS strats, there are two options for early money, sell the Occult Fan (Balamb Garden detour) or learn Card-Mod by Timber Shop (extra AP strats).  The TAS had a drop manipulation strategy.  If there are no tents/cottages do you need the extra money and can avoid both of these?  You can always get the Occult Fan for a much shorter detour later when finding Ellone.

Crisis Levels Maximum HPs (out of 256)
CL1: ~32% (5 in 256 probability diff per 1% hp)
CL2: ~26%

If you need the CL2, it's extremely rare and become impossible if hp rises a bit more.  You may also find that you need need more time to bring out the Limit Break at all.  The problem gets worse with higher character levels and is especially true for Irvine's 699 hp @lvl 13.

Getting L-Mag-Ref, Curaga gives better control for CL manipulation and Squall's Renzokuken slashes.  For example, refining 8 tents could give 1760 hp bonus or refining 7 could only give 1540 hp.  Doing so requires ever slightly less money than for 10.

Sush

Edit history:

Sush: 2013-02-19 08:16:02 am

Sush: 2013-02-19 08:15:52 am

Sush: 2013-02-19 05:21:37 am

Sush: 2013-02-19 05:21:06 am

2013-02-19 05:19:36 am

Without the book you'd have 7000gil. Minus the 3000 for the train ticket that's 4/11 tents you'd need to junction 2 people. You can sell 1 Elixir and some other stuff but you'd still be too short for your second character.

Also I might do the car trick from the TAS which is another 1500gil. Seems to me to get Siren you also need the book too. Without the book you'd be equipping the second char with demis and your main with Curagas. That may be ok but still, 15 seconds!

(dumb) EDIT: Renting a car is 3500gil, not 1500. So doing that would require you to dedicate towards Demis.

Time saved renting a car to and from Balamb Garden (not walking on roads, takes into account time to rent car):
To: 4~ secs
From: 5~ secs
Total: 9 secs.

Time saved by skipping siren now up to 24 seconds! Alert the press.

TengEng

2013-02-19 10:21:41 am

Whatever, just do it quickly.

I think you could do a low economy single character Curaga strat. You get 2 cottages from Wedge in Dollet Tower and start out with 5 tents. That's good for 90 Curagas and 1980 hp. It's enough for Irvine and any other character. However, this could still cause problems for the character(s) with Demi though.

For Irvine's Ammo, you always have 14 G Returners to sell (1750 Gil).

Overall, I think skipping Siren for 15/24 secs is marginal and could be given back through the length of the run. If the time gain was twice as big, a blind/silence Irvine & Squall through disc 3 & 4 would more than make up for the 5.5% hp difference for CL manipulation. Also a

There are also several places that you may be able to avoid the limit break. (Firaga Elem-Atk-J Tripoint) (Water Elem-Atk-J BGH Ironclad #2)

Sush

2013-02-19 01:28:12 pm

Also not going for 2 characters with 100 Curagas saves an extra 34 seconds by not going to the Library.

Personally I think no Siren or Siren and 90 Curagas would be the better two options.

TengEng

2013-02-19 08:40:30 pm

Whatever, just do it quickly.

I tested out the fastest way to apply negative status on characters, and it's Status-Atk-J. Unlike spell casts that might take 8-10 seconds, this is a regular attack so it's quick. Junction Blind or Silence to one of your weaker characters and hitting one of your primaries hits them for 50+ hp and applies a -12% effective hp bonus for crisis level calculations. In fights like the one against MobileType 8, two status can effectively remove the need to cast Aura since the probability for getting CL2/CL3 gets pretty good. If you can get close to 0 hp, even the CL4 limits get much more common (~40% for 2 status and 25% for 1 status).

In a speed run, it become viable when Diablos learns Status-Mag Refine (can learn right after BGH#2 and completes in Raijin&Fujin#1) since Silence can be refined from M-Stone Pieces. The only problem with this for a Siren-less Demi HP strategy is that Siren is the only GF that will have Status-Atk-J. Cry

So not going to help you skip Siren. Damn.

Blinds are potentially a big hit to your money. Blind is only 1 per Eye Drop so getting 100% status application will cost 10k. Silence is fairly inexpensive at 5 per M-Stone piece and 2 per Echo Screen. You pick up 1 M-Stone from the Funguar Card and 4 from Anaconduar. You may also get some from Red Bat kills and Gesper Drops.

I tested out the fastest way to apply negative status on characters, and it's Status-Atk-J.  Unlike spell casts that might take 8-10 seconds, this is a regular attack so it's quick.  Junction Blind or Silence to one of your weaker characters and hitting one of your primaries hits them for 50+ hp and applies a -12% effective hp bonus for crisis level calculations.  In fights like the one against MobileType 8, two status can effectively remove the need to cast Aura since the probability for getting CL2/CL3 gets pretty good.  If you can get close to 0 hp, even the CL4 limits get much more common (~40% for 2 status and 25% for 1 status).

In a speed run, it become viable when Diablos learns Status-Mag Refine (can learn right after BGH#2 and completes in Raijin&Fujin#1) since Silence can be refined from M-Stone Pieces.  The only problem with this for a Siren-less Demi HP strategy is that Siren is the only GF that will have Status-Atk-J. :'(  So not going to help you skip Siren.  Damn.

Blinds are potentially a big hit to your money.  Blind is only 1 per Eye Drop so getting 100% status application will cost 10k.   Silence is fairly inexpensive at 5 per M-Stone piece and 2 per Echo Screen.  You pick up 1 M-Stone from the Funguar Card and 4 from Anaconduar.   You may also get some from Red Bat kills and Gesper Drops.

FFgamer86

2013-02-19 09:09:56 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

Dont forget to add back the extra time for these menus.

Goth

2013-02-21 10:52:14 am

Hi.
I've seen in a single segment speedrun that a guy took Odin. Why would he want to do that?

JackintheBox333

2013-02-21 12:42:24 pm

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

Perhaps you were watching a marathon speedrun of Final Fantasy VIII, in which case Odin was a donation incentive.

Goth

Edit history:

Goth: 2013-02-21 04:35:45 pm

2013-02-21 03:14:36 pm

Yes, it was the marathon. Thanks for the reply.
BTW it's cool to see people still enjoying FF8 these days. I'm trying to learn speedrunning it and the thread and the videos really help.

Goth

Edit history:

Goth: 2013-02-21 05:38:16 pm

Goth: 2013-02-21 05:36:27 pm

Goth: 2013-02-21 05:34:53 pm

2013-02-21 05:17:35 pm

@FFgamer86: any advantage picking up the Occult Fan I after the training center mission?
EDIT: oh yeah got it myself you want to have the Diablos Card for the Cafeteria so you have to go back and forth in the Garden anyway. So if you ever have to restart due to a fish fins fail it's better to go there doing less stuff possible so Occult Fan I is left out for later. Single segment is very different.

TengEng

Edit history:

TengEng: 2013-02-21 10:36:14 pm

TengEng: 2013-02-21 09:18:15 pm

2013-02-21 09:17:38 pm

Whatever, just do it quickly.

Early Game Low Money Stratz

Start: 5000 GIL
Buy Car back from Dollet: -3500

SeeD Test End: 1500
Become Seed @ Level 4***
Get Salary on Way to Balamb +2000

Balamb: 3500
Sell Elixir, G-Returners: +4250
Buy Ammo Huh?

(tents?)
Buy Train Ticket to Timber: -3000

Timber Resistance: 4750
Seed Rank +1

Galbadia Garden: 4750
Get salary coming out of the Garden 3000 (moved here due to new train skip strats)
Galbadia Train Ticket: -3000

Galbadia: 4750 <=== (low water mark)
~~Get Salary coming off train platform +3000~~

So in theory, there's 4750 to spend on ammo and other items.***

***Seed Test results may start at level 5 but hinges on one score.
Conduct: 100 (coming out of Dollet before 25:00)
Judgment: 50 (finishing Ifrit with less than 10:00 left on clock)
Attack: 20 (kill 6 sold, Anacondaur, Biggs, Wedge, Elvoret)
Attitude: 10 (Jump Cliff, Hide in Cafe)

Spirit is 50 (run 3 times Soldier encounter, BGH, and Elite Soldier encounter)
You may defeat the Elite soldier during the Dollet retreat (no victory fanfare) and bump up this score to 70, and in the process gain one initial Seed Rank. That will give an additional 1000 gil to work with in early money.

Edit: updated for ffgamer's train skip route that involves more steps.

Early Game Low Money Stratz

Start: 5000 GIL
Buy Car back from Dollet: -3500

SeeD Test End: 1500
Become Seed @ Level 4***
Get Salary on Way to Balamb +2000

Balamb: 3500
Sell Elixir, G-Returners: +4250
Buy Ammo ??? (tents?)
Buy Train Ticket to Timber: -3000

Timber Resistance: 4750
Seed Rank +1

Galbadia Garden: 4750
Get salary coming out of the Garden 3000 (moved here due to new train skip strats)
Galbadia Train Ticket: -3000

Galbadia: 4750 <=== (low water mark)
[s]Get Salary coming off train platform +3000[/s]

So in theory, there's 4750 to spend on ammo and other items.***

***Seed Test results may start at level 5 but hinges on one score.
Conduct: 100 (coming out of Dollet before 25:00) 
Judgment: 50 (finishing Ifrit with less than 10:00 left on clock)
Attack: 20 (kill 6 sold, Anacondaur, Biggs, Wedge, Elvoret)
Attitude: 10 (Jump Cliff, Hide in Cafe)

Spirit is 50 (run 3 times Soldier encounter, BGH, and Elite Soldier encounter)
You may defeat the Elite soldier during the Dollet retreat (no victory fanfare) and bump up this score to 70, and in the process gain one initial Seed Rank.  That will give an additional 1000 gil to work with in early money.

Edit: updated for ffgamer's train skip route that involves more steps.