Final Fantasy VIII

2012-09-06 12:42:13 pm

so FFgamer are you working on a segmented run as well as single segment at the moment? and yea the rinoa skip is way easier going from in front of watts isn't it, I actually found it a bit more consistent walking instead of running if you feel like trying that as well

FFgamer86

2012-09-08 03:23:43 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

I am working on a revamp of the single segment run. I know carcinogen is thinking of doing a Segmented run on the Handheld version GBA/PSP whatever it was released on. I can get the Rinoa Skip down pretty quick now, usually within 10-15 seconds now so I am happy about that. I do stream some of my new route working on my twitch page if your ever on when I am streaming feel free to pop in and say hello.

jpic

2012-09-08 05:40:28 am

mmm I really want to start working on a segmented run for PS2, so I think I will, I hope carcinogen doesn't mind, (although it is a different console anyway I suppose) I didn't know you had a twitch page, I'll definitely check that out, thanks

Poxnor

2012-09-08 05:57:35 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

I know I talked about wanting to add Same/Plus/Elemental to the card player, but I just don't think that I'm going to have time to spend on figuring out FF8's buggy implementation of those rules. I'd rather put out something good quality now that does the basic rules, and has almost all the hooks required should someone want to pursue that feature.

(I'd be happy to implement those rules into the player if someone figures out exactly how FF8 implements the rules, but I just don't have the time to learn the new tools to pursue that investigation right now.)

Anyhow, this version (1.9-beta6) has a significantly faster search, cleaner code, and a slightly more insulting demeanour. Enjoy.

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2012-09-09 10:24:24 am

2012-09-09 10:20:31 am

jpic - At this point, it doesn't really matter who does the segmented run or not. In general, it doesn't really matter either, because you're not stepping on anyone's toes by playing a video game. It'd better be good, though. =p

I've already divulged everything I have to offer about the game in earlier pages of the thread, and there was nothing I was going to contribute to this game outside of manipulating RNG and optimizing everything down to the last turn order and cursor motion. It's very time-intensive, so if you're going to do it yourself, I wish you a lot of luck... Literally, lol.

Pneumothorax

2012-09-23 10:34:54 am

@Poxnor/@FFGamer, I recently picked up Final Fantasy 8 as little speedrun project/hobby kinda thing. I've been experimenting with the Rinoa skip on the train, but can't seem to find any lines of movement or any patterns to get this skip more quickly than usual. Do either of you have any tips/advice on how to possibly make it faster? I'm playing on PS2 with PAL and faster disc speed, I understand that PAL is a lot slower than NTSC, but I will learn everything on PAL, then if I'm still interested, I'll buy an NTSC version and try the bigger runs on there ^^ Thanks in advance Cheesy

FFgamer86

Edit history:

FFgamer86: 2012-09-24 01:51:30 pm

2012-09-24 01:50:09 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

Yes. I found an easy way by watching the japanese runner perform it. You want to push through the right half of watts. Heads almost side by side, small gap between them, soon as you clip through watts push up left and hold and wiggle joystick small bit and you should clip through door.

I'm always available through the IRC chat SDA uses, just join #finalfantasy once you connect to speeddemosarchive.com:6667 on the irc. I also stream a couple times a week working on new route of ff8, I'd be happy to show the Rinoa skip as well.

Pneumothorax

2012-09-25 05:04:00 pm

Ah okay, I'll give it some testing later tonight. I managed to do it like 6 times in a row but with no real trend in where to aim for/where to wiggle joystick so yeah, I'll give that a go. Yeah, I'm following and always keeping a keen eye out for when you might be streaming, so I'll almost definitely be around if/when you stream, and yeah; that'd be perfect, thank you!

FFgamer86

2012-09-29 01:42:15 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

New strat: Fighting the two maintenance Guards in Missile base instead of playing it cool by pushing the missile, etc. saves 30 seconds even with 1 encounter. Would save ~50 seconds if you manage no encounters. Saves ~10 seconds if your unlucky and get 2 encounters. Once you fight the guards, go to the end, fight the 3 guards in room. set timer to 10 mins, exit through secret exit door, go through left door immediately upon entering the first room. Walk back to the spot where guard lies on ground. Get code, EDEA, set the missiles and then walk back out the front way.

DarkKobold

2012-09-29 06:45:50 pm

RPG TASer

Quote from FFgamer86:

New strat: Fighting the two maintenance Guards in Missile base instead of playing it cool by pushing the missile, etc. saves 30 seconds even with 1 encounter. Would save ~50 seconds if you manage no encounters. Saves ~10 seconds if your unlucky and get 2 encounters. Once you fight the guards, go to the end, fight the 3 guards in room. set timer to 10 mins, exit through secret exit door, go through left door immediately upon entering the first room. Walk back to the spot where guard lies on ground. Get code, EDEA, set the missiles and then walk back out the front way.

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow this route completely. When I tested for the TAS, I remember it taking forever to regain the code.

Also, it depends on the number of steps this adds to the final count before you get Enc-None. While you might get 2 encounters, it still might only be a net gain of 1 encounter over the course of the run.

Carcinogen

2012-10-01 01:34:58 pm

To be accurate, getting into a battle and perfectly escaping is 22 seconds.

FFgamer86

2012-10-01 03:22:13 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

I know that Carcinogen, I was just giving estimates. And I did get 2 encounters I believe with Squall and party at Balamb Garden revisit. Also 22 seconds for the PSN Version. Im assuming the PS2 Fast Disc Speed would be under 20 thanks to faster transitions. I haven't done it yet from start of game so I don't know if I would get 1 less encounter or not, with the route, but if you do this strategy and not get any encounters extra, you save roughly 52 seconds. Getting an extra 2 encounters with ENC-Half would still save 8 seconds assuming you run away within a second or so. Most likely you only get the 1 extra encounter and you save about 30 seconds.

Puntja

Edit history:

Puntja: 2012-10-20 05:02:20 pm

2012-10-20 04:57:55 pm

hey.. on the summer games marathon, the runner used a tool to win triple triad, he said it can be downloaded on the SDA forums, where can i find it? Smiley

edit: just found it.. but i have no idea what i should do with the TriadHelper1.9-beta6.tgz file?

Poxnor

2012-10-20 05:14:57 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

tgz is just a compression format, like zip. So, just unzip it using a program that can open tgz. I don't know what's available for Windows; on OS X, just use:

% tar xzvf TriadHelper1.9-beta6.tgz

Everything else is in the README file.

Cheers
--Poxnor

Rakuen

2012-10-20 06:12:56 pm

Weegee Time

7zip can open it on Windows.

Puntja

2012-10-21 03:42:36 pm

thx! but i don't have any idea how to use the software.. i read something in the readme about compiling.. but i have no idea how that works.. my english is not the best, so i can't understand everything in the readme file.. can i download a compiled version anywhere?

Poxnor

2012-10-24 01:37:47 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Yeah, I suppose I should make that available.

I've attached two files. The beta7.tgz file is a precompiled version. It contains only three files: the .jar file (which is the precompiled application that you can run), a .conf file to change default settings, and the README (only Sections 1-3 of the README apply to the precompiled version; Sections 4-6 are just for people wanting the full source version). Two caveats: the precompiled version has no support for audio input/output (I don't have the rights to redistribute the requisite library -- you have to compile things yourself if you want audio), and I didn't bother to include the card analysis scripts in the precompiled version (if you want those, I figure you know how to compile software).

You can run the precompiled version from the command line of any OS I can think of by running

Code:

java -jar triadHelper.jar

from the directory in which the jar file resides. I don't know if there's some pretty way of double-clicking it to make it run in some OSes; you're on your own there.

If you're interested in the full thing (either for audio support, or to extend / hack things), download the beta7-src.tgz file. The whole README applies here, and should explain everything needed.

As Rakuen mentioned earlier, 7zip can open .tgz files if you're running Windows. For anyone else,

Code:

tar xzf FILENAME.tgz

Yeah, I suppose I should make that available.

I've attached two files.  The beta7.tgz file is a precompiled version.  It contains only three files: the .jar file (which is the precompiled application that you can run), a .conf file to change default settings, and the README (only Sections 1-3 of the README apply to the precompiled version; Sections 4-6 are just for people wanting the full source version).  Two caveats: the precompiled version has no support for audio input/output (I don't have the rights to redistribute the requisite library -- you have to compile things yourself if you want audio), and I didn't bother to include the card analysis scripts in the precompiled version (if you want those, I figure you know how to compile software).

You can run the precompiled version from the command line of any OS I can think of by running
[code]java -jar triadHelper.jar[/code]from the directory in which the jar file resides.  I don't know if there's some pretty way of double-clicking it to make it run in some OSes; you're on your own there.

If you're interested in the full thing (either for audio support, or to extend / hack things), download the beta7-src.tgz file.  The whole README applies here, and should explain everything needed.

As Rakuen mentioned earlier, 7zip can open .tgz files if you're running Windows.  For anyone else,
[code]tar xzf FILENAME.tgz[/code]

jpic

2012-12-14 11:17:10 am

Ok, so I've been running this game RTA styley recently and have a few things I thought were worth sharing

1. if you have to fight (or you choose to fight) 3 fastitocalon battles for your fish fins and you have ifrit start learning str+20% right away you can have it learnt in time for diablos, that being the case, if you give zell: ifrit, str+20% and 80 blizzagas the following duel inputs will always kill him

booya / 4x(heel drop, meteor strike, dolphin blow) / heel drop / mach kick / heel drop / dolphin blow

if your super fast you can do this with the 4sec timer, if you get the 9/12 sec timer you may have to add in another attack (since it starts on booya, your 1st input will be heel drop) I will test a strategy without str+20% soon

2. if you use a route that gets the zell card then during the missile base iron clad fight equiping rinoa with str+20%, str+60% & 100triples on attack and using angelo cannon will always do enough damage to kill the iron clad (and get the AP bonus), you can then have selphie use slot and queue up 3 ...ara spells to kill the guards, or even just 3 thunder/fire etc. will kill the standard guards and an additional attack from zell will down the elite guard

3. faster tri-point strat, assuming your main damage dealer is junctioned with pandemona (or any GF with elm-atk) and has str+20%, +40% & +60% and 100 triples, have ifrit learn F mag-rf at some point during your run and use the wizard stones you recieve from oilboyles / norg to refine 100 firagas, stick it on your elm-atk (depending on your setup this can be automatic with auto-atk) tri-point always starts off fire weak and a single attack should kill him (I use squall as my main damage dealer so I have a semi-critical hit, I haven't tested with other characters)
doesn't save much time but every little helps eh?

I also ran into a horrible glitch on a recent run video hidden below

I'm assuming it was caused by the fast disk speed option. I think this would end a single segment run unless you reaaally know all your menuing. saving and reloading caused it to go away

as for a segmented run.... well I'm not the person to do it, it'd have to be on PC to improve on that 7.58, and I just don't like playing this game on the PC, however, if anyone IS interested in doing an improved run or wants to chat about a segmented run (or just chat about this game regardless) let me know as I spent a fair amount of time planning a route and could probably help you out

oh also the garden civil war, it seems to me the fastest route is infirmiry, quad, cafateria, but you have to talk to the middle guy in quad (gives you an x-potion) and the girl leaning against the counter in cafateria (gives you gyshal green) otherwise Xu doesn't appear. however I've never timed this route against others so I might be wrong

Ok, so I've been running this game RTA styley recently and have a few things I thought were worth sharing

1. if you have to fight (or you choose to fight) 3 fastitocalon battles for your fish fins and you have ifrit start learning str+20% right away you can have it learnt in time for diablos, that being the case, if you give zell: ifrit, str+20% and 80 blizzagas the following duel inputs will always kill him

booya / 4x(heel drop, meteor strike, dolphin blow) / heel drop / mach kick / heel drop / dolphin blow

if your super fast you can do this with the 4sec timer, if you get the 9/12 sec timer you may have to add in another attack (since it starts on booya, your 1st input will be heel drop) I will test a strategy without str+20% soon

2. if you use a route that gets the zell card then during the missile base iron clad fight equiping rinoa with str+20%, str+60% & 100triples on attack and using angelo cannon will always do enough damage to kill the iron clad (and get the AP bonus), you can then have selphie use slot and queue up 3 ...ara spells to kill the guards, or even just 3 thunder/fire etc. will kill the standard guards and an additional attack from zell will down the elite guard

3. faster tri-point strat, assuming your main damage dealer is junctioned with pandemona (or any GF with elm-atk) and has str+20%, +40% & +60% and 100 triples, have ifrit learn F mag-rf at some point during your run and use the wizard stones you recieve from oilboyles / norg to refine 100 firagas, stick it on your elm-atk (depending on your setup this can be automatic with auto-atk) tri-point always starts off fire weak and a single attack should kill him (I use squall as my main damage dealer so I have a semi-critical hit, I haven't tested with other characters)
doesn't save much time but every little helps eh?

I also ran into a horrible glitch on a recent run video hidden below

[hidden]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOJ3aD38jg8[/hidden]

I'm assuming it was caused by the fast disk speed option.  I think this would end a single segment run unless you reaaally know all your menuing. saving and reloading caused it to go away

as for a segmented run.... well I'm not the person to do it, it'd have to be on PC to improve on that 7.58, and I just don't like playing this game on the PC, however, if anyone IS interested in doing an improved run or wants to chat about a segmented run (or just chat about this game regardless) let me know as I spent a fair amount of time planning a route and could probably help you out

oh also the garden civil war, it seems to me the fastest route is infirmiry, quad, cafateria, but you have to talk to the middle guy in quad (gives you an x-potion) and the girl leaning against the counter in cafateria (gives you gyshal green) otherwise Xu doesn't appear. however I've never timed this route against others so I might be wrong

Sush

2012-12-15 03:49:11 pm

Always said if someone does a very good PSX segmented run it could take the place of mine, I wouldn't mind. Competition is fun and the sound quality wouldnt suck!

Stupid PC port...

jpic

2012-12-17 03:23:38 pm

stupid PC port indeed.
If that's how you feel about it then maybe I'll think about this some more....

How does anyone else reading this thread feel about an improved run with a slower time because of the system? I'd really appreciate other peoples opinions.
Also would the run actually be accepted? I don't know who would have a say in that

One other thing, is there anyone who checks this thread who knows how many times you need to mash square to turn the wheel 1st time in the MD level, or could anyone with the right software (an emulator?) work it out, I've still yet to get it and that'd be important for a segmented run, thanks in advance Smiley

FFgamer86

Edit history:

FFgamer86: 2012-12-20 04:23:51 am

FFgamer86: 2012-12-20 04:07:22 am

2012-12-17 04:09:21 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

I am working on a single segment FF8 Run for the PSN(PS3). My current best is now 9:43-9:44 depending on stopwatch(haven't checked yet)

My final goal is somewhere down like 9:30-9:35 but need to have a good run throughout the entire game to achieve that.

I'd submit if I get anything below 9:35. The system difference's have nothing to do with having to beat another time. It's a seperate category and if the quality of the run is better/worse than usually the better quality run is the one that usually is accepted. You can usually tell by the eye test from watching runs on different systems which one is overall faster.

I believe if I segmented FF8 on the PS3. I would be having a hard time getting anything in the 9:10-9:20 range. Yet Sush's run is under 8 hours.

EDIT:

If you got say a 8:20 with PS2 Fast Disc Speed segmented. I would say that run would "theoretically speaking" if it was better in performance and only lost time due to transition would obsolete the 7:58 run or if not, be a seperate category. It depends on the time and quality of the run

I am working on a single segment FF8 Run for the PSN(PS3). My current best is now 9:43-9:44 depending on stopwatch(haven't checked yet)

My final goal is somewhere down like 9:30-9:35 but need to have a good run throughout the entire game to achieve that.

I'd submit if I get anything below 9:35.  The system difference's have nothing to do with having to beat another time.  It's a seperate category and if the quality of the run is better/worse than usually the better quality run is the one that usually is accepted. You can usually tell by the eye test from watching runs on different systems which one is overall faster.

I believe if I segmented FF8 on the PS3. I would be having a hard time getting anything in the 9:10-9:20 range. Yet Sush's run is under 8 hours.

EDIT:

If you got say a 8:20 with PS2 Fast Disc Speed segmented. I would say that run would "theoretically speaking" if it was better in performance and only lost time due to transition would obsolete the 7:58 run or if not, be a seperate category. It depends on the time and quality of the run

jpic

2012-12-20 10:58:03 am

I appreciate the reply FFgamer. What you say makes perfect sense, and it's the little push I needed to get me going, so I will be starting work on this pretty much straight away
I'll post occasional updates in case anyone is interested, and yea my goal time will be under 8.30, how far under I'm just not sure, hopefully closer to 8.15

also good luck with that SS run, I look forward to seeing it

FFgamer86

2012-12-20 03:10:45 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

I also tested your idea for the fastest Balamb Garden Civil War route, and several other ideas that I could think of and the fastest route is still Poxnor's route of Training Center(Leave after 2nd screen) Library (Talk to Zell's Crush), and Infirmary (Let them Handle it).

Carcinogen

2012-12-22 02:01:45 am

If you're going to do segmented, just play it on a PSP with the PSN version and swap out the save files so your virtual memory cards have only 1 save each; faster loading. Also save in the first slot, load from the second slot.

jpic

2012-12-22 02:36:41 pm

but the training center corridor is soo long, heh, Thanks for the info though, I'm going to check everything I'm not 100% on as I get to it anyway but much appreciated regardless.
I will make time to upload a quality test over the weekend and then I'll start recording proper

carcinogen I don't own a PSP and haven't really got any intentions of getting one. When you say faster loading are you talking about screen transitions as well as memory card save / load times?