Final Fantasy VIII

2010-06-12 01:10:50 am

Stupid me, I lost my AP flowchart somewhere.

I would've compared that to see if I could get Card Mod one fight earlier, but I don't think it'll really make much of a difference; everything at that point in the game falls in one fight anyway.

Poxnor

2010-06-12 12:31:47 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from Carcinogen:

I would've compared that to see if I could get Card Mod one fight earlier, but I don't think it'll really make much of a difference; everything at that point in the game falls in one fight anyway.

No, with the order of ability learning used by darkwasabi (which I believe to be optimal, at least for the early part of the game), it makes no difference whether you get 14 or 18 AP, regardless of whether you've fought 1 Fastiticalon-F battle or two, with the small exception of Shiva's AP flow in the two-fish-battle case. I've attached the flow charts for both 14/18 AP, and 1/2 fishy battles (mmm...automated AP flow chart generation Wink

).

14 AP, two fishy battles (darkwasabi's run, except that I have Shiva learn Vit-J):

Code:

Opening
    - Acquired Quezacotl
    - Acquired Shiva
Ifrit: 20 AP
    - Acquired Ifrit
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
    - Shiva learned I Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
Anacondaur: 4 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card (2 AP wasted)
    - Shiva learned Boost (0 AP wasted)
Biggs, Wedge, and Elvoret: 14 AP
    - Acquired Siren
Granaldo and Raldos: 14 AP
    - Ifrit learned HP-J (0 AP wasted)
Diablos: 20 AP
    - Siren learned L Mag-RF (4 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Diablos
Gerogero: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Str-J (18 AP wasted)
Card-stealing Galbadian soldiers: 2 AP
Esthari soldiers (pair of battles): 4 AP
Esthari soldiers (four battles): 6 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card Mod (0 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Time Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
Iguions: 20 AP
Seifer: 0 AP
Edea: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Vit-J (2 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Enc-Half (10 AP wasted)

18 AP, two fishy battles (only the Biggs and Wedge part changed):

Code:

Opening
    - Acquired Quezacotl
    - Acquired Shiva
Ifrit: 20 AP
    - Acquired Ifrit
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
    - Shiva learned I Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
Anacondaur: 4 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card (2 AP wasted)
    - Shiva learned Boost (0 AP wasted)
Biggs, Wedge, and Elvoret: 18 AP
    - Acquired Siren
Granaldo and Raldos: 14 AP
    - Ifrit learned HP-J (4 AP wasted)
Diablos: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Str-J (2 AP wasted)
    - Siren learned L Mag-RF (4 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Diablos
Gerogero: 20 AP
Card-stealing Galbadian soldiers: 2 AP
Esthari soldiers (pair of battles): 4 AP
Esthari soldiers (four battles): 6 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card Mod (4 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Time Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
Iguions: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Vit-J (2 AP wasted)
Seifer: 0 AP
Edea: 20 AP
    - Diablos learned Enc-Half (10 AP wasted)

So, Shiva does gets an extra 20 AP towards her next ability. But, since Shiva doesn't really have anything important to learn... (Vit+% or Spr+% to help guarantee survival in the last battle, in a non-segmented setting?)

14 AP, one fishy battle (a suggested improvement by getting 5 fish fins straight off, but still only 14 AP from that boss fight):

Code:

Opening
    - Acquired Quezacotl
    - Acquired Shiva
Ifrit: 20 AP
    - Acquired Ifrit
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
    - Shiva learned I Mag-RF (0 AP wasted)
G-Soldier: 1 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
Anacondaur: 4 AP
Biggs, Wedge, and Elvoret: 14 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card (10 AP wasted)
    - Shiva learned Boost (10 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Siren
Granaldo and Raldos: 14 AP
Diablos: 20 AP
    - Ifrit learned HP-J (14 AP wasted)
    - Siren learned L Mag-RF (4 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Diablos
Gerogero: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Str-J (4 AP wasted)
Card-stealing Galbadian soldiers: 2 AP
Esthari soldiers (pair of battles): 4 AP
Esthari soldiers (four battles): 6 AP
    - Diablos learned Time Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
Iguions: 20 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card Mod (6 AP wasted)
Seifer: 0 AP
Edea: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Vit-J (2 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Enc-Half (10 AP wasted)

18 AP, one fishy battle (both changes made):

Code:

Opening
    - Acquired Quezacotl
    - Acquired Shiva
Ifrit: 20 AP
    - Acquired Ifrit
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
    - Shiva learned I Mag-RF (0 AP wasted)
G-Soldier: 1 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
Anacondaur: 4 AP
Biggs, Wedge, and Elvoret: 18 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card (14 AP wasted)
    - Shiva learned Boost (14 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Siren
Granaldo and Raldos: 14 AP
Diablos: 20 AP
    - Ifrit learned HP-J (18 AP wasted)
    - Siren learned L Mag-RF (4 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Diablos
Gerogero: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Str-J (4 AP wasted)
Card-stealing Galbadian soldiers: 2 AP
Esthari soldiers (pair of battles): 4 AP
Esthari soldiers (four battles): 6 AP
    - Diablos learned Time Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
Iguions: 20 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card Mod (6 AP wasted)
Seifer: 0 AP
Edea: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Vit-J (2 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Enc-Half (10 AP wasted)

In the case of fighting one fishy battle, the extra 4 AP makes no difference, since so much AP is wasted by Quezacotl, Shiva, and Ifrit in this flow chart.

[quote="Carcinogen"]
I would've compared that to see if I could get Card Mod one fight earlier, but I don't think it'll really make much of a difference; everything at that point in the game falls in one fight anyway.
[/quote]

No, with the order of ability learning used by darkwasabi (which I believe to be optimal, at least for the early part of the game), it makes no difference whether you get 14 or 18 AP, regardless of whether you've fought 1 Fastiticalon-F battle or two, with the small exception of Shiva's AP flow in the two-fish-battle case.  I've attached the flow charts for both 14/18 AP, and 1/2 fishy battles (mmm...automated AP flow chart generation ;) ).

14 AP, two fishy battles (darkwasabi's run, except that I have Shiva learn Vit-J):
[code]
Opening
    - Acquired Quezacotl
    - Acquired Shiva
Ifrit: 20 AP
    - Acquired Ifrit
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
    - Shiva learned I Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
Anacondaur: 4 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card (2 AP wasted)
    - Shiva learned Boost (0 AP wasted)
Biggs, Wedge, and Elvoret: 14 AP
    - Acquired Siren
Granaldo and Raldos: 14 AP
    - Ifrit learned HP-J (0 AP wasted)
Diablos: 20 AP
    - Siren learned L Mag-RF (4 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Diablos
Gerogero: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Str-J (18 AP wasted)
Card-stealing Galbadian soldiers: 2 AP
Esthari soldiers (pair of battles): 4 AP
Esthari soldiers (four battles): 6 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card Mod (0 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Time Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
Iguions: 20 AP
Seifer: 0 AP
Edea: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Vit-J (2 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Enc-Half (10 AP wasted)
[/code]

18 AP, two fishy battles (only the Biggs and Wedge part changed):
[code]

Opening
    - Acquired Quezacotl
    - Acquired Shiva
Ifrit: 20 AP
    - Acquired Ifrit
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
    - Shiva learned I Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
Anacondaur: 4 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card (2 AP wasted)
    - Shiva learned Boost (0 AP wasted)
Biggs, Wedge, and Elvoret: 18 AP
    - Acquired Siren
Granaldo and Raldos: 14 AP
    - Ifrit learned HP-J (4 AP wasted)
Diablos: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Str-J (2 AP wasted)
    - Siren learned L Mag-RF (4 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Diablos
Gerogero: 20 AP
Card-stealing Galbadian soldiers: 2 AP
Esthari soldiers (pair of battles): 4 AP
Esthari soldiers (four battles): 6 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card Mod (4 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Time Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
Iguions: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Vit-J (2 AP wasted)
Seifer: 0 AP
Edea: 20 AP
    - Diablos learned Enc-Half (10 AP wasted)
[/code]
So, Shiva does gets an extra 20 AP towards her next ability.  But, since Shiva doesn't really have anything important to learn... (Vit+% or Spr+% to help guarantee survival in the last battle, in a non-segmented setting?)

14 AP, one fishy battle (a suggested improvement by getting 5 fish fins straight off, but still only 14 AP from that boss fight):
[code]
Opening
    - Acquired Quezacotl
    - Acquired Shiva
Ifrit: 20 AP
    - Acquired Ifrit
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
    - Shiva learned I Mag-RF (0 AP wasted)
G-Soldier: 1 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
Anacondaur: 4 AP
Biggs, Wedge, and Elvoret: 14 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card (10 AP wasted)
    - Shiva learned Boost (10 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Siren
Granaldo and Raldos: 14 AP
Diablos: 20 AP
    - Ifrit learned HP-J (14 AP wasted)
    - Siren learned L Mag-RF (4 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Diablos
Gerogero: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Str-J (4 AP wasted)
Card-stealing Galbadian soldiers: 2 AP
Esthari soldiers (pair of battles): 4 AP
Esthari soldiers (four battles): 6 AP
    - Diablos learned Time Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
Iguions: 20 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card Mod (6 AP wasted)
Seifer: 0 AP
Edea: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Vit-J (2 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Enc-Half (10 AP wasted)
[/code]

18 AP, one fishy battle (both changes made):
[code]
Opening
    - Acquired Quezacotl
    - Acquired Shiva
Ifrit: 20 AP
    - Acquired Ifrit
Fastitocalon-F x 2: 6 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
G-Soldier x 2: 2 AP
    - Shiva learned I Mag-RF (0 AP wasted)
G-Soldier: 1 AP
G-Soldier: 1 AP
Anacondaur: 4 AP
Biggs, Wedge, and Elvoret: 18 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card (14 AP wasted)
    - Shiva learned Boost (14 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Siren
Granaldo and Raldos: 14 AP
Diablos: 20 AP
    - Ifrit learned HP-J (18 AP wasted)
    - Siren learned L Mag-RF (4 AP wasted)
    - Acquired Diablos
Gerogero: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Str-J (4 AP wasted)
Card-stealing Galbadian soldiers: 2 AP
Esthari soldiers (pair of battles): 4 AP
Esthari soldiers (four battles): 6 AP
    - Diablos learned Time Mag-RF (2 AP wasted)
Iguions: 20 AP
    - Quezacotl learned Card Mod (6 AP wasted)
Seifer: 0 AP
Edea: 20 AP
    - Shiva learned Vit-J (2 AP wasted)
    - Diablos learned Enc-Half (10 AP wasted)
[/code]
In the case of fighting one fishy battle, the extra 4 AP makes no difference, since so much AP is wasted by Quezacotl, Shiva, and Ifrit in this flow chart.

Carcinogen

2010-06-12 12:46:39 pm

Yep, you've gotta get 12AP from the Fastitocalons.

Are you seriously going for an SS, out of curiousity?

Poxnor

2010-06-12 01:02:14 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from Carcinogen:

Are you seriously going for an SS, out of curiousity?

The Speed Gamers' Community is doing an FF marathon in August (http://community.thespeedgamers.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8323), and I'll be doing VIII. There's no way it will be SDA quality (I'm just not that quick in the menus, I'll be saving, etc.). But I still want it to be good quality Smiley

Carcinogen

2010-06-12 01:05:43 pm

Oh, word =D

I look forward to it.

Poxnor

2010-06-12 01:13:41 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Thanks!

Ideally, I don't want to have to reload from a save (so it'll be single-segment, with saves "just in case"). But, I'm particularly worried about the opening (anything before Gerogero) and the ending. I haven't practiced the fighting mini-games yet (Galbadia Garden attack and Laguna's dragon), so I'll have to see how much of a pain those will be Wink

Carcinogen

2010-06-12 02:07:23 pm

The Ruby Dragon minigame is dreadfully easy.

Fighting the Galbadian soldier on the other hand, is a pain in the ass. Squall isn't so tough without his gunblade =[

Poxnor

2010-06-13 01:57:11 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from quezacotl21:

- 2nd Laguna dream: Isn't it faster to go down the first ladder (north on the screen where you fought the soldiers)?

I can confirm that it is faster to take the other ladder than the one darkwasabi used. Even though there's a bunch of dialogue when you take the other ladder, it still winds up being about 8 seconds faster because there's significantly less distance to walk.

Cheers
--Poxnor

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2010-06-18 11:43:08 pm

2010-06-18 09:19:00 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

I'm looking at the Missile Base portion of the game right now, and I was hoping that someone could help clarify things for me. Is there any particular reason that darkwasabi chose the party that he did for the Missile Base / Balamb Garden split up?

Obviously, Selphie has to go to the Missile Base, and Irvine is needed to kill the tank. Conversely, Squall has to go to Balamb Garden. But, is there any reason that Rinoa is chosen as the final person in Selphie's party (as opposed to Quistis or Zell), or is it arbitrary?

Edit: After thinking about it a bit -- is it because you eliminate Rinoa pestering you for a tour of Balamb Garden after Garden starts flying, with Rinoa not being in Squall's party?

(Also, I think there might be a very minor time saver in the Missile Base. When Selphie shuts off the lights by mashing the console in the circuit room, her animation is a fair bit shorter if you choose the second option the first time, and the top option the second time).

Poxnor

2010-06-19 12:05:33 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

For the fraction of a second it would save (pfft, barely worth writing this message ::)), the error ratio of the missiles in the Missile Base does not have to be set to maximum. It can be set to one bar less than the maximum (yahoo...)

Wuv

2010-06-19 12:18:50 am

Quote from Poxnor:

For the fraction of a second it would save (pfft, barely worth writing this message ::)), the error ratio of the missiles in the Missile Base does not have to be set to maximum. It can be set to one bar less than the maximum (yahoo...)

gj man, with that attention to detail you could be a TASer ^_^

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2010-06-19 03:49:16 pm

2010-06-19 03:37:05 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from Wuv:

gj man, with that attention to detail you could be a TASer ^_^

Heh, thanks Smiley

I have some comments about the NORG vs. Cid portion of the game (when you're running around 1F of Balamb Garden until Xu appears, right after the Missile Base explosion).

Earlier in this thread, it was presented that you do not have to visit the Quad in order to make Xu appear; visiting the library, training centre, and infirmary sufficed. I ran a few trials trying to figure out when, exactly, Xu appears. My results are not terribly clear:

When I do the following, Xu does not appear:

Swear for NORG at entrance
Go to library
Defeat faculty at library entrance
Enter library to trigger automatic conversation
Go to the training centre
Ignore the fight
Go to the infirmary
Ignore the fight

However, the following steps do make Xu appear:

Swear for NORG at entrance
Go to library
Defeat faculty at library entrance
Enter library to trigger automatic conversation
Talk to the girl with the crush on Zell to get a Mega Phoenix
Go to the training centre
Ignore the fight
Go to the infirmary
Ignore the fight

I've also been able to trigger Xu appearing without visiting the library at all (e.g., by visiting all the other wings of Garden).

In short, Xu's appearance is not triggered by completing a fixed set of the wings of Garden. It is also not even triggered by just how many wings of Garden you visit (compare the steps above which did work with those that didn't).

If anyone with a PSX emulator would like to try mapping out memory during this section of the game, it could be interesting to see what is happening in terms of a trigger for making Xu appear. Regardless, I'm reasonably confident that the above set of instructions that worked is the fastest way to make Xu appear (the three wings you visit are the least out-of-the-way; and, I couldn't find a two-wing solution that makes Xu appear, though I didn't try all the combinations).

[quote="Wuv"]
gj man, with that attention to detail you could be a TASer ^_^
[/quote]

Heh, thanks :)

I have some comments about the NORG vs. Cid portion of the game (when you're running around 1F of Balamb Garden until Xu appears, right after the Missile Base explosion).

Earlier in this thread, it was presented that you do not have to visit the Quad in order to make Xu appear; visiting the library, training centre, and infirmary sufficed.  I ran a few trials trying to figure out when, exactly, Xu appears.  My results are not terribly clear:

When I do the following, Xu does [b]not[/b] appear:
[list]
[li]Swear for NORG at entrance[/li]
[li]Go to library[/li]
[li]Defeat faculty at library entrance[/li]
[li]Enter library to trigger automatic conversation[/li]
[li]Go to the training centre[/li]
[li]Ignore the fight[/li]
[li]Go to the infirmary[/li]
[li]Ignore the fight[/li]
[/list]

However, the following steps [b]do[/b] make Xu appear:
[list]
[li]Swear for NORG at entrance[/li]
[li]Go to library[/li]
[li]Defeat faculty at library entrance[/li]
[li]Enter library to trigger automatic conversation[/li]
[li][i]Talk to the girl with the crush on Zell to get a Mega Phoenix[/i][/li]
[li]Go to the training centre[/li]
[li]Ignore the fight[/li]
[li]Go to the infirmary[/li]
[li]Ignore the fight[/li]
[/list]

I've also been able to trigger Xu appearing without visiting the library at all (e.g., by visiting all the other wings of Garden).

In short, Xu's appearance is not triggered by completing a fixed set of the wings of Garden.  It is also not even triggered by just how many wings of Garden you visit (compare the steps above which did work with those that didn't).

If anyone with a PSX emulator would like to try mapping out memory during this section of the game, it could be interesting to see what is happening in terms of a trigger for making Xu appear.  Regardless, I'm reasonably confident that the above set of instructions that worked is the fastest way to make Xu appear (the three wings you visit are the least out-of-the-way; and, I couldn't find a two-wing solution that makes Xu appear, though I didn't try all the combinations).

Guest

2010-06-20 03:03:01 pm

@poxnor

Nice. Maybe there will finally be a TSG "run" that doesn't suck. Keep it up.

posting as guest for a reason

gyth

2010-06-21 07:22:56 am

Quote:

Ideally, I don't want to have to reload from a save

There are some things that don't transfer well from speed to single segment.

Here are some notes on a half-day no-card no-level single segment I was working on last year (I think I was inspired by a speed gamer marathon)
[[has rinoa taking out ulti with meteor wing]]

Its pretty cryptic, but if you'd like to know more, let me know. (the J refers to squall)

Code:

*Ifrit <<FIRE, cure>> __T-RF STR20__
*Dollet (~800 seifer) __F-RF__
 <<blind>>
*Biggs<<thunder2>> / Elvoret (blind J)  @@@  S I R E N  @@@
*X-ATM092
 grats <<silence>>
*Granaldo (silence J (already? blind)) __quez(HP-J) STR20 L-RF__

YN YYY NNY NN
YN YYY NYY NN

NN YNY YYN YN
NY YYN NYY NN
NN NYY NNY YY

YN YYN NYY NY
YY YYY YNY YN

 wizard stones -> thundaga on J
*Diablos (sil/bli?) [after/during dream??] __ENC.5__
*Gerogero (pheonix down)
*Timber (~400 rinoa) (get 2ap from random)
 sell mags, 3 magic scr, 10+ tents -> curaga
*Dream (~400 laguna/squall) __CARD STR40 TOOL-RF ENC0__
 L, down ladder, 2nd plate, far & close fuses, push boulder; <<haste>>
*Sacred <<berserk3>> (kill right after a regen tick) (silence/blind)
*Sacred, Minotaur (kill sacred first)
*Iguion  @@@  C A R B U N C L E  @@@
*Seifer / Edea (haste/berserk) __CARDMOD HP40 ST-RF carb(HP-J)__
*Prison (~200 Zell)
*Biggs and Wedge
*Prison (1ap ~100 zell if you're caught, should be fine)
 (squall,rinoa [ZELL,quistis,selphie]) UP
*GIM25A __F-RF__
 (squall [quistis,IRVINE,ZELL,rinoa])
 walk casually past the first guard, lower left, top, left, back to 1st guard,
 random buttons, "just about to call them", help push, max error, upload, right
*Missile Base (~400 quistis/rinoa)
*BGH251F2 (haste/berserk/thundaga) __TIME-RF__
*(br)Balamb Garden
 Library; 2nd choice, break grat, remedy from girl between bookcases
 Training center; leave after seeing students running
 Infirmary; "Let them handle it"
 Directory; follow xu to 2nd floor, near balcony
*Oilboyles (haste/berserk/firaga)
 balcony
*NORG (sil/bli) __diab(HP-J) SUPT-RF__  @@@  L E V I A T H A N  @@@
 infirmary, balcony, libary; balcony, mayor's house in the middle, right
*(br)FH / BGH251F2 (haste/berserk/thundaga/meltdown)
 Balamb; people at entrance, zell's mom, hotel guards, dock soldier,
 zell's house, train station?, dock dog, train station, hotel
*Raijin, G-Soldier x2 / Raijin, Fujin (haste/berserk/bio) __HP80 MUG SPD-J__
  @@@  P A N D E M O N A  @@@
 trabia, left, <<aura>>; ram galbadia garden (near orphanage)
 Quad; J>Z?, left; Z>J, Classroom (need enc0?)
*(br)Galbadia Soilders
 w/ R <<aura>>
 RRULR [Card Key 1]; downstairs, LL, past rink, R [Card Key 2]
 SSRRR, up stairs, jump, <<shell>>, left, south
*Cerberus (silence/blind/aura/meltdown) __SPD-J__
 LL [Card Key 3]; N from Cerberus, up stairs, N to elevator
*Seifer (a)
*Seifer, Edea (a,m)  @@@  A L E X A N D E R  @@@
 orphanage; infimary
*Dream (~900 kiros/selphie) (am)
 orphanage, letter from edea, white ship, FH, salt lake
*Abadon (elixer)
*Dream (~1k on I/kiros, but shouldn't level)
*(BR) (BR XX BR); up, odine, leave, reenter, down
*(XX XX BR); follow odine
*(BR BR) (XX XX)
 lunar gate (send Q); odine, right, north, left, board lunatic pandora
*(br)LP
 <meteor>, left tube, grab Spd-J(quez), north
 infirmary, north, set R down, go upstairs, control room
 rinoa, control room, airlock, control room, L, escape pod
*Propagators __Q(mag20)S(spr20)D(hp20)C(hp20)L(spr20)A(spr20)__
 Down purple, go north, run left past red, purple, back to red, up to red,
 down right green, left to elevator green, left yellow, south yellow
 sorc memorial, edea's house, easther airstation, palace; Lunatic Pandora
*Fujin, Raijin (amm)
*Mobile Type 8 (am) __Q(mag40)S(spr40)D(hp40)C(hp40)L(spr40)A(spr40)__
*Seifer (am)
*Adel (mug samantha soul->triple) (am)
*6 Sorceress A, 5 Sorceress B, Sorceress C (am)
*Tri-Point (thundaga def, firaga atk) [limit]
 exit to refine hyperdrive->triple
*Tiamat (firaga def) [magic]
 shiv diab pand ## sire carb cerb alex
  (hp40,spr20/40)
  quake - - break curaga haste  <curaga, triple, shell, haste, esuna>
 quez ifri bros levi
  (hp80,mag40,spr40)
  curaga - - triple esuna haste  <aura (meteor)>
*Ultimecia (a)

[quote]Ideally, I don't want to have to reload from a save[/quote]

There are some things that don't transfer well from speed to single segment.

Here are some notes on a half-day no-card no-level single segment I was working on last year (I think I was inspired by a speed gamer marathon)
[[has rinoa taking out ulti with meteor wing]]

Its pretty cryptic, but if you'd like to know more, let me know. (the J refers to squall)

[code]
*Ifrit <<FIRE, cure>> __T-RF STR20__
*Dollet (~800 seifer) __F-RF__
 <<blind>>
*Biggs<<thunder2>> / Elvoret (blind J)  @@@  S I R E N  @@@
*X-ATM092
 grats <<silence>>
*Granaldo (silence J (already? blind)) __quez(HP-J) STR20 L-RF__

YN YYY NNY NN
YN YYY NYY NN

NN YNY YYN YN
NY YYN NYY NN
NN NYY NNY YY

YN YYN NYY NY
YY YYY YNY YN

wizard stones -> thundaga on J
*Diablos (sil/bli?) [after/during dream??] __ENC.5__
*Gerogero (pheonix down)
*Timber (~400 rinoa) (get 2ap from random)
 sell mags, 3 magic scr, 10+ tents -> curaga
*Dream (~400 laguna/squall) __CARD STR40 TOOL-RF ENC0__
 L, down ladder, 2nd plate, far & close fuses, push boulder; <<haste>>
*Sacred <<berserk3>> (kill right after a regen tick) (silence/blind)
*Sacred, Minotaur (kill sacred first)
*Iguion  @@@  C A R B U N C L E  @@@
*Seifer / Edea (haste/berserk) __CARDMOD HP40 ST-RF carb(HP-J)__
*Prison (~200 Zell)
*Biggs and Wedge
*Prison (1ap ~100 zell if you're caught, should be fine)
 (squall,rinoa [ZELL,quistis,selphie]) UP
*GIM25A __F-RF__
 (squall [quistis,IRVINE,ZELL,rinoa])
 walk casually past the first guard, lower left, top, left, back to 1st guard,
 random buttons, "just about to call them", help push, max error, upload, right
*Missile Base (~400 quistis/rinoa)
*BGH251F2 (haste/berserk/thundaga) __TIME-RF__
*(br)Balamb Garden
 Library; 2nd choice, break grat, remedy from girl between bookcases
 Training center; leave after seeing students running
 Infirmary; "Let them handle it"
 Directory; follow xu to 2nd floor, near balcony
*Oilboyles (haste/berserk/firaga)
 balcony
*NORG (sil/bli) __diab(HP-J) SUPT-RF__  @@@  L E V I A T H A N  @@@
 infirmary, balcony, libary; balcony, mayor's house in the middle, right
*(br)FH / BGH251F2 (haste/berserk/thundaga/meltdown)
 Balamb; people at entrance, zell's mom, hotel guards, dock soldier,
 zell's house, train station?, dock dog, train station, hotel
*Raijin, G-Soldier x2 / Raijin, Fujin (haste/berserk/bio) __HP80 MUG SPD-J__
  @@@  P A N D E M O N A  @@@
 trabia, left, <<aura>>; ram galbadia garden (near orphanage)
 Quad; J>Z?, left; Z>J, Classroom (need enc0?)
*(br)Galbadia Soilders
 w/ R <<aura>>
 RRULR [Card Key 1]; downstairs, LL, past rink, R [Card Key 2]
 SSRRR, up stairs, jump, <<shell>>, left, south
*Cerberus (silence/blind/aura/meltdown) __SPD-J__
 LL [Card Key 3]; N from Cerberus, up stairs, N to elevator
*Seifer (a)
*Seifer, Edea (a,m)  @@@  A L E X A N D E R  @@@
 orphanage; infimary
*Dream (~900 kiros/selphie) (am)
 orphanage, letter from edea, white ship, FH, salt lake
*Abadon (elixer)
*Dream (~1k on I/kiros, but shouldn't level)
*(BR) (BR XX BR); up, odine, leave, reenter, down
*(XX XX BR); follow odine
*(BR BR) (XX XX)
 lunar gate (send Q); odine, right, north, left, board lunatic pandora
*(br)LP
 <meteor>, left tube, grab Spd-J(quez), north
 infirmary, north, set R down, go upstairs, control room
 rinoa, control room, airlock, control room, L, escape pod
*Propagators __Q(mag20)S(spr20)D(hp20)C(hp20)L(spr20)A(spr20)__
 Down purple, go north, run left past red, purple, back to red, up to red,
 down right green, left to elevator green, left yellow, south yellow
 sorc memorial, edea's house, easther airstation, palace; Lunatic Pandora
*Fujin, Raijin (amm)
*Mobile Type 8 (am) __Q(mag40)S(spr40)D(hp40)C(hp40)L(spr40)A(spr40)__
*Seifer (am)
*Adel (mug samantha soul->triple) (am)
*6 Sorceress A, 5 Sorceress B, Sorceress C (am)
*Tri-Point (thundaga def, firaga atk) [limit]
 exit to refine hyperdrive->triple
*Tiamat (firaga def) [magic]
 shiv diab pand ## sire carb cerb alex
  (hp40,spr20/40)
  quake - - break curaga haste  <curaga, triple, shell, haste, esuna>
 quez ifri bros levi
  (hp80,mag40,spr40)
  curaga - - triple esuna haste  <aura (meteor)>
*Ultimecia (a)[/code]

Poxnor

2010-06-21 10:48:18 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from gyth:

Here are some notes on a half-day no-card no-level single segment I was working on last year (I think I was inspired by a speed gamer marathon)
[[has rinoa taking out ulti with meteor wing]]

Its pretty cryptic, but if you'd like to know more, let me know. (the J refers to squall)

Thanks for the notes, gyth. You are right; they are a little cryptic, lol Wink

That said, I can't imagine that at least getting the Quistis card wouldn't pay off in terms of time saved from all the Triples. Once you have both the Ifrit and Diablos cards, the Trepie in the cafeteria can theoretically play you to a draw with the strength of cards he typically plays alongside the Quistis card, but he'll make a mistake soon enough.

I'm not convinced that getting the Zell card is worth the time, since Zell's mom sometimes takes quite a while to play his card. My plan for the moment is to get it (the Str+60% saves me in, e.g., the Oilboyle fight, which can go south very quickly if I don't do enough damage), but I may revise that plan...

Cheers
--Poxnor

[quote="gyth"]
Here are some notes on a half-day no-card no-level single segment I was working on last year (I think I was inspired by a speed gamer marathon)
[[has rinoa taking out ulti with meteor wing]]

Its pretty cryptic, but if you'd like to know more, let me know. (the J refers to squall)
[/quote]
Thanks for the notes, gyth.  You are right; they are a little cryptic, lol ;)

That said, I can't imagine that at least getting the Quistis card wouldn't pay off in terms of time saved from all the Triples.  Once you have both the Ifrit and Diablos cards, the Trepie in the cafeteria can theoretically play you to a draw with the strength of cards he typically plays alongside the Quistis card, but he'll make a mistake soon enough.

I'm not convinced that getting the Zell card is worth the time, since Zell's mom sometimes takes quite a while to play his card.  My plan for the moment is to get it (the Str+60% saves me in, e.g., the Oilboyle fight, which can go south very quickly if I don't do enough damage), but I may revise that plan...

Cheers
--Poxnor

gyth

2010-06-21 12:04:11 pm

Quote from Poxnor:

That said, I can't imagine that at least getting the Quistis card wouldn't pay off in terms of time saved from all the Triples.

I think it depends on how much time you think you'll lose playing for the card.
In a speed game you'll luck manipulate it to always have it the first game, but in SS you could blow a lot of time.

With decent luck it probably would be faster.
I setup my run to avoid "lucky" things for its own sake, not because I calculated it being faster on average.

Are you doing limits for oilboyle?
I found berserk/hasting one and the other two keeping everyone at full health to be more stable. (though obviously slower)

P.S. __this is stuff for GFs to learn__ <<this is stuff to draw>>

Poxnor

2010-06-21 12:25:43 pm

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Quote from gyth:

I think it depends on how much time you think you'll lose playing for the card.
In a speed game you'll luck manipulate it to always have it the first game, but in SS you could blow a lot of time.

Are you doing limits for oilboyle?
I found berserk/hasting one and the other two keeping everyone at full health to be more stable. (though obviously slower)

The Quistis card I've always gotten within a few games of Triple Triad, and given how quick (and safe) it makes boss battles, it's a definite win. The Zell card has sometimes taken quite a few games of Triple Triad, though. On the flip side, I wonder if I'd have to get Brother if I didn't get the Zell card? I don't get Brother in my current route. And, if I do have bad luck with the PRNG and wind up having to play a few games for the Zell card, I'll inevitably get the cards necessary to upgrade Squall's gunblade during the occupation of Balamb (not that it makes a significant difference to upgrade his gunblade, but it does give me a "safety cushion" in terms of damage dealt).

For the Oilboyles, I use a few Hi-potions before the battle to get Squall and Quistis to nearly full health (~2000 HP). One hit from Squall (Str+60%, 100 Triples) and one hit from Quistis (Str+60%, 80 triples) kills an Oilboyle. They have an attack that can do something like 500 damage to the entire party, and another that reduces a single party member's HP by 62.5%. Put together...ick (and the Oilboyles are stupidly fast). That's why I was going for the rapid-kill approach, as opposed to trying to heal during the battle.

[quote="gyth"]
I think it depends on how much time you think you'll lose playing for the card.
In a speed game you'll luck manipulate it to always have it the first game, but in SS you could blow a lot of time.

Are you doing limits for oilboyle?
I found berserk/hasting one and the other two keeping everyone at full health to be more stable. (though obviously slower)
[/quote]
The Quistis card I've always gotten within a few games of Triple Triad, and given how quick (and safe) it makes boss battles, it's a definite win.  The Zell card has sometimes taken quite a few games of Triple Triad, though.  On the flip side, I wonder if I'd have to get Brother if I didn't get the Zell card?  I don't get Brother in my current route.  And, if I do have bad luck with the PRNG and wind up having to play a few games for the Zell card, I'll inevitably get the cards necessary to upgrade Squall's gunblade during the occupation of Balamb (not that it makes a significant difference to upgrade his gunblade, but it does give me a "safety cushion" in terms of damage dealt).

For the Oilboyles, I use a few Hi-potions before the battle to get Squall and Quistis to nearly full health (~2000 HP).  One hit from Squall (Str+60%, 100 Triples) and one hit from Quistis (Str+60%, 80 triples) kills an Oilboyle.  They have an attack that can do something like 500 damage to the entire party, and another that reduces a single party member's HP by 62.5%.  Put together...ick (and the Oilboyles are stupidly fast).  That's why I was going for the rapid-kill approach, as opposed to trying to heal during the battle.

Poxnor

2010-06-22 11:39:10 am

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Quote from Poxnor:

On the flip side, I wonder if I'd have to get Brother if I didn't get the Zell card?

Ack, pay no attention to the dumb things I sometimes write. I was thinking Brother could learn Str+60%. That's Bahamut (whom I am most certainly not getting) :-[

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2010-06-27 03:46:02 pm

2010-06-27 03:10:19 pm

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For my marathon run, I'm using an AI to help me win at Triple Triad. I didn't think there'd be any interest in the code on the SDA boards, but Essentia encouraged me to post it here. Not practical for a segmented run, but if anyone wants to do a single-segment or marathon run, it could be helpful Smiley

It's written in Java, and should run anywhere. On OS X or Unix, follow the compilation and execution instructions in the readme. If you're using Windows, you can probably just use a command line javac to compile the code? (I don't have a Windows box, so I don't know the usual procedure for compiling Java code there.)

Edit: Added a precompiled jar file for people who don't care about the code, but just want the program. Run it as follows:

Code:

java -jar triadHelper.jar

Attachments:

triadHelper.jar

TripleTriad.tgz

nillut

2010-07-01 11:37:26 pm

I think the reason darkwasabi sends Rinoa to the Missile Base is that you get a little bit of extra cinematic when you visit the 2F deck of B-Garden if she's in your party. It's just a guess though as I don't know how it will affect the cutscene efter you take out the Ironclad (BFG-528 or something like that?) in FH.

Carcinogen

2010-07-01 11:39:04 pm

That is correct.

Poxnor

2010-07-03 11:39:02 pm

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Thanks to both of you for the help!

I think I may have found another minor time-saver. This one is when you visit Trabia Garden (after the occupation of Balamb is finished). There is an automatic party selection dialog as you leave Balamb. If you take Selphie and Irvine with you (as opposed to Zell and Irvine), you save about five seconds of cinematic as you enter Trabia Garden. Unless there's something later on that I'm missing (entirely possible, given my track record! Smiley

), I can't see any problem with taking Selphie in your party here.

nokia3311

2010-07-04 02:35:49 am

Will you upload your segments on youtube, when they are finished?
Or do we have to wait for the verification process?

Poxnor

2010-07-04 10:10:27 pm

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Quote from nokia3311:

Will you upload your segments on youtube, when they are finished?

Heh, there's no way that I'm skilled enough to submit a run to SDA. I'll be doing an SS run for an upcoming TSG community marathon: http://community.thespeedgamers.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8323

Poxnor

2010-07-04 11:59:55 pm

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Another one of my tiny -- nay, silly! -- timesavers. When you attack Galbadia Garden, you have to give out orders to Balamb Garden. If you choose to give no orders to Balamb Garden, you incur some extra dialogue and a bunch of moaning ("What am I thinking?") from Squall, as the three necessary orders get issued anyway (preparing for attack, preparing the defences, and protecting the junior classmen).

If you issue those three orders (as opposed to issuing none), the extra time spent in the order menu is worth it to remove all the extra talk and emoting. You save about 1 second by issuing those three orders, compared to issuing none.

Alternately, you can issue just a single order (protect the junior classmen), and it takes approximately the same amount of time as issuing all three orders (it restores some of the additional dialogue and emoting not to issue all three orders, but you still eliminate some of it by issuing the one order; and, you have to do less in the orders menu by issuing only one).

Another one of my tiny -- nay, silly! -- timesavers.  When you attack Galbadia Garden, you have to give out orders to Balamb Garden.  If you choose to give no orders to Balamb Garden, you incur some extra dialogue and a bunch of moaning ("What am I thinking?") from Squall, as the three necessary orders get issued anyway (preparing for attack, preparing the defences, and protecting the junior classmen).

If you issue those three orders (as opposed to issuing none), the extra time spent in the order menu is worth it to remove all the extra talk and emoting.  You save about 1 second by issuing those three orders, compared to issuing none.

Alternately, you can issue just a single order (protect the junior classmen), and it takes approximately the same amount of time as issuing all three orders (it restores some of the additional dialogue and emoting not to issue all three orders, but you still eliminate some of it by issuing the one order; and, you have to do less in the orders menu by issuing only one).