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Final Fantasy VII (Any %) (Segmented) (pc) (pc)

Verifier Responses

Alrighty.  Watched the entire thing.  Not the best way to spend my day off...

A/V is fine (though it says a lot about the native video quality if this really is an HQ encode).  No cheating, just lots of good planning.

There is way too much to comment on for this run.  The only debatably "skippable" portion of the entire run is in collecting a few bonus weapons in the Gelnika, but the runner makes a great case for picking them up.  No real mistakes whatsoever, since I wouldn't expect anyone to hold themselves to the encounter rates that this run already goes to.  There are some mistakes the runner notes in the comments, but they don't add up very much in a 6+ hour run.  I'd say you could shave a minute or two, maybe?  Totally within an acceptable threshold.

As for timing, assuming there isn't something in place already, we can either do each segment from file load to file save, or we can take the time from the last segment (6:30 using the game timer) and add the segment time (runner loses control at 9:29, minus the 3 second loading process).  If it's the former, I can maybe toss together the segment lengths later today.

No Cheating detected. Audio/Video quality seems fine for me.

Not gonna point out every small movement/menu mistake. There are a fair amount of them in this run but as he stated in his comments he kept those mistakes in trade for good luck in those segments.

I do have to point out other things that waste time though:

Segment 1:
Renaming Cloud to more than 1 letter wastes time over the course of the run.
Example: Removing 2 letters from a name saves ~1 frame each time the name is mentioned
(not gonna be picky here because many runners tend to rename the main character)

Segment 6:
No paralyze dodge glitch(enabling movement at a textbox/event) in the restaurant which would save ~3 seconds:
You need to talk to an NPC at the same time as you ask to have a seat. And by running into the kitchen you can override the eating-animation with the much shorter kitchen raid-animation.

Segment 7:
No paralyze dodge glitch in the bar which would save ~12 seconds.
Also going up the table in the Torture room instead of down in Corneos mansion wastes a second because Cloud has to run back a longer when when he sees Tifa.

Segment 10:
Good but not perfect elevator sequence: Perfect would be getting only 1 random encounter but the chance of that happening is around 1/1845

Segment 12:
Taking Barrett and Tifa when leaving Midgar saves a textbox.

Segment 13:
Re-entering the reactor removes Sephiroth from the screen so he isn't blocking your way.

Segment 15:
Blowing the whistle twice is slower than going to the right jump spot and just whistle once.

Segment 29:
Didn't run past the NPC at the Temple entrance which wastes ~18 seconds.

Segment 32:
Menuing could've been done during the skip and saving the menuing time later.

Segment 41:
Mistake at freeing Tifa(2-3 seconds)

Segment 47:
Not a good submarine minigame attempt (wastes ~8 seconds)

Segment 50:
Picking up Heavens Cloud is not needed and wastes time.

My decision: Accept

Overall a very solid run and worth of replacing the old and outdated run currently on SDA. Even though its not perfect and can probably be improved by ~2-3 minutes by improving movement/menuing, getting better escape luck and going for all the stuff I mentioned above. Going for that will require even more patience and failed attempts than the runner showed for this run.

I'm also not sure on how the timing for the last segment has to be handled, so I'm joining with [above] on his idea.

No cheating what I can see, video is good, audio is absolutely horrible, how on Earth did this get through quality con... oh wait, PC version. My apologies Mr. Runner, and my condoleances for sitting through countless hours of abysmal MIDI.

Consulting the rules about timing, they state the following: "We prefer to use consistent in-game timers wherever possible. If an in-game timer isn't available, a simple real-time measure is used. Timing begins when the player first gains control of the game's character, and stops when control is lost after the final event in a game. For segmented runs, timing for a segment stops at the first system-dependent activity, usually the actual saving. When loading, timing resumes at the point when the game was saving or displaying the password. [...] We do not apply a penalty for segmentation in games where saves can only be performed at save points or in games where players warp to a predefined location upon reloading, since only being able to save at save points or reload at warp points is itself a restriction on segmentation. [...] Some games have a timer that can't be seen at the end of the game. In most of these cases the timer will be ignored. For some games, however, such timers are displayed on a menu screen that would be visible before the final event in the game; if this is the case, that time will be noted and real time will be appended from that point."

So... it can go any way and I'll adher to whatever the general consenus turns out to be.

The runners own comments and the previous verifiers have pointed out the minor mistakes that exist and I don't feel that they add up to become a large detriment to a run which is largely solidly executed and well planned out.


Cheats: None detected

A/V: Good (wow midi’s suck so bad I need to mod my pc version…)
The only issue here is the odd splitting of segments into two parts if its over ~10-12 minutes, but this is a minor annoyance to downloading and viewing not a major issue.

Time: (IGT) 6:30 + (last seg) 9:28 = (final SDA time) 6:39:28
Not sure if the game timer counts cut scenes so I just counted load to final hit as per SDA timing rules

To be honest the other verifier’s comments would make anything I have to add seem useless or trite, but regardless I will try and add something of use. From what I have seen this run is solid as a rock and I can’t really see any more flaws other then what have been stated. The only thing I dislike is the naming of the main character which loses time over the course of the entire run the amount of time I’m unsure of, but it is kind of a personal gripe.
The luck manipulation is at a level I would expect from a segmented run and it is at the level I find a sane person would keep it at. This run also skips items that a SS run needs to use and instead uses luck manipulation to save time how ever minor the time saved may be.
This run comes in at around an hour faster then the current SDA run and uses 31 less segments and is a definite improvement over what is currently posted, something very note worth even if others have mentioned it I feel it bears repeating.

Final decision:
This run is solid, it does every thing a segmented run should do I can’t think of anything else to say but that this run is an easy


Decision: Accept

Congratulations to 'Kynos!'
Thread title:  
Edit history:
Kynos: 2013-10-11 06:31:44 am
I finally got around to read this.

I am not sure if a consensus on what timing to use has been reached already but I could give you my view on it regardless.

I am aware that this game is actually affected by the latest change to SDA rules on timing (one cannot see the timer at the end of the game or after the credits). Still, as far as I can tell, at least for segmented runs in FF7, the in-game timer has traditionally been given priority and the final time was calculated the way the first verifier mentions. Obviously, this timing is much easier to implement because it makes minimal re-timing necessary. On the other hand, what timing to use should not be governed by how much effort it takes to do the timing.

However, I do see a valid point against using real-time for all the segments and dropping the in-game timer completely. I personally do not know precisely when the game-timer begins increasing after loading a save file and what time is used for saving (I am unsure what frames to look out for that indicate the ending of the loading and the saving process). Therefore, unless somebody knows this, using real-time would probably cause errors for each of the 54 segments. I do assume that the overall rounding error would probably stay in the seconds range but it seems to me that just having this potential inaccuracy is a very bad idea.

For these reasons, I advocate using the in-game timer until the menuing before Bizarro-Sephiroth and using real-time from then on until the final hit against Sephiroth.
Hmm, any more opinions?
Edit history:
Eternalspirit: 2013-11-12 05:54:13 am
Eternalspirit: 2013-11-12 05:54:12 am
Inconsistencies and inaccuracies in timing only matter if the standard is applied inconsistently. If every single run gets treated the same way, even if there ARE inaccuracies in the timing method, nobody will be given an advantage because of it.
Dragon Power Supreme
I time all runs submitted to SDA, so your run gets the same treatment as every other run/RPG run.
Real-time is just fine, since the start/end points are known and consistent for all segments.
Quote from IsraeliRD:
I time all runs submitted to SDA, so your run gets the same treatment as every other run/RPG run.
Real-time is just fine, since the start/end points are known and consistent for all segments.

Provided you hit the start and end frames accurately for real-time runs. Smiley
That's good. I was just wondering what would happen about the timing as I did not hear anything about it again.