Final Fantasy VII

2012-04-27 08:41:54 am

Professional Second Banana

lolo26's single-segment route notes are at http://www.gamespot.com/final-fantasy-vii/forum/speed-run-discussions-topic-part-v-36219315/ - it's a great route if you're looking to consistently finish runs without much risk of gameovering due to bad luck on Demon's Gate or Carry Armor. The route I used when I ran the game at AGDQ this year was mostly based on lolo26's, with a couple of minor changes like getting the long-range materia and using regular attacks with Tifa on Demon's Gate instead of Deathblows.

GarlandG

2012-05-07 02:25:00 pm

I will knock you all down!

So, how about this?

GarlandG

2012-06-04 11:04:14 am

I will knock you all down!

Not much going on here. Two new segments:

Humble

2012-06-05 02:50:39 pm

To perceive is to suffer

Great to see more progress after all this time Garland! I remember watching all your segments a year ago and searching high and low for the elusive seg. 25 (not realizing it didn't exist). Congratulations on kicking Palmer's ass and good luck with the rest of the run!

GarlandG

2012-06-06 02:15:43 am

I will knock you all down!

Thanks!

I actually get some comments now and then from people asking where the hell the rest of the videos are, not realizing it's still a work in progress. Can't really blame them when the first segment is more than five years old.

Carcinogen

2012-06-08 12:27:45 am

Demand isn't something to pursue when what you're looking at is being done for free. =p

Either way, I'm happy to see you're still working on this run. =]

One Lady Owner

2012-06-08 06:41:26 pm

Quote from Carcinogen:

Demand isn't something to pursue when what you're looking at is being done for free. =p

Tell that to the silly children complaining about why the Final Fantasy X-2 International patch isn't finished yet. :x (I've tried. Preaching to the choir, I know...) Free services are a hobby, a labor of love, not something that is owed to the audience.

And yes, happy to see more progress videos of this speed run. Smiley

GarlandG

Edit history:

GarlandG: 2012-06-10 08:30:28 am

2012-06-10 08:28:06 am

I will knock you all down!

Demons Gate is dead. Only one more to go on disc 1.

I have no name

2012-06-10 09:40:25 am

Obscure games ftw

21 more damage and that last Molotov wouldn't have been necessary, ouch.
How luck dependent is that strategy for Demon's Gate?

pyromaniac

2012-06-10 03:20:12 pm

hey hey hey!!

I can't wait to see this run be finished! It's going to be awesome! Keep up the good work Garland!

GarlandG

2012-06-11 01:29:39 pm

I will knock you all down!

Demons Gate is luck dependent enough to demand 247 attempts. Don't know the exact odds, but probably around 1%.

Anyway, here's a video you might find interesting:

puwexil

Edit history:

puwexil: 2012-06-11 06:15:22 pm

2012-06-11 05:14:10 pm

Professional Second Banana

Good stuff as usual! Is there a reason you didn't do the cutscene skip in the Forgotten Capital house? I casually timed it yesterday when working on my single-segment route and think it saves maybe 10-15 seconds as long as you have a few seconds of menuing to do to kill time while waiting for the sleeping jingle to end.

Wypy

2012-06-13 05:07:12 am

Deal with it!

Hey Guys greetings from germany, you are doing a great work for this game. I'm a great fan of FF7 myself and I am very intersted in Speedrunning this game (mostly single-segment). I read lolo26's notes and watched your practice SS-runs puwexil. But I'm kinda lazy to write down all useful things of lolo26's notes. Do you have any written document for your route you might share? I would like to practice speedruning this game, not really to get a submittable run(because I suck at some minigames)but to find improvements which other runners could use.

I also have 2 questions to your route:

1. Did you ever try picking up the counter materia after materia keeper? Its not out of the way and can be used to get free hits in from Tifa to make battles
go faster. Possible uses: Stolzboro and Hojo(3rd Form).

2. In Shinra HQ in the room with the bookshelves. I never have to read a book title and can guess "Mako" everytime to get the keycard and the elemental
materia.I never tried anything else when I played this game, it always worked for me. Shouldn't that work for you too? Did you ever try something like
that?

I also watched Garlands video of being able to poison demons gate. He normally receives 0 poison damage,but what if you deal 2223 damage to him?
Then he has 7777 HP should suffer 7777 poison damage because of lucky 7's. Couldn't that be used for the segmented run? Did someone tried and timed that?

greetz
wypy

Hey Guys greetings from germany, you are doing a great work for this game. I'm a great fan of FF7 myself and I am very intersted in Speedrunning this game (mostly single-segment). I read lolo26's notes and watched your practice SS-runs puwexil. But I'm kinda lazy to write down all useful things of lolo26's notes. Do you have any written document for your route you might share? I would like to practice speedruning this game, not really to get a submittable run(because I suck at some minigames)but to find improvements which other runners could use.

I also have 2 questions to your route:

1. Did you ever try picking up the counter materia after materia keeper? Its not out of the way and can be used to get free hits in from Tifa to make battles    
    go faster. Possible uses: Stolzboro and Hojo(3rd Form).

2. In Shinra HQ in the room with the bookshelves. I never have to read a book title and can guess "Mako" everytime to get the keycard and the elemental  
    materia.I never tried anything else when I played this game, it always worked for me. Shouldn't that work for you too? Did you ever try something like   
    that?

I also watched Garlands video of being able to poison demons gate. He normally receives 0 poison damage,but what if you deal 2223 damage to him?
Then he has 7777 HP should suffer 7777 poison damage because of lucky 7's. Couldn't that be used for the segmented run? Did someone tried and timed that?

greetz
wypy

BrutalAl

Edit history:

BrutalAl: 2012-06-15 11:45:37 am

BrutalAl: 2012-06-15 11:44:51 am

2012-06-14 03:53:06 pm

Quote from puwexil:

Is there a reason you didn't do the cutscene skip in the Forgotten Capital house?

Garland is doing the run glitch-free as per his definition of what constitutes as glitches, after all it's his run.
The glitch you are speaking of wouldn't be the first, the last, or biggest time-saver he deliberately ignored due to this standard.

Quote from Wypy:

1. Did you ever try picking up the counter materia after materia keeper? Its not out of the way and can be used to get free hits in from Tifa to make battles go faster.
/.../
2. In Shinra HQ in the room with the bookshelves. I never have to read a book title and can guess "Mako" everytime to get the keycard and the elemental materia.
/.../
I also watched Garlands video of being able to poison demons gate. /.../ what if you deal 2223 damage to him?

1. Getting an extra regular hit won't always help, but always cost time. Further more many tactics rely on Tifa not getting hit at all, or only once, not to mention the time lost in menu for handling and/or re- and de-equipping it for when it is/isn't needed. Simply put, It was deemed not needed.
2. Sounds like you're playing on the PC version? Fact: the password isn't always mako on the PSX NTSC version.
3. Lucky 7 does not override elemental immunity, it would still deal 0 damage.

EDIT: Adjusted typos.

[quote="puwexil"]Is there a reason you didn't do the cutscene skip in the Forgotten Capital house?[/quote]Garland is doing the run glitch-free as per his definition of what constitutes as glitches, after all it's his run.
The glitch you are speaking of wouldn't be the first, the last, or biggest time-saver he deliberately ignored due to this standard.

[quote="Wypy"]1. Did you ever try picking up the counter materia after materia keeper? Its not out of the way and can be used to get free hits in from Tifa to make battles go faster.
/.../
2. In Shinra HQ in the room with the bookshelves. I never have to read a book title and can guess "Mako" everytime to get the keycard and the elemental materia.
/.../
I also watched Garlands video of being able to poison demons gate. /.../ what if you deal 2223 damage to him?[/quote]1. Getting an extra regular hit won't always help, but always cost time. Further more many tactics rely on Tifa not getting hit at all, or only once, not to mention the time lost in menu for handling and/or re- and de-equipping it for when it is/isn't needed. Simply put, It was deemed not needed.
2. Sounds like you're playing on the PC version? Fact: the password isn't always mako on the PSX NTSC version.
3. Lucky 7 does not override elemental immunity, it would still deal 0 damage.

EDIT: Adjusted typos.

Wypy

2012-06-14 04:08:18 pm

Deal with it!

Quote from BrutalAl:

1. Getting an extra regular hit won't always help, but always cost time. Further more many tactics rely on Tifa no getting hit at all, or only once, not to mention the time lost in menu for handling and/or re- and de-equipping it for when it is/isn't needed. Simply put, It was deemed not needed.
2. Sounds like your playing on the PC version? Fact: the password isn't always mako on the PSX NTSC version.
3. Lucky 7 does not override elemental immunity, it would still deal 0 damage.

1. Ok seems logic =)

2. Nope, I'm playing psx pal version(german). When I first got the game, a friend who played it already told me the password would be "mako", so I never bothered with this and always used "mako" and always got the keycard+elemental materia. I never really read what he says to be honest, but when I guess "mako" he says something like "sounds good" and gives me the keycard. Then I have to talk to him again. He then says something like "I never thought yould do on the first try" and gives me then the materia.

3. thats interesting, good to know.

[quote="BrutalAl"]
1. Getting an extra regular hit won't always help, but always cost time. Further more many tactics rely on Tifa no getting hit at all, or only once, not to mention the time lost in menu for handling and/or re- and de-equipping it for when it is/isn't needed. Simply put, It was deemed not needed.
2. Sounds like your playing on the PC version? Fact: the password isn't always mako on the PSX NTSC version.
3. Lucky 7 does not override elemental immunity, it would still deal 0 damage.[/quote]

1. Ok seems logic =)

2. Nope, I'm playing psx pal version(german). When I first got the game, a friend who played it already told me the password would be "mako", so I never bothered with this and always used "mako" and always got the keycard+elemental materia. I never really read what he says to be honest, but when I guess "mako" he says something like "sounds good" and gives me the keycard. Then I have to talk to him again. He then says something like "I never thought yould do on the first try" and gives me then the materia.

3. thats interesting, good to know.

BrutalAl

Edit history:

BrutalAl: 2012-06-15 12:28:03 pm

2012-06-15 11:41:21 am

Quote from Wypy:

2. Nope, I'm playing psx pal version(german)

Wouldn't know the german version but North American NTSC PSX, Japanese NTSC PSX, and English PAL PSX all have working mechanics for the password (working = password changes from time to time). If "mako" really always is the password in the german PAL PSX then that version is glitched.

Regardless though, what password it will be (on all the working versions) depends on the second you enter that floor, as such it is possible to open the menu and simply look at the timer and be able to tell what the password is, this isn't 100% fool proof though as it requires some degree of timing-ability from the player (whose nerve's might be on the brink of meltdown after a successful elevator trip), fortunately there is another way to go at it that is fairly "nerve meltdown"-proof. Visit one particular shelf that has a different book for each password, time-loss of only ~4sec.

EDIT: I guess it could also be an intentional change by those in charge of the German version and thus not a glitch, don't see why they would change it though.

[quote="Wypy"]2. Nope, I'm playing psx pal version(german)[/quote] Wouldn't know the german version but North American NTSC PSX, Japanese NTSC PSX, and English PAL PSX all have working mechanics for the password (working = password changes from time to time). If "mako" really always is the password in the german PAL PSX then that version is glitched.

Regardless though, what password it will be (on all the working versions) depends on the second you enter that floor, as such it is possible to open the menu and simply look at the timer and be able to tell what the password is, this isn't 100% fool proof though as it requires some degree of timing-ability from the player (whose nerve's might be on the brink of meltdown after a successful elevator trip), fortunately there is another way to go at it that is fairly "nerve meltdown"-proof. Visit one particular shelf that has a different book for each password, time-loss of only ~4sec.

EDIT: I guess it could also be an intentional change by those in charge of the German version and thus not a glitch, don't see why they would change it though.

Wypy

Edit history:

Wypy: 2012-06-16 02:05:26 pm

2012-06-15 02:55:40 pm

Deal with it!

Have you ever tried using the wrong password on purpose and then talked to him afterwards? Like visit that shelf, knowing the right password but still choose the wrong one. Because I can't think of a reason to change it for the german version either. And I don't think that I am that lucky to get always Mako as the correct password.

I think I go test and try using every password and see what happens. Maybe the german version really is glitchy.

Edit: I found out something interesting while reading through the net.

Quote:

In the English and Japanese versions one of four passwords is randomly chosen each game, although ORBS and HOJO are never the correct answer. In other localizations MAKO is always the correct answer.

This is from the final fantasy wiki http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Domino
So it really is a version difference

puwexil

Edit history:

puwexil: 2012-07-07 08:16:30 pm

2012-07-07 08:16:09 pm

Professional Second Banana

Going to do an SS test run (meaning I'll be saving periodically in case of failure) using a new route mostly based on ping_values non-Slots RTA, starting tomorrow (7/8) around 8-9AM US Central Time (GMT-5). http://www.twitch.tv/puwexil

BrutalAl

Edit history:

BrutalAl: 2012-07-11 06:37:10 am

2012-07-11 06:36:40 am

Any particular reason you're basing your run on ping_values RTA?

letrangerstranger has got a recorded RTA run (no Slots) from 2011 on the JINT version clocking in at 8h 16min 26s convertd to SDA timing (add ~8m for a rough US NTSC estimate).

Also, here's a link to last months video on my youtube channel:

The video demonstrates how to skip the Stinger enemies in the Cave of Gi in a regular (non-TAS) SS Speedrun.

puwexil

Edit history:

puwexil: 2012-07-11 11:27:32 pm

puwexil: 2012-07-11 07:59:45 am

2012-07-11 07:58:21 am

Professional Second Banana

ping_values and letrangerstranger are one and the same as best as I can tell, since the 8:16 non-slots RTA on letrangerstranger's Youtube is also on ping_values' TwitchTV channel.

Definitely surprised to hear it's only an 8 minute difference between the NA and FF7I versions of the game, (I figured it closer to 20-30 minutes due to text differences, based on the segmented test run times GarlandG has listed in his FAQ). The fact that ping_values uses a turbo controller (according the the video notes on his/her Youtube videos) definitely increases the text speed difference compared to my runs though.

Wow, I'll definitely have to to try out that Stinger skip - I always figured that tricks involving manipulating random encounters via the step counter weren't realistic for an SS run (unless the runner is consistent enough to take the same number of steps in each area every run); but being able to skip at least one of the Stingers would save a lot of time (though it would mean having to use a more aggressive Braver route to ensure Cloud has Cross-Slash before Red Dragon).

I ended up getting a 9:15:52 by SDA timing on my SS last weekend, with probably 10-12 minutes lost due to major mistakes and several more minutes spent saving since it was more of a route test than a serious record attempt. 8-9 minutes of that loss came from failing the Junon parade twice and getting lost in the Great Glacier snowfield (still not sure how that happened, since I just went straight north like usual and never even saw the cave - going to have to watch the recording to postmortem it). I also had pretty bad luck with Right Arm farming at Mt. Corel (3 pincer attacks by Cockatrices), though that was easily offset by getting the most ridiculously lucky Northern Crater I ever have and ever will (Tifa got KO'd by dragons by the 3rd or 4th room, and then I got ZERO battles in the final descent sequence before Jenova-Synthesis). I'll encode and upload that Crater run sometime soon since I still can't believe I got that lucky in an SS. Smiley

Does anyone know what the SS record on the NA version currently stands at (I remember hearing that lolo26 or someone else got a 9:02, though I can't remember where I heard that)? I'm still trying to decide on a final goal time for this.

ping_values and letrangerstranger are one and the same as best as I can tell, since the 8:16 non-slots RTA on letrangerstranger's Youtube is also on ping_values' TwitchTV channel.

Definitely surprised to hear it's only an 8 minute difference between the NA and FF7I versions of the game, (I figured it closer to 20-30 minutes due to text differences, based on the segmented test run times GarlandG has listed in his FAQ).  The fact that ping_values uses a turbo controller (according the the video notes on his/her Youtube videos) definitely increases the text speed difference compared to my runs though.

Wow, I'll definitely have to to try out that Stinger skip - I always figured that tricks involving manipulating random encounters via the step counter weren't realistic for an SS run (unless the runner is consistent enough to take the same number of steps in each area every run); but being able to skip at least one of the Stingers would save a lot of time (though it would mean having to use a more aggressive Braver route to ensure Cloud has Cross-Slash before Red Dragon).

I ended up getting a 9:15:52 by SDA timing on my SS last weekend, with probably 10-12 minutes lost due to major mistakes and several more minutes spent saving since it was more of a route test than a serious record attempt.  8-9 minutes of that loss came from failing the Junon parade twice and getting lost in the Great Glacier snowfield (still not sure how that happened, since I just went straight north like usual and never even saw the cave - going to have to watch the recording to postmortem it).  I also had pretty bad luck with Right Arm farming at Mt. Corel (3 pincer attacks by Cockatrices), though that was easily offset by getting the most ridiculously lucky Northern Crater I ever have and ever will (Tifa got KO'd by dragons by the 3rd or 4th room, and then I got [u][b]ZERO[/b][/u] battles in the final descent sequence before Jenova-Synthesis).  I'll encode and upload that Crater run sometime soon since I still can't believe I got that lucky in an SS. :)

Does anyone know what the SS record on the NA version currently stands at (I remember hearing that lolo26 or someone else got a 9:02, though I can't remember where I heard that)?  I'm still trying to decide on a final goal time for this.

nitwit

2012-07-11 10:48:51 am

ping_values is the same person definitely; look at the twitter account on the youtube page.

Compared to ping_values' menu manipulation yours is kind of sloppy.

For example the big menu change prior to Diamond Weapon:

ping_values: 41 seconds
puwexil: 77 seconds

Menu Manip shortly after landing in Midgar:

ping_values: 17 seconds
puwexil: 29 seconds

Also, don't underestimate differences in luck: for example ping got only one encounter in the Gelnika. It took 5-6 seconds (timed from ATB bar movement beginning to beginning of fade to black) to escape. You managed two battles; one took 15-17 seconds to escape; the other took ~12 seconds. Also, at the beginning of the Gelnika you opened the menu to heal and lost a good 12 seonds of real time. So, just in the Gelnika you lost generously 33 seconds over ping_values run just due to bad luck and not so great execution. Probably a hair more because I'm not counting transition to and from battle during the second battle.

Also Cockatrice Battle 1: 50 seconds (this time includes load time transitions)
Cockatrice Battle 2: 41 seconds
Cockatrice Battle 3: 50 seconds
Accidental Bomb Escape: 16 seconds
You also opened the menu to heal way more than ping. So there's a few more seconds as well.

You spent 373 seconds on the final bridge screen prior to North Corel; ping spent 72; granted he had already managed to steal 2 Right Arms prior to this screen, and you had only managed to steal one. It's still really significant though; he got his Right Arms on the run more or less.

Textual advantage might be a hair more because you scroll through the get Yoshiyuki and Venus Gospel blather whereas a segmented run would not. But to state the blindingly obvious, I would trust BrutalAI.

ping_values is the same person definitely; look at the twitter account on the youtube page.

Compared to ping_values' menu manipulation yours is kind of sloppy.

For example the big menu change prior to Diamond Weapon:

ping_values: 41 seconds
    puwexil: 77 seconds

Menu Manip shortly after landing in Midgar:

ping_values: 17 seconds
    puwexil: 29 seconds

Also, don't underestimate differences in luck: for example ping got only one encounter in the Gelnika.  It took 5-6 seconds (timed from ATB bar movement beginning to beginning of fade to black) to escape.  You managed two battles; one took 15-17 seconds to escape; the other took ~12 seconds.  Also, at the beginning of the Gelnika you opened the menu to heal and lost a good 12 seonds of real time.  So, just in the Gelnika you lost generously 33 seconds over ping_values run just due to bad luck and not so great execution.  Probably a hair more because I'm not counting transition to and from battle during the second battle.

Also Cockatrice Battle 1: 50 seconds (this time includes load time transitions)
       Cockatrice Battle 2: 41 seconds
       Cockatrice Battle 3: 50 seconds
       Accidental Bomb Escape: 16 seconds
       You also opened the menu to heal way more than ping.  So there's a few more seconds as well.

You spent 373 seconds on the final bridge screen prior to North Corel; ping spent 72; granted he had already managed to steal 2 Right Arms prior to this screen, and you had only managed to steal one.  It's still really significant though; he got his Right Arms on the run more or less.

Textual advantage might be a hair more because you scroll through the get Yoshiyuki and Venus Gospel blather whereas a segmented run would not. But to state the blindingly obvious, I would trust BrutalAI.

puwexil

2012-07-11 11:23:53 pm

Professional Second Banana

Thanks for the feedback - I definitely have a ways to go before getting anywhere close to ping_values' level at SSing this game (especially with menuing and with being familiar enough with the random encounter formations in each area to know when healing is actually needed to prevent gameovers or loss of Cloud's Limit gauge). Most of my practice before the full SS was spent drilling boss strats; and other than a few mistakes like forgetting to cast Big Guard during Safer and hesitating during Red Dragon so that it got a 2nd attack off, I was pretty pleased with how the boss battles went during the run.

BZero

2012-07-15 09:42:10 am

Quote from BrutalAl:

Garland is doing the run glitch-free as per his definition of what constitutes as glitches, after all it's his run.
The glitch you are speaking of wouldn't be the first, the last, or biggest time-saver he deliberately ignored due to this standard.

Do you see the Turks-skip as a glitch, Garland?

BrutalAl

2012-08-12 04:35:05 am

Being the 2012 Summer Olympic Games I figured I'd give this months video an Olympic twist to it. The athletes, Cloud and Aeris, will be participating in two racing events, Diner Dash, and Relay Barathon. Apart from any eventual medals, good performance in these events can of course also be put to good use during Speedruns.

THE TRICK TO BEING A TOP ATHLETE
Most of the time your ability to move Cloud is disabled when texboxes and/or scenes play out. However, given the right circumstances it's possible to avoid this paralysis, roam around freely and as a result sometimes skip unwanted events.
A paralysis dodge can occur when e.g. two textboxes are triggered (one by cloud moving, the other from pressing the action button), or poor programming fails to paralyze but still enables movement at textbox/event end.

Video:

Caracarn

2012-09-27 06:27:58 am

After failing an FF7 run rather miserably, I got some needed comic relief by what the game decided to do when I loaded a save at the final descent. Enjoy.

http://www.twitch.tv/caracarnvi/b/333626457