Final Fantasy VII

2012-01-16 11:02:49 pm

This is just like new game+ except it is caused by a glitch. But I appreciate the distinction you have between the two.

In this case, with the 'alternative save file', when would the time start?

This is the full sequence of events for glitched FF7:
1. New Game (standard, non-glitched)
2. Play up until disc 2
3. Do a glitch
4. Reset
5. Select new 'glitched' game.

or it can be potentially done like this instead:
1. Load from memory card just before glitch
2. Perform glitch
3. Reset
4. Select new 'glitched' game

I need a way to make this glitch acceptable without having to count the time of going through disc 2 twice! Tongue

Or how about aiming for in-game time, does that exist here?

MSK

2012-01-17 12:12:35 am

Quote from antd:

This is just like new game+ except it is caused by a glitch. But I appreciate the distinction you have between the two.

In this case, with the 'alternative save file', when would the time start?

This is the full sequence of events for glitched FF7:
1. New Game (standard, non-glitched)
2. Play up until disc 2
3. Do a glitch
4. Reset
5. Select new 'glitched' game.

or it can be potentially done like this instead:
1. Load from memory card just before glitch
2. Perform glitch
3. Reset
4. Select new 'glitched' game

I need a way to make this glitch acceptable without having to count the time of going through disc 2 twice! Tongue

Or how about aiming for in-game time, does that exist here?

I believe the time spent setting up the glitch needs to be included in the speedrun. I don't think in-game timer is a category. Just out of curiosity, what is the glitch that you are performing and what does it do exactly?

antd

Edit history:

antd: 2012-01-17 12:44:14 am

antd: 2012-01-17 12:43:18 am

antd: 2012-01-17 12:41:27 am

antd: 2012-01-17 12:39:29 am

antd: 2012-01-17 12:39:13 am

2012-01-17 12:38:15 am

It allows high initial stats and the ability to 'escape' all encounters, including bosses.
I discovered it a few days ago. But I don't want to reveal it until after I create a 'tas' which aims for lowest in-game time.

Then I guess this glitch can only be used from disc 2 onwards, on this website:

1. New game
2. Play until disc 2
3. Save
3. Glitch
4. Load Save
5. Profit (all battles escaped in <5 seconds or so)

According to my very rough calculations, it will only save around 10 minutes in boss battles. The time it takes to setup the glitch is probably longer than this.

In a segmented run, the time between save + load is not counted, is it?
If this is so, there is 0 time spent doing the glitch. In this case it will shave an easy 10 minutes from the clock. ('easy' = trivial even for a regular speed runner) This doesn't take into the account the time messing about in menus or picking up items, which can now be totally avoided.

Worn_Traveler

2012-01-17 06:40:08 am

Formerly known as Skullboy

If I recall correctly (and I might not be) in game time can only be counted up to the final save as the game does not keep track of anything after that in terms of saving. So for SDA you would need to either A: Use real time for the run from the beginning or B: Look at the game timer (which also runs during menus) before the Sephiroth fights and then time manually from there if you want an estimate. However, you said that you are doing a 'tas' so the above only applies if you were to submit a console/PC version run to SDA. Whatever you decide to do, best of luck.

BrutalAl

Edit history:

BrutalAl: 2012-03-31 04:45:14 pm

2012-03-31 04:44:21 pm

A new glitch has been discovered (the "warp-glitch") which enables several sever sequence breaks through out the course game.
This sets a new standard for anyone speedrunning this game and a new time to aim for should be around 4hrs.

Video of the Warp-Glitch:

Carcinogen

2012-03-31 05:05:48 pm

I'm thoroughly impressed. I do have a couple of questions.

The Battled ID is the number of battles you've fought, correct? In which case, you can go to pretty much any field map in the game's data? Or is it based on enemy patterns or something else and is pretty much only possible through luck manipulation/TASing?

In your glitched speed run route, do you make zero use of vehicles at all? That is to say, you only fulfill the event flags that don't crash the game, etc.? What exactly did you do?

Better yet, did you post all this information somewhere like the GameFAQs message boards?

BrutalAl

2012-03-31 05:10:48 pm

Battle ID = each battle formation has a unique number/id.

So it's not a Battle Count variable, each hostile field holds around 6 unique battles (varies).

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2012-03-31 05:16:52 pm

2012-03-31 05:15:12 pm

Okay, so in essence, each hostile field map can send you to six different places? This is very fascinating, and changes the way I look at the game's structure completely.

Also, dumb question, but party formation has nothing to do with it, correct? It's just enemy formation?

Is there a particular resource with the identities of field maps and battle IDs?

scaryice

2012-04-01 03:56:30 am

I've been trying to do this on console for an hour with no luck yet.

GarlandG

2012-04-01 04:06:19 am

I will knock you all down!

Don't mind me, just stopping by to post the Palmer segment.

BrutalAl

Edit history:

BrutalAl: 2012-04-01 05:24:07 am

2012-04-01 05:23:45 am

Quote from scaryice:

I've been trying to do this on console for an hour with no luck yet.

If you get into a battle and don't move after wards you must be taken to the new field, if you're instead taken back to the old field (the one where you got the battle) then you didn't get the battle on the same frame as the field change.

Also, after closing the menu for the last time you shouldn't see the hand cursor, if you see the hand before the new field loads you didn't get the menu on the last frame possible.

Side Note:
Go garland!

scaryice

Edit history:

scaryice: 2012-04-01 05:38:52 am

2012-04-01 05:37:23 am

Quote from BrutalAl:

If you get into a battle and don't move after wards you must be taken to the new field, if you're instead taken back to the old field (the one where you got the battle) then you didn't get the battle on the same frame as the field change.

Also, after closing the menu for the last time you shouldn't see the hand cursor, if you see the hand before the new field loads you didn't get the menu on the last frame possible.

I tried for almost two hours and didn't get it. I had two battles during the transition, but I obviously missed going to the menu. Did you test it on console?

BrutalAl

2012-04-01 07:58:08 am

Quote from scaryice:

I had two battles during the transition /.../ I obviously missed going to the menu

You can't have two battles during one transition, so you're obviously misunderstanding things. Not to mention you tried it without the menu.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2012-04-01 08:29:08 am

2012-04-01 08:13:25 am

Weegee Time

Quote from GarlandG:

Don't mind me, just stopping by to post the Palmer segment.

What the what the whaaaaaaaaaaa!?

Quote from BrutalAl:

Quote from scaryice:

I had two battles during the transition /.../ I obviously missed going to the menu

You can't have two battles during one transition, so you're obviously misunderstanding things. Not to mention you tried it without the menu.

I believe scary meant he got into battle during the transition on two separate occasions and didn't succeed at getting the menu to open.

Worn_Traveler

2012-04-01 12:25:45 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

New GarlandG segment? Yes!

BrutalAI: The effects of that glitch (being trapped in the walls) reminds me a lot of the FFVII debug mode in terms of being displaced in walls and random weird effects. If that trick can be consistently replicated, it would probably be another category (like Large Skips). This is interesting.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2012-04-01 01:28:20 pm

Rakuen: 2012-04-01 01:25:08 pm

Rakuen: 2012-04-01 01:24:14 pm

Rakuen: 2012-04-01 01:24:03 pm

Rakuen: 2012-04-01 01:22:39 pm

2012-04-01 01:22:08 pm

Weegee Time

Alright, if I open the menu at the same time as Cloud finishes a step, the battle does indeed get skipped. The problem is doing any of that on the border of an area. I'm standing the closest you can get to the border without zoning into another area. If I so much as graze the button, I'll change maps. But I can't open the menu while taking that step, only before such that I move no where, or after I've already zoned. Nor will a battle ensue when stepping into that spot, I trigger one if I take any step away from the border, or take any single step after the map change. Since I can't get either of the events to happen by themselves, I obviously can't get the composite either. So, color me skeptical about this.

Incidentally, I'm in the first Mako Reactor.

BrutalAl

2012-04-01 01:55:35 pm

Holding UP, even for just one frame, will move Cloud more than 1 unit along the X-axis (or whatever axis UP is along in this example).

For simplicity let's say holding UP for 1 frame moves Cloud 10 units along the x-axis.
The battle will occur at the end of those 10 units, when the step is fully taken.
The field border however is at a fixed x-axis value, so if the border is only 8 axis units away you will reach it before the step is fully taken, even if you're just one frame away.

1 frame of movement doesn't equal one unit along the axis.

Arrow

2012-04-01 02:25:08 pm

Now a hit show on the CW

I can't believe how gullible everyone is. "Here is an example RTA time that I achieved before even announcing that I had discovered this glitch. I'm not going to even begin to explain the new route, or how it would be possible to consistently perform a frame perfect, RNG dependent trick in real time. Also, there is no possible way I could have waited until April 2 to post this." Not to mention this (quoted from TASvideos):

Quote:

no Aeris...even if you have a memory warp glitch, you can't warp across disks to avoid the Jenova at the end of disc 1

Color me skeptical, but I'm not getting my hopes up until someone other than Brutal or antd can confirm that they've gotten this trick to work.

Worn_Traveler

2012-04-01 02:34:04 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

I am skeptical as well, hence the debug room statement. While the game can be mostly played through on one disc, the game would throw a fit when loading the wrong Cinema and probably crash. You would have the Jenova fight but then the game might not run right unless you still had Disc 1 in. Also, the example video is not using the PC version, which seems to be the optimal version to run. How can I tell? It's all in the music.

BrutalAl

Edit history:

BrutalAl: 2012-04-01 03:00:06 pm

2012-04-01 02:57:17 pm

(the following is a reply to a post that got deleted, apparently)

If you're not standing the correct amount of units away from the border you cant get the battle at the same time (same frame) as you leave, simple as that.
Just because you can't move 1 unit per frame (by just hold a direction) doesn't mean Cloud can't stand on each unit.

You have two ways of moving, running or walking, 1 frame of running movement will of course take you further along the axis than walking will, right? Is it so hard to believe that Walking *isn't* slow enough to move you only 1 unit per frame, you're suggesting that the slowest the game could move any object would be at the same speed cloud is walking, and not any slower?

Rakuen

2012-04-01 03:05:33 pm

Weegee Time

It's like you think I can't slow my emulator down to 10 FPS to give myself nice, big timing windows. You just keep weaving this story and adding more and more requirements to it, and all the while we're supposed to just nod at your sagacity and acknowledge we must meet all these requirements in the midst of a console attempt.

Put up or shut up. Now.

BrutalAl

2012-04-01 03:08:52 pm

You can slow it down to one frame if you want, use an emulator with frame advance even.

How is this a new requirement?
If you haven't positioned Cloud on the correct number of units from the border you can't get the battle at the same frame as you leave, and that is the only requirement ever stated (along with the menu of course).

Rakuen

2012-04-01 03:10:26 pm

Weegee Time

Quote from Rakuen:

Put up or shut up. Now.

BrutalAl

2012-04-01 03:11:21 pm

Put up what, a video? That's kinda already done...

Rakuen

2012-04-01 03:13:56 pm

Weegee Time

Live on a console with people watching you, not in an environment that easily lends itself to competent video editing skills.