Final Fantasy VII: 100% Definition?

2012-12-09 11:17:49 am

<(^_^)>

I honestly don't see any point in collecting all materia if you're not getting them all for master materia. As tedious as it may sound, we should either require getting the master materia, or don't require any materia at all, because as carcinogen said, materia are droppable. If you're requiring someone to collect all materia, you might as well require collection of one of every weapon and item in the game.

Kupo

2012-12-09 11:26:02 am

"all permanent trackable non-statistic powerups"

Can you define "permanent" here?
Sometimes powerups are temporarily lost in certain situations.

Can you define "statistic" here?
Everything in the game can be considered a value in RAM, so not sure what is meant by "statistic".

Can you define "powerup" here?
Why are optional bosses considered a "powerup"? The battle-skip glitch is tracked by the game. Does this mean a runner must perform this trick once?

Opening all chests seems to be a requirement under this definition. It is not a statistic, it is permanent, and they are tracked by the game.

Picking up all item bottles seems to be a requirement under this definition. It is not a statistic (notice I said picking up a bottle of an item, not the item itself), it is permanent (one cannot put the item icon back in its place in a field), and they are tracked by the game.
Item bottles disappear when picked up. Bosses disappear when killed.

Kupo

2012-12-09 11:34:32 am

All key items seems to be a requirement under this definition.
It is not a statistic. It is permanent (cannot pick them up multiple times, cannot be trashed). They are "lost" when used, but so are bosses when killed. Clearly tracked.

Getting all key items is impossible in this game. You cannot get all of the women's clothes in wall market.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2012-12-09 01:57:05 pm

2012-12-09 01:49:44 pm

Quote:

Can you define "permanent" here?
Sometimes powerups are temporarily lost in certain situations.

Well if it's lost...then it's not permanent.

Can you define "statistic" here?
Everything in the game can be considered a value in RAM, so not sure what is meant by "statistic".

The values you see on your character screen, like Strength and speed.

Can you define "powerup" here?
Why are optional bosses considered a "powerup"? The battle-skip glitch is tracked by the game. Does this mean a runner must perform this trick once?

The optional bosses are not considered a power up, at least, as far as I know.

Opening all chests seems to be a requirement under this definition. It is not a statistic, it is permanent, and they are tracked by the game.

But you're forgetting that our definition also requires that they not be able to be trashed, and treasure chest items CAN be trashed.

Picking up all item bottles seems to be a requirement under this definition. It is not a statistic (notice I said picking up a bottle of an item, not the item itself), it is permanent (one cannot put the item icon back in its place in a field), and they are tracked by the game.
Item bottles disappear when picked up. Bosses disappear when killed.

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean when you say "item bottle". Could you please explain that for me?

Quote:

All key items seems to be a requirement under this definition.
It is not a statistic. It is permanent (cannot pick them up multiple times, cannot be trashed). They are "lost" when used, but so are bosses when killed. Clearly tracked.

But the key items are not power ups, therefore, they don't count.

[quote]Can you define "permanent" here? 
Sometimes powerups are temporarily lost in certain situations.[/quote]

Well if it's lost...then it's not permanent.

[i]Can you define "statistic" here? 
Everything in the game can be considered a value in RAM, so not sure what is meant by "statistic".[/i]

The values you see on your character screen, like Strength and speed.

[i]Can you define "powerup" here?
Why are optional bosses considered a "powerup"? The battle-skip glitch is tracked by the game. Does this mean a runner must perform this trick once?[/i]

The optional bosses are not considered a power up, at least, as far as I know.

[i]Opening all chests seems to be a requirement under this definition. It is not a statistic, it is permanent, and they are tracked by the game.[/i]

But you're forgetting that our definition also requires that they not be able to be trashed, and treasure chest items CAN be trashed.

[i]Picking up all item bottles seems to be a requirement under this definition. It is not a statistic (notice I said picking up a bottle of an item, not the item itself), it is permanent (one cannot put the item icon back in its place in a field), and they are tracked by the game.
Item bottles disappear when picked up. Bosses disappear when killed.[/i]

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean when you say "item bottle".  Could you please explain that for me?

[quote]All key items seems to be a requirement under this definition. 
It is not a statistic. It is permanent (cannot pick them up multiple times, cannot be trashed). They are "lost" when used, but so are bosses when killed. Clearly tracked.[/quote]

But the key items are not power ups, therefore, they don't count.

Ghostwheel

Edit history:

Ghostwheel: 2012-12-09 03:48:50 pm

2012-12-09 03:47:53 pm

The artist formerly known as Qxy

I get what kupo means with the chest definition here. Its tracked by the game that you got to that point and opened that chest, what you do with the item afterward is your own business. The problem I have with this definition is it is not tracked by the game in a way easily visible or accessible to you. For comparison, my KHII 100% run requires me to open all the chests because the journal actually keeps a record you can access of which chests I opened. I'm not denying that runners or verifiers couldn't possibly just memorize the locations of the chests and make sure they got them all, but it seems very cumbersome on this kind of scale. Same with item bottles.

Something like optional bosses or sidequests don't need to be explicitly tacked by the game to merit their own category because these goals tend to be much more significant and noticeable than say picking up a chest or an item, or leveling a materia. These goals tend to be important enough or interesting enough that there is a sub-community of people who want to include them in some capacity. Based on what I'm reading here, only certain bosses seem to be in any way close to this status.

On the key items thing. Something as silly as the fact that you can't get all the women's clothes shouldn't stop that from being a legitimate category. Even if you can't get 100% you can get as much as possible, and in the spirit of the category, the difference in actual gameplay or run strategy wouldn't change much if you could suddenly buy the other clothes later on or something. Low% is low% for a reason, you sometimes have to get certain things. Just because"High%" is almost always 100% doesn't mean that in some games you don't have to miss certain things. Now key items has its own set of problems; for example, no one actually cares about collecting them, and doing so is only interesting if you have to take on another task, and why not just make that the category instead?

Basically, I'm with a lot of people in that there are two ways you can get a separate category; if your game tracks something in an easy to see, hard to debate way, great. This game does not. So we're left with popular demand on whether another category would be interesting to work out. For an RPG, it tends to be more interesting in my opinion to define certain goals you have to achieve that are independent of your own character growth, leaving you freedom as to the fastest way to accomplish them.

I get what kupo means with the chest definition here. Its tracked by the game that you got to that point and opened that chest, what you do with the item afterward is your own business. The problem I have with this definition is it is not tracked by the game in a way easily visible or accessible to you. For comparison, my KHII 100% run requires me to open all the chests because the journal actually keeps a record you can access of which chests I opened. I'm not denying that runners or verifiers couldn't possibly just memorize the locations of the chests and make sure they got them all, but it seems very cumbersome on this kind of scale. Same with item bottles.

Something like optional bosses or sidequests don't need to be explicitly tacked by the game to merit their own category because these goals tend to be much more significant and noticeable than say picking up a chest or an item, or leveling a materia. These goals tend to be important enough or interesting enough that there is a sub-community of people who want to include them in some capacity. Based on what I'm reading here, only certain bosses seem to be in any way close to this status.

On the key items thing. Something as silly as the fact that you can't get all the women's clothes shouldn't stop that from being a legitimate category. Even if you can't get 100% you can get as much as possible, and in the spirit of the category, the difference in actual gameplay or run strategy wouldn't change much if you could suddenly buy the other clothes later on or something. Low% is low% for a reason, you sometimes have to get certain things. Just because"High%" is almost always 100% doesn't mean that in some games you don't have to miss certain things. Now key items has its own set of problems; for example, no one actually cares about collecting them, and doing so is only interesting if you have to take on another task, and why not just make that the category instead?

Basically, I'm with a lot of people in that there are two ways you can get a separate category; if your game tracks something in an easy to see, hard to debate way, great. This game does not. So we're left with popular demand on whether another category would be interesting to work out. For an RPG, it tends to be more interesting in my opinion to define certain goals you have to achieve that are independent of your own character growth, leaving you freedom as to the fastest way to accomplish them.