Final Fantasy VII

2007-08-03 11:02:22 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

^^Same version for me, and I don't remember ever getting anything besides BOMB or MAKO. I also used to have the PC version, but that was a long time ago and I don't remember what passwords I got on it.

Ritchstorm

2007-08-04 12:49:57 am

5 + 4 = 9

In fact coming to think about it it's always been Mako for me as well and I'm UK PAL. Hmm strange...

MatrixTN

2007-08-04 02:27:40 am

You got a deletion wish?

Mine's NTSC as well, but doesn't have the greatest hits label on it. I've had each of them at least once iirc, haven't played the game in so long.

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2007-08-04 04:46:49 pm

2007-08-04 04:45:25 pm

Quote:

Mine's NTSC as well, but doesn't have the greatest hits label on it. I've had each of them at least once iirc, haven't played the game in so long.

A couple of the passwords (HOJO was one of them) are never selected. I know I've had half the passwords used in every game of FF I've played (between the PC and PSX versions). It's just a region thing apparently.

Maxml

2007-08-04 05:40:32 pm

...wierd.

Deadstick

2007-08-05 05:40:16 am

...

Just to add in, every time I've played it (NTSC PSX version), I've always gotten either MAKO or BOMB. However, I've gotten MAKO a lot more often than BOMB--with MAKO appearing 90% of time compared to BOMB 10% of the time.

Farringa

2007-08-07 09:35:07 pm

Word.

From GarlandG's FAQ:

"So, after having mapped every shelf for every password, luck would have it that
one out of all those 24 shelfs actually did have a unique title for each
password, and the lost time for reading it is only 4.5sec! The Magic Shelf is
in the 'Space Dev. Research Library' (Green Shelfs, Blue floor). It's on the
left side of the middle bookshelf and the magic titles are as follows:

BEST - 2 Economic report: Space Dev Program
KING - 1 Results of failed space mission "YA-79"
BOMB - 1 Breakdown of SOLDIER members by class
MAKO - 10 New plans for urban planning

If the password is MAKO you'll probably lose another second just because you
have to move the marker all that way to the bottom in Dominos guess-list, but
that's it =)

Of course, we lose 4,5 seconds compared to just guessing the password, but we
need the Elemental materia, and this section is hard enough as it is. Take the
elevator up to floor 65 when you're done."

While doing the run, either in practice or an attempt at the segment, I had each of the 4 possible passwords at least once. PC US Version.

From GarlandG's FAQ:

"So, after having mapped every shelf for every password, luck would have it that
one out of all those 24 shelfs actually did have a unique title for each
password, and the lost time for reading it is only 4.5sec! The Magic Shelf is
in the 'Space Dev. Research Library' (Green Shelfs, Blue floor). It's on the
left side of the middle bookshelf and the magic titles are as follows:

BEST - 2 Economic report: Space Dev Program
KING - 1 Results of failed space mission "YA-79"
BOMB - 1 Breakdown of SOLDIER members by class
MAKO - 10 New plans for urban planning

If the password is MAKO you'll probably lose another second just because you
have to move the marker all that way to the bottom in Dominos guess-list, but
that's it =)

Of course, we lose 4,5 seconds compared to just guessing the password, but we
need the Elemental materia, and this section is hard enough as it is. Take the
elevator up to floor 65 when you're done."

While doing the run, either in practice or an attempt at the segment, I had each of the 4 possible passwords at least once. PC US Version.

DJS

2007-08-07 09:57:56 pm

torch slug since 2006

Quote:

Just to add in, every time I've played it (NTSC PSX version), I've always gotten either MAKO or BOMB. However, I've gotten MAKO a lot more often than BOMB--with MAKO appearing 90% of time compared to BOMB 10% of the time.

We can count from 90 to 100..

lolo26

2007-08-08 10:48:26 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Hi, I'm also new to the SDA forum 8)

So after all these years of looking at great speedrun vids and lurking around the boards (not in too many topics, but I did follow almost all the FF's topics), I finally got an account of my own, and of course my first post has to be in the FFVII thread >_>

Some of you most likely recognize me from gamefaqs, where I'm a regular in the FFVII speedrun discussions.

About the password on floor 62: I can confirm what Farringa said, for the PS NTSC version, there are 4 possible passwords.
However, I remember I also had a version of the game where MAKO was right every time (and I played quite a few times...); namely the german PC version. Coincidence? I think not Roll Eyes

Most likely a bug in the german/pal version.

I mainly wanted to post about the TAS run. I see you guys discussed it a bit.
Me and BrutalAl have had quite a few thoughts about the possibilities a TAS run offers.
While using Cait's "instant win" Slot is faster in a regular speedrun for sure (not by too much, but it is faster), in a TAS run this might not hold true.
Tifa and her powersoul weapon are of course the reason for that, we played out all the battles (theoretically, we didn't actually play it) and came to the conclusion a "Tifa run" had the potential to be faster than a "Slot run".

First, learning Slots takes a couple of minutes (what the fastest way is, is still a bit of a debate, so I'll leave that open for now), and you have to make sure you have the Limit ready at the start of the battle (or after one attack from the Boss).
Second, the Slot animation is quite long Grin

Tifa on the other hand requires no additional battles, and almost all the fights would still be very very fast.
Just to point out a few key battles:

You get Cait before Dyne. The runs would be the same up to that.
Dyne would be the same too.
The Stingers can be quickly killed with a M-Tentacle+Braver, so no need for the Slot here.
Gi Nattak goes down with one Elixir.
Against Materia Keeper the Lucky 7 "trick" is very fast, so again, no need for the Slot.
Palmer would be the first battle where Slot is faster, but the Molotovs+Bio+2400 damage Dice idea isn't much slower (couple of seconds).

Now, we assumed it's possible to get a "pre-emptive" battle on all the Bosses. Me, Garland and many others can confirm that it's possible to get back attacks openings on Bosses, but if this is true for all the Bosses is unknown.
The chances for it (if they exist...) would be very slim, but it's a TAS run so who cares Wink

We wouldn't need Deathblow in the Temple of the Ancients yet, since a critical attack from Tifa deals the same damage, so we would only pick it up after Demons Gate (which saves time) and use it when we have Added Cut to go along with it.

Here's how we thought the Demon's Gate battle could go:

First turn: critical back attack from Tifa (~4k of damage with perfect stats for her level)
Second turn: Since his HP dropped below 7,5k he will wave his arms around. Critical attack from Tifa.
Third turn: he will wave his arms around AGAIN (2 times is the max, afterwards he does attack). Critical Attack from Tifa+2 Right Arms to finish him before he gets to attack.

It could even be possible to get 2 attacks before he waves his arms around for the second time (and then one would use the 2 Right Arms after the second attack from Tifa, and finish him with her third attack).

All the Disc2/3 Bosses would go down very quickly too, thanks to Deathblow=Added Cut (and Added Cut would have to go critical every time too, of course).

We think a TAS run with the japanese version (faster than the US version) could end at ~7 hours; the PC version would of course be even faster than that.

Also, I have a little something for you, but I'm not home right now (will be back in about 4 weeks), so I can't upload it. So yeah you'll have to wait 4 weeks to see what it is, but I hope it will be worth the wait Grin

There, of course my first post had to be long, if you know me from GF, you'll know I tend to write extremely long posts Roll Eyes

Hi, I'm also new to the SDA forum 8)

So after all these years of looking at great speedrun vids and lurking around the boards (not in too many topics, but I did follow almost all the FF's topics), I finally got an account of my own, and of course my first post has to be in the FFVII thread >_>

Some of you most likely recognize me from gamefaqs, where I'm a regular in the FFVII speedrun discussions.

About the password on floor 62: I can confirm what Farringa said, for the PS NTSC version, there are 4 possible passwords.
However, I remember I also had a version of the game where MAKO was right every time (and I played quite a few times...); namely the german PC version. Coincidence? I think not  ::)
Most likely a bug in the german/pal version.

I mainly wanted to post about the TAS run. I see you guys discussed it a bit. 
Me and BrutalAl have had quite a few thoughts about the possibilities a TAS run offers.
While using Cait's "instant win" Slot is faster in a regular speedrun for sure (not by too much, but it is faster), in a TAS run this might not hold true.
Tifa and her powersoul weapon are of course the reason for that, we played out all the battles (theoretically, we didn't actually play it) and came to the conclusion a "Tifa run" had the potential to be faster than a "Slot run".

First, learning Slots takes a couple of minutes (what the fastest way is, is still a bit of a debate, so I'll leave that open for now), and you have to make sure you have the Limit ready at the start of the battle (or after one attack from the Boss).
Second, the Slot animation is quite long ;D

Tifa on the other hand requires no additional battles, and almost all the fights would still be very very fast.
Just to point out a few key battles:

You get Cait before Dyne. The runs would be the same up to that. 
Dyne would be the same too.
The Stingers can be quickly killed with a M-Tentacle+Braver, so no need for the Slot here.
Gi Nattak goes down with one Elixir.
Against Materia Keeper the Lucky 7 "trick" is very fast, so again, no need for the Slot.
Palmer would be the first battle where Slot is faster, but the Molotovs+Bio+2400 damage Dice idea isn't much slower (couple of seconds).

Now, we assumed it's possible to get a "pre-emptive" battle on all the Bosses. Me, Garland and many others can confirm that it's possible to get back attacks openings on Bosses, but if this is true for all the Bosses is unknown.
The chances for it (if they exist...) would be very slim, but it's a TAS run so who cares ;)

We wouldn't need Deathblow in the Temple of the Ancients yet, since a critical attack from Tifa deals the same damage, so we would only pick it up after Demons Gate (which saves time) and use it when we have Added Cut to go along with it.

Here's how we thought the Demon's Gate battle could go:

First turn: critical back attack from Tifa (~4k of damage with perfect stats for her level)
Second turn: Since his HP dropped below 7,5k he will wave his arms around. Critical attack from Tifa.
Third turn: he will wave his arms around AGAIN (2 times is the max, afterwards he does attack). Critical Attack from Tifa+2 Right Arms to finish him before he gets to attack.

It could even be possible to get 2 attacks before he waves his arms around for the second time (and then one would use the 2 Right Arms after the second attack from Tifa, and finish him with her third attack).

All the Disc2/3 Bosses would go down very quickly too, thanks to Deathblow=Added Cut (and Added Cut would have to go critical every time too, of course).

We think a TAS run with the japanese version (faster than the US version) could end at ~7 hours; the PC version would of course be even faster than that.

Also, I have a little something for you, but I'm not home right now (will be back in about 4 weeks), so I can't upload it. So yeah you'll have to wait 4 weeks to see what it is, but I hope it will be worth the wait ;D

There, of course my first post had to be long, if you know me from GF, you'll know I tend to write extremely long posts  ::)

Carcinogen

2007-08-08 09:07:51 pm

Excellent first post here, Lolo =]

Methinks for a TAS that getting Lucky 7's on Demon's Gate would be faster, provided the runner is willing to go through a bunch of turmoil to get the right numbers. Then again, I'm not entirely sure of the feasibility of that strategy since Tifa would deal around 3600 with Powersoul in a back attack around that part of the game, and I'm not entirely sure if a Pre-Emptive attack is doable against Demon's gate. Perhaps if you threw a Right Arm that does exactly 2223 in a back attack, you could follow up with a third attack that deals 7777.

As for the version differences, Japanese would be faster than American due to obvious reasons. What makes the PC version faster than the Japanese version though?

Another thing, getting the 40 kills on Cait Sith to get Slots, wouldn't that take longer than all our other strategies in a normal game? =|

lolo26

2007-08-10 10:06:36 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

The PC version is simply a lot faster overall. The screens load much faster, especially the battles load lightning fast (look at farringa's run and compare it to garland's and you'll see what I mean).
We estimated the difference between both versions could be as high as 45 minutes.

As for Lucky7's on Demon's Gate, I'm not sure I get the point Shocked

Putting him in Lucky7 would make him a killing machine, wouldn't it?
And he's immune to poison, unlike Materia Keeper (where the poison deals 7777 damage to him), and else I don't see how you would finish him while he is in Lucky 7 status.

But your point about Slots did get me thinking Grin

And I admit I might have spoken too quickly when I said it was faster for sure.
First learning Slots costs a lot of time. I support my idea of learning Aqualung as soon as you leave Gold Saucer (from a Harpy) and then use Aqualung "on the run" on packs of 4 or 5 enemies you encounter (would mainly be in the Gi Cave). The rest of the limit leveling would probably be done in Mt.Nibel where you encounter packs of 3's and 5 enemies.
Overall, 5 minutes to learn the Limit seems about right, Brutal would disagree and say you need a bit more but yeah Roll Eyes

But if Slots really gains those 5-6 minutes back is a though question.
As I said in the last post, up to Palmer the Slot won't help.
Possible to win a couple of seconds back against Palmer.
Getting it in time for Red Dragon could be a problem, but with Fury and Cover it should be doable, or Red Dragon has to attack Cait on the first turn. Again, not much time saved there, because Tifa takes care of Red Dragon quickly too.

Demons Gate would have to open up with a Rock Drop on Cait, but Slots would save quite some time here, about a minute.

Against the 2 Jenova's, Slots would save a very small amount yet again.

Against Schizo however, it would again save about a minute.

Carry Armor goes down with 2 Deathblow=Added Cut, so Slots would be about as fast as Tifa against him.

Let's not even talk about Rude (in fact, even in a Slot run, one would use Tifa here, as one Deathblow kills him, this is what the Ultimania dudes did too <_<)

That brings us to Diamond Weapon.
There is something I'm unsure about against him. He has a physical immunity, like Ruby Weapon, at the start. I know Slots doesn't work on Ruby, as long as he has the immunity on, however Ruby is also immune to Limits, while Diamond Weapon takes damage from them (it's one of the ways to remove his immunity, by using 2 Limits at the start on him).
So if Slots works on him or not is unknown to me. In the worst case however, you would have to use 2 Limits before the Slots. Overall, a good 30 seconds should be saved versus him.

The Turks don't count since we pretty much agreed we would get past them using the well known "trick" (debate is going on between me and Brutal if this is a glitch or not >_>); Garland will most likely not fight them too, especially since he doesn't have Cover Smiley

Proud Clod..mmmmhh...yeah sure, Slots save a little time here again, but again not all that much.

Hojo would require HP manipulation. You would have to make sure the 3 characters you use have 7777 HP total (possible with HP Pluses, which I believe do count towards the total). Then at the start you would need the Transform Slot, and not the Death Joker Slot, getting the giant Cait to have 7777 HP and putting him into Lucky7 fever.
A lot of time saved here I believe, should be a good minute.

The final battles would be a bit problematic with Slots.
For Jenova you can have it at the start, no problem there.
But Bizarro deals pathetic damage, you actually would have to wait until the Arms use a level 3 spell (which they would have to use on Cait, of course), only then would you have the Slot ready.
And Safer is the same problem....the first two turns it's not possible to have Slots (don't think Cait could survive a Shadow Flare), so only the third turn Wing Attack will give him the Limit (hopefully, should be the case however).

Overall, the final battles would still be a lot faster with Slots, something like 2 minutes total sounds about right.

If you add everything up, one sees the margin is small. I tend to think Slots is faster, but it could be the other way around, the 2 runs should be about as fast; we might be talking about a 1-2 minutes advantage for Slots, won't be much more than that, if at all.
These are just speculations, guesses, and estimations anyway, to really be able to compare I would have to record all the battles with Slots and compare it to the times from the Tifa battles (which I have recorded already)...not gonna do that anytime soon however 8)

Well, long post yet again Grin

The PC version is simply a lot faster overall. The screens load much faster, especially the battles load lightning fast (look at farringa's run and compare it to garland's and you'll see what I mean). 
We estimated the difference between both versions could be as high as 45 minutes.

As for Lucky7's on Demon's Gate, I'm not sure I get the point  :o
Putting him in Lucky7 would make him a killing machine, wouldn't it? 
And he's immune to poison, unlike Materia Keeper (where the poison deals 7777 damage to him), and else I don't see how you would finish him while he is in Lucky 7 status.

But your point about Slots did get me thinking ;D
And I admit I might have spoken too quickly when I said it was faster for sure.
First learning Slots costs a lot of time. I support my idea of learning Aqualung as soon as you leave Gold Saucer (from a Harpy) and then use Aqualung "on the run" on packs of 4 or 5 enemies you encounter (would mainly be in the Gi Cave). The rest of the limit leveling would probably be done in Mt.Nibel where you encounter packs of 3's and 5 enemies.
Overall, 5 minutes to learn the Limit seems about right, Brutal would disagree and say you need a bit more but yeah  ::)

But if Slots really gains those 5-6 minutes back is a though question. 
As I said in the last post, up to Palmer the Slot won't help.
Possible to win a couple of seconds back against Palmer.
Getting it in time for Red Dragon could be a problem, but with Fury and Cover it should be doable, or Red Dragon has to attack Cait on the first turn. Again, not much time saved there, because Tifa takes care of Red Dragon quickly too.

Demons Gate would have to open up with a Rock Drop on Cait, but Slots would save quite some time here, about a minute.

Against the 2 Jenova's, Slots would save a very small amount yet again.

Against Schizo however, it would again save about a minute.

Carry Armor goes down with 2 Deathblow=Added Cut, so Slots would be about as fast as Tifa against him.

Let's not even talk about Rude (in fact, even in a Slot run, one would use Tifa here, as one Deathblow kills him, this is what the Ultimania dudes did too <_<)

That brings us to Diamond Weapon. 
There is something I'm unsure about against him. He has a physical immunity, like Ruby Weapon, at the start. I know Slots doesn't work on Ruby, as long as he has the immunity on, however Ruby is also immune to Limits, while Diamond Weapon takes damage from them (it's one of the ways to remove his immunity, by using 2 Limits at the start on him). 
So if Slots works on him or not is unknown to me. In the worst case however, you would have to use 2 Limits before the Slots. Overall, a good 30 seconds should be saved versus him.

The Turks don't count since we pretty much agreed we would get past them using the well known "trick" (debate is going on between me and Brutal if this is a glitch or not >_>); Garland will most likely not fight them too, especially since he doesn't have Cover :)

Proud Clod..mmmmhh...yeah sure, Slots save a little time here again, but again not all that much.

Hojo would require HP manipulation. You would have to make sure the 3 characters you use have 7777 HP total (possible with HP Pluses, which I believe do count towards the total). Then at the start you would need the Transform Slot, and not the Death Joker Slot, getting the giant Cait to have 7777 HP and putting him into Lucky7 fever.
A lot of time saved here I believe, should be a good minute.

The final battles would be a bit problematic with Slots.
For Jenova you can have it at the start, no problem there.
But Bizarro deals pathetic damage, you actually would have to wait until the Arms use a level 3 spell (which they would have to use on Cait, of course), only then would you have the Slot ready.
And Safer is the same problem....the first two turns it's not possible to have Slots (don't think Cait could survive a Shadow Flare), so only the third turn Wing Attack will give him the Limit (hopefully, should be the case however).

Overall, the final battles would still be a lot faster with Slots, something like 2 minutes total sounds about right.

If you add everything up, one sees the margin is small. I tend to think Slots is faster, but it could be the other way around, the 2 runs should be about as fast; we might be talking about a 1-2 minutes advantage for Slots, won't be much more than that, if at all.
These are just speculations, guesses, and estimations anyway, to really be able to compare I would have to record all the battles with Slots and compare it to the times from the Tifa battles (which I have recorded already)...not gonna do that anytime soon however 8)

Well, long post yet again ;D

Wypy

2007-08-10 01:22:05 pm

Deal with it!

Demon's Gate CAN be poisoned if I remember correctly.But he normally gains zero damage. But if he's in Lucky7 he will get killed by the poison.

Carcinogen

2007-08-10 03:02:43 pm

Wait, so they have to be poisoned to take 7777 damage? Lame =| I thought enemies took 7777 damage from any attack at that point.

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2007-08-10 05:58:53 pm

2007-08-10 05:58:13 pm

sda loyalist

No, all attacks from somebody in 7's does 7777. The only reason the poison works like it does on the Keeper is because the poison code has the monster damage themselves. (I think)

7's is primarily meant to be a state your own characters get in, not monsters.

Carcinogen

2007-08-11 02:25:34 am

That would explain a few things Tongue

Back to the drawing board...

GarlandG

2007-09-11 11:36:29 pm

I will knock you all down!

I'm back in business!

I'm proud to present Segment 10, the hardest segment in the entire run.

Part 1:
Part 2:

I did some mistakes, so it's not perfect. Lost like 5 seconds in total, but hey, this is the hardest segment. Enjoy!

Deadstick

2007-09-12 03:25:22 am

...

Glad to see that you're back to working on this, Garland. Excellent work on the latest segment.

Dadark

Edit history:

Dadark: 2007-10-02 02:14:14 pm

2007-10-02 02:13:11 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Really nice job. I just watched the 11 segments on Youtube, and that's great !

I really like the fact that you keep doing a PS run, and not PC, cause (no offence to Farringa, i respect your work :)) even if loads and battles are slower, the PS version still is the most enjoyable to watch, with good audios (not crappy midi tracks), and not laguy at all. Plus, characters dont have stupid adds like wide opened mouthes, etc... :/ (they really wanted to make notifiable differences between versions, but that's just awfull)

I know that in term of pure speedrun, esthetical stuff don't matter, but when you got to watch a 8+ hours of video (of such a game !), good audio tracks and images are welcome to totaly enjoy the performance. Cheesy

I wish you continue this way, and that SDA will accept your run, on PS version of course, so you'll not really be in competition with Farringa, and that would be cool for you two. Wink

Lag.Com

2007-10-04 11:25:57 am

sda loyalist

I'm not sure. Of course, there are timing differences between PC and PS, but instead of making two different categories for a game with no gameplay differences between its ports (unless you've been modifying the data files... I love my FF7 mod), we'd rather instead know how the times could be converted to one another. I would firmly be against having a PC and a PS run of FF7 up, because they are the same game. No control issues, no added content. In some places the ingame script has been changed; I imagine this might total up to a difference of 3 seconds in the entire game, and I don't even know whose side it would be on.

Er, yeah. I seem to remember GarlandG's speed guide saying something about how times could be compared between versions. I suggest we stick to that instead of having two runs where one is clearly better.

Carcinogen

2007-10-04 07:43:50 pm

iirc that depends on processor speed and such.

We'll see how it goes when Garland gets his run down I guess.

Time

2007-10-17 02:14:03 am

Is this still being done?

Carcinogen

2007-10-17 06:55:42 am

Garland's still working on his run. Slowly, but it's coming.

Deadstick

Edit history:

Deadstick: 2007-10-19 03:41:16 am

2007-10-19 03:40:26 am

...

If you're anxious to see more of his run, he does have [link= 11[/link] up since around late september.

GarlandG

2007-12-17 12:27:02 pm

I will knock you all down!

Hello, everyone! I'm not dead... yet. I'm just kinda stuck at segment 11 because I have to redo it in order to reduce the number of random encounters in segment 12 and that requires a lot of luck.

However, I made a promise that I would get out of Midgar by the end of the year and I'm going to keep it. In other words, you will see segment 12 within two weeks.

ShadowLaguna

2007-12-17 11:16:24 pm

THE GAME!!

Just watched Segment 11, Looking good! I can't wait for Segment 12!! Smiley

So what do you guys think the ending time will be with the PS version?