Final Fantasy VI general discussion

2007-04-24 01:10:30 am

Everything's better with Magitek

* Essentia feels dumb
I don't know why I never thought of simply Mimicking Joker Doom. I just tried it, and it did some wacky things. Here's what happened:

Tier 1: I did a reverse 7-7-Bar Joker Doom.

Tier 2: Gogo Mimicked, and did Joker Doom to 2 of the 4 parts. Then he Mimicked again and did nothing. Unfortunately he died here, so I had to use a Fenix Down to bring him back and couldn't Mimic anymore. So then I did a reverse Joker Doom here to finish it off.

Tier 3: Gogo Mimicked and killed one part (the one on the right). Then he Mimicked again and did nothing. Then the part that was left brought the other part back with Life 2. Gogo Mimicked again and this time did Joker Doom to both of them.

Kefka: Gogo Mimicked and did nothing. Kefka did Fallen One. Then Gogo Mimicked and took Kefka out with Joker Doom.

I'm not exactly sure what's happening here, but I tried this a couple times and it was always the same. I'm not sure whether it's faster to Mimic, but it sure is easier. It looks like I'll have to do two 7-7-Bar Joker Dooms, though, because Gogo will have a hard time surviving on Tier 2 long enough to kill them all by Mimicking.

* Essentia feels dumb
I don't know why I never thought of simply Mimicking Joker Doom.  I just tried it, and it did some wacky things.  Here's what happened:

Tier 1: I did a reverse 7-7-Bar Joker Doom.

Tier 2: Gogo Mimicked, and did Joker Doom to 2 of the 4 parts.  Then he Mimicked again and did nothing.  Unfortunately he died here, so I had to use a Fenix Down to bring him back and couldn't Mimic anymore.  So then I did a reverse Joker Doom here to finish it off.

Tier 3: Gogo Mimicked and killed one part (the one on the right).  Then he Mimicked again and did nothing.  Then the part that was left brought the other part back with Life 2.  Gogo Mimicked again and this time did Joker Doom to both of them.

Kefka: Gogo Mimicked and did nothing.  Kefka did Fallen One.  Then Gogo Mimicked and took Kefka out with Joker Doom.

I'm not exactly sure what's happening here, but I tried this a couple times and it was always the same.  I'm not sure whether it's faster to Mimic, but it sure is easier.  It looks like I'll have to do two 7-7-Bar Joker Dooms, though, because Gogo will have a hard time surviving on Tier 2 long enough to kill them all by Mimicking.

Carcinogen

2007-04-24 02:56:49 am

ZED earns a cookie.

Doesn't a 7-7-BAR annihilate your party though?

Essentia

2007-04-24 04:13:03 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Normally it does, but if you Muddle and then un-Muddle Setzer before he does it, it will hit the enemies instead of your party. (Yay for glitches!)

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2007-04-24 06:57:29 am

2007-04-24 06:56:56 am

OoOoh, sneaky sneaky. Though that seems a bit less a glitch and more of an 'unintended feature' </bill gates quote>

rchandra

2007-04-24 10:42:22 pm

Quote:

And here's the WoR part:

Cave and Figaro Castle
-Tentacles: Edgar uses Gravity Rod on lower left, then drills the upper Tentacles if he gets a chance. Celes uses Thunder Rod once (kills lower left), then Ice Rods after that.

Maranda Desert
-Unequip Charm Bangle.
-Echo Screen/Joker Doom as many Cactrots as needed to have Celes learn Vanish and Edgar learn Doom (hopefully only 1 or 2). If Edgar learns his before Celes, give him Unicorn.

I am by no means an expert or a speedrunner - but why Echo Screen / Joker Doom Cactrots? Doesn't Drill always hit them? My apologies if I'm thinking of something else, like maybe chainsaw which you won't have.

Essentia

2007-04-24 10:48:59 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

You know, I haven't actually tried Drill on Cactrots. I'll have to see if it works; it would definitely be easier (and quicker) than doing Joker Doom. Thanks for the suggestion.

This is why I posted my plans, btw. If anyone else has any suggestions, please let me know.

Freezing_Inferno

2007-04-24 10:51:42 pm

We deal in lead.

Drill works on Cactuars in the GBA version.

Essentia

2007-04-25 02:17:58 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Okay, I just tested it, and Drill does work on Cactrots, so I'll use that instead of Joker Doom. Thanks, rchandra!

Red_Scarlet

2007-04-26 07:49:01 pm

"I like to watch"

Don't dice work on them also?

Essentia

2007-04-27 01:13:57 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I don't know about dice--maybe they work on Cactrots, but I wouldn't want to depend on them because of their randomness. Drill will work just fine.

BTW, I did a complete practice run yesterday to see if my entire plan will work, and it will for the most part. (There are just a few small things I need to change.) It wasn't quite single-segment, more like 5 segments, and there were a bunch of mistakes that I made and left in. What's interesting, though, is that I beat the current segmented run by about 2 minutes...

nate

2007-04-27 02:20:01 am

owned.

Master ZED

2007-04-27 04:55:04 am

Quote:

I don't know about dice--maybe they work on Cactrots, but I wouldn't want to depend on them because of their randomness. Drill will work just fine.

Actually, Dice are unblockable, ignore defense, and Cactrots only have 3 HP so the randomosity factor is null here (the only thing random is damage, determined by the numbers you get). This is about the only situation in which Dice are worth more than Beads.

Of course, that doesn't mean you should use it; you already have the Drill, and the 5000 GP/seconds spent buying the Dice are better used elsewhere... but you knew that already. Wink

I just wanted to clarify why the idea was suggested.

Essentia

2007-04-27 05:10:24 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Yeah, thanks for clarifying that, Master ZED. I guess I had a brain cramp and forgot that Cactrots have only 3 HP. Tongue

Carcinogen

2007-04-27 05:53:13 am

Split it into five segments? Dayum.

Good luck finding the time of day to do this run, amirite? =X

Essentia

2007-04-27 06:58:26 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Well, tomorrow is my last day of classes, and then I have only one final, which is on Monday. So the rest of next week is pretty open to me, and I'm planning to record this sometime then. I'll just have to make sure my husband is home to answer the phone and stuff like that. Wink

Rhonin

2007-04-27 07:14:22 am

Aku Soku Zan

Quote:

Narshe
-1st battle: Terra takes Vicks and Wedge out with Fire so she gets more experience. (Not the fastest way, I know, but it'll make Locke and Edgar join at higher levels.)

-Put Locke in back row. (?)

Looks pretty straight forward. If you leave the Fenix Down here, it will become a Pod Bracelet in the WoR. Might be useful to you when you come back for Mog. If you plan on fighting, I would keep him in the front until you get Edgar.

Quote:

Returner's Hideout
-Say no to Banon once, then pick up Genji Glove. Also get True Knight, Air Lancet (?), Tincture, and White Cape while in that room.

If you don't pick up the Air Lancet, you can steal one from TunnelArmor.

Quote:

-Where you follow the light, take a shorter route like in the TAS instead of following the entire route. (?)

Yes, it's faster to "tag" the light and make your own trail.

Red_Scarlet

Edit history:

Red_Scarlet: 2007-04-28 01:34:45 am

2007-04-28 01:33:00 am

"I like to watch"

Quote:

I don't know about dice--maybe they work on Cactrots, but I wouldn't want to depend on them because of their randomness. Drill will work just fine.

Don't they have just a few HP so the dice would kill them even if you got a 1 and a 1 roll?

Oops, already said.
Oops, they are pretty expensive to buy, was thinking they were a bit cheaper.

Enhasa

2007-04-30 01:17:05 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I don't think this is terribly useful, because it could be faster to just get another character instead (I don't remember), but if the only holdup to getting Gem Box is not wanting to have to get Life3, you can beat MagiMaster without it. You just need Wall Rings, Palidor, and I forget the exact details, but I'm 100% sure I've done it. I remember it's more tricky than you would think, but I also think it would be feasible in a SS.

Essentia

2007-04-30 04:30:31 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I think I know what method you're talking about, Enhasa--someone correct me if I'm wrong. You give everyone a Wall Ring so that Magi Master's spells can't hit anyone, and then get him down to where he's almost dead. Then summon Palidor and kill him before everyone lands. Then when he casts Ultima as a finishing move, it won't hit whoever hasn't landed yet.

I thought more about this after seeing your post. If I get the Gem Box this way, then I can avoid getting Sabin in the WoR and have Celes go solo in Kefka's Tower. She would learn Doom instead of Sabin. I could also avoid getting Gogo and have Edgar go solo as well (because he will know both Vanish and Doom), but then I couldn't Mimic Joker Doom in the final battles. The final battles would still be possible but not as easy.

I'm not certain that getting the Gem Box would be overall faster, though; it might still be tough to kill Magi Master quickly. Waiting for him to kill himself by bouncing spells off the Wall Rings will probably take way too long, and teaching my characters some high level magic will also take time, not to mention the time it would take to get the Espers that teach these spells in the first place. (If I'm going to learn spells like Ultima, I might as well learn Life3 and avoid using Palidor.) Also, this way seems to have more risk factors: timing Palidor correctly against Magi Master, and having Celes and possibly Edgar solo Kefka's Tower.

So at this point I don't think I'll get the Gem Box. Please feel free to tell me if you think I should do otherwise, though.

I think I know what method you're talking about, Enhasa--someone correct me if I'm wrong.  You give everyone a Wall Ring so that Magi Master's spells can't hit anyone, and then get him down to where he's almost dead.  Then summon Palidor and kill him before everyone lands.  Then when he casts Ultima as a finishing move, it won't hit whoever hasn't landed yet.

I thought more about this after seeing your post.  If I get the Gem Box this way, then I can avoid getting Sabin in the WoR and have Celes go solo in Kefka's Tower.  She would learn Doom instead of Sabin.  I could also avoid getting Gogo and have Edgar go solo as well (because he will know both Vanish and Doom), but then I couldn't Mimic Joker Doom in the final battles.  The final battles would still be possible but not as easy.

I'm not certain that getting the Gem Box would be overall faster, though; it might still be tough to kill Magi Master quickly.  Waiting for him to kill himself by bouncing spells off the Wall Rings will probably take way too long, and teaching my characters some high level magic will also take time, not to mention the time it would take to get the Espers that teach these spells in the first place.  (If I'm going to learn spells like Ultima, I might as well learn Life3 and avoid using Palidor.)  Also, this way seems to have more risk factors: timing Palidor correctly against Magi Master, and having Celes and possibly Edgar solo Kefka's Tower.

So at this point I don't think I'll get the Gem Box.  Please feel free to tell me if you think I should do otherwise, though.

Enhasa

2007-04-30 07:17:29 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I guess you would have to test, but yeah that's how it works. Thinking about it more, I seem to remember that since jump is like fight and fight is nerfed, you actually miss or it does very little damage, something like that. So you wait until he's one hit from death (gogo calculator) and team jump. Someone will land and MM will cast on them and suicide, and your airborne guys will win. You got it.

MM actually kills himself rather quickly (I wouldn't suggest learning attack spells), but I'm still leaning towards the 6-character party. If nothing else, it would be easier, which is important SS.

Red_Scarlet

2007-04-30 10:18:58 am

"I like to watch"

Is there any way you could cast Vanish on him, then use Palidor, then have someone cast a death spell on him after jumping while others are still in the air?

Master ZED

2007-04-30 11:20:06 am

Quote:

Is there any way you could cast Vanish on him *snip*

No.

(in the status/immune listings, Clear status is the Vanish/Fader spell)

Carcinogen

2007-04-30 08:44:14 pm

Stupid question, but assuming you don't get Celes in World of Balance, can the other moogle you get instead in the World of Ruin equip Relics or is it restricted like other temporary characters?

Likely not, but I figured it'd be worth a shot to equip the Moogle charm if it worked.

Enhasa

2007-04-30 09:03:05 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

You're right, you can't change equips.

Carcinogen

2007-04-30 09:28:30 pm

Oh.