Final Fantasy VI general discussion

Lucid Faia

2007-03-30 11:22:23 pm

Yeah, I said it.

Can Gogo equip Cyan's weapons naturally? Or do you need a Merit Award?

Essentia

2007-03-30 11:41:25 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

I think he needs the Merit Award to do it.

Anyway, I got the TAS from nate; I haven't watched the entire thing, but I skipped to the final battles, and wow! If it's possible to do what they did on a console, then I won't have to use Psycho Cyan at all. Haven't tried it yet, though.

Carcinogen

2007-03-31 04:20:05 am

You don't need Cyan's weapons to do Swdtech with Gogo. Just a knife. In particular, I just bought a Swordbreaker from the weapons shop in Miranda in WoR.

Lucid Faia

Edit history:

Lucid Faia: 2007-03-31 04:42:19 am

2007-03-31 04:40:39 am

Yeah, I said it.

Wow. You have a lot game-breaking weapons to choose from, Essentia. With two "Psycho" characters and a third that can cast Joker Doom at will, you could potentially skip learning Vanish and Doom altogether. That would be something. Not sure if getting Gogo is in the best interest of time, though.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-03-31 04:50:03 am

2007-03-31 04:48:48 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Hmm...it looks like I'll have to decide whether to get Cyan or Gogo. I'm leaning towards Cyan, though, because he should know the necessary magic to get through Kefka's Tower.

BTW, I've changed the plan for the final bosses. Now Psycho Cyan will be used only on Tier 3. It's much faster to do what they did in the TAS: Have Setzer do 7-7-Bar Joker Doom, but muddle him and then smack him before he does it. This ends up casting it on the boss, even though you're not supposed to be able to do it in these battles. I just tried this out, and it worked on each of the tiers, but then Setzer got hit with Calmness, so I couldn't do it on Kefka (and Setzer had the Safety Bit on, so now I know for sure that it doesn't protect against Calmness). So I'll use Psycho Cyan on Tier 3 to cancel the Calmness final attack.

Edit: I don't think I'll completely skip Vanish/Doom, because Psycho Cyan is a pretty slow method.

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2007-03-31 05:00:18 am

2007-03-31 04:57:26 am

Quote:

Wow. You have a lot game-breaking weapons to choose from, Essentia. With two "Psycho" characters and a third that can cast Joker Doom at will, you could potentially skip learning Vanish and Doom altogether. That would be something. Not sure if getting Gogo is in the best interest of time, though.

Make that 3 1/2 that can use Joker Doom. Gogo =]

Yes, Gogo probably isn't in the best interest of time. But, we could probably replace Mog with Gogo. How do you abuse the moogle charm? I'm unfamiliar with that glitch.

Emptyeye

2007-03-31 05:03:45 am

Talk to the Hand

I don't know if you'd call it abuse, but I know I used the thing to quickly get up Fanatic's Tower or whatever.

It's a No Encounters relic (Accessory? What're they called in FFVI?), pretty much.

Essentia

2007-03-31 05:05:26 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote:

I don't know if you'd call it abuse, but I know I used the thing to quickly get up Fanatic's Tower or whatever.

It's a No Encounters relic (Accessory? What're they called in FFVI?), pretty much.

That would be the Moogle Charm relic, which I'm planning to abuse as much as possible. Wink

Although I'm trying to avoid Fanatics' Tower if I can.

Lucid Faia

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Lucid Faia: 2007-03-31 05:09:56 am

2007-03-31 05:09:11 am

Yeah, I said it.

I'm trying to imagine a practical World of Ruin scenario. First the three required characters (Celes, Edgar, Setzer) plus Sabin, then the airship. I imagine the first thing to do at this point would be to get the Moogle Charm. Afterwards, Cyan and maybe Gogo.

...I wonder if it's possible to just raid Kefka's tower at that point, with no power leveling, and no grinding magic points. You'd have three characters with abilities that can win virtually any battle, regardless of level, one character for each division of Kefka's Tower. It might be very risky for a single-segment run, but there could be an enormous amount of time saved if it works.

Carcinogen

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Carcinogen: 2007-03-31 05:11:19 am

2007-03-31 05:10:06 am

Maybe I should do a bit more testing... Where do you get the moogle charm? Also, does wearing a moogle suit allow you to use the moogle charm? If so, can Gogo wear a moogle suit?

*goes to look up game genie codes to do more testing*

Lucid Faia

2007-03-31 05:12:57 am

Yeah, I said it.

The Moogle Charm is a relic which only Mog can equip, no exceptions. After Mog joins the party in the WoR, you simply examine the wall he was facing to get the Charm. You pick the character and the relic up at the same time.

Carcinogen

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Carcinogen: 2007-03-31 05:17:38 am

2007-03-31 05:15:22 am

oh. We can throw that out the window then =X

I need to brush up on the game a little more.

Though, theoretically, you could beat the game at that point if you just use Vanish + X-Zone on bosses in the Tower, Perhaps a bit of Joker Doom.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-03-31 05:20:38 am

2007-03-31 05:19:30 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote:

I'm trying to imagine a practical World of Ruin scenario. First the three required characters (Celes, Edgar, Setzer) plus Sabin, then the airship. I imagine the first thing to do at this point would be to get the Moogle Charm. Afterwards, Cyan and maybe Gogo.

...I wonder if it's possible to just raid Kefka's tower at that point, with no power leveling, and no grinding magic points. You'd have three characters with abilities that can win virtually any battle, regardless of level, one character for each division of Kefka's Tower. It might be very risky for a single-segment run, but there could be an enormous amount of time saved if it works.

That's what I was hoping to be able to do, although if any of the groups in Kefka's Tower have Vanish/Doom (without any extra magic learning in the WoR), I'll use that instead of Psycho Cyan. At least one group should have it, but ideally I would like both to have it. It can be kind of difficult to activate Psycho Cyan with only two people in the group.

Edit: Doom would be much better to use than X-Zone, because the Esper that teaches X-Zone has to be bought at the auction house in the WoR.

[quote]I'm trying to imagine a practical World of Ruin scenario. First the three required characters (Celes, Edgar, Setzer) plus Sabin, then the airship. I imagine the first thing to do at this point would be to get the Moogle Charm. Afterwards, Cyan and maybe Gogo.

...I wonder if it's possible to just raid Kefka's tower at that point, with no power leveling, and no grinding magic points. You'd have three characters with abilities that can win virtually any battle, regardless of level, one character for each division of Kefka's Tower. It might be very risky for a single-segment run, but there could be an enormous amount of time saved if it works.[/quote]
That's what I was hoping to be able to do, although if any of the groups in Kefka's Tower have Vanish/Doom (without any extra magic learning in the WoR), I'll use that instead of Psycho Cyan.  At least one group should have it, but ideally I would like both to have it.  It can be kind of difficult to activate Psycho Cyan with only two people in the group.

Edit: Doom would be much better to use than X-Zone, because the Esper that teaches X-Zone has to be bought at the auction house in the WoR.

Lucid Faia

Edit history:

Lucid Faia: 2007-03-31 05:27:21 am

2007-03-31 05:26:14 am

Yeah, I said it.

Under my hypothetical scenario, there would be seven characters in the party: Celes, Sabin, Edgar, Setzer, Mog, Cyan, and Gogo. You could have two parties of two, including Setzer and Gogo; setting up two Echo Screen / Joker Doom tag teams nicely. The third party would have three characters and could include Cyan, to make the process of triggering his glitch easier.

Vanish/Doom would definitely make things easier, but here's the question: does the time saved by having Vanish/Doom in Kefka's Tower cancel out the time spent grinding in the Cactrot desert? I'm not sure that works out in Vanish/Doom's favor.

...Of course, we are talking about a single-segment run, and it's possible that relying on just Joker Doom and Psycho Cyan at low levels is impractical without Vanish/Doom. This is definitely something worth testing.

Carcinogen

2007-03-31 05:27:24 am

....Wait, why are we going to Kefka's tower?

Lucid Faia

2007-03-31 05:28:43 am

Yeah, I said it.

Quote:

....Wait, why are we going to Kefka's tower?

Because that's how you beat the game. Roll Eyes

Kefka's Tower and the Fanatic's Tower aren't the same place.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-03-31 05:31:13 am

2007-03-31 05:29:45 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Yes, these things do need to be tested. I just started a sort of practice run--it's not perfect and I'm not necessarily going for speed, but I'm going to try to get to the WoR with the levels and magic that they'll have in the actual run. I'm not very far yet, though--only at the Returners' Hideout.

Edit:

Quote:

....Wait, why are we going to Kefka's tower?

LOL.;)

Carcinogen

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Carcinogen: 2007-03-31 05:45:08 am

2007-03-31 05:43:51 am

oh shi- Oops =X

I totally blanked out there. I'm always miss minor details like that.

EDIT: Much like the "I'm" in "I'm always miss minor details like that. See? =O

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-04-03 07:06:47 pm

2007-04-03 03:19:09 am

Everything's better with Magitek

The trickiest part of this run seems to be figuring out who to teach spells to and when to do it. It seems to me that having two pairs of people who know Vanish/Doom will save time over using Psycho Cyan for one of the groups in Kefka's Tower, mainly because it's so difficult to pull off Psycho Cyan with only two people in the party that I would probably have to pick up another person. Also, Vanish/Doom takes significantly less time to kill the boss than Psycho Cyan. These are the spells that I will need:

Vanish (x3 learn rate): I don't actually need it until Kefka's Tower, but it would be nice to have for 4th Ultros. Two people need to know this (neither of them Setzer).
Doom (x2): Same as Vanish.
Imp (x5): Needed only for Tier 3 for Psycho Cyan; Celes will learn it automatically.
Muddle (x7): If I don't have Vanish/Doom for 4th Ultros, then I will need this for that fight; otherwise, I don't need it until the final battle. Must have someone other than Setzer learn this.
Float (x2): Needed only for Tier 1, to survive its Quake final attack.

There are 4 main places that people will be able to learn these spells along the way: Vector, Cave to the Sealed Gate, Floating Continent, and Daryl's Tomb. Since I'll be getting into battles in those places anyway, I'll try to use them to learn as much magic as possible. Here's my tentative (untested) plan for learning magic:

1. Take Edgar and Sabin to Vector. Have Edgar start learning Vanish and Sabin learning Doom once I get those espers; they will get 16 15 magic points toward these spells.

2. Pick up Mog in Narshe.

3. Take Setzer, Sabin, and Cyan to the Cave to Sealed Gate. Sabin continues learning Doom, Setzer starts learning Float (will learn Imp as well), and Cyan learns Muddle.

4. Take Setzer, Cyan, and Mog to the Floating Continent. Setzer keeps learning Float, Cyan starts learning Doom, and Mog starts learning Vanish. They will get 15 MP from the fights on the airship, 10 from Atma Weapon, and around 12 from Naughtys, so hopefully they will all learn their spells here.

5. Pick up Sabin at first opportunity in WoR.

6. In Daryl's Tomb, hopefully Edgar will finish learning Vanish and Sabin will finish learning Doom. Setzer and Celes can learn anything that might be useful.

Then the parties in Kefka's Tower will be (not necessarily in order):

Celes & Setzer (Echo Screen/Joker Doom)
Edgar & Sabin (Vanish/Doom)
Cyan & Mog (Vanish/Doom)

For the final battles, I'll use Celes, Setzer, Cyan, and Sabin. I'll do Psycho Cyan on Tier 3 to avoid Calmness, and then a reverse 7-7-Bar Joker Doom to everything else.

I'm hoping this will work, and I'm going to try it out in the next couple days. It all depends on whether or not they'll get enough magic points in each place to learn the needed spells.

The trickiest part of this run seems to be figuring out who to teach spells to and when to do it.  It seems to me that having two pairs of people who know Vanish/Doom will save time over using Psycho Cyan for one of the groups in Kefka's Tower, mainly because it's so difficult to pull off Psycho Cyan with only two people in the party that I would probably have to pick up another person.  Also, Vanish/Doom takes significantly less time to kill the boss than Psycho Cyan.  These are the spells that I will need:

Vanish (x3 learn rate): I don't actually need it until Kefka's Tower, but it would be nice to have for 4th Ultros.  Two people need to know this (neither of them Setzer).
Doom (x2): Same as Vanish.
Imp (x5): Needed only for Tier 3 for Psycho Cyan; Celes will learn it automatically.
Muddle (x7): If I don't have Vanish/Doom for 4th Ultros, then I will need this for that fight; otherwise, I don't need it until the final battle.  Must have someone other than Setzer learn this.
Float (x2): Needed only for Tier 1, to survive its Quake final attack.

There are 4 main places that people will be able to learn these spells along the way: Vector, Cave to the Sealed Gate, Floating Continent, and Daryl's Tomb.  Since I'll be getting into battles in those places anyway, I'll try to use them to learn as much magic as possible.  Here's my tentative (untested) plan for learning magic:

1.  Take Edgar and Sabin to Vector.  Have Edgar start learning Vanish and Sabin learning Doom once I get those espers; they will get [s]16[/s] 15 magic points toward these spells.

2.  Pick up Mog in Narshe.

3.  Take Setzer, Sabin, and Cyan to the Cave to Sealed Gate.  Sabin continues learning Doom, Setzer starts learning Float (will learn Imp as well), and Cyan learns Muddle.

4.  Take Setzer, Cyan, and Mog to the Floating Continent.  Setzer keeps learning Float, Cyan starts learning Doom, and Mog starts learning Vanish.  They will get 15 MP from the fights on the airship, 10 from Atma Weapon, and around 12 from Naughtys, so hopefully they will all learn their spells here.

5.  Pick up Sabin at first opportunity in WoR.

6.  In Daryl's Tomb, hopefully Edgar will finish learning Vanish and Sabin will finish learning Doom.  Setzer and Celes can learn anything that might be useful.

Then the parties in Kefka's Tower will be (not necessarily in order):

Celes & Setzer (Echo Screen/Joker Doom)
Edgar & Sabin (Vanish/Doom)
Cyan & Mog (Vanish/Doom)

For the final battles, I'll use Celes, Setzer, Cyan, and Sabin.  I'll do Psycho Cyan on Tier 3 to avoid Calmness, and then a reverse 7-7-Bar Joker Doom to everything else.

I'm hoping this will work, and I'm going to try it out in the next couple days.  It all depends on whether or not they'll get enough magic points in each place to learn the needed spells.

Darkwing Duck

2007-04-03 04:31:39 am

Highly Evolved

Since you're doing this single segment, you'll need healing items. You will get hit running/echo screen use. Will Celes be enough?

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-04-03 04:52:29 am

2007-04-03 04:46:56 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Are you talking just about Kefka's Tower? That is something to think about. The one group will have the Moogle Charm, so no need to worry about that one. The other two groups can use the Charm Bangle (reduces the number of random encounters) and then use Smoke Bombs to escape battles (faster than running away). I'll also get Force Armor/Shield, which boost M.Block quite a bit and will make it a lot harder for enemies to hit them. And it'd be good to give them Running Shoes so they can get their turns faster and hopefully get out of the battle before getting hit.

Edit: I can also use Gale Hairpin to increase chances of preemptive attacks and Back Guard to eliminate back attacks and pincer attacks.

Carcinogen

2007-04-03 05:03:03 am

I think I've contributed all I can think of to this discussion. Good luck on the run. I'll watch this for sure =]

BalnabZ

2007-04-09 04:12:27 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

You said you were looking at my run. A few things I should have done differently:
-At the first fork in the Lete River, Left is fastest.
-At the falls Rizopas shows up 60 seconds into the battle, no matter how many formations of Pyrahnas you kill (so it's best to kill the last Pyranha in a formation at the 60 second mark).
-Thunder Rod the TunnelArmr. (I think someone else already said this one).

Nobody seems interested in this anymore, but getting to level 99 and then dying doesn't do you any good because dying does not reset the game timer.

I did know about Psycho Cyan, but I never even experimented with it because I didn't think it would be efficient. I'm interested to see how well it works.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-04-09 05:55:24 am

2007-04-09 05:54:27 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Thanks for the tips, BalnabZ. I figured there was something up with the piranha battle when I watched the TAS, but I didn't know exactly how it worked. As for the Thunder Rod, I'm wondering if it would be better to use it on Kefka instead of Tunnel Armor. I've tested it on both, and it saves more time on Kefka. I'm not sure which of these battles is more dangerous

For a segmented run, I don't think Psycho Cyan would be worth it, because it is a very slow method. However, since it's safer, I'm planning to use it in this single-segment run, but in one place only (against 3rd Tier).

Edit: Dying really doesn't reset the timer, huh? I sure thought it did, but I could be wrong.

Dragondarch

2007-04-09 12:00:40 pm

Pudding%

Quote:

Edit: Dying really doesn't reset the timer, huh? I sure thought it did, but I could be wrong.

IIRC, it does reset the step counter.