Final Fantasy VI general discussion

Essentia

2012-11-10 06:03:12 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

I don't really know how random encounters work - that's why I'm hoping some TASers could help out with this.

Darkwing Duck

2012-11-10 06:08:19 pm

Highly Evolved

Hmm...I wonder in the meantime if there's a way to test out the Veldt. I know in Lufia 2, Dragondarch knew how many steps he could take in the overworld before he had to use a spell to use the number that would trigger a random encounter. If FFVI worked the same way, you could start a save file at the beginning of the Veldt, see how many steps you walk before an encounter, note the encounter, reset, and see if the same result happens.

I also recall seeing something somewhere on the Veldt mechanics. Something about all encounters are in I think seven groupings, and that a specific encounter grabs from a specific grouping. Maybe I'll look around for that.

Terribleno

2012-11-10 06:09:49 pm

Quote:

Another thing I've been wondering about (maybe some TAS people can help): When I get to the Veldt in a SS run, my first battle is almost always Templar x2 Soldier x2, which is inescapable. Every once in a while I don't get that battle, though, so I'm wondering what determines the first battle that you get and if it's possible to manipulate it.

$307FF1 is the main RNG index, saved at all times unless your battery is dead. The only times $307FF1 are written to is here, when the loading screen is invoked...

Code:

Invoke game loading screen
(gen. act. AB)

C0/B91B:	A902    	LDA #$02		
C0/B91D:	8D0002  	STA $0200
C0/B920:	20CAC6  	JSR $C6CA      (jump to C3/0000->C3/001B)
C0/B923:	AFF17F30	LDA $307FF1
C0/B927:	18      	CLC
C0/B928:	690D    	ADC #$0D
C0/B92A:	8FF17F30	STA $307FF1
C0/B92E:	8D6D1F  	STA $1F6D      (RNG index)
C0/B931:	8DA11F  	STA $1FA1      (index when overworld encounter will occur)
C0/B934:	8DA21F  	STA $1FA2      (index when town/dungeon encounter will occur)
C0/B937:	8DA41F  	STA $1FA4      (overworld addition for encounter rate)
C0/B93A:	8DA31F  	STA $1FA3      (town/dungeon addition for encounter rate)
C0/B93D:	8DA51F  	STA $1FA5      (Veldt pack #, obviously $1FA1-$1FA5 will be the same at load up)
C0/B940:	AD0502  	LDA $0205
C0/B943:	2980    	AND #$80
C0/B945:	851A    	STA $1A
C0/B947:	ADDF1E  	LDA $1EDF
C0/B94A:	297F    	AND #$7F
C0/B94C:	051A    	ORA $1A
C0/B94E:	8DDF1E  	STA $1EDF
C0/B951:	6458    	STZ $58
C0/B953:	20F36C  	JSR $6CF3      (calls equipment check function)
C0/B956:	208603  	JSR $0386
C0/B959:	A901    	LDA #$01
C0/B95B:	4C5C9B  	JMP $9B5C

...and here...

Code:

$0200 is #$02, used when the loading screen is called
C3/016F:	AFF17F30	LDA $307FF1
C3/0173:	1A      	INC A
C3/0174:	8FF17F30	STA $307FF1
C3/0178:	2224A4C3	JSL $C3A424    (timer resetting for input decoding)
C3/017C:	202370  	JSR $7023      (make sure SRAM markers are intact)
C3/017F:	901E    	BCC $019F      (branch if not, which forces a new game)
C3/0181:	A901    	LDA #$01
C3/0183:	8D0113  	STA $1301      (set song as the Prelude)
C3/0186:	A910    	LDA #$10
C3/0188:	8D0013  	STA $1300
C3/018B:	A980    	LDA #$80
C3/018D:	8D0213  	STA $1302      (normal volume)
C3/0190:	220400C5	JSL $C50004    (play the Prelude)
C3/0194:	A9FF    	LDA #$FF
C3/0196:	8D0502  	STA $0205
C3/0199:	A920    	LDA #$20
C3/019B:	8526    	STA $26        (execute at C3/1D03)
C3/019D:	801B    	BRA $01BA

If you know where $1F6D starts (Doomgaze position, townsfolk walking, etc), then you should have an idea of what Veldt pack number you have.

[quote]Another thing I've been wondering about (maybe some TAS people can help): When I get to the Veldt in a SS run, my first battle is almost always Templar x2 Soldier x2, which is inescapable. Every once in a while I don't get that battle, though, so I'm wondering what determines the first battle that you get and if it's possible to manipulate it.[/quote]
$307FF1 is the main RNG index, saved at all times unless your battery is dead. The only times $307FF1 are written to is here, when the loading screen is invoked...
[code]Invoke game loading screen
(gen. act. AB)

C0/B91B:	A902    	LDA #$02		
C0/B91D:	8D0002  	STA $0200
C0/B920:	20CAC6  	JSR $C6CA      (jump to C3/0000->C3/001B)
C0/B923:	AFF17F30	LDA $307FF1
C0/B927:	18      	CLC
C0/B928:	690D    	ADC #$0D
C0/B92A:	8FF17F30	STA $307FF1
C0/B92E:	8D6D1F  	STA $1F6D      (RNG index)
C0/B931:	8DA11F  	STA $1FA1      (index when overworld encounter will occur)
C0/B934:	8DA21F  	STA $1FA2      (index when town/dungeon encounter will occur)
C0/B937:	8DA41F  	STA $1FA4      (overworld addition for encounter rate)
C0/B93A:	8DA31F  	STA $1FA3      (town/dungeon addition for encounter rate)
C0/B93D:	8DA51F  	STA $1FA5      (Veldt pack #, obviously $1FA1-$1FA5 will be the same at load up)
C0/B940:	AD0502  	LDA $0205
C0/B943:	2980    	AND #$80
C0/B945:	851A    	STA $1A
C0/B947:	ADDF1E  	LDA $1EDF
C0/B94A:	297F    	AND #$7F
C0/B94C:	051A    	ORA $1A
C0/B94E:	8DDF1E  	STA $1EDF
C0/B951:	6458    	STZ $58
C0/B953:	20F36C  	JSR $6CF3      (calls equipment check function)
C0/B956:	208603  	JSR $0386
C0/B959:	A901    	LDA #$01
C0/B95B:	4C5C9B  	JMP $9B5C[/code]
...and here...
[code]$0200 is #$02, used when the loading screen is called
C3/016F:	AFF17F30	LDA $307FF1
C3/0173:	1A      	INC A
C3/0174:	8FF17F30	STA $307FF1
C3/0178:	2224A4C3	JSL $C3A424    (timer resetting for input decoding)
C3/017C:	202370  	JSR $7023      (make sure SRAM markers are intact)
C3/017F:	901E    	BCC $019F      (branch if not, which forces a new game)
C3/0181:	A901    	LDA #$01
C3/0183:	8D0113  	STA $1301      (set song as the Prelude)
C3/0186:	A910    	LDA #$10
C3/0188:	8D0013  	STA $1300
C3/018B:	A980    	LDA #$80
C3/018D:	8D0213  	STA $1302      (normal volume)
C3/0190:	220400C5	JSL $C50004    (play the Prelude)
C3/0194:	A9FF    	LDA #$FF
C3/0196:	8D0502  	STA $0205
C3/0199:	A920    	LDA #$20
C3/019B:	8526    	STA $26        (execute at C3/1D03)
C3/019D:	801B    	BRA $01BA[/code]

If you know where $1F6D starts (Doomgaze position, townsfolk walking, etc), then you should have an idea of what Veldt pack number you have.

Darkwing Duck

Edit history:

Darkwing Duck: 2012-11-10 06:17:30 pm

2012-11-10 06:15:07 pm

Highly Evolved

Point 6.2 of the algorithm FAQ on Gamefaqs shows the packs and what's in them.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/554041-final-fantasy-iii/faqs/35118

Looks like the two templars and two soldiers are the first possible grouping in group 52, so there would have to be a way to manipulate not getting group 52 when you first get to the Veldt.

EDIT:

Hmm...upon looking more at that FAQ, it says it takes randomly from the grouping. So to lower the chance of that particular group, I think you need to encounter as many formations in that group as possible so that you can encounter them on the Veldt.

UserName001

2012-11-11 05:33:54 am

Quote:

$307FF1 is the main RNG index, saved at all times unless your battery is dead.

I was just passing through and I found that interesting.

Would there be any advantages (or dis-advantages) doing a speedrun on a an SNES cart with a dead battery or with the battery removed?

If there were advantages would the SDA allow it?

puwexil

2012-11-11 07:10:30 am

Professional Second Banana

That would be considered a Game Modification, which isn't allowed by SDA per http://speeddemosarchive.com/lang/rules_en.html.

Rakuen

2012-11-11 01:57:52 pm

Weegee Time

If that's how the RNG index works, would you have to replace a dead battery to use the cart for a speedrun?

UserName001

2012-11-14 05:30:46 am

Well I agree that it technically should be a violation of the Game Modification rules at that link:

Quote:

-Game modification: Removing or altering a game's internal files or hardware is forbidden. This rule includes things like software mods or using the crooked cartridge trick in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

But, what would stop someone from playing with a dead battery anyway... If it's a single segment run, they might not even know it had died...

Melodia

2012-11-14 11:56:18 am

It's incredibly unlikely someone wouldn't know they were playing a game with a dead battery.

I assume, though, that putting in a new battery would be legit?

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2012-12-15 05:41:49 pm

Essentia: 2012-12-15 05:41:38 pm

2012-12-15 05:37:29 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Just got a new record! 4:36 game time (4:57 real time), which beats my current run on SDA by 12 minutes. I'm definitely submitting this. Smiley

You can watch the Twitch recording here.

brassmaster

2012-12-15 05:46:00 pm

Wow! congrats to that Essentia! Forget doing a segmented run, you've got it covered SS haha.

Magnum66

2012-12-15 05:48:48 pm

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

Congrats! Go figure, the one time I don't watch I miss this live Sad

rinimt

2012-12-15 06:48:20 pm

Kupo!

Huge congrats, Essentia! That run was amazing Cheesy

bangagong

2013-02-27 02:33:58 pm

So I've been working on a 100% SS run of this game, I wasn't sure if I should start a new post for this or just add onto this one.
Right now I'm playing the US version for SNES.

I've gotten my WoB route pretty much done, nothing too special, It's mostly about what epsers to give everyone and when so that I have most of the spells I'll need by the end of the game, I think I'll spend a few minutes fighting cactrots and hoovers once I get to the WoR. I don't think I'm using any new tricks or strats to get through the game, just lots of joker doom and M.block.
I haven't finalized my WoR route yet, I have about half of it planned out so far, I just need to do some testing to see what order works best for me.

A big part of the route planning is RNG protection, that is, making sure I don't get annihilated if a boss does an attack that could wipe out my party before I can get a turn in. This really isn't a big deal, because most of the time you can make sure that at least someone survives in any given battle by giving them the right shield or enough M.block.

So far, I've only timed myself up to the opera house (where I got slaughtered by ultros T_T), so I've been practicing all of the tricky parts before timing myself again; avoiding the guards in the Narshe battles, beating Dadaluma before he can use potions, running from Ifrit/Shiva, and countless joker dooms of course!

Also, this thread has been invaluable in learning new tricks and routes, and following the evolution of this run from page 1 has really helped me understand a lot of the "how" and "Why" about running this game.

BTW: This is the first game I've ever tried to speedrun and any advice is more than welcome.

So I've been working on a 100% SS run of this game,  I wasn't sure if I should start a new post for this or just add onto this one.
Right now I'm playing the US version for SNES.

I've gotten my WoB route pretty much done, nothing too special, It's mostly about what epsers to give everyone and when so that I have most of the spells I'll need by the end of the game, I think I'll spend a few minutes fighting cactrots and hoovers once I get to the WoR.  I don't think I'm using any new tricks or strats to get through the game, just lots of joker doom and M.block.
I haven't finalized my WoR route yet, I have about half of it planned out so far, I just need to do some testing to see what order works best for me.

A big part of the route planning is RNG protection, that is, making sure I don't get annihilated if a boss does an attack that could wipe out my party before I can get a turn in.  This really isn't a big deal, because most of the time you can make sure that at least someone survives in any given battle by giving them the right shield or enough M.block.

So far, I've only timed myself up to the opera house (where I got slaughtered by ultros T_T), so I've been practicing all of the tricky parts before timing myself again; avoiding the guards in the Narshe battles, beating Dadaluma before he can use potions, running from Ifrit/Shiva, and countless joker dooms of course!

Also, this thread has been invaluable in learning new tricks and routes, and following the evolution of this run from page 1 has really helped me understand a lot of the "how" and "Why" about running this game.

BTW:  This is the first game I've ever tried to speedrun and any advice is more than welcome.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2013-02-27 02:54:20 pm

2013-02-27 02:48:52 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

That's great, bangagong! I'm currently practicing 100% for the upcoming Crystals for Life marathon (100% is going to be a donation incentive), and I also did 100% for the past SGDQ (video is here). However, the route I use is definitely a marathon route, and probably wouldn't be ideal for SS.

I've attached a copy of my 100% notes to this post, if you want to take a look. The main thing you would want to change from my run is when you fight Storm Dragon; I fight him as early as possible so I could show off more of the Magitek glitch, but I'm dead if he uses Rage on his first turn. It's not a big deal in a marathon setting since I can save right before fighting him, but you wouldn't want to take that chance in a SS run. You'll have to find some way to survive Rage; I remember Nitrodon had an idea about boosting Celes's magic defense high enough to survive it, but right now I can't remember what the equipment setup was for that.

Edit: The other thing to consider is when to fight Doom Gaze. The best case would be to run into him while you're doing other things, but there's no guarantee that will happen. In my marathon route, I force a fight with him not long after getting the Falcon (just after fighting in the Maranda desert) so that I can guarantee my characters won't be on a level that's a multiple of 5. The other option is to do everything else except Kefka's Tower, and if you haven't run into him by then, then force a fight. That way is riskier, though, because you can't know for sure what level your characters will be on whenever you happen to find him.

That's great, bangagong! I'm currently practicing 100% for the upcoming Crystals for Life marathon (100% is going to be a donation incentive), and I also did 100% for the past SGDQ (video is [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmTKpi7qJBg]here[/url]). However, the route I use is definitely a marathon route, and probably wouldn't be ideal for SS.

I've attached a copy of my 100% notes to this post, if you want to take a look. The main thing you would want to change from my run is when you fight Storm Dragon; I fight him as early as possible so I could show off more of the Magitek glitch, but I'm dead if he uses Rage on his first turn. It's not a big deal in a marathon setting since I can save right before fighting him, but you wouldn't want to take that chance in a SS run. You'll have to find some way to survive Rage; I remember Nitrodon had an idea about boosting Celes's magic defense high enough to survive it, but right now I can't remember what the equipment setup was for that.

Edit: The other thing to consider is when to fight Doom Gaze. The best case would be to run into him while you're doing other things, but there's no guarantee that will happen. In my marathon route, I force a fight with him not long after getting the Falcon (just after fighting in the Maranda desert) so that I can guarantee my characters won't be on a level that's a multiple of 5. The other option is to do everything else except Kefka's Tower, and if you haven't run into him by then, then force a fight. That way is riskier, though, because you can't know for sure what level your characters will be on whenever you happen to find him.

Attachment:

FF6 100 notes.txt

Nitrodon

2013-02-28 11:09:54 am

To expand on what Essentia said, there's some piece of Genji equipment on the way to Gogo, and that really helps your (physical and) magic defense. As such, in a run that doesn't have a goal of "show off as much Magitek as possible", you should probably get Gogo before Cyan to survive Rage. Celes's other equipment really doesn't matter too much, as long as it's decent.

As for Doom Gaze, I've been considering making a program to find him (much like my auction manipulation spreadsheet). The main reasons I didn't do that before SGDQ are the difficulty of interpreting output and the fact that you only lose a bounded amount of time searching for him, which made it a lower priority.

bangagong

2013-03-03 05:39:40 pm

I hadn't really planned on Rage, good advice about the genji armor, I'm going to see how it goes if I get Terra before then too, I think she'll still be a few levels above everyone else. I was planning of fighting doomgaze as soon as I was done in the Maranda desert, but he's such a big time variable, I think I'm going to try and get lucky and find him somewhere in transit, I'll just have to keep a closer eye on everyone's levels. I learned a lot about how doomgaze works from watching videos and reading through this thread, and I've done a lot of practice on an emulator to test his locations, and since he has more than one encounter spot I'm hoping to average a few minutes at most to finding him.
Nitrodon, I love your auction house spreadsheet, it is so helpful; if you're still considering some way to find doomgaze faster that would also be invaluable as well.
Thanks for the notes Essentia, the MP guide at the bottom was awesome, really helps me wrap my head around good esper management.
I have also realized how much endurance it takes play a game for that long in a single sitting, it's easy to practice certain parts, but it's very challenging to put it all together in one sitting.
I definitely need to do some practice on kefka's tower, then I think I'll be ready for a semi-serious run from start to finish. I'll give it some more practice this week as I have time, and maybe see if I have time to try a full run.

I hadn't really planned on Rage, good advice about the genji armor, I'm going to see how it goes if I get Terra before then too, I think she'll still be a few levels above everyone else.  I was planning of fighting doomgaze as soon as I was done in the Maranda desert, but he's such a big time variable, I think I'm going to try and get lucky and find him somewhere in transit, I'll just have to keep a closer eye on everyone's levels.  I learned a lot about how doomgaze works from watching videos and reading through this thread, and I've done a lot of practice on an emulator to test his locations, and since he has more than one encounter spot I'm hoping to average a few minutes at most to finding him.
Nitrodon, I love your auction house spreadsheet, it is so helpful; if you're still considering some way to find doomgaze faster that would also be invaluable as well.
Thanks for the notes Essentia, the MP guide at the bottom was awesome, really helps me wrap my head around good esper management.
I have also realized how much endurance it takes play a game for that long in a single sitting, it's easy to practice certain parts, but it's very challenging to put it all together in one sitting.
I definitely need to do some practice on kefka's tower, then I think I'll be ready for a semi-serious run from start to finish.  I'll give it some more practice this week as I have time, and maybe see if I have time to try a full run.

RaneofSOTN

2013-03-04 10:43:32 am

I want off the ride....

just wanna say, that essentia's notes are really good for her, and decently good for other people. Your mileage may vary with ideas and processes. I state this having done a speed run off her notes (not ss but in parts) so i could practice each bit (mostly Joker Doom). And i have to say that it is honestly a task to do these things.

I have serious respect to Essentia for actually pulling off JD and RJD consistantly. Doing the final boss sequence got my RJD/slots skills up. But i'm still iffy.

As an idea, should we experiment with getting Essentia's notes on the KB with some more stuff behind it? I mean i think i asked her why so many times.

Also, i think running shoes on GOGO for the final boss is a thing. also Double calmness sucks.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2013-03-04 06:06:56 pm

2013-03-04 06:06:10 pm

Weegee Time

Quote from RaneofSOTN:

As an idea, should we experiment with getting Essentia's notes on the KB with some more stuff behind it? I mean i think i asked her why so many times.

I think once the format is finalized, FF6 would be a great example of an RPG run for the wiki. Lots of bugs and manipulations and routing which can then be used as a pattern for more RPGs down the line.

AlecK47

2013-03-04 08:37:43 pm

Yeah, I'm thinking of doing some work on that for FFXII after CFL, and given that I have absolutely no experience in making wikis, FAQ's or the like, it would be nice to see what an RPG KB entry would look like. I could help here too, but honestly, given how much Essentia, Nitrodon and others know about this game, I may very well be relegated to grammar and spelling corrections.

Essentia

2013-03-25 09:54:09 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

A lot of people have recently been asking for my FF6 run notes, so I decided to post them here. I should point out that, as Rane said, they're mainly written for me and probably leave a bunch of things out. On that note, I would love to help out with the FF6 wiki page once the KB templates are completed.

Note: I made some changes and corrections to my 100% notes, so I've re-uploaded them here.

Attachments:

FF6 100% notes.txt

FF6 any% notes.txt

gnuvince

2013-04-09 09:32:52 pm

Thanks to Essentia's notes, MisterMv's notes, and my own notes (taken from watching their runs ;-)) I have created a complete (and *long*) guide to FF6 any%: https://github.com/gnuvince/ff6-speedrun-guide. This guide is complete, but unfinished; look at the README file to see what else I want to do with it. I hope that people find it useful, and be sure to give me some feed back.

Essentia

2013-04-10 05:29:00 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Great job, gnuvince. I've been reading through it, and I'll give more feedback later, but there were a few things I wanted to note about the Techniques section at the end.

Joker Doom: If you mess up Joker Doom, there actually is a way to set up the RNG so you can try it again. You must do the following (in any order):
-use another echo screen
-use a tonic/potion/antidote/fenix down
-use slots once (doesn't matter what you get - I usually hold down A to get Lagomorph)
After you've done those three things, the RNG is set up so you can get 7-7-7.

Reverse Joker Doom: The Remedy item doesn't cure Muddle; you have to use the Remedy spell to cure it. Also, I just wanted to note that you don't necessarily have to input 7-7-bar during the Muddle spell animation, but the timing for it usually works out that way. For example, I usually have running shoes on Setzer for the final battle, but he needs to act last (otherwise you'll joker doom your own party); waiting to input 7-7-bar during the muddle animation ensures that he'll go last. If Setzer doesn't have running shoes, you might be able to start inputting 7-7-bar earlier, although I haven't really tested.

One other thing I've noticed in the guide is that some of the boss strategies could use more clarification. For example on Whelk, it says to attack 4 times before it goes into its shell then one more attack after it comes out; what you really want is for Terra to attack twice and Vicks and Wedge to each attack once before it goes into its shell, and then have Terra deal the finishing attack after it comes out.

Great job, gnuvince. I've been reading through it, and I'll give more feedback later, but there were a few things I wanted to note about the Techniques section at the end.

Joker Doom: If you mess up Joker Doom, there actually is a way to set up the RNG so you can try it again. You must do the following (in any order):
-use another echo screen
-use a tonic/potion/antidote/fenix down
-use slots once (doesn't matter what you get - I usually hold down A to get Lagomorph)
After you've done those three things, the RNG is set up so you can get 7-7-7.

Reverse Joker Doom: The Remedy item doesn't cure Muddle; you have to use the Remedy spell to cure it. Also, I just wanted to note that you don't necessarily have to input 7-7-bar during the Muddle spell animation, but the timing for it usually works out that way. For example, I usually have running shoes on Setzer for the final battle, but he needs to act last (otherwise you'll joker doom your own party); waiting to input 7-7-bar during the muddle animation ensures that he'll go last. If Setzer doesn't have running shoes, you [i]might[/i] be able to start inputting 7-7-bar earlier, although I haven't really tested.

One other thing I've noticed in the guide is that some of the boss strategies could use more clarification. For example on Whelk, it says to attack 4 times before it goes into its shell then one more attack after it comes out; what you really want is for Terra to attack twice and Vicks and Wedge to each attack once before it goes into its shell, and then have Terra deal the finishing attack after it comes out.

FFgamer86

2013-04-10 06:18:20 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

I want to learn this game eventually. This should help a lot
.

gnuvince

2013-04-10 06:34:30 pm

Essentia: thanks for the feedback, I've updated the guide to reflect your comments. I have a question for you; the Kaiser we buy for Sabin in Jidoor, why do we not equip it right away? I was wondering if we couldn't delay the party management bit before leaving Zozo, go to Jidoor, buy the Kaiser, do the management there and have a better weapon equipped on Sabin?

FFgamer86: that's why I wrote it Smiley