Final Fantasy V - Complete and posted!

darkwasabi

2006-03-28 06:40:03 pm

King of hearts

Doesn't look like this game is low on verifiers, so I highly doubt it will take much more than a month for it to be up.

Aresake

2006-03-28 09:22:55 pm

Glowy eyes of DOOM!

Heh, I hope you're right. But don't forget that Nate has to capture the run first, which could take awhile since it has so many segments. Props to him for doing that, by the way.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2006-05-10 07:03:41 pm

2006-05-10 06:36:48 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Congratulations! This is what makes the entire process worth it. Wink

I think it's also safe to say that people who haven't played the game won't know how impressive this is. I'm downloading right now. I'll read your comments, watch, and then maybe have something to say.

Edit: Well, I read the comments at least. About the segments, yes, that's exactly what I figured for FF2. (And time attack folk, who don't have to worry about watchability, probably did that.) And say for a TAS, you would want to power cycle since that's faster than running from an encounter.

However, and this was probably unfair for you to try to implement since I only found out about this recently, but FF5 overworld works differently from at least the other FF SNES games. Without having to save and make too many segments, you can still skip all the overworld fights. Going into the menu resets the step counter, but only on the overworld.

I'm skipping the detailed segment comments for now because I want to be surprised while watching. Wink

Double edit: Actually, I read segment 1's because it's general and it was right there. I always thought the reason you used battle speed 6 in FF5/6 was because it was a bug that it affected the enemies but not you. (Which is nice because it became an unintentional difficulty setting.) Anyway, if you wrap your head around the logic behind that, is that identical to what you said in the comments?

Also, I have to commend you for being the first SDA example I can think of where you picked a one character name in order to speed up the text advance. There goes my simple litmus test to explain console speedrun/TAS differences in ethos. Most people just pimp themselves and put their own name in there. =p

Speaking of text advance, I know you were slightly behind the Japanese PS1 version, but given language differences in text advance, do you think you'd actually be slightly ahead for all intents and purposes? I think so, but I haven't seen that version so I can't really make any judgment.

Triple edit heh: I just remembered you fought Neo-Exdeath. So what I said above is assuming you didn't. Don't feel like you have to redo anything, but you can if you want (and I would skip, it's not like Murder Beam or anything). Basically, it's up to you, not us.

Congratulations! This is what makes the entire process worth it. ;)

I think it's also safe to say that people who haven't played the game won't know how impressive this is. I'm downloading right now. I'll read your comments, watch, and then maybe have something to say.

Edit: Well, I read the comments at least. About the segments, yes, that's exactly what I figured for FF2. (And time attack folk, who don't have to worry about watchability, probably did that.) And say for a TAS, you would want to power cycle since that's faster than running from an encounter.

However, and this was probably unfair for you to try to implement since I only found out about this recently, but FF5 overworld works differently from at least the other FF SNES games. [i]Without having to save and make too many segments, you can still skip all the overworld fights.[/i] Going into the menu resets the step counter, but only on the overworld.

I'm skipping the detailed segment comments for now because I want to be surprised while watching. ;)

Double edit: Actually, I read segment 1's because it's general and it was right there. I always thought the reason you used battle speed 6 in FF5/6 was because it was a bug that it affected the enemies but not you. (Which is nice because it became an unintentional difficulty setting.) Anyway, if you wrap your head around the logic behind that, is that identical to what you said in the comments?

Also, I have to commend you for being the first SDA example I can think of where you picked a one character name in order to speed up the text advance. There goes my simple litmus test to explain console speedrun/TAS differences in ethos. Most people just pimp themselves and put their own name in there. =p

Speaking of text advance, I know you were slightly behind the Japanese PS1 version, but given language differences in text advance, do you think you'd actually be slightly ahead for all intents and purposes? I think so, but I haven't seen that version so I can't really make any judgment.

Triple edit heh: I just remembered you fought Neo-Exdeath. So what I said above is assuming you didn't. Don't feel like you have to redo anything, but you can if you want (and I would skip, it's not like Murder Beam or anything). Basically, it's up to you, not us.

Bp_

2006-05-10 07:15:18 pm

gj of doing this, I can't wait to see it.
I got it on my computer, just need to get back home and watch it =]

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-10 07:41:04 pm

2006-05-10 07:39:53 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Quote:

Also, I have to commend you for being the first SDA example I can think of where you picked a one character name in order to speed up the text advance. There goes my simple litmus test to explain console speedrun/TAS differences in ethos. Most people just pimp themselves and put their own name in there. =p

based on the results of the "speedruns on tv" thread, it's not just people buffing their egos. when you walk around and everybody says "TSA WATCH OUT FOR THE BIG DRAGON" or something, your name there proves that you did it. or that some idiot did it with your name, in which case he'd have a hard time proving it was his, haha.

Quote:

Speaking of text advance, I know you were slightly behind the Japanese PS1 version, but given language differences in text advance, do you think you'd actually be slightly ahead for all intents and purposes? I think so, but I haven't seen that version so I can't really make any judgment.

on the news page, radix says that the game doesn't count time doing...something (presumably story scenes, though this was apparently not determined). so, the ultimagarden time is probably a little faster still.

[quote]Also, I have to commend you for being the first SDA example I can think of where you picked a one character name in order to speed up the text advance. There goes my simple litmus test to explain console speedrun/TAS differences in ethos. Most people just pimp themselves and put their own name in there. =p[/quote]
based on the results of the "speedruns on tv" thread, it's not just people buffing their egos.   when you walk around and everybody says "TSA WATCH OUT FOR THE BIG DRAGON" or something, your name there proves that you did it.  or that some idiot did it with your name, in which case he'd have a hard time proving it was his, haha.
[quote]Speaking of text advance, I know you were slightly behind the Japanese PS1 version, but given language differences in text advance, do you think you'd actually be slightly ahead for all intents and purposes? I think so, but I haven't seen that version so I can't really make any judgment.[/quote]
on the news page, radix says that the game doesn't count time doing...something (presumably story scenes, though this was apparently not determined).  so, the ultimagarden time is probably a little faster still.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2006-05-10 07:52:34 pm

2006-05-10 07:50:39 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

based on the results of the "speedruns on tv" thread, it's not just people buffing their egos. when you walk around and everybody says "TSA WATCH OUT FOR THE BIG DRAGON" or something, your name there proves that you did it. or that some idiot did it with your name, in which case he'd have a hard time proving it was his, haha.

Well I didn't say it was all about ego. It's obviously what you said, about credit.

Quote:

on the news page, radix says that the game doesn't count time doing...something (presumably story scenes, though this was apparently not determined). so, the ultimagarden time is probably a little faster still.

The time that's listed (3:26) is the game timer + final segment real-time. Also, aresake listed his final save time. We are going by that for both, so it's a fair comparison.

Edit: Actually if you care, IIRC they got the same final save time, but at different save points FWIW.

spineshark

2006-05-10 07:58:19 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

ahh, okay, because when i checked the other thread i was rather confused about what it was exactly saying =/

Aresake

Edit history:

Aresake: 2006-05-11 06:28:36 am

2006-05-11 12:15:27 am

Glowy eyes of DOOM!

Hmm. I guess I never bothered to figure what precisely which parts the game timer doesn't count. It's pretty important to know that for a speed run! But, I know that it counts time walking around, in battle, in the menu screens (but probably not the Playstation-specific Save screen) and most of the cut-scenes as well. Although I have no proof of this, I would bet that loading times -- for getting into/out of battles, into/out of the menu screen, and loading/saving the game to the memory card -- are not counted. I'm not sure if Radix's real-time counter included load/save times or not, but if it did, I can see how such a wide discrepancy arose. The load time for battles is quite significant (and annoying) in the Playstation version.

Red_Scarlet

2006-05-11 03:02:27 am

"I like to watch"

Have you ever heard of the Drain bug? I never had, and I saw this video last night of a Level 1 Kururu beating Neo X-Death (maybe only the first form is all you fight?), Omega, and Shinryuu with it.

From the looks of it, they are selecting to mix Holy Water, then cancels out, then uses Sword Magic Drain and casts a random spell. Afterward, a Holy Water and Maiden's Kiss are mixed to berserk the enemy, and due to the Sword Magic Drain, it causes the target to heal Kururu with her attacks..pretty interesting, but I have no idea if it works in the PS version or even why it works in the Super Famicom one.

If in fact that DOES skip the 2nd battle with Neo X-Death, there's some time saved.

If you'd like, I can test this on my Super Famicom cartridge and make a video of it if it works and you are interested.

I watched your run awhile ago, and thought you embarassed the game usually known for being pretty difficult. I had no idea that Level 5 Death was so powerful. Do you use Level 2 Old to make the bosses more susceptible to spells?

Have you ever heard of the Drain bug? I never had, and I saw this video last night of a Level 1 Kururu beating Neo X-Death (maybe only the first form is all you fight?), Omega, and Shinryuu with it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sbxm6is9uEc&search=%E3%82%B9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%91%E3%83%BC%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3

From the looks of it, they are selecting to mix Holy Water, then cancels out, then uses Sword Magic Drain and casts a random spell.  Afterward, a Holy Water and Maiden's Kiss are mixed to berserk the enemy, and due to the Sword Magic Drain, it causes the target to heal Kururu with her attacks..pretty interesting, but I have no idea if it works in the PS version or even why it works in the Super Famicom one.

If in fact that DOES skip the 2nd battle with Neo X-Death, there's some time saved.

If you'd like, I can test this on my Super Famicom cartridge and make a video of it if it works and you are interested.

I watched your run awhile ago, and thought you embarassed the game usually known for being pretty difficult.  I had no idea that Level 5 Death was so powerful.  Do you use Level 2 Old to make the bosses more susceptible to spells?

Aresake

Edit history:

Aresake: 2006-05-11 06:24:20 am

2006-05-11 05:09:25 am

Glowy eyes of DOOM!

Quote:

Have you ever heard of the Drain bug?

No, that one sounds pretty weird to me. They must have somehow used magic sword to give the boss "drain" attacks, which have reversed polarity against undead or bonemail-wearing targets. I thought it was impossible to target magic sword on anyone but yourself though . . . very strange. Actually though, I doubt this trick would even help me, because the knight lockout -- which I used -- has the same effect of nullifying boss damage. You'll also notice that my L5 doom strategy is about the same speed, even though I did a couple actions that were specific to the upcoming Neo battle.

I did know about skipping Neo-Exdeath though. It says so at the end of my comments, although perhaps I should have written it in the first few paragraphs. At the time, I figured it was analogous to the murder beam glitch and that both versions could be hosted simultaneously. I also wrote that it would be "lame and anticlimactic," which were my sentiments when I created the run, but to be honest, my views have changed a little since then.

For one thing, according to the definition most people seem to use on this site, skipping Neo is not a glitch. The designers intentionally made blessed kiss bypass berserk immunity (for reasons I can't really fathom), which had the unintended consequence of enabling the player to prevent certain key scripts from being executed.

As for "lame and anticlimactic," that's only really true if you're expecting the speedrun to be faithful to the game's plot or something, which isn't a concern here at SDA. I would use the bug/oversight/whatever-you-wanna-call-it if I were to run the game again.

Fortunately, my Neo battle doesn't take too long; it's not as though someone could do a total crap run on the game and beat mine just because they used the bug. But it certainly would be the biggest place for improvement.

Quote:

Going into the menu resets the step counter, but only on the overworld.

Didn't know that either! That could save a minute or two, because entering the menu doesn't take as long as it appears to (if I'm right about the load time). On the other hand, running away from a battle likewise doesn't take as long as it appears to, but still more time than entering the menu, surely. You can still get an unlucky battle after only a few steps, though, so it would add even more luck to the run.

EDIT: One more thing. Scarlet, for the answer to your question about L2 old, read my comments for segment 19.

[quote]Have you ever heard of the Drain bug? [/quote]
No, that one sounds pretty weird to me.  They must have somehow used magic sword to give the boss "drain" attacks, which have reversed polarity against undead or bonemail-wearing targets. I thought it was impossible to target magic sword on anyone but yourself though . . . very strange.  Actually though, I doubt this trick would even help me, because the knight lockout -- which I used -- has the same effect of nullifying boss damage.  You'll also notice that my L5 doom strategy is about the same speed, even though I did a couple actions that were specific to the upcoming Neo battle.

I did know about skipping Neo-Exdeath though.  It says so at the end of my comments, although perhaps I should have written it in the first few paragraphs.  At the time, I figured it was analogous to the murder beam glitch and that both versions could be hosted simultaneously.  I also wrote that it would be "lame and anticlimactic," which were my sentiments when I created the run, but to be honest, my views have changed a little since then.

For one thing, according to the definition most people seem to use on this site, skipping Neo is not a glitch.  The designers intentionally made blessed kiss bypass berserk immunity (for reasons I can't really fathom), which had the unintended consequence of enabling the player to prevent certain key scripts from being executed.

As for "lame and anticlimactic," that's only really true if you're expecting the speedrun to be faithful to the game's plot or something, which isn't a concern here at SDA.  I would use the bug/oversight/whatever-you-wanna-call-it if I were to run the game again.

Fortunately, my Neo battle doesn't take too long; it's not as though someone could do a total crap run on the game and beat mine just because they used the bug.  But it certainly would be the biggest place for improvement.

[quote] Going into the menu resets the step counter, but only on the overworld.
[/quote]
Didn't know that either!  That could save a minute or two, because entering the menu doesn't take as long as it appears to (if I'm right about the load time).  On the other hand, running away from a battle likewise doesn't take as long as it appears to, but still more time than entering the menu, surely.  You can still get an unlucky battle after only a few steps, though, so it would add [i]even more[/i] luck to the run.

EDIT: One more thing.  Scarlet, for the answer to your question about L2 old, read my comments for segment 19.

Red_Scarlet

2006-05-11 06:36:27 am

"I like to watch"

Ohhhh..interesting. Very informative comments!
Thanks.

Enhasa

2006-05-11 09:27:42 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I'm gonna take on this monstrosity over the weekend. It is over 5 hours real time I guess.

Quote:

On the other hand, running away from a battle likewise doesn't take as long as it appears to, but still more time than entering the menu, surely.

Hmm, I'm completely used to the SFC version myself. I think this lag would really get on my nerves. Running away from a fight as fast as you can still takes 15 seconds though. That seems like an awful lot to me. Going in and out of menu is about 5 seconds I think.

Oh and about skipping Neo, not like you aren't breaking the rest of this game to hell anyway. Wink

Aresake

2006-05-11 11:00:40 am

Glowy eyes of DOOM!

Quote:

I'm gonna take on this monstrosity over the weekend. It is over 5 hours real time I guess.

Um, does "take it on" mean you're going to watch it, or try to beat it? Because if you're going to try to beat it, it will require much more than 5 hours unless some higher power decides to grant you perfect luck on every attempt!

tmont

2006-05-11 11:08:40 am

Not going to school today

I've only watched the first four segments, but I like what I'm seeing so far. This is probably my favorite RPG; one of the saves on my game has a party where each member has mastered every job (even the Mimic, or whatever it's called)! Needless to say, I used to play this quite a bit. This is a lot of fun to watch. Good job. Smiley

Lag.Com

2006-05-11 12:03:21 pm

sda loyalist

I watched this yesterday, it's fantastic. Watching you wait a specific amount of time after L2. Old before L5. Dooming them was priceless! I also loved how you slaughtered Galura and Liquiflame, those were hard bosses when I played...

Man, the monster name translation on that version is rubbish. 'Drgn Great'?

That loading time really started to annoy me though; the SNES ROM is 2MB... surely the entire thing could be loaded into RAM or something, then run a SNES emulator. Wink

Sir VG

2006-05-11 12:17:01 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

It would certainly run better. Square butchered the FF4-6 PS remakes (1 and 2 were done nearly perfect).

FFV was never one of my favorites, but damn you make for an anti-climatic final boss fight. You did some big segment than walked into it and I'm going "IS HE INSANE?" Then you beat X-Death and I'm going like haha! ^^;;

Red_Scarlet

2006-05-11 12:21:30 pm

"I like to watch"

How does the timing work for levels lowering with Lv 2 Old? Is it like every 5 seconds or so?

Aresake

Edit history:

Aresake: 2006-05-11 08:45:36 pm

2006-05-11 07:58:19 pm

Glowy eyes of DOOM!

Quote:

How does the timing work for levels lowering with Lv 2 Old? Is it like every 5 seconds or so?

Oh no, it's much faster than that. If you watch the battles carefully, you'll notice that (when no animation is currently happening) the characters' bars advance in "ticks" rather than continuosly, the ticks being spaced about 3/sec or so. Somewhere along the line I discovered that not even pressing the button during the correct tick is good enough for it to always work; you need about 1/2-tick accuracy to get it consistently.

That said, I still don't know how fast the levels are actually lost, but it appears to be about 1/tick or so.

I agree with Sir_VG: this remake is terrible. I'm playing it only because it's in English and not on an emulator. If you think you're annoyed with the load times, imagine my suffering after recording each of these segments a dozen or more times! Also, the "official" translation was very poor compared to some of the emulator versions which were done by average-Joe type people in their spare time. Here's a comparsion of what Neo-Exdeath says. To me, the first version sounds actually threatening and the second sounds like Yoda-speak.

Emulator version:

I am Neo-Exdeath!
I shall erase all memory. . .
All existence. . . all dimensions. . .
And then I too shall disappear. . .
For eternity!!!

Playstation remake:

I. . . . AM. . . NEO X-DEATH!
Your memories, your beings
all dimensions, I erase!
Then I'll erase myself. . .
. . forever!!

Tsk tsk. Just because Japanese puts its verbs at the end of the sentence doesn't mean you have to translate it that way! Not to mention numerous other differences that just kill the effect.

[quote]How does the timing work for levels lowering with Lv 2 Old?  Is it like every 5 seconds or so?[/quote]
Oh no, it's much faster than that.  If you watch the battles carefully, you'll notice that (when no animation is currently happening) the characters' bars advance in "ticks" rather than continuosly, the ticks being spaced about 3/sec or so.  Somewhere along the line I discovered that not even pressing the button during the correct tick is good enough for it to always work; you need about 1/2-tick accuracy to get it consistently.

That said, I still don't know how fast the levels are actually lost, but it appears to be about 1/tick or so.

I agree with Sir_VG: this remake is terrible.  I'm playing it only because it's in English and not on an emulator.  If you think [i]you're[/i] annoyed with the load times, imagine [i]my[/i] suffering after recording each of these segments a dozen or more times!  Also, the "official" translation was very poor compared to some of the emulator versions which were done by average-Joe type people in their spare time. Here's a comparsion of what Neo-Exdeath says.  To me, the first version sounds actually threatening and the second sounds like Yoda-speak.

Emulator version:

I am Neo-Exdeath!
I shall erase all memory. . .
All existence. . . all dimensions. . .
And then I too shall disappear. . .
For eternity!!!

Playstation remake:

I. . . . AM. . . NEO X-DEATH!
Your memories, your beings
all dimensions, I erase!
Then I'll erase myself. . . 
. . forever!!

Tsk tsk. Just  because Japanese puts its verbs at the end of the sentence doesn't mean you have to translate it that way! Not to mention numerous other differences that just kill the effect.

nate

2006-05-11 09:00:54 pm

it does if you're a lazy ass son of a bitch.

getter77

2006-05-11 09:34:18 pm

100% runs=great to watch

All I know is....that was a finely done run. Laughed my ass off during several parts. Congrats and thanks!

darkwasabi

2006-05-11 09:56:56 pm

King of hearts

Y Burn... LOL

Red_Scarlet

2006-05-12 01:18:16 am

"I like to watch"

Quote:

Y Burn... LOL

Haha, that's the one I was trying to think of.

Aresake

Edit history:

Aresake: 2006-05-12 04:32:41 am

2006-05-12 04:22:19 am

Glowy eyes of DOOM!

Yeah, I don't know if "Y burn" (rather than "wyvern"), "soccer" (rather than "sucker"), "Karl boss" (rather than "Karlabos"), "stonedmask" (rather than "stonemask") and so forth are Square's attempts to make the monster names more cutesy, or if they're just poor translations. In either case, I don't approve. Angry

Some of them just make me go WTF, like "shell bear" (rather than "jail bear"). I did appreciate the humor in "adamngolem" (rather than "adamagolem," short for "adamantium golem") though.

tmont

2006-05-12 05:22:06 am

Not going to school today

Segment 25 of the LQ version has a reset 45 seconds into it. I'm assuming that's not intentional...?

Red_Scarlet

Edit history:

Red_Scarlet: 2006-05-12 05:30:10 am

2006-05-12 05:29:13 am

"I like to watch"

No. Guess Nate never took it out when Trebor and I were watching it and told him. :-/

Nate says the file is fixed from archive.org, but the torrent can't be fixed (unless it were re-made probably).