Final Fantasy Legend 2

2011-04-19 07:01:43 pm

Reading the Final Fantasy Legend single-segment topic got me thinking about this game that I played way too much back in the day. I wonder how quickly this one could be done? I figure a team of robots and monsters could cruise through the game pretty quickly.

I have the game itself but haven't had a working Game Boy in years. I do have the Super Game Boy for the SNES that allows you to play Game Boy games, I guess I could use that instead.

Thread title:

scaryice

2011-04-19 07:12:17 pm

Plenty of glitching potential with a run of this game.

Poxnor

2011-04-19 07:54:16 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Looking at GameFAQs, it looks like the meat transformation mechanic is far more robust in FFL2, in terms of not yielding high-level monsters from low-level meat. That's a shame, since it was so abusable in FFL.

chessjerk

2011-04-19 08:02:05 pm

My thought there was to start with two Robots and two Baby-D's. The Baby-D's can eat WereRat meat in Ashura's World to turn into Sprites. Sprites are so grossly overpowered at that point that they can carry the team for the next three or four worlds until good agility weapons show up for the Robots (i.e. Laser Swords).

Of course, I haven't even begun to think about trying to use glitches. I looked at the TAS, but it looks like it won't be any help since it uses Japanese-only version glitches.

Poxnor

2011-04-19 08:09:50 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Admittedly, I haven't given much thought to running FFL2, so this is totally off the top of my head: would a mutant help, for the ability to do the dragon+teleport out-of-bounds glitch?

scaryice

2011-04-19 08:16:19 pm

Yeah, you probably will need a mutant just for that.

And don't forget the trash can bug.

Poxnor

2011-04-20 01:17:22 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Can anyone explain the Poison glitch used in the TASvideos FFL2 run? It results in an insane monster transformation, but I can't make heads nor tails of the description of the glitch.

ShinerCCC

2011-04-20 02:33:39 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Sprites are powerful, yes, but I came up with a half-ass route this summer.

A Baby-D can eat the Rhino meat (found in Ashura's base in World 1) to turn into a Raven. Raven can eat Raven to become a Medusa. Early bosses have no immunity to StonGaze so you can one-shot any boss up to Venus with some luck.

I find the dragon warp is useful for skipping a lot of stuff, however I read that faster movespeed dragons have a higher encounter rate and I would definitely say that's true. I also find the fastest dragon to be really hard to control. I think the second fastest is a good trade-off but the uber high encounter rate is very annoying. Maybe the third one is a better tradeoff.

With the dragon warp, IIRC you can go straight from the Dragon Race to going down the elevator the credits use to return to the surface to go straight to Arsenal. From there it's a matter of finding the bare minimum requirements to handle that fight. Note that you can go get whatever NPC you want in your team to help you, but there are some stiipulations:

- Taro doesn't join you for some time in Edo
- To get Dad to join you, have to talk to Apollo in Final World, whereupon he will take all your MAGI, plus you have to fight Minion
- You have to beat Apollo in the temple to get Isis on your team, but even if you do, she won't help you fight Arsenal...pointless

The trashcan bug could be very helpful for pumping Str and Agi to the max, but you have to reach 69 MAGI to get the near-unlimited potions, which pretty much necessitates fighting Odin, which is hard. Gear from Nasty Dungeon is almost certainly required for that, it's pretty hard, at least when I tried it. Overall I think the best team would be 1 Monster, 2 Mutants and a Robot (Tank spam ftw). FatRatKnight broke down the trashcun bug a little bit: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/585710-final-fantasy-legend-ii/55663025

Sprites are powerful, yes, but I came up with a half-ass route this summer.

A Baby-D can eat the Rhino meat (found in Ashura's base in World 1) to turn into a Raven. Raven can eat Raven to become a Medusa. Early bosses have no immunity to StonGaze so you can one-shot any boss up to Venus with some luck.

I find the dragon warp is useful for skipping a lot of stuff, however I read that faster movespeed dragons have a higher encounter rate and I would definitely say that's true. I also find the fastest dragon to be really hard to control. I think the second fastest is a good trade-off but the uber high encounter rate is very annoying. Maybe the third one is a better tradeoff.

With the dragon warp, IIRC you can go straight from the Dragon Race to going down the elevator the credits use to return to the surface to go straight to Arsenal. From there it's a matter of finding the bare minimum requirements to handle that fight. Note that you can go get whatever NPC you want in your team to help you, but there are some stiipulations:

- Taro doesn't join you for some time in Edo
- To get Dad to join you, have to talk to Apollo in Final World, whereupon he will take all your MAGI, plus you have to fight Minion
- You have to beat Apollo in the temple to get Isis on your team, but even if you do, she won't help you fight Arsenal...pointless

The trashcan bug could be very helpful for pumping Str and Agi to the max, but you have to reach 69 MAGI to get the near-unlimited potions, which pretty much necessitates fighting Odin, which is hard. Gear from Nasty Dungeon is almost certainly required for that, it's pretty hard, at least when I tried it. Overall I think the best team would be 1 Monster, 2 Mutants and a Robot (Tank spam ftw). FatRatKnight broke down the trashcun bug a little bit: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/585710-final-fantasy-legend-ii/55663025

nitwit

2011-04-20 02:59:21 am

1:58:53 RTA by めでぃ:

http://replay.web.archive.org/20090410093314/http://medy.hp.infoseek.co.jp/op/SaGa2_RTA.html

The party was four female mutants I think; however, it was very much an rta and not a single-segment run as the runner used soft resets to avoid battles. No glitches were used.

cheap's site:

http://www.ric.hi-ho.ne.jp/cheap_restaurant/GAME/SAGA2/index.html

cheap holds the TA record for FFL2 on ultimagarden.

chessjerk

2011-04-20 08:42:48 am

Here's the results of my quick run-through last night (without glitches):

Party - 2 robots, 2 Baby-D's

First World:
Kill everything in first world since running is not guaranteed, skip treasure until Ashura Base for selling

Ashura World:
Get WereRat meat twice, turn Baby-D's into Sprites
Sell everything, buy two Sabres for Speed Magi robot
Run through tower, escape from single enemy battles, use a quick Thunder on large groups for big GP gains
Ashura falls in two rounds to a triple-Sabre wielding robot and Mask's Hammer

NOTE: Running in random battles from this point until the final stretch of battles seems to be 100%

Giant World/Ki's Body:
Thunder large groups of Terorist, hope for drops to sell
Thunder large groups in Ki's body, run from the rest

Apollo World:
Dunatis falls in one round, sell everything in town, buy two Laser swords for Speed robot
Same story for volcano and bright cave (Thunder large groups for GP, run from everything else)

Guardian World/Monster World:
Very easy, more of the same

Venus World:
One Sprite can eat Thunder meat, then Hermit meat to become Fairy (2nd tier Sprite)
More of the same after that
Venus dies in three or four turns of Laser Sword whacking while the Sprite and Fairy keep her asleep

Race World:
Sell everything, buy Dragon Armors for robots (maybe skip this?)
Buy fastest dragon (duh, SPEED RUN)
Sprite can eat Lamia meat, then Watcher meat to become Nymph (3rd tier Sprite)

Edo:
Buy two Catclaws for Speed robot, now it does over 1600 damage to normal enemies Smiley

More of the same, except more running now that GP is not needed as much
Magnate dies in three turns of Tank/CatClaw/Thunder/Whirl attacks

Nasty Dungeon:
Get Pegasus Magi and RUN

Valhalla:
Pass all treasure except Flare book
Odin battle is tough, best way I've found is to give the Nymph the Aegis Magi, take out Odin's lackeys while he hopefully is ineffective with Ice or Lightng, then kill him in three turns.
Also, get Sleipnir meat for the Fairy, turn into Moaner
Teleport to Nasty Dungeon, find FireMoth meat for the Moaner, turn into Sylph (4th tier Sprite)
Pegasus back to Valhalla to advance

Final World:
Give Dad Flare book and Hecate boots for the Warmach battle
In final town, sell everthing, buy 1 or 2 Laser Guns, two Tents and a Door
Kill Warmach with best attacks, hopefully he goes down in three turns before he kills you with Missile and NukeBomb
Give Heart Magi to Sylph
Door back to final town
Fight Apollo, outlast him until he explodes with one party member and Dad left

Center of the world:
No running here, have to fight everything
Use a Tent when Isis runs out of Flare uses, save second Tent for before Arsenal
Nymph can eat TianLung meat, then DTurtle meat to become Titania (5th tier Sprite)
Sylph can eat Gloom meat, then Fenrir meat to become Athtalot (has Flare with high Mana)
Fight Arsenal, save Flares for final form, heal up during weak second phase while robots whack away with Laser gun and Catclaw

I have to believe that this can be done in under two hours no problem.

Here's the results of my quick run-through last night (without glitches):

Party - 2 robots, 2 Baby-D's

First World:
Kill everything in first world since running is not guaranteed, skip treasure until Ashura Base for selling

Ashura World:
Get WereRat meat twice, turn Baby-D's into Sprites
Sell everything, buy two Sabres for Speed Magi robot
Run through tower, escape from single enemy battles, use a quick Thunder on large groups for big GP gains
Ashura falls in two rounds to a triple-Sabre wielding robot and Mask's Hammer

NOTE: Running in random battles from this point until the final stretch of battles seems to be 100%

Giant World/Ki's Body:
Thunder large groups of Terorist, hope for drops to sell
Thunder large groups in Ki's body, run from the rest

Apollo World:
Dunatis falls in one round, sell everything in town, buy two Laser swords for Speed robot
Same story for volcano and bright cave (Thunder large groups for GP, run from everything else)

Guardian World/Monster World:
Very easy, more of the same

Venus World:
One Sprite can eat Thunder meat, then Hermit meat to become Fairy (2nd tier Sprite)
More of the same after that
Venus dies in three or four turns of Laser Sword whacking while the Sprite and Fairy keep her asleep

Race World:
Sell everything, buy Dragon Armors for robots (maybe skip this?)
Buy fastest dragon (duh, SPEED RUN)
Sprite can eat Lamia meat, then Watcher meat to become Nymph (3rd tier Sprite)

Edo:
Buy two Catclaws for Speed robot, now it does over 1600 damage to normal enemies :)
More of the same, except more running now that GP is not needed as much
Magnate dies in three turns of Tank/CatClaw/Thunder/Whirl attacks

Nasty Dungeon:
Get Pegasus Magi and RUN

Valhalla:
Pass all treasure except Flare book
Odin battle is tough, best way I've found is to give the Nymph the Aegis Magi, take out Odin's lackeys while he hopefully is ineffective with Ice or Lightng, then kill him in three turns.
Also, get Sleipnir meat for the Fairy, turn into Moaner
Teleport to Nasty Dungeon, find FireMoth meat for the Moaner, turn into Sylph (4th tier Sprite)
Pegasus back to Valhalla to advance

Final World:
Give Dad Flare book and Hecate boots for the Warmach battle
In final town, sell everthing, buy 1 or 2 Laser Guns, two Tents and a Door
Kill Warmach with best attacks, hopefully he goes down in three turns before he kills you with Missile and NukeBomb
Give Heart Magi to Sylph
Door back to final town
Fight Apollo, outlast him until he explodes with one party member and Dad left

Center of the world:
No running here, have to fight everything
Use a Tent when Isis runs out of Flare uses, save second Tent for before Arsenal
Nymph can eat TianLung meat, then DTurtle meat to become Titania (5th tier Sprite)
Sylph can eat Gloom meat, then Fenrir meat to become Athtalot (has Flare with high Mana)
Fight Arsenal, save Flares for final form, heal up during weak second phase while robots whack away with Laser gun and Catclaw

I have to believe that this can be done in under two hours no problem.

chessjerk

Edit history:

chessjerk: 2011-04-20 02:26:54 pm

2011-04-20 01:07:59 pm

Ah, I see a way to use the dragon warp glitch and still finish the game.

This run idea is the same as above up to the beginning of Apollo's World. After running through Dunatis' cave or the volcano (whichever is quicker) I have 29 Magi. Using the trash can four times glitches my Magi count to 99.

Open the Magi doors all the way until the Nasty Dungeon, grab the Pegasus Magi.

Use the Pegasus Magi to warp to Race World.

Buy a dragon (I tried the second slowest for control purposes). Once the race starts, Pegasus to Desert town.

Go back up the pillar and abuse the walk-through-walls to get back to the pillar that goes to the Nasty Dungeon.

Loot the Nasty Dungeon of many goodies until inventory is full. All battles should still be run-able.

Pegasus to Desert town again and go to the final town.

Sell the entire inventory and stock up on as many CatClaws as possible for the robots.

Pegasus to Desert town a third time. This time, advance to the central shrine.

Take the normally inoperative teleporter back to the center of the world and go right to Arsenal (hopefully with no randoms, since running is impossible).

Arsenal is beatable with this setup. Have the Sprites cure each other until the robots smash the lasers. Hopefully, the second form does not target the Sprites, if they target the robots, it should miss. Everyone should have max HP when the Smasher starts getting released. If the robots survive two hits from the Smasher, Arsenal should die first.

Is there a way to get Dad to join you in the Arsenal battle? I tried recruiting him my defeating Minion before going to Arsenal but when the Arsenal battle starts, he is not participating.

Ah, I see a way to use the dragon warp glitch and still finish the game.

This run idea is the same as above up to the beginning of Apollo's World. After running through Dunatis' cave or the volcano (whichever is quicker) I have 29 Magi. Using the trash can four times glitches my Magi count to 99.

Open the Magi doors all the way until the Nasty Dungeon, grab the Pegasus Magi.

Use the Pegasus Magi to warp to Race World.

Buy a dragon (I tried the second slowest for control purposes). Once the race starts, Pegasus to Desert town.

Go back up the pillar and abuse the walk-through-walls to get back to the pillar that goes to the Nasty Dungeon.

Loot the Nasty Dungeon of many goodies until inventory is full. All battles should still be run-able.

Pegasus to Desert town again and go to the final town.

Sell the entire inventory and stock up on as many CatClaws as possible for the robots.

Pegasus to Desert town a third time. This time, advance to the central shrine.

Take the normally inoperative teleporter back to the center of the world and go right to Arsenal (hopefully with no randoms, since running is impossible).

Arsenal is beatable with this setup. Have the Sprites cure each other until the robots smash the lasers. Hopefully, the second form does not target the Sprites, if they target the robots, it should miss. Everyone should have max HP when the Smasher starts getting released. If the robots survive two hits from the Smasher, Arsenal should die first.

Is there a way to get Dad to join you in the Arsenal battle? I tried recruiting him my defeating Minion before going to Arsenal but when the Arsenal battle starts, he is not participating.

GalleonLogic

2011-04-20 04:21:57 pm

From what I've read (having had a quick look into speed running this myself), the problem exists that getting the Pegasus magi causes the magi counter to reset to 0 (or rather cycle round to 0). Having not tried it personally I can't say if this causes a major problem to the speed run or not, depending on if the Pegasus magi can be used in conjunction with keeping the dragon/ a door in the upper world that goes backwards being openable with no magi.

The forum post at gamefaqs, talks about the counter and possible ways to overcome it. If this is done this way then a new dragon can always be gotten from re-entering the race, if not then either getting teleport on a mutant from Dunatis or if possible a monster (I really don't know much about the monsters) to maintain the counter. However unless the counter is going to be manipulated for the potions then the possibility of using a mutant is more than likely out. Would it be possible to go and buy some doors from the last town to use instead of the Pegasus magi (I think you'd have to pass through Valhalla that way)? Or would you lose all your magi anyway doing that?

I would also assume that since Isis leaves the party at the start of the Arsenal battle that the game simply removes whichever 5th slot character you happen to have (again not certain, but it's a hunch).

I would really love to know how the memory manipulation works in the TAS to get the seven swords on the robots, but the posts on the TAS forums don't explain it at all.

Sorry if this isn't news to anyone and I'm covering things that have already been taken into consideration.

From what I've read (having had a quick look into speed running this myself), the problem exists that getting the Pegasus magi causes the magi counter to reset to 0 (or rather cycle round to 0).  Having not tried it personally I can't say if this causes a major problem to the speed run or not, depending on if the Pegasus magi can be used in conjunction with keeping the dragon/ a door in the upper world that goes backwards being openable with no magi.

The forum post at gamefaqs, talks about the counter and possible ways to overcome it.  If this is done this way then a new dragon can always be gotten from re-entering the race, if not then either getting teleport on a mutant from Dunatis or if possible a monster (I really don't know much about the monsters) to maintain the counter.  However unless the counter is going to be manipulated for the potions then the possibility of using a mutant is more than likely out.  Would it be possible to go and buy some doors from the last town to use instead of the Pegasus magi (I think you'd have to pass through Valhalla that way)? Or would you lose all your magi anyway doing that?

I would also assume that since Isis leaves the party at the start of the Arsenal battle that the game simply removes whichever 5th slot character you happen to have (again not certain, but it's a hunch).

I would really love to know how the memory manipulation works in the TAS to get the seven swords on the robots, but the posts on the TAS forums don't explain it at all.

Sorry if this isn't news to anyone and I'm covering things that have already been taken into consideration.

chessjerk

2011-04-20 04:31:08 pm

The Magi counter resetting to zero is not a problem. Luckily, you can still access the Pillar of Sky even with no Magi, since the doors that go backwards through the worlds don't require Magi to open. Therefore, I don't need to worry about losing the dragon.

Your assumption about the removal of the 5th character at the start of the Arsenal battle is my assumption as well, but I'm wondering if there is a way around it.

GalleonLogic

2011-04-20 04:43:51 pm

It's good to know about going backwards not being a problem, I guess the part about it in the gamefaqs thread was just for those wanting to continue playing normally (whatever that means when using a game breaking glitch).

If the guest member is removed during the cutscene prior to the fight then if that can be bypassed then it might be possible. But from memory the trigger for the fight is in the cutscene, meaning that without the cutscene there is no fight. Will having an extra character save time? Especially if you have to take time to go and get them and then perform a trick to get them into the battle (noting that from your earlier description of the Arsenal battle it doesn't take all that long).

chessjerk

2011-04-20 04:49:22 pm

It would probably cost time, now that I think about it. Since it was mentioned by Shiner, I'm just more curious than anything else about whether or not it is possible.

GalleonLogic

2011-04-20 05:44:22 pm

So I pulled up an old file I had and it appears that you can access the menu as you step onto the square that lances the cutscene, using a monster that very conveniently learnt teleport just before this and I teleported away. I walked back and got into the fight, but the cutscene triggered as normal and lost Isis as normal. I doubt there is much to this, having tried messing around with a few things to no avail.

I have a feeling that Shiner was considering that since you skip so many things that losing the party member isn't triggered or it was an oversight as to the pre-Arsenal cutscene events.

Poxnor

2011-04-21 04:10:30 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Can anyone translate this document from Japanese (I don't know any Japanese)? It's about the poison glitch, but Google Translate can't make heads or tails of it: Link to view of the original document plus Google Translate's attempt.

Thank you very much Smiley

--Poxnor

chessjerk

2011-04-21 10:52:46 pm

No idea about the translation on that page.

I tried duplicating what the TAS does myself (since it isn't TOO difficult to figure out what's going on), and nothing came of the poison glitch. Oh well.

Poxnor

2011-04-21 10:56:22 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from chessjerk:

I tried duplicating what the TAS does myself (since it isn't TOO difficult to figure out what's going on), and nothing came of the poison glitch. Oh well.

Clearly there's something still glitchy there. I got it as far as saying "POX fell" (instead of, e.g., "Spider fell") when the enemy died from poison, but I couldn't get anything beneficial. That's why I was hoping someone who speaks Japanese could clarify what the description actually says, since the glitch in the TAS broke the game wide open...

chessjerk

2011-06-16 04:19:18 pm

Update:

I totally forgot about this and went and sold my FFLII game. Oh well, I guess I wasn't that interested in speed-running it anyway.

If anyone else wants to give this a shot, feel free, and I can assist.

dballin

2011-06-16 05:54:59 pm

Balls jerky

Looks like I'll have to do it for you Wink

chessjerk

2011-06-16 07:20:33 pm

So THAT was your diabolical plan! Smiley

nitwit

2012-11-16 05:21:18 am

I saw poxnor streaming, and I saw that he managed to get the poison bug to work, so I'll link this here:

cheap's saga 2 RTA in ~13:32 (power-on to The End):

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13068277

There is a hard reset, so it isn't classically single-segment.

knbnitkr's FFL2 (U) TAS in 8:25 (first to last input):

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15782312

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2012-11-16 05:27:25 am

2012-11-16 05:26:10 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Yes, thank you very much to both 0xwas and danacrysalis. I never would have been able to get the bug to work without the help of both of you. This game is going to spend the next little while wishing it was never programmed... Wink

Edit: I'm just still not sure that three party members with 64,000 HP is quite enough... Wink

puwexil

2012-11-16 09:52:50 am

Professional Second Banana

Oohh, going for the FFL full gamut? Color me interested.