Final Fantasy IV: The After Years

2009-07-18 03:24:43 pm

Alright, I managed to get a run of 30 minutes with segments all over the place. Here goes what I have so far.

Still not sure who is going to get the attack bonus for their suicide. Izayoi seems like not a good idea because the second floor can kill her in two rounds. Tsuk doesn't seem like a good idea because the first chest monsters can hit him for like 72 and he can hit himself for 34 or so and he goes down in like two rounds.

So it seems like it is down to Gekkou and Zangetsu. With some luck, Gekkou can run into skeletons the first round which do like 76 damage. Zangetsu ran into some larva, which did not help in killing him. So maybe I have answered my own question? I will have to test using the attack bonus on zangetsu.

As for the minimum amount of stuff to do in each quest before you can get into a fight here is what I have:

Gekkou: Pick up crescent axe, go the next screen

Zangetsu: Talk to the dwarf in the bar, then go to the roof

Izayoi: Wait in the pool for X? number of seconds and try to walkaway, then go get a chocobo, get to the tower, get to the second floor.

Tsuk: Become a frog, listen to meeting, unfrogify, go to the mount of ordeals, open the first chest and die.

So then begins the real speed run.

Pick up one metal boomerang and possibly some hi potions (not sure if two is enough).

Cave of Eblan:
I will agree whole heartedly that Edge needs all the speed he can get so screw the silver breastplate. Pick up the following:

two hi-potions
cross shuriken
rune armlet
kogarasu (Not sure about this but this will be necessary if hi potions are purchased, or the damage is needed)

Belphemjors(spelling?):
They have a predicatable attack pattern of Tornado -> Attack -> Tornado. My idea is to count on two misses in the second round and kill both of them after the second tornado.

(pulling numbers from memory)
Gale does 470ish
Attack with Kogarasu does like 530ish
Throwing a cross shuriken does like 630ish

So group gale the first round does like 230 to both, then throw cross shuriken can kill one and attack the other twice. I gotta test this some more and figure out there HP better so I can plan this thing, but I think this is the fastest.

Flamehounds:
Just flood twice and pray :-). One of their attacks HAS to miss or dead.

Robots:
Shock only does 60 - 70 but it seems to confuse them and they will start attacking each other. Then throw a crescent axe at the one that didn't get self hit (prolly the back row one), then attack the other two.

Ice hounds:
Throw a battle axe at one, and throw a cross shuriken at the other.

Then after that a do run run run away from everything and pray for no back attacks / suprises. I got one back attack and did not die! However I needed two extra hi potions to recover ( Duh I just thought I have heal pill! Hi potions are not needed!) Anyways, run up into little girl

Little girl:
Smack three times, she summons Ifrits.
The pattern Ifrit will go through is Firaga, Firaga, Firaga, Hellfire. So heal after the second firaga and run like crazy until the credits. The end.

So does anyone see any room for improvement / have any thoughts?

Alright, I managed to get a run of 30 minutes with segments all over the place.  Here goes what I have so far.

Still not sure who is going to get the attack bonus for their suicide.  Izayoi seems like not a good idea because the second floor can kill her in two rounds.  Tsuk doesn't seem like a good idea because the first chest monsters can hit him for like 72 and he can hit himself for 34 or so and he goes down in like two rounds.

So it seems like it is down to Gekkou and Zangetsu.  With some luck, Gekkou can run into skeletons the first round which do like 76 damage.  Zangetsu ran into some larva, which did not help in killing him.  So maybe I have answered my own question?  I will have to test using the attack bonus on zangetsu.

As for the minimum amount of stuff to do in each quest before you can get into a fight here is what I have:

Gekkou: Pick up crescent axe, go the next screen

Zangetsu: Talk to the dwarf in the bar, then go to the roof

Izayoi: Wait in the pool for X? number of seconds and try to walkaway, then go get a chocobo, get to the tower, get to the second floor.

Tsuk: Become a frog, listen to meeting, unfrogify, go to the mount of ordeals, open the first chest and die.

So then begins the real speed run.

Pick up one metal boomerang and possibly some hi potions (not sure if two is enough).

Cave of Eblan:
I will agree whole heartedly that Edge needs all the speed he can get so screw the silver breastplate.  Pick up the following:

two hi-potions
cross shuriken
rune armlet
kogarasu (Not sure about this but this will be necessary if hi potions are purchased, or the damage is needed)

Belphemjors(spelling?):
They have a predicatable attack pattern of Tornado -> Attack -> Tornado.  My idea is to count on two misses in the second round and kill both of them after the second tornado.

(pulling numbers from memory)
Gale does 470ish
Attack with Kogarasu does like 530ish
Throwing a cross shuriken does like 630ish

So group gale the first round does like 230 to both, then throw cross shuriken can kill one and attack the other twice.  I gotta test this some more and figure out there HP better so I can plan this thing, but I think this is the fastest.

Flamehounds:
Just flood twice and pray :-).  One of their attacks HAS to miss or dead.

Robots:
Shock only does 60 - 70 but it seems to confuse them and they will start attacking each other.  Then throw a crescent axe at the one that didn't get self hit (prolly the back row one), then attack the other two.

Ice hounds:
Throw a battle axe at one, and throw a cross shuriken at the other.

Then after that a do run run run away from everything and pray for no back attacks / suprises.  I got one back attack and did not die!  However I needed two extra hi potions to recover ( Duh I just thought I have heal pill!  Hi potions are not needed!)  Anyways, run up into little girl

Little girl:
Smack three times, she summons Ifrits.
The pattern Ifrit will go through is Firaga, Firaga, Firaga, Hellfire.  So heal after the second firaga and run like crazy until the credits.  The end.

So does anyone see any room for improvement / have any thoughts?

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-07-18 04:20:02 pm

2009-07-18 04:05:41 pm

This is exciting Smiley

Stealing all the other ninjas' armor gives plenty of money for a Metal Boomerang and more Hi Potions than you need. Using Hi Potions is probably slightly faster than Heal Pill. But if you can make it faster by grabbing Hi Potions from chests, great.

Other than that everything is sounding really good to me. I'm glad my work helped. Both you and Sir_VG running this game is very exciting for me.

edit: There isn't another moon phase that could help Edge out, is there? I doubt it, but ...

edit: Woops Grin

I thought I could probably read Lord_VG's next post down without running into any major spoilers ... Wrong! Heh heh heh, of course I'm not complaining; that was just funny.

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2009-07-18 06:23:47 pm

2009-07-18 04:10:10 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

The Lunarian's Story:

I chopped off 10 minutes off the run down to a nice 0:47. With some better luck (mainly) at MG#1, I could maybe get another minute or two off. The item plan I came up with worked out quite nicely, though it did suck I had to use all 3 Phoenix Downs I had at MG#1, plus I didn't have a 2nd Unicorn Horn for MG#2, so I just had to wait out Fusoya's bind. Zeromus went beautiful - I even got a random Twin Meteo to happen from the Double Black Magic band, which is pretty much guaranteed 9999 against him.

Edit: Got it down to 0:46. I got a little bit of bad luck on Zeromus who kept knocking off Fusoya, but the rest went smooth. 0:45 might be possible if everything goes right, 0:44 if the game is extremely generous.

dannnnn

2009-07-19 10:55:11 am

Just wanted to wish you guys luck with the IL runs of this, it's a very interesting game to run for sure.

I finished all chapters about a week ago and let me tell you, the final chapter (The Crystals) is nuts and is MUCH tougher than any before it. I won't spoil anything of course but I'm sure it will require a fair bit of planning for anyone attempting to speedrun it.

I'll be keeping an eye on the progress being made by you guys and may even attempt to run a chapter myself sometime, goodluck Smiley

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-07-19 02:15:47 pm

2009-07-19 01:49:50 pm

Maybe you could confirm, does the final part allow you to start it without importing any data from other chapters? Generally what levels do you start at? If it doesn't, then there may be no way to make a NG individual-chapter run of it.

edit: Someone at GameFAQs just reported that he beat Kain's bad-guy self at level 15, his starting level I think. This means there's hope for a first-part run with little levelling. Course you'd also have to fight the squid thing x_x

Sir VG

2009-07-19 04:30:49 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Yes, I can confirm that you don't need to import anything.

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-07-19 08:40:53 pm

2009-07-19 04:42:45 pm

Very cool

and thanks. I should probably shut up about that then.

edit:
Ceo's and Kain's chapter:

I think I'm going to try playing around with this at low levels to see what happens. As I said before, it has been confirmed that bad-guy Kain can be beaten at low levels. GameFAQs user Exalted_Ben also said the squid can probably be beaten with items like Fangs for the legs, Sandals and Spider Silk. He thought Tunneler, the Mist Cave boss, might be the biggest challenge.

Stealing Cecil's gear (except his sword which Ceodore can't equip) is probably a good idea. I bet Cecil's 'boss' fights can be beaten at starting levels with Cecil armorless. All his armor has good defense, and raises Ceodore's Spirit to up his healing ability.

I don't think evil Kain ever has to win a fight. Kain's Mythril equipment he has on has slightly higher Def than Cecil's gear but it doesn't aid healing, so I don't know how much of that I want. Ceodore can equip Kain's Wind Spear (better than Mythril Sword), and you can give Hooded Man the Sleep Blade, which you get soon after. I don't know how useful Blood Sword is. If using Sleep Blade as an item works on any bosses that would be huge.

Anyway, the grotto dungeon is the first challenge; I am guessing Ceodore will want to win 0 or 1 extra fight before the boss but I might be wrong. Either Biggs or Wedge uses black magic; I'm guessing Ceodore should steal his equipment. Geez, how many people's stuff is Ceodore gonna rob before this is over?!

edit: During chunks where you don't want to fight at all, moving one or both characters into the back row may be useful.

edit: If Kingsword or any of Rosa's or Cid's gear goes for good money, taking that too might be good. To take the Kingsword (if we end up wanting it), unequip it as soon as Bahamut starts counting down.

edit: Intentionally having Hooded Man dead at the end of a boss fight or two may be a very good idea. Ceo will need the exp. more than he will. Or maybe Ceo dead for boss exp., and have him in the back row and only attack with Hooded Man?

edit: I am guessing some moon manipulation (inns or tents) will be helpful, maybe even necessary.

Edge's chapter:

This is simple enough that SS is a possibility. I'll probably try it a bit once I'm frustrated with the main story :S but I don't expect to beat Messenger's time.

Very cool :) and thanks.  I should probably shut up about that then.

edit: 
Ceo's and Kain's chapter:

I think I'm going to try playing around with this at low levels to see what happens.  As I said before, it has been confirmed that bad-guy Kain can be beaten at low levels.  GameFAQs user Exalted_Ben also said the squid can probably be beaten with items like Fangs for the legs, Sandals and Spider Silk.  He thought Tunneler, the Mist Cave boss, might be the biggest challenge.

Stealing Cecil's gear (except his sword which Ceodore can't equip) is probably a good idea.  I bet Cecil's 'boss' fights can be beaten at starting levels with Cecil armorless.  All his armor has good defense, and raises Ceodore's Spirit to up his healing ability.

I don't think evil Kain ever has to win a fight.  Kain's Mythril equipment he has on has slightly higher Def than Cecil's gear but it doesn't aid healing, so I don't know how much of that I want.  Ceodore can equip Kain's Wind Spear (better than Mythril Sword), and you can give Hooded Man the Sleep Blade, which you get soon after.  I don't know how useful Blood Sword is.  If using Sleep Blade as an item works on any bosses that would be huge.

Anyway, the grotto dungeon is the first challenge;  I am guessing Ceodore will want to win 0 or 1 extra fight before the boss but I might be wrong.  Either Biggs or Wedge uses black magic; I'm guessing Ceodore should steal his equipment.  Geez, how many people's stuff is Ceodore gonna rob before this is over?!

edit: During chunks where you don't want to fight at all, moving one or both characters into the back row may be useful.

edit: If Kingsword or any of Rosa's or Cid's gear goes for good money, taking that too might be good.  To take the Kingsword (if we end up wanting it), unequip it as soon as Bahamut starts counting down.

edit: Intentionally having Hooded Man dead at the end of a boss fight or two may be a very good idea.  Ceo will need the exp. more than he will.  Or maybe Ceo dead for boss exp., and have him in the back row and only attack with Hooded Man?

edit: I am guessing some moon manipulation (inns or tents) will be helpful, maybe even necessary.

Edge's chapter:

This is simple enough that SS is a possibility.  I'll probably try it a bit once I'm frustrated with the main story :S but I don't expect to beat Messenger's time.

Sir VG

2009-07-19 08:46:24 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Rydia's Story:

I've fiddled around with this a bit, and the Sealed Cave is a bitch. And yes, it still has those trap doors with the Ninth Dimension attack. And outside of Brena's Dance (which is random and only in battle), you've got nobody with cure spells. Joy.

Palom's Story:
Giving up Palom's armor for the tower does really help in boosting her magic power, though you still want to gain about 4 levels for her, or Blizzard? and Thunder? is really weak. I don't know how much is needed to gain before the Lodestone Cavern, because that place is a BITCH.

slowbro

2009-07-19 11:04:00 pm

Rydia's Story:

Stop works on trap doors in this game.

After surviving Sealed Cave, I am betting the mine and the turtle will be (relatively) a breeze.

Tomahawk and Dancing Dagger can both be very useful; you may want to collect Kokkol Ores, I don't know.

In Rydia's, a 'good ending' run is possible, and imo would be interesting. You'd have to manipulate the doll enemies in the little room to drop Mythril Bolt and Mythril Nut, hopefully in one fight. It doesn't have to be random. That's where RNG manipulation comes in. (Getting a Cockatrice summon item in the Sylph Cave can also be done with RNG manipulation.)

Final part:

I bet early on there will be big RNG manipulation opportunities. Have you seen how much stronger Giant's Gloves make you?!

Sir VG

2009-07-19 11:10:34 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Rydia's Story:

Stop works?! Oh hell yeah. I'm trying to remember if Rydia has that spell from the get-go. I can't look at the game right now (as I'm at work), but I'll have to remember that. I was just rough playing through it earlier - I've got a lot to figure out about it though. I remember reading about the Kokkol Ores. I know some are the Sylph's Cavern, which will be a waste of time getting, I think. But there's suppose to be a bunch around the Dwarf Castle, which there at least you don't have twosteps-randombattle. Getting Luca a better weapon I think is a must, especially for Demon Wall.

I know you can get a "good ending", but it's more important to get through fast though.

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-07-20 02:20:30 am

2009-07-19 11:48:09 pm

Rydia's Tale:

There's a Battle Axe (guarded by a door x_x) halfway through Sealed Cave. Or, buy a Crescent Axe plus 3 Kokkol Ores for a Battle Axe.

There are at least 5 Kokkol Ores available before going in any dungeon. If there are 6, you could have Battle Axe and Dancing Dagger right away. Dancing Dagger does pretty big damage when used as an item. Battle Axe + 4 Kokkol = Tomahawk, or Hammer + 4 Kokkol = Mythril Hammer. I think Tomahawk does full damage from the back row.

edit: Wait a second, if you don't think you need a Dancing Dagger, you could upgrade to a Mythril Hammer right away!! But a doll with Warrior Clothes does good damage even from the back row using Dancing Dagger as an item.

At this point, do you think keeping the Dolls (or just one of them) alive is worth it? If you don't, you'll likely need a ton of Hi Potions. Warrior's Clothes is in the castle, Angel's Clothes (ups healing) is at the forge, Clown Clothes (ups speed) is in Sylph Cave :/ and Mage's Clothes is somewhere (maybe Sealed?)

Rydia's Tale:

There's a Battle Axe (guarded by a door x_x) halfway through Sealed Cave.  Or, buy a Crescent Axe plus 3 Kokkol Ores for a Battle Axe.

There are at least 5 Kokkol Ores available before going in any dungeon.  If there are 6, you could have Battle Axe and Dancing Dagger right away.  Dancing Dagger does pretty big damage when used as an item.  Battle Axe + 4 Kokkol = Tomahawk, or Hammer + 4 Kokkol = Mythril Hammer.  I think Tomahawk does full damage from the back row.

edit: Wait a second, [u]if you don't think you need a Dancing Dagger, you could upgrade to a Mythril Hammer right away!![/u]  But a doll with Warrior Clothes does good damage even from the back row using Dancing Dagger as an item.

At this point, do you think keeping the Dolls (or just one of them) alive is worth it?  If you don't, you'll likely need a ton of Hi Potions.  Warrior's Clothes is in the castle, Angel's Clothes (ups healing) is at the forge, Clown Clothes (ups speed) is in Sylph Cave :/ and Mage's Clothes is somewhere (maybe Sealed?)

Sir VG

2009-07-20 02:38:54 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Rydia's Story:

Yeah, if I remember right, Mage's Clothes were in the Sealed Cavern and can be equipped by Calca.

Locations of the Kokkol Ores, according to an FAQ:
FEYMARCH - MIDDLE LEVEL
DWARVEN CASTLE - EAST TOWER
DWARVEN CASTLE - INFIRMARY
DWARVEN CASTLE - DWARVEN BASE
KOKKOL'S FORGE
TOMRA - armor shop
TOMRA - pot in the upper left corner of the village
TOMRA - pot inside upper left building
SYLPH CAVE - B2, B3
SEALED CAVE - B3 (x2)

So I can get 8 of them very easily. 3 for a dancing dagger, 3 for a battle axe (or 4 for a Mythril Hammer).

slowbro

2009-07-20 05:20:54 am

Battle Axe: +3 Strength, 42 Atk, requires you to buy Crescent Axe
Mythril Hammer: no stat boost, 55 Atk, means you can't equip a shield

Tomahawk: +5 Strength, 50 Atk, does full damage from back row,
but probably out of the question unless you skip the Dancing Dagger

messenger

2009-07-21 07:47:15 am

Well I took another shot at the suicide portion of Edge's story. This time I used the Attack bonus on Zangetsu. I think the average number of rounds for each character to die was 2ish. I am now convinced that the attack bonus is not useful against Izayoi as she dies fast when she hits the second floor with or without the attack bonus. The attack bonus could possibly be useful with Gekkou as I think he has the highest HP, but if a skeleton battle is manipulated to happen, he dies in 2 - 3 rounds. Anyways, my save time with Edge outside of Eblan is 14:50 or so seconds, whereas my previous best was like 15:XX.

I still cannot figure out any pattern to the Izayoi scripting in the pool. Sometimes it takes walking away four times before the Epopt gets cold, usually its three though. I have had it happen where I talked to the epopts like ten times and then on one walkaway the Epopt got cold. I can't seem to figure any type of timing pattern. Maybe I am just being persnickety, as the amount of time involved is probably less than 5 seconds.

Other than that I think the first half is pretty solid. It is going to suck getting everything I want to have happen in one run.

Well I took another shot at the suicide portion of Edge's story.  This time I used the Attack bonus on Zangetsu.  I think the average number of rounds for each character to die was 2ish.  I am now convinced that the attack bonus is not useful against Izayoi as she dies fast when she hits the second floor with or without the attack bonus.  The attack bonus could possibly be useful with Gekkou as I think he has the highest HP, but if a skeleton battle is manipulated to happen, he dies in 2 - 3 rounds.  Anyways, my save time with Edge outside of Eblan is 14:50 or so seconds, whereas my previous best was like 15:XX.

I still cannot figure out any pattern to the Izayoi scripting in the pool.  Sometimes it takes walking away four times before the Epopt gets cold, usually its three though.  I have had it happen where I talked to the epopts like ten times and then on one walkaway the Epopt got cold.  I can't seem to figure any type of timing pattern.  Maybe I am just being persnickety, as the amount of time involved is probably less than 5 seconds.

Other than that I think the first half is pretty solid.  It is going to suck getting everything I want to have happen in one run.

slowbro

2009-07-21 10:23:32 am

The Izayoi scene will continue after a set time if you do nothing at all. I don't know if talking or walking makes it faster.

I think the best bet is to not save any more times once Edge enters his first dungeon, but of course that's your choice.

messenger

2009-07-21 12:18:46 pm

My intention is to single segment it, I am just not going to like it at some points Smiley

I didn't know about the time out thing (I think I might just bring a stop watch home), I always got antsy and walked away and then the girl would get cold, so I thought it triggered it.

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-07-22 08:00:12 pm

2009-07-21 12:57:41 pm

Edge's Chapter:

I recorded a single-segment 30:25 or so. I'm thinking, if we end up with a SS 0:29 we probably did well.

I think 2 Floods is best in the opening battle against the other ninjas. This time I followed messenger's suicide plan I think. Gekkou went first, Izayoi on half-damage (ran to floor 2), Zangetsu on extra damage (unfortunately got Toadgres rather than Sahagins), and Tsuk last. WOW a Shock helps against the robots! My only throws this time were 2 against the Ice Beasts (I skipped Crescent Axe).

The run had enough tiny, ugly mistakes that I don't want to submit this one.

Running to floor 2 can take so long, there's an outside chance Izayoi may want to commit suicide against Helldivers during extra damage.

edit:
Ceodore's Tale:

Raising from level 2 to level 4 significantly increases both his speed and his strength. It makes Ceo run sooner against enemies, and makes Sand Worm much more beatable, so I think we want to win an extra fight before Sand Worm, probably after we've stolen Biggs' equipment. Actually we may want to steal Wedge's armor (not sword) too to make it more likely he'll finish the Belphegor fight dead. That would give Ceo an extra 500 exp.

After leaving the grotto, I think we want to use a Tent. Otherwise, during Full Moon, Cecil's unrunnable battles take too long.

There are items in Baron we may well want: Red Fang, Hermes Sandals, Hi Potions and 500 gil. I'm robbing so much equipment that I may be able to stock up well at a store, though.

Heal Cecil before the Centaur Knight! At Cecil's team's lowest possible levels I just beat their last three fights without any armor on any of them (on Waning Moon), but Rosa may want to hold on to something so her healing would be stronger. I didn't win the eye guy fight until after Doom killed one of us, though (I revived him before the fight was over). Like noted before Cecil's armor is great for Ceodore, but if we end up making Ceodore a back-row healer for a while, he may also want Rosa's Miter and Surplice to make his healing even stronger. edit: Sage's Miter gives him good magic defense.

... And that's all the farther I am.

edit: Woops, there is a fight bad Kain has to win :S (vs Edward). He can certainly win it without armor, but for speed you'll want to give him a decent weapon.

Edge's Chapter:

I recorded a single-segment 30:25 or so.  I'm thinking, if we end up with a SS 0:29 we probably did well.

I think 2 Floods is best in the opening battle against the other ninjas.  This time I followed messenger's suicide plan I think.  Gekkou went first, Izayoi on half-damage (ran to floor 2), Zangetsu on extra damage (unfortunately got Toadgres rather than Sahagins), and Tsuk last.  WOW a Shock helps against the robots!  My only throws this time were 2 against the Ice Beasts (I skipped Crescent Axe).

The run had enough tiny, ugly mistakes that I don't want to submit this one.

Running to floor 2 can take so long, there's an outside chance Izayoi may want to commit suicide against Helldivers during extra damage.

edit:
Ceodore's Tale:

Raising from level 2 to level 4 significantly increases both his speed and his strength.  It makes Ceo run sooner against enemies, and makes Sand Worm much more beatable, so I think we want to win an extra fight before Sand Worm, probably after we've stolen Biggs' equipment.  Actually we may want to steal Wedge's armor (not sword) too to make it more likely he'll finish the Belphegor fight dead.  That would give Ceo an extra 500 exp.

After leaving the grotto, I think we want to use a Tent.  Otherwise, during Full Moon, Cecil's unrunnable battles take too long.

There are items in Baron we may well want: Red Fang, Hermes Sandals, Hi Potions and 500 gil.  I'm robbing so much equipment that I may be able to stock up well at a store, though.

Heal Cecil before the Centaur Knight!  At Cecil's team's lowest possible levels I just beat their last three fights without any armor on any of them (on Waning Moon), but Rosa may want to hold on to something so her healing would be stronger.  I didn't win the eye guy fight until after Doom killed one of us, though (I revived him before the fight was over).  Like noted before Cecil's armor is great for Ceodore, but if we end up making Ceodore a back-row healer for a while, he may also want Rosa's Miter and Surplice to make his healing even stronger.  edit:  Sage's Miter gives him good magic defense.

... And that's all the farther I am.

edit: Woops, there is a fight bad Kain has to win :S (vs Edward).  He can certainly win it without armor, but for speed you'll want to give him a decent weapon.

messenger

2009-07-22 05:23:49 pm

Quote from slowbro:

Edge's Chapter:

I recorded a single-segment 30:25 or so. I'm thinking, if we end up with a SS 0:29 we probably did well.

I think 2 Floods is best in the opening battle against the other ninjas. This time I followed messenger's suicide plan I think. Gekkou went first, Izayoi on half-damage (ran to floor 2), Zangetsu on extra damage (unfortunately got Toadgres rather than Sahagins), and Tsuk last. WOW a Shock helps against the robots! My only throws this time were 2 against the Ice Beasts (I skipped Crescent Axe).

The run had enough tiny, ugly mistakes that I don't want to submit this one.

Running to floor 2 can take so long, there's an outside chance Izayoi may want to commit suicide against Helldivers during extra damage.

I have to agree with you, it seems like I got into like 4 battles before floor two and then I ran around forever before I got a battle. I will try to do some more suicide combos tonight.

slowbro

2009-07-22 11:51:40 pm

Rydia's Tale:

I played around with this. I entered Sealed Cave with everyone at their starting levels, but I had acquired a Dancing Dagger, a Mythril Hammer, and a lot of stuff I bought with the money available in chests (including a bunch of Potions and three Silver Armlets.

There are no trap doors you are required to fight. This team is r e a l l y not outfitted with speed, making running often take longer than fighting at low levels. It's nice when you face Blood Flowers and Liliths, because one Fira spell finishes those fights off (Rydia has Fira from the beginning).

I reached the save spot directly on my path at levels 10, 12, 16 and 10. Man the enemies after that save are meaner :/ The good news, sometimes you only face one fight between there and the boss. Anyway, I ran from that fight, and at those levels I did eventually beat the boss.

Spider Silk appears to work on the boss! I'm not totally sure of that, as it had a status ailment from Calca's Jive when I tried it. You can obtain a Bacchu's Wine (berserk) by that point, and berserk Luca with Mythril Hammer does pretty good damage to the boss.

A big issue is whether you can Warp or something after that. If not, you'll have to walk all the way back out of the dungeon ... and I'd bet Run still won't work easily.

I'm still 50/50 as to whether we should have Calca and Brina alive at all. We also may not need Dancing Dagger, in which case Luca could fight from the back row with a Tomahawk. Then again, if only two of us were alive Petrify would be an issue against the wall.

Calca and Brina leave the party when you leave the dungeon, so the ones that need the levels for the mine are Luca and Rydia. I sure hope mine enemies are easier to run from (but I doubt it x_x) If we do end up gaining some levels, I've got a feeling the turtle boss will be one of the easier parts of the run. I may be wrong!

Rydia's Tale:

I played around with this.  I entered Sealed Cave with everyone at their starting levels, but I had acquired a Dancing Dagger, a Mythril Hammer, and a lot of stuff I bought with the money available in chests (including a bunch of Potions and three Silver Armlets.

There are no trap doors you are required to fight.  This team is r e a l l y not outfitted with speed, making running often take longer than fighting at low levels.  It's nice when you face Blood Flowers and Liliths, because one Fira spell finishes those fights off (Rydia has Fira from the beginning).

I reached the save spot directly on my path at levels 10, 12, 16 and 10.  Man the enemies after that save are meaner :/  The good news, sometimes you only face one fight between there and the boss.  Anyway, I ran from that fight, and at those levels I did eventually beat the boss.

Spider Silk appears to work on the boss!  I'm not totally sure of that, as it had a status ailment from Calca's Jive when I tried it.  You can obtain a Bacchu's Wine (berserk) by that point, and berserk Luca with Mythril Hammer does pretty good damage to the boss.

A big issue is whether you can Warp or something after that.  If not, you'll have to walk all the way back out of the dungeon ... and I'd bet Run still won't work easily.

I'm still 50/50 as to whether we should have Calca and Brina alive at all.  We also may not need Dancing Dagger, in which case Luca could fight from the back row with a Tomahawk.  Then again, if only two of us were alive Petrify would be an issue against the wall.

Calca and Brina leave the party when you leave the dungeon, so the ones that need the levels for the mine are Luca and Rydia.  I sure hope mine enemies are easier to run from (but I doubt it x_x)  If we do end up gaining some levels, I've got a feeling the turtle boss will be one of the easier parts of the run.  I may be wrong!

Sir VG

2009-07-23 04:53:19 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Rydia's Story:

Blood Flowers are definitely a bitch. POWDER ATTACK POWDER ATTACK POWDER ATTACK POWDER...

From what I've read, since the same scenario as with Kain and party happens again (from the original game), you might be limited on warp. I'll work on checking this out a bit. I'll also check out if not leveling up Calca and Brena is doable too. I just like need some TIME to work on it. Man, work sucks. Tongue

slowbro

2009-07-23 08:37:13 pm

Rydia's Tale:

I actually hope for the Blood Flowers (and Liliths), since one Fira finishes off the fight.

I tried fighting the wall again, with the same party but this time with the dolls KOed. The following are extremely useful: Spider Silk, and Hermes Sandals and Bacchu's Wine for Luca. With those and a little luck not petrifying Luca too quickly, the two of them can win.

But as you suspected, Warp appears to be totally disabled in this dungeon. I thought it might work on some floors, but apparently it doesn't. I healed us up after winning against the wall, and a party of purple flan guys finished us off before we could run. Boo, I wanted to see how we'd fare in the mine.

If you could make it back to the save point, though, the rest of the way the fights wouldn't be so dangerous, but still probably time-consuming.

I'm not trying to rush you. I know right now you'd probably want to be speedrunning this or something else rather than at work Grin

Turns out I've been manipulating the RNG without meaning to. As my party is now, after the save point we face three tough fights in the next room, the first being a bunch of bats that hit us 20 times before we can run. But we die at a certain point, and after that we always make it to the boss with just one fight we can run from relatively quickly. We might be able to use stuff like that.

(Also, I've heard random battles are slightly less common during certain moon phases.)

Rydia's Tale:

I actually hope for the Blood Flowers (and Liliths), since one Fira finishes off the fight.

I tried fighting the wall again, with the same party but this time with the dolls KOed.  The following are extremely useful: Spider Silk, and Hermes Sandals and Bacchu's Wine for Luca.  With those and a little luck not petrifying Luca too quickly, the two of them can win.

But as you suspected, Warp appears to be totally disabled in this dungeon.  I thought it might work on some floors, but apparently it doesn't.  I healed us up after winning against the wall, and a party of purple flan guys finished us off before we could run.  Boo, I wanted to see how we'd fare in the mine.

If you could make it back to the save point, though, the rest of the way the fights wouldn't be so dangerous, but still probably time-consuming.

I'm not trying to rush you.  I know right now you'd probably want to be speedrunning this or something else rather than at work ;D

Turns out I've been manipulating the RNG without meaning to.  As my party is now, after the save point we face three tough fights in the next room, the first being a bunch of bats that hit us 20 times before we can run.  But we die at a certain point, and after that we always make it to the boss with just one fight we can run from relatively quickly.  We might be able to use stuff like that.

(Also, I've heard random battles are slightly less common during certain moon phases.)

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-07-29 05:46:19 pm

2009-07-25 05:27:26 pm

Yang's Tale:

I'm noticing that Headband, Power Armlet, and Metal Knuckles all give +5 increases each to strength (often multiplier increases too), and Fairy Claws give +3 to speed. edit: Hell Claws gives just +3 strength, and Green Beret gives the same strength boost as Headband plus a stamina boost.

I don't know just how big a difference these would make, nor do I know which of them you normally use. (Kenpo Gi gives a bonus too but I doubt you'll be getting more of those than the one Yang already has.)

edit: I bet you know this, but just in case, there's a shortcut at the south end of Ursula's second room of the forest. Looks like no elements boost or lower damage against Adamantoise.

edit: Do you ride a chocobo to reach Mt. Hobs? I don't know if it's faster.

edit:
Palom's Tale:

When I mentioned swapping Palom's and Leo's gear at the start, I was only thinking in terms of defense and magic defense, i.e. keeping Leonora alive. But yeah, both Wizard Hat and Ice Rod increase her black magic's power.

I'm about to find out if Tower of Trials enemies are any easier to run from than those terrible Sealed Cavern enemies x_x (I bet they are).

edit: On floor 6 there's a Sage's Miter we should probably get, but it doesn't boost black magic at all, so we might want to wait to put it on until after the Mini Yellows if we have Wizard Hat on Leonora beforehand.

edit: Uh oh, in my decidedly non-speed playthrough where I'm fighting every battle, we're at the top of the tower, and neither one of us knows Warp yet. Looks like the speedrunner will probably have to run all the way down the tower. (we know Teleport but it doesn't work)

edit:
Ceodore's Tale

I'm continuing on with my experimental run (have fought one extra fight so far - to get Ceodore from level 2 to 4 to fight the Sand Worm).

Now we're in Mysidia; Ceo's at level 10. I sold all our extra equipment, including what I stole off Cid and Rosa, for 3000 (edit: 3600 with Surplice which I don't think we want, 4600 if we don't want Miter for magic defense when fighting the squid). The biggest chunk was Rune Armlet (we can't equip it) for 1000. There's no reason to steal Cecil's Kingsword, since it can't be sold. In total we have 7800 gil, but some of that is from treasure chests so we won't have that much in the run.

Hooded Man is equipped with all his (kickass) starting gear (which Ceo can't equip). Ceo's equipped with his Weaksword and all Cecil's armor, and I'm saving Rosa's Surplice and Miter in case I need them. edit: Miter has good magic defense and a big Spirit increase. If we sell them, Miter's 1000 and Surplice is 600. I'm not buying any equipment right now. I bought a modest supply of Potions, Downs and Tents (Tents mostly for altering moon phase).

edit: Running from Devil's Road enemies is ridiculously easy; having Ceo in back is totally unnecessary. Chest items we may want are Sage's Surplice (edit: I don't think we want it) and a Silver Apple (+50 max hp). PLUS, there's a quick RNG exploit here to get more Silver Apples if we want to. Each one costs one hi potion and 30-40 seconds. If anyone uses this method do not credit me. It was discovered by a GameFAQs user. Save at the save spot, reset the game, run left to the next room, get in a fight, switch turns, have someone Hi Potion the Lilith, have Hooded Man beat both Bloodbones and save again (or continue forward), and you've got an extra Silver Apple.

But in this test run I will not be fighting any Liliths or using any Silver Apples, except possibly the one from the chest if I need it.

edit: Wow, Spider Silks cost 100 in Baron town! They seem to work on most bosses. I bought Iron Sword for Ceodore for 1000 for facing Tunneler, but I don't know whether it's worth it. HM will be doing so much of the damage that I may want Ceo in back.

Time to see if Waterway enemies are wimps like Devil's Road enemies ... edit: Not quite. They generally get in a round of attacks before I can run. Ceodore may want to switch to the back row now, but doing so is potentially time wasted, because he'll be booted to the front again when the mages leave.

There's 2000 gil to the right of the waterway entrance.

Don't bother stealing the mages' gear; it's worth very little.

I'm almost sure riding a chocobo gets us to Mist Cave faster, unless we really manipulate luck. But it's worth testing. I am terrified of the next dungeon. I wonder if we should've gained any extra levels by now.

edit: We can get through Mist Cave, but running takes a while and we take major damage. I wonder if being a couple levels higher would up our speed enough to run faster from fights (and need to cure less)?

There's equipment in Mist Cave. But it's all barely an improvement, and/or way out of the way, or we'll soon have a faster way to get it. I didn't find any treasures I think we should grab.

We're at the save point just before Tunneler x_x levels 15 & 11. Ceodore has about 250 max HP. This guy knows Quake.

edit: To my surprise, we can beat Tunneler with the moon phase that increases attack damage. It should be the preferred phase then, I think. One Spider Silk works wonders.

Earthquake is his counterattack. It and his normal attacks both deal about 200 damage, so we need to keep Ceodore well-healed, or just let him die once HM's band-casting MP is used up. I'm leaning toward well-healed, since then all HM's turns can go toward attacking. Oh, having Ceo in the front row and/or Ceo attacking Tunneler would be suicide. edit: I tried a few attack items against him. They weren't that good. But he doesn't counter them, and we have money and the ability to buy them. A lot less healing turns would be needed if we used these after we run out of MP for the band. Or an ether on HM so he can use the band twice more? (probably not; I'm just brainstorming)

I tried levelling up from 15/11 to 17/14 (didn't save afterward of course). Ceo's speed went up by 1, and HM's stayed the same Angry

So we're not going to make it much faster to run from battles just by gaining a level or two.

Also, by lv14 Ceodore still hadn't learned Cura Angry

So Ceo's healing is of very limited use inside of battles.

edit: I think Ceo will want to switch to the Mythril gear Kain has for defense, but that would make his healing outside battles even weaker. Kain has one set of Mythril gear on (steal it) and could pick up another set from treasure chests; he could possibly pick some of it up if HM wants it or if it's worth selling. I think we're going to want to take his Wind Spear, but that's only if it's actually worth it to increase Ceo's attack. If increasing Ceo's attack increases the band's power, then it probably is.

Other than maybe the Mythril Gear (including Sword if we want to sell it) I didn't find anything worth grabbing on Mt. Ordeals or in Serpent's Trench. Baron castle has a Red Fang not far out of the way. There's a White Fang, a Hermes Sandals and a Bacchu's Wine way out of the way :/ I've been concentrating on Fangs at ExaltedBen's recommendation, but I don't know yet if they're better than the other attack items.

Anyway, we've entered Mist. edit: Mythril Armor sells for a whopping 8500! But it can increase both our defense, and Ceo's Knight Armor goes for 4000. Actually, some of the Mythril equipment increases HM's defense more than it increases Ceo's.

We've got lots of armor choices at this point. There's up to two sets of Mythril Armor (wear, sell, or don't even pick up), HM's old armor, and Ceo's old armor which increases Spirit. I have very little idea which armor we should end up with at this point.

As for weapons, HM soon gets Sleep Blade. Giving Ceo a good weapon increases their band strength slightly, so Ceo might want Wind Spear, or we may want to keep that on Kain (or sell it?) Right now HM only has enough MP to use the band twice, so the extra 100 damage per use may not be worth it.

Next comes the collapsed mountain. I'm scared. edit: Yup, random encounters are getting much scarier. One option to make Mist Cliff less scary is full moon.

Sleep Blade is most of the way up. I think we want it. I am very grateful for the save point on top. On the way down there are (out of the way) Flame Shield and Hermes Sandals (Haste item). One or both might be useful against the squid, or the Sandals against Evil Kain, but we've already had at least 2 safer opportunities at Sandals in Baron castle (one of them way out of the way).

Holy $?!!, don't help Kain's dark side beat him in the flashback. If you finish yourself off, the game returns to the title screen :/

edit: Uh oh, the Zombie Infantry fight in Kaipo is very dangerous at these levels. That's a bad sign. Sleep Blade works as an item to put them all to sleep. Bomb Cranks work well, but we'd need to collect them from treasure chests (I've gotten 3).

A slow way we can probably win is just to attack them, and have one of us use the Sleep Blade as an item every time they wake up. Edit: Duh, woops, I was on Full Moon from the last dungeon. On another moon phase HM could beat them quicker, only putting them to sleep once or possibly twice. Lol, HM just went up a level for the first time.

The store sells Flame Sword and some armor; if we've sold enough armor some of this may be worth it but I doubt it.

I assume the next Waterway will be even more dangerous than the cliff. Ceodore's max HP is still 280, and he won't learn Cura for several levels. I've been having him in the back row for a long time.

edit: Buy a few Antidotes sometime by this point. Frogs in here like to poison us.

Waterway enemies are quite dangerous. If we really want to be here at this low of levels, we probably want to put a lot of them to sleep just to help us run away. But even then they still get in attacks.

Unless we want to sleep several extra times, we can only be on Full Moon for one of these last 2 dungeons (Cliff and Waterway).

edit: The strongest weapon in the chapter (Icebrand) is in the first chest after the save point, guarded by a golem. We can win the fight putting him to sleep with Sleep Blade. I think we want the Icebrand, so in my test run I got it. HM got all the sizeable chunk of experience points, since Ceodore was dead.

edit: I haven't beaten the squid yet, but I think I can. Spider's Silk slows all 5 parts at once! I thought I'd use Bacchu's Wine on HM, but then he attacks parts randomly Angry

We only need to beat the head. I think attack items do too little damage to be worth using. (Scrap those Fang references I made this post; Fangs are useless.) Icebrand, however, is very useful. I switch from Sleep Blade to Icebrand right before the boss. (It's almost necessary at this point to put random enemies to sleep.)

edit: Yup, we beat the squid. With Spider Silk it wasn't too hard. HM used Hermes Sandals on himself (maybe not necessary). Ceo was in the back row healing with Hi Potions and sometimes Potions on himself. This is the only fight the Icebrand will be useful, so we probably shouldn't have gotten it. Ceodore wore Rosa's Sage's Miter for the magic defense, but it probably wasn't necessary.

One more fight and we're done. edit: Woops, 2 fights. I put the guards to sleep. With Spider Silk Evil Kain wasn't tough.

I think there was no reason to take Kain's Wind Spear. Just leave it on him for the Edward fight.

I think the only things worth buying are Spider Silks, Hi Potions, and a few Potions, Tents and Phoenix Downs. We get to sell so much stuff, we can buy plenty of those.

Well, I'm going to attempt an actual test speedrun (unrecorded). If I make it I'll be bumping this thread Smiley

Yang's Tale:

I'm noticing that Headband, Power Armlet, and Metal Knuckles all give +5 increases each to strength (often multiplier increases too), and Fairy Claws give +3 to speed.  edit: Hell Claws gives just +3 strength, and Green Beret gives the same strength boost as Headband plus a stamina boost.

I don't know just how big a difference these would make, nor do I know which of them you normally use.  (Kenpo Gi gives a bonus too but I doubt you'll be getting more of those than the one Yang already has.)

edit:  I bet you know this, but just in case, there's a shortcut at the south end of Ursula's second room of the forest.  Looks like no elements boost or lower damage against Adamantoise.

edit: Do you ride a chocobo to reach Mt. Hobs?  I don't know if it's faster.

edit:
Palom's Tale:

When I mentioned swapping Palom's and Leo's gear at the start, I was only thinking in terms of defense and magic defense, i.e. keeping Leonora alive.  But yeah, both Wizard Hat and Ice Rod increase her black magic's power.

I'm about to find out if Tower of Trials enemies are any easier to run from than those terrible Sealed Cavern enemies x_x (I bet they are).

edit: On floor 6 there's a Sage's Miter we should probably get, but it doesn't boost black magic at all, so we might want to wait to put it on until after the Mini Yellows if we have Wizard Hat on Leonora beforehand.

edit: Uh oh, in my decidedly non-speed playthrough where I'm fighting every battle, we're at the top of the tower, and neither one of us knows Warp yet.  Looks like the speedrunner will probably have to run all the way down the tower.  (we know Teleport but it doesn't work)

edit: 
Ceodore's Tale

I'm continuing on with my experimental run (have fought one extra fight so far - to get Ceodore from level 2 to 4 to fight the Sand Worm).

Now we're in Mysidia; Ceo's at level 10.  I sold all our extra equipment, including what I stole off Cid and Rosa, for 3000 (edit: 3600 with Surplice which I don't think we want, 4600 if we don't want Miter for magic defense when fighting the squid).  The biggest chunk was Rune Armlet (we can't equip it) for 1000.  There's no reason to steal Cecil's Kingsword, since it can't be sold.  In total we have 7800 gil, but some of that is from treasure chests so we won't have that much in the run.

Hooded Man is equipped with all his (kickass) starting gear (which Ceo can't equip).  Ceo's equipped with his Weaksword and all Cecil's armor, and I'm saving Rosa's Surplice and Miter in case I need them. edit: Miter has good magic defense and a big Spirit increase.  If we sell them, Miter's 1000 and Surplice is 600. I'm not buying any equipment right now.  I bought a modest supply of Potions, Downs and Tents (Tents mostly for altering moon phase).

edit: Running from Devil's Road enemies is ridiculously easy; having Ceo in back is totally unnecessary.  Chest items we may want are Sage's Surplice (edit: I don't think we want it) and a Silver Apple (+50 max hp).  [u]PLUS, there's a quick RNG exploit here to get more Silver Apples[/u] if we want to.  Each one costs one hi potion and 30-40 seconds.  If anyone uses this method do not credit me.  It was discovered by a GameFAQs user.  Save at the save spot, reset the game, run left to the next room, get in a fight, switch turns, have someone Hi Potion the Lilith, have Hooded Man beat both Bloodbones and save again (or continue forward), and you've got an extra Silver Apple.

But in this test run I will not be fighting any Liliths or using any Silver Apples, except possibly the one from the chest if I need it.

edit: Wow, Spider Silks cost 100 in Baron town!  They seem to work on most bosses.  I bought Iron Sword for Ceodore for 1000 for facing Tunneler, but I don't know whether it's worth it.  HM will be doing so much of the damage that I may want Ceo in back.

Time to see if Waterway enemies are wimps like Devil's Road enemies ...  edit: Not quite.  They generally get in a round of attacks before I can run.  Ceodore may want to switch to the back row now, but doing so is potentially time wasted, because he'll be booted to the front again when the mages leave.

There's 2000 gil to the right of the waterway entrance.

Don't bother stealing the mages' gear; it's worth very little.

I'm almost sure riding a chocobo gets us to Mist Cave faster, unless we really manipulate luck.  But it's worth testing.  I am terrified of the next dungeon.  I wonder if we should've gained any extra levels by now.

edit:  We can get through Mist Cave, but running takes a while and we take major damage.  I wonder if being a couple levels higher would up our speed enough to run faster from fights (and need to cure less)?

There's equipment in Mist Cave.  But it's all barely an improvement, and/or way out of the way, or we'll soon have a faster way to get it.  I didn't find any treasures I think we should grab.

We're at the save point just before Tunneler x_x levels 15 & 11.  Ceodore has about 250 max HP.  This guy knows Quake.

edit: To my surprise, we can beat Tunneler with the moon phase that increases attack damage.  It should be the preferred phase then, I think.  One Spider Silk works wonders.

Earthquake is his counterattack.  It and his normal attacks both deal about 200 damage, so we need to keep Ceodore well-healed, or just let him die once HM's band-casting MP is used up.  I'm leaning toward well-healed, since then all HM's turns can go toward attacking.  Oh, having Ceo in the front row and/or Ceo attacking Tunneler would be suicide.  edit:  I tried a few attack items against him.  They weren't that good.  But he doesn't counter them, and we have money and the ability to buy them.  A lot less healing turns would be needed if we used these after we run out of MP for the band.  Or an ether on HM so he can use the band twice more? (probably not; I'm just brainstorming)

I tried levelling up from 15/11 to 17/14 (didn't save afterward of course).  Ceo's speed went up by 1, and HM's stayed the same >:(  So we're not going to make it much faster to run from battles just by gaining a level or two.

Also, by lv14 Ceodore still hadn't learned Cura >:( >:(  So Ceo's healing is of very limited use inside of battles.

edit: I think Ceo will want to switch to the Mythril gear Kain has for defense, but that would make his healing outside battles even weaker.  Kain has one set of Mythril gear on (steal it) and could pick up another set from treasure chests; he could possibly pick some of it up if HM wants it or if it's worth selling.  I think we're going to want to take his Wind Spear, but that's only if it's actually worth it to increase Ceo's attack.  If increasing Ceo's attack increases the band's power, then it probably is.

Other than maybe the Mythril Gear (including Sword if we want to sell it) I didn't find anything worth grabbing on Mt. Ordeals or in Serpent's Trench.  Baron castle has a Red Fang not far out of the way.    There's a White Fang, a Hermes Sandals and a Bacchu's Wine way out of the way :/  I've been concentrating on Fangs at ExaltedBen's recommendation, but I don't know yet if they're better than the other attack items.

Anyway, we've entered Mist.  edit: Mythril Armor sells for a whopping 8500!  But it can increase both our defense, and Ceo's Knight Armor goes for 4000.  Actually, some of the Mythril equipment increases HM's defense more than it increases Ceo's.

We've got lots of armor choices at this point.  There's up to two sets of Mythril Armor (wear, sell, or don't even pick up), HM's old armor, and Ceo's old armor which increases Spirit.  I have very little idea which armor we should end up with at this point.

As for weapons, HM soon gets Sleep Blade.  Giving Ceo a good weapon increases their band strength slightly, so Ceo might want Wind Spear, or we may want to keep that on Kain (or sell it?)  Right now HM only has enough MP to use the band twice, so the extra 100 damage per use may not be worth it.

Next comes the collapsed mountain.  I'm scared.  edit: Yup, random encounters are getting much scarier.  One option to make Mist Cliff less scary is full moon.

Sleep Blade is most of the way up. I think we want it.  I am very grateful for the save point on top.  On the way down there are (out of the way) Flame Shield and Hermes Sandals (Haste item).  One or both might be useful against the squid, or the Sandals against Evil Kain, but we've already had at least 2 safer opportunities at Sandals in Baron castle (one of them way out of the way).

Holy $?!!, don't help Kain's dark side beat him in the flashback.  If you finish yourself off, the game returns to the title screen :/

edit: Uh oh, the Zombie Infantry fight in Kaipo is very dangerous at these levels.  That's a bad sign.  Sleep Blade works as an item to put them all to sleep.  Bomb Cranks work well, but we'd need to collect them from treasure chests (I've gotten 3).

A slow way we can probably win is just to attack them, and have one of us use the Sleep Blade as an item every time they wake up.  Edit: Duh, woops, I was on Full Moon from the last dungeon.  On another moon phase HM could beat them quicker, only putting them to sleep once or possibly twice.  Lol, HM just went up a level for the first time.

The store sells Flame Sword and some armor; if we've sold enough armor some of this may be worth it but I doubt it.

I assume the next Waterway will be even more dangerous than the cliff.  Ceodore's max HP is still 280, and he won't learn Cura for several levels.  I've been having him in the back row for a long time.

edit: Buy a few Antidotes sometime by this point.  Frogs in here like to poison us.

Waterway enemies are quite dangerous.  If we really want to be here at this low of levels, we probably want to put a lot of them to sleep just to help us run away.  But even then they still get in attacks.

Unless we want to sleep several extra times, we can only be on Full Moon for one of these last 2 dungeons (Cliff and Waterway).

edit:  The strongest weapon in the chapter (Icebrand) is in the first chest after the save point, guarded by a golem.  We can win the fight putting him to sleep with Sleep Blade.  I think we want the Icebrand, so in my test run I got it.  HM got all the sizeable chunk of experience points, since Ceodore was dead.

edit:  I haven't beaten the squid yet, but I think I can.  Spider's Silk slows all 5 parts at once!  I thought I'd use Bacchu's Wine on HM, but then he attacks parts randomly >:(  We only need to beat the head.  I think attack items do too little damage to be worth using. (Scrap those Fang references I made this post; Fangs are useless.)  Icebrand, however, is very useful.  I switch from Sleep Blade to Icebrand right before the boss.  (It's almost necessary at this point to put random enemies to sleep.)

edit: Yup, we beat the squid.   With Spider Silk it wasn't too hard.  HM used Hermes Sandals on himself (maybe not necessary).  Ceo was in the back row healing with Hi Potions and sometimes Potions on himself.  This is the only fight the Icebrand will be useful, so we probably shouldn't have gotten it.  Ceodore wore Rosa's Sage's Miter for the magic defense, but it probably wasn't necessary.

One more fight and we're done.  edit: Woops, 2 fights.  I put the guards to sleep.  With Spider Silk Evil Kain wasn't tough.

I think there was no reason to take Kain's Wind Spear.  Just leave it on him for the Edward fight.

I think the only things worth buying are Spider Silks, Hi Potions, and a few Potions, Tents and Phoenix Downs.  We get to sell so much stuff, we can buy plenty of those.

Well, I'm going to attempt an actual test speedrun (unrecorded).  If I make it I'll be bumping this thread :)

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-07-30 12:15:22 am

2009-07-29 06:08:30 pm

Ceodore's/Kain's Tale:

Like I said in my (long) last post, I made it to the end of the main story, and I think we can do it with just the one extra fight very early on (though there may be a faster plan). I hope some of that post is helpful, because I don't think I'm the right person to record the video (for one, I'm slow at navigating RPG menus). Also I'm hoping messenger or someone will beat my Edge video, because it's messy.

Anyway, now I'm attempting an actual (unrecorded) test speedrun. This should be fun! I'm making tons of little mistakes.

I'll share some key save times (I'm saving other places too), and make a few other notes:

Took all Biggs' gear.
Took Wedge's gear besides sword.
Equipped Ceodore.
Fought 1 extra fight after Biggs/Wedge left party to reach level 4.
After Grotto, used Tent to change moon phase.
Save: 0:11

Wedge died in fight to give extra exp. to Ceodore.
Grabbed Hermes Sandals (for squid) in East Tower.
Took all Cecil's, Rosa's & Cid's armor (not weapons).
Save outside Mysidia: 0:32

Grabbed Silver Apple from chest and used it on Ceodore. (probably worth it)
Sold tons of gear; bought (approximately)
5-8 Spider Silks (haven't counted how many I need)
30 Hi Potions
10 Potions
10 Phoenix Downs
10 Tents
Grabbed 2000 gil just before waterway (edit: Don't get this, you don't need it.)
Didn't even heal the mages; I just let them die.
Thankfully New Moon came eventually.
Thanks for the ride, chocobo!
Save outside Mist Cave: 0:44

I put Ceodore in back. (and will do so over and over for the rest of the run)
This is the last stage where the brunt of my between-fight healing will be with magic.
I didn't switch to high damage since it would've taken several switches.
Spider Silked the Tunneler
Between-chapter save: 0:54

Grabbed Mythril Armor on my way back up Mt. Ordeals.
Stole Kain's mythril gear; let him keep Wind Spear.
Gave Mythril Shield, Armor, Gloves to Ceodore.
Gave Mythril Helmet, Armor to HM.
Left Mist village to save: 1:03

Up to this point there's little enough danger I could as well single-segment. Not from this point on!!!

Grabbed Sleep Blade partway up, equipped HM
Saved at the top (good thing)
Already used Sleep Blade as an item to help me run from a fight.
Used Sleep Blade on Zombie Infantry twice
Currently waxing moon.
Save just before Waterway: 1:09
mistake: I should've gotten a few Antidotes by now. I didn't go back for them.

Use Sleep Blade (as an item vs. all targets) to help me run from every fight from now on.
This time I didn't get Icebrand. It would only help against the squid and the guards outside Baron, but it might possibly be worth it.

I can see two distinct possible plans for the moon phases from this point on:

Dangerous: Change to Waning (ups normal attacks) while on the map screen just before the last part of the waterway. That makes Edward, the last Zombie Infantry and evil Kain faster, but greatly ups the scariness, especially against the squid and right before.

Safe plan: Enter the last part of the waterway when magic damage is lowered. That makes things much safer and probably makes the squid faster (less healing). You could change to Waning after that if you want.

This time I'm trying dangerous plan. I died several times before reaching the squid.
Spider Silked squid.
Used Hermes Sandals on HM for squid. He attacks, Ceo heals.
Save outside Damcyan: 1:24

Bought more Hi-Potions to be safe (had 7 left)
Used Sleep Blade once against Zombie Infantry
Just healed in first Kain fight
Spider Silked Kain
Watched this chapter's looooong credits
Final time: 1:36 (levels 17 & 16)

I should've finished a boss fight with Ceo dead if it would've leveled up HM one more time.

But, I think 'safe plan' may be a better bet. On Waning Moon you have to heal against Kain after every single attack. I'm going to return to a Waterway save and try the 'safe plan' ...

'safe plan' attempt
Tent once before waterway to make it Full Moon
Tent twice at save point to make it Waxing Moon (lower magic damage, for the squid).
Outside Damcyan time: 1:20
Had bad encounter outside Baron (ran from it) that cost 30 seconds including healing.
Final time: 1:35

Without that bad encounter it may have been 1:34.

Well, I made enough mistakes throughout that below 1:30 (maybe even 1:25) would be good to shoot for.

edit: I forgot to include this, at the end I had left (the 1:35 'safe route' attempt):
8 Potions
7 Hi Potions
11 Phoenix Downs
6 Tents
5 Spider Silks (only used 3)

So I overestimated how many to buy except Hi Potions. A better plan might be to buy 5 Potions, 30 Hi Potions, 5 or less Phoenix Downs, 5 Tents or however many your moon plan calls for, 3 Spider Silks, and 2-5 Antidotes (not sure if Baron sells them early on). Then again choosing 11 is faster than choosing 5 ... maybe you should just get 11 of the cheap stuff. Also, had I sold Knight's Armor after I got Mythril Armor I would've had 4000 gil more right there, or 8500 if I sold a Mythril Armor, so there's way more money available if you can find a use for it.

Ceodore's/Kain's Tale:

Like I said in my (long) last post, I made it to the end of the main story, and I think we can do it with just the one extra fight very early on (though there may be a faster plan).  I hope some of that post is helpful, because I don't think I'm the right person to record the video (for one, I'm slow at navigating RPG menus).  Also I'm hoping messenger or someone will beat my Edge video, because it's messy.

Anyway, now I'm attempting an actual (unrecorded) test speedrun.  This should be fun!  I'm making tons of little mistakes.

I'll share some key save times (I'm saving other places too), and make a few other notes:

Took all Biggs' gear.
Took Wedge's gear besides sword.
Equipped Ceodore.
Fought 1 extra fight after Biggs/Wedge left party to reach level 4.
After Grotto, used Tent to change moon phase.
Save: 0:11

Wedge died in fight to give extra exp. to Ceodore.
Grabbed Hermes Sandals (for squid) in East Tower.
Took all Cecil's, Rosa's & Cid's armor (not weapons).
Save outside Mysidia: 0:32

Grabbed Silver Apple from chest and used it on Ceodore. (probably worth it)
Sold tons of gear; bought (approximately)
5-8 Spider Silks (haven't counted how many I need)
30 Hi Potions
10 Potions
10 Phoenix Downs
10 Tents
Grabbed 2000 gil just before waterway (edit: Don't get this, you don't need it.)
Didn't even heal the mages; I just let them die.
Thankfully New Moon came eventually.
Thanks for the ride, chocobo!
Save outside Mist Cave: 0:44

I put Ceodore in back. (and will do so over and over for the rest of the run)
This is the last stage where the brunt of my between-fight healing will be with magic.
I didn't switch to high damage since it would've taken several switches.
Spider Silked the Tunneler
Between-chapter save: 0:54

Grabbed Mythril Armor on my way back up Mt. Ordeals.
Stole Kain's mythril gear; let him keep Wind Spear.
Gave Mythril Shield, Armor, Gloves to Ceodore.
Gave Mythril Helmet, Armor to HM.
Left Mist village to save: 1:03

Up to this point there's little enough danger I could as well single-segment.  Not from this point on!!!

Grabbed Sleep Blade partway up, equipped HM
Saved at the top (good thing)
Already used Sleep Blade as an item to help me run from a fight.
Used Sleep Blade on Zombie Infantry twice
Currently waxing moon.
Save just before Waterway: 1:09
mistake: I should've gotten a few Antidotes by now.  I didn't go back for them.

Use Sleep Blade (as an item vs. all targets) to help me run from every fight from now on.
This time I didn't get Icebrand.  It would only help against the squid and the guards outside Baron, but it might possibly be worth it.

I can see two distinct possible plans for the moon phases from this point on:

Dangerous: Change to Waning (ups normal attacks) while on the map screen just before the last part of the waterway.  That makes Edward, the last Zombie Infantry and evil Kain faster, but greatly ups the scariness, especially against the squid and right before.

Safe plan: Enter the last part of the waterway when magic damage is lowered.  That makes things much safer and probably makes the squid faster (less healing).  You could change to Waning after that if you want.

This time I'm trying dangerous plan.  I died several times before reaching the squid.
Spider Silked squid.
Used Hermes Sandals on HM for squid.  He attacks, Ceo heals.
Save outside Damcyan: 1:24

Bought more Hi-Potions to be safe (had 7 left)
Used Sleep Blade once against Zombie Infantry
Just healed in first Kain fight
Spider Silked Kain
Watched this chapter's looooong credits
Final time: 1:36 (levels 17 & 16)

I should've finished a boss fight with Ceo dead [u]if[/u] it would've leveled up HM one more time.

But, I think 'safe plan' may be a better bet.  On Waning Moon you have to heal against Kain after every single attack.  I'm going to return to a Waterway save and try the 'safe plan' ...

'safe plan' attempt
Tent once before waterway to make it Full Moon
Tent twice at save point to make it Waxing Moon (lower magic damage, for the squid).
Outside Damcyan time: 1:20
Had bad encounter outside Baron (ran from it) that cost 30 seconds including healing.
Final time: 1:35

Without that bad encounter it may have been 1:34.

Well, I made enough mistakes throughout that below 1:30 (maybe even 1:25) would be good to shoot for.

edit: I forgot to include this, at the end I had left (the 1:35 'safe route' attempt):
8 Potions
7 Hi Potions
11 Phoenix Downs
6 Tents
5 Spider Silks (only used 3)

So I overestimated how many to buy except Hi Potions.  A better plan might be to buy 5 Potions, 30 Hi Potions, 5 or less Phoenix Downs, 5 Tents or however many your moon plan calls for, 3 Spider Silks, and 2-5 Antidotes (not sure if Baron sells them early on).  Then again choosing 11 is faster than choosing 5 ... maybe you should just get 11 of the cheap stuff.  Also, had I sold Knight's Armor after I got Mythril Armor I would've had 4000 gil more right there, or 8500 if I sold a Mythril Armor, so there's way more money available if you can find a use for it.

Sir VG

2009-07-29 08:04:17 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

Yang's Tale:

I'm noticing that Headband, Power Armlet, and Metal Knuckles all give +5 increases each to strength (often multiplier increases too), and Fairy Claws give +3 to speed. edit: Hell Claws gives just +3 strength, and Green Beret gives the same strength boost as Headband plus a stamina boost.

I don't know just how big a difference these would make, nor do I know which of them you normally use. (Kenpo Gi gives a bonus too but I doubt you'll be getting more of those than the one Yang already has.)

edit: I bet you know this, but just in case, there's a shortcut at the south end of Ursula's second room of the forest. Looks like no elements boost or lower damage against Adamantoise.

edit: Do you ride a chocobo to reach Mt. Hobs? I don't know if it's faster.

I know I get a Metal Knuckle, but most everything else I think except Fairy Claws were too far out of the way. I don't take a Chocobo, but it could be worth testing. It is kinda out of the way, since it's to the right of Fabul and Hobs is to the left. Plus I only run into one fight on the way there - 2 attacks from Yang and it's over.

[quote]Yang's Tale:

I'm noticing that Headband, Power Armlet, and Metal Knuckles all give +5 increases each to strength (often multiplier increases too), and Fairy Claws give +3 to speed.  edit: Hell Claws gives just +3 strength, and Green Beret gives the same strength boost as Headband plus a stamina boost.

I don't know just how big a difference these would make, nor do I know which of them you normally use.  (Kenpo Gi gives a bonus too but I doubt you'll be getting more of those than the one Yang already has.)

edit:  I bet you know this, but just in case, there's a shortcut at the south end of Ursula's second room of the forest.  Looks like no elements boost or lower damage against Adamantoise.

edit: Do you ride a chocobo to reach Mt. Hobs?  I don't know if it's faster.[/quote]

I know I get a Metal Knuckle, but most everything else I think except Fairy Claws were too far out of the way.  I don't take a Chocobo, but it could be worth testing.  It is kinda out of the way, since it's to the right of Fabul and Hobs is to the left.  Plus I only run into one fight on the way there - 2 attacks from Yang and it's over.

slowbro

2009-07-29 08:21:38 pm

Wow, if there's just 1 fight then don't take a chocobo (I think). I bet you don't end up with enough money for another Metal Knuckles.

I'll continue updating my previous post as I make progress. I'm about to have a preliminary Main Story time.