Final Fantasy IV: The After Years

2009-09-18 04:23:56 am

You're welcome, though I'm probably giving bad advice Roll Eyes

Your power party does sound like the best choice to me.

Wow, so the crystal enemies are required? That makes a speedrun look a lot different than I thought it would.

Is it true you can buy a supply of Spider Silk in Kaipo? Someone at GameFAQs thought you can. Course I'm a little late mentioning that ...

B12 is good for experience; try confusing the enemies there. Early Depths floors might be better ... The favorite grinding spot at GameFAQs is Depths floors 5-7. The enemies have a lot of HP, but Break beats them.

If you save Asura and Leviathan (ie fight them with Rydia in the party), then once Bahamut loses a certain amount of HP, instead of using Megaflare you get a long cutscene that ends the fight. Course I don't even know if you have to beat Asura and Leviathan at all. (probably yes, from what you told me)

It's well documented at GameFAQs that the game can be beaten with levels in the mid 50s. I would guess you aren't planning to get that high though, but what do I know Smiley

If you let Golbez die vs. the Dark Knight, the ending may possibly be shorter, but of course you'd lose Golbez Sad

Oh, this is totally not helpful, but here are my two finishing parties so far.

Porom, Luca (bad choice), Rosa, Edge, Rydia
Leonora (bad choice), Cecil, Tsukinowa, Ursula, Palom

You're welcome, though I'm probably giving bad advice ::)  Your power party does sound like the best choice to me.

Wow, so the crystal enemies are required?  That makes a speedrun look a lot different than I thought it would.

Is it true you can buy a supply of Spider Silk in Kaipo?  Someone at GameFAQs thought you can.  Course I'm a little late mentioning that ...

B12 is good for experience; try confusing the enemies there.  Early Depths floors might be better ... The favorite grinding spot at GameFAQs is Depths floors 5-7.  The enemies have a lot of HP, but Break beats them.

If you save Asura and Leviathan (ie fight them with Rydia in the party), then once Bahamut loses a certain amount of HP, instead of using Megaflare you get a long cutscene that ends the fight.  Course I don't even know if you have to beat Asura and Leviathan at all.  (probably yes, from what you told me)

It's well documented at GameFAQs that the game can be beaten with levels in the mid 50s.  I would guess you aren't planning to get that high though, but what do I know :)

If you let Golbez die vs. the Dark Knight, the ending may possibly be shorter, but of course you'd lose Golbez :(

Oh, this is totally not helpful, but here are my two finishing parties so far.

Porom, Luca (bad choice), Rosa, Edge, Rydia
Leonora (bad choice), Cecil, Tsukinowa, Ursula, Palom

thri11ki11

Edit history:

thri11ki11: 2009-09-18 08:53:08 am

2009-09-18 05:10:34 am

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

I knew about some of that, but a lot of that is really great info.

I redid the first half of the Tale, and got it down to 0:58. I buy 40 Spider Silks in Kaipo because it's really the last place in the game to do so, and I want to make sure I have plenty (bosses that cast Reflect still are affected). I also buy 20 Phoenix Downs and 20 Hi-Potions. I have money to do this because I sell Golbez's Ancient Sword. I actually equip him with the Recovery Rod found in the Lodestone Cavern because it gives him a +10 to Intelligence and I use him only for spells anyway.

It takes me about 20 minutes to prepare my party for the Gathering. If there's any place I can cut time, it's probably there.

As far as the second half, the moon area, I haven't done much with it yet. I got through the first segment to (and past) Scarmiglione but I went back after that because I knew I could do better at the first half and wanted to play through it again, plus I was saving in the same save spot and couldn't go back and try different things (something I've rectified).

I'll try it both ways with Asura and Leviathan. As far as leveling, I'll have to go through several times and find out when I start losing time with the leveling. I'll level just enough to get through the game, and then I'll go back and level some more and see if it improves the speed with which I can kill things, and if the time saved is greater than the time it took to level then I'll keep tweaking that. It's a balance. I also had the idea (it worked in the original FFIV) to fight the CPU boss for a long time and keep killing off both of the orbs. In FFIV you earned experience for every orb you killed, so if I can keep my party alive and keep killing them I can get a boatload of XP right there, if it even works in this one.

--edit: The CPU boss trick didn't work; it gives a set amount of experience no matter how many times you destroy the attacker and/or defender.

I had every intention of killing off Golbez and replacing him with Cecil when the time came.

Two white mages in that first finishing party? Wow. You must have really been playing it safe Smiley

And I read somewhere that Leonora only does well at higher levels (but it doesn't make any difference to me because I can't use her anyway).

I knew about some of that, but a lot of that is really great info.

I redid the first half of the Tale, and got it down to 0:58.  I buy 40 Spider Silks in Kaipo because it's really the last place in the game to do so, and I want to make sure I have plenty (bosses that cast Reflect still are affected).  I also buy 20 Phoenix Downs and 20 Hi-Potions.  I have money to do this because I sell Golbez's Ancient Sword.  I actually equip him with the Recovery Rod found in the Lodestone Cavern because it gives him a +10 to Intelligence and I use him only for spells anyway.

It takes me about 20 minutes to prepare my party for the Gathering.  If there's any place I can cut time, it's probably there.

As far as the second half, the moon area, I haven't done much with it yet.  I got through the first segment to (and past) Scarmiglione but I went back after that because I knew I could do better at the first half and wanted to play through it again, plus I was saving in the same save spot and couldn't go back and try different things (something I've rectified).

I'll try it both ways with Asura and Leviathan.  As far as leveling, I'll have to go through several times and find out when I start losing time with the leveling.  I'll level just enough to get through the game, and then I'll go back and level some more and see if it improves the speed with which I can kill things, and if the time saved is greater than the time it took to level then I'll keep tweaking that.  It's a balance.  I also had the idea (it worked in the original FFIV) to fight the CPU boss for a long time and keep killing off both of the orbs.  In FFIV you earned experience for every orb you killed, so if I can keep my party alive and keep killing them I can get a boatload of XP right there, if it even works in this one.

--edit: The CPU boss trick didn't work; it gives a set amount of experience no matter how many times you destroy the attacker and/or defender.

I had every intention of killing off Golbez and replacing him with Cecil when the time came.

Two white mages in that first finishing party?  Wow.  You must have really been playing it safe :)  And I read somewhere that Leonora only does well at higher levels (but it doesn't make any difference to me because I can't use her anyway).

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-09-18 12:05:02 pm

2009-09-18 11:39:57 am

I liked my two white mage party Smiley

I wanted to try it that way. It was just a concept party, like having four physical attackers or something. Once we were high level we did great damage with Flare/Leviathan, Holy and Holy.

My other party was all about super-speedy physical attackers Ursula and Tsuk. Ursula is an animal and may be good in NG+. Course dualcasting Palom out-damaged everyone by the end. Yup, Leonora starts learning worthwhile offense around level 75 Roll Eyes

Plus she was slow to get her turn, and she didn't learn Curaga until Subterrane B11. Some say she's the best mage once everyone's at level 99 though.

Anyway, sorry for my off-topic post, and good luck. I'll keep trying to help, but you've got a much firmer handle on this than I do.

edit: In NG+, using Edward as your healer (Salve X-potions, Haste All vs. tough bosses) would be a possibility. Heh.

edit: On the four-boss floors in Depths, after a boss fight one possibility is to use Teleport. You land on Depths B1, a floor with no monsters, and have to walk quite a ways. Then you can use a HP/MP recovery tile, save if necessary, and return to the boss floor. This may well be a bad idea though.

I liked my two white mage party :)  I wanted to try it that way.  It was just a concept party, like having four physical attackers or something.  Once we were high level we did great damage with Flare/Leviathan, Holy and Holy.

My other party was all about super-speedy physical attackers Ursula and Tsuk.  Ursula is an animal and may be good in NG+.  Course dualcasting Palom out-damaged everyone by the end.  Yup, Leonora starts learning worthwhile offense around level 75 ::)  Plus she was slow to get her turn, and she didn't learn Curaga until Subterrane B11.  Some say she's the best mage once everyone's at level 99 though.

Anyway, sorry for my off-topic post, and good luck.  I'll keep trying to help, but you've got a much firmer handle on this than I do.

edit: In NG+, using Edward as your healer (Salve X-potions, Haste All vs. tough bosses) would be a possibility.  Heh.

edit: On the four-boss floors in Depths, after a boss fight one possibility is to use Teleport.  You land on Depths B1, a floor with no monsters, and have to walk quite a ways.  Then you can use a HP/MP recovery tile, save if necessary, and return to the boss floor.  This may well be a bad idea though.

thri11ki11

Edit history:

thri11ki11: 2009-09-18 03:15:51 pm

2009-09-18 01:26:30 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

Unfortunately I can't use Tsuk or Ursula without loading in my old save files.

So here's where I am: I'm in the Depths B5, my time is 2:55. Cecil is still at Level 40, and everyone else is at Level 37.

I tried leveling in B5 for 1/2 hour. By the time the clock read 3:28, Cecil was at Level 41, Edge was at Level 40, and everyone else was at Level 39.

I guess the problem is that I don't have the spells to do this. Rydia hasn't learned Break yet, so I have her use the Faerie Rod to confuse (which works on most anything), and everyone else is throwing Phoenix Downs to keep the others alive and attacking when they have room edgewise to do so. I've got (mostly) the best armor to this point.

I noticed that I'm running into Great Malboros and Goblin Princes quite a bit. Those are enemies that you can fight in the Overworld in the first half, actually. The only problem is that I can only use them to level Rydia and Edge, and Golbez will be hogging XP because I won't be able to beat them without him.

Do you know offhand what level Rydia gets Break at? I was considering grinding on earlier Depths levels where there are no Blue Dragons and the enemies are slightly less vicious, maybe till I get Break if it comes pretty soon.

--edit: I've been thinking about this... I have several options available to me.

---Grind levels before the moon and run through the moon.
-----Pros: Will have the proper spells to deal with the mean monsters near the end.
-----Cons: Only Edge and Rydia will be at a decent level.

---Find a place on the moon to level that is fairly expedient yet won't massacre me.
-----Pros: Will take less time and level everyone equally.
-----Cons: Good luck finding one.

---Keep Golbez alive.
-----Pros: Will have his spells and high health in the party.
-----Cons: I would have to get rid of the weakest character out of my planned party.
-----------I hate to say it, but it's probably Edge; he's fast but he spends more time
-----------on his face than anyone else; Cecil and Kain provide more Bands with others.

---Power level by killing all enemies except one, then killing off all but one or two characters (would try Rydia and/or Rosa).
-----Pros: Will have a great healer and/or magic user.
-----Cons: The weakest party members are more likely to die without support, and
-----------in order to build on this more saves will have to be made, hence more
-----------segments, hence a crappier run.

---Collect Tails before the moon and get two Blue Armors
-----Pros: Blue Armor is strong against Dragons, Machines and Ogres, and under Adamant
-----------is the second best armor in the game. Equipping two guys with the armor may
-----------make it easier for the whole party to level.
-----Cons: It will take time to collect tails and go through Eblan Cave. The Armor may
-----------not help much.

Unfortunately I can't use Tsuk or Ursula without loading in my old save files.

So here's where I am:  I'm in the Depths B5, my time is 2:55.  Cecil is still at Level 40, and everyone else is at Level 37.

I tried leveling in B5 for 1/2 hour.  By the time the clock read 3:28, Cecil was at Level 41, Edge was at Level 40, and everyone else was at Level 39.

I guess the problem is that I don't have the spells to do this.  Rydia hasn't learned Break yet, so I have her use the Faerie Rod to confuse (which works on most anything), and everyone else is throwing Phoenix Downs to keep the others alive and attacking when they have room edgewise to do so.  I've got (mostly) the best armor to this point.

I noticed that I'm running into Great Malboros and Goblin Princes quite a bit.  Those are enemies that you can fight in the Overworld in the first half, actually.  The only problem is that I can only use them to level Rydia and Edge, and Golbez will be hogging XP because I won't be able to beat them without him.

Do you know offhand what level Rydia gets Break at? I was considering grinding on earlier Depths levels where there are no Blue Dragons and the enemies are slightly less vicious, maybe till I get Break if it comes pretty soon.

--edit: I've been thinking about this... I have several options available to me.

---Grind levels before the moon and run through the moon.
-----Pros: Will have the proper spells to deal with the mean monsters near the end.
-----Cons: Only Edge and Rydia will be at a decent level.

---Find a place on the moon to level that is fairly expedient yet won't massacre me.
-----Pros: Will take less time and level everyone equally.
-----Cons: Good luck finding one.

---Keep Golbez alive.
-----Pros: Will have his spells and high health in the party.
-----Cons: I would have to get rid of the weakest character out of my planned party.
-----------I hate to say it, but it's probably Edge; he's fast but he spends more time
-----------on his face than anyone else; Cecil and Kain provide more Bands with others.

---Power level by killing all enemies except one, then killing off all but one or two characters (would try Rydia and/or Rosa).
-----Pros: Will have a great healer and/or magic user.
-----Cons: The weakest party members are more likely to die without support, and
-----------in order to build on this more saves will have to be made, hence more
-----------segments, hence a crappier run.

---Collect Tails before the moon and get two Blue Armors
-----Pros: Blue Armor is strong against Dragons, Machines and Ogres, and under Adamant
-----------is the second best armor in the game.  Equipping two guys with the armor may
-----------make it easier for the whole party to level.
-----Cons: It will take time to collect tails and go through Eblan Cave.  The Armor may
-----------not help much.

thri11ki11

Edit history:

thri11ki11: 2009-09-18 06:47:02 pm

2009-09-18 05:26:04 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

I think I figured out a good strategy. I fight on Depths B5, but I use the Odin summon and the Confuse Rod. I run from Blue Dragons (who always nearly kill me). Any fight with a female warrior in it I use the Confuse Rod, which makes her use a Break spell on either herself or her partner (or both if I'm lucky). Any other fight I keep trying to use Odin, eventually it will work. With good old regular grinding I gained 1-3 levels in 33 minutes. With this new method I gained 5-7 levels in 30 minutes.

I'm not sure if there's a better place or method for this. I did find out that Rydia gains the -aga spells at 41 for Blizz, 42 for Fir, and 43 for Thund, in case anyone cares. When I get additional spells I'll try to keep track of when I get them. I think now that I have all the elemental spells I'll tackle the four fiends of Final Fantasy I.

Right now my time to Depths B5 with the new leveling is 3:25, not horrible but definitely in need of improvement. I'm a bit slow on the menus during boss fights (and let's face it, The Crystals is nothing more than a series of boss fights, one after another after another), but once I get strategies and practice I shouldn't have too much trouble. I can see that I'm going to use a whole BUNCH of DVDs on recording this sucker.

--edit: 4:20 now and I'm on B9. This is a big load of suck. The four bosses on B5 took me a half hour to kill. I got them all in one segment which ended on B9 but now I'm in trouble. King Behemoth meteors me after he dies and I just can't take the damage he deals; my characters' HP aren't high enough to survive. I'm considering leveling again to get HP above 3000 (Kain is almost there, at like 28XX) but DAMN that's a lot of leveling. I beat Astaroth handily and Beelzebub easily, but King B puts the damage on me. I'm thinking next time I'll tackle King B before the other three so that if I fail I don't lose progress. Iron Giant doesn't look like a cakewalk either. I know with Bahamut Megaflare used to be countered with Reflect so I'll try that first, plus I'll try stacking some Shells. Either way, the further I progress into this test run the more I realize what a beast this is going to be, and it's so intimidating I want to go back to the beginning because I'm scared to go further. A 7 hour speedrun just doesn't seem too speedy, and I'll be lucky if I hit THAT.

I think I figured out a good strategy.  I fight on Depths B5, but I use the Odin summon and the Confuse Rod.  I run from Blue Dragons (who always nearly kill me).  Any fight with a female warrior in it I use the Confuse Rod, which makes her use a Break spell on either herself or her partner (or both if I'm lucky).  Any other fight I keep trying to use Odin, eventually it will work.  With good old regular grinding I gained 1-3 levels in 33 minutes.  With this new method I gained 5-7 levels in 30 minutes.

I'm not sure if there's a better place or method for this.  I did find out that Rydia gains the -aga spells at 41 for Blizz, 42 for Fir, and 43 for Thund, in case anyone cares.  When I get additional spells I'll try to keep track of when I get them.  I think now that I have all the elemental spells I'll tackle the four fiends of Final Fantasy I.

Right now my time to Depths B5 with the new leveling is 3:25, not horrible but definitely in need of improvement.  I'm a bit slow on the menus during boss fights (and let's face it, The Crystals is nothing more than a series of boss fights, one after another after another), but once I get strategies and practice I shouldn't have too much trouble.  I can see that I'm going to use a whole BUNCH of DVDs on recording this sucker.

--edit: 4:20 now and I'm on B9.  This is a big load of suck.  The four bosses on B5 took me a half hour to kill.  I got them all in one segment which ended on B9 but now I'm in trouble.  King Behemoth meteors me after he dies and I just can't take the damage he deals; my characters' HP aren't high enough to survive.  I'm considering leveling again to get HP above 3000 (Kain is almost there, at like 28XX) but DAMN that's a lot of leveling.  I beat Astaroth handily and Beelzebub easily, but King B puts the damage on me.  I'm thinking next time I'll tackle King B before the other three so that if I fail I don't lose progress.  Iron Giant doesn't look like a cakewalk either.  I know with Bahamut Megaflare used to be countered with Reflect so I'll try that first, plus I'll try stacking some Shells.  Either way, the further I progress into this test run the more I realize what a beast this is going to be, and it's so intimidating I want to go back to the beginning because I'm scared to go further.  A 7 hour speedrun just doesn't seem too speedy, and I'll be lucky if I hit THAT.

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-09-18 09:00:11 pm

2009-09-18 08:43:13 pm

Ouch. Just like Lord_VG's video of Yang's chapter, the ferocity of the monsters when you're at low levels is surprising me. I probably gave you bad advice with that B5 or Subterrane B12 stuff.

If you need to drop a party member, Edge sounds like the right choice to me. You need Rydia and Rosa, Kain's fast and probably sturdier than Edge, and Cecil's got big advantages I think, like HP and defense and covering people with critical HP. edit: Are you using Edge in the back row with one sword/knife and one boomerang?

Sorry, all I can come up with is to grind more evenly all the way down, ie don't run away from monsters except the killers. But that doesn't sound much like a speedrun.

Good thinking on Odin!

edit: Hmm, collect enough Small Tails for one or two Level Band V2s? Probably not. I'm just brainstorming.

thri11ki11

Edit history:

thri11ki11: 2009-09-19 05:38:42 pm

2009-09-18 09:51:05 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

No, I can't see how you gave me poor advice. What it boils down to is the fastest way to earn huge experience; since I discovered the Odin trick B5 is definitely the right place to use it.

I made it past King Behemoth. My whole party got wiped out except Cecil, who somehow retained around 500 HP. I was curing like mad and I think I used at least four shell spells. I actually also killed the Iron Giant fairly easily.

Bosses on B12 weren't hard, just a little time consuming. I will definitely cut time on the actual run. I spend a bit of time thinking of what I'm doing next, so there are quite a few delays; once I get strategies for each boss down things will be more reflex-powered and less brain-powered.

So now I'm on B14, right before Gilgamesh, and I've got a time of 5:26. Edge and Cecil (I think) have broken Level 50, just from fighting the bosses; it seems like every boss fight nets me a level with 3-5 of the characters. I'm glad I didn't have to dump Edge for Golbez. I'm using him in the front row now, but I put him in back when he had the Rising Sun. Right now I've got him with the Masamune and the Triton Dagger, and once I get the Mutsunokami the dagger will go. He's gotten much better defensively; I had him with some very weak armor for a long time, but eventually I got the Red Jacket and that helped a LOT.

Gilgamesh, Atmos, Ghost Train, Ultros, Bahamut/Mysterious Girl and Creator x 3; those are all the required fights left for me. 8 fights, so it's not THAT bad. I think I have a slim chance of actually finishing with less than 7 hours as long as I don't have to level again. I can't believe the Gathering Tale took less than an hour and this dungeon is going to take 6. I believe I can cut it down to sub six hours after another test run or two, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

I will likely try the tails thing on my next test run. I've got to play around with some other strategies and see where they get me. I will probably try getting the Level Bands once, the Rapid Ring, or maybe Blue Armor; oddly, I'm really interested to see how that armor will help things along.

--edit: Made it to the last save at 6:33, but the final boss is totally destroying me. I can get past the first three forms, but that last one... my levels are Cecil 53, Rosa 49 and the others 51. Worst case I'll have to grind a few more levels.

I actually thought Mysterious Girl/Bahamut were going to be the end of me because her intial Meteor took out everyone instantly, but when I tried again Cecil was left standing with a little more than 200 HP and I was able to (after a LONG time) bring back others and heal so that I could mount an attack. This is the same deal, except the Creator keeps casting Black Hole so I can't Haste, so I can't ever get ahead of him.

--edit 2: Started again from my level grinding spot and spent an additional 16 minutes leveling. I gained 2 more levels with Kain and Rosa, 3 more levels with Rydia and Cecil and a whopping 4 levels with Edge. After being 16 minutes behind my previous time, I've reached floor 20 just before the Mysterious Girl and I'm now 27 minutes ahead of my last time! This can be attributed possibly to a little practice = perfect, but I'd have to believe that I didn't perform Depths B5 to B20 43 minutes faster due to that; a majority had to come from faster fights because of higher levels. Slo, I'm really glad you suggested B5 for leveling because it really paid off. I feel more confident that I can at least complete the run at this rate. Being at B20 at 5:46 instead of 6:13 shows that I've cut a crapload of time, and I'm certain I can knock off the Creator this time.

--edit 3: Finished the game with a final time of 6:57. I was really disappointed at how long it took to defeat the Creator. The last save of the game before fighting him I had a time of 5:56, so between the fight and the ending the run picked up :59. How horrible. Maybe my strategy for fighting him isn't good enough, or maybe he's just built to be tough at lower levels; either way, I need to rethink things. I wanted to shoot for sub 6 hours but if it's going to take a whole hour to run the last segment, I'd be better off setting my goal for sub 6:30. My ending levels were Kain 54, Rosa 50, Edge 53, Rydia 52 and Cecil 53. I noticed that the boss fights went faster the more I leveled; maybe if I spend another 15 minutes leveling I can make them go even faster, and make up for the time I spend? I'll have to try it out.

Sorry this post is so long; I'm using it almost as a diary and a brainstorming session.

No, I can't see how you gave me poor advice.  What it boils down to is the fastest way to earn huge experience; since I discovered the Odin trick B5 is definitely the right place to use it.

I made it past King Behemoth.  My whole party got wiped out except Cecil, who somehow retained around 500 HP.  I was curing like mad and I think I used at least four shell spells.  I actually also killed the Iron Giant fairly easily.

Bosses on B12 weren't hard, just a little time consuming.  I will definitely cut time on the actual run.  I spend a bit of time thinking of what I'm doing next, so there are quite a few delays; once I get strategies for each boss down things will be more reflex-powered and less brain-powered.

So now I'm on B14, right before Gilgamesh, and I've got a time of 5:26.  Edge and Cecil (I think) have broken Level 50, just from fighting the bosses; it seems like every boss fight nets me a level with 3-5 of the characters.  I'm glad I didn't have to dump Edge for Golbez.  I'm using him in the front row now, but I put him in back when he had the Rising Sun.  Right now I've got him with the Masamune and the Triton Dagger, and once I get the Mutsunokami the dagger will go.  He's gotten much better defensively; I had him with some very weak armor for a long time, but eventually I got the Red Jacket and that helped a LOT.

Gilgamesh, Atmos, Ghost Train, Ultros, Bahamut/Mysterious Girl and Creator x 3; those are all the required fights left for me.  8 fights, so it's not THAT bad.  I think I have a slim chance of actually finishing with less than 7 hours as long as I don't have to level again.  I can't believe the Gathering Tale took less than an hour and this dungeon is going to take 6.  I believe I can cut it down to sub six hours after another test run or two, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

I will likely try the tails thing on my next test run.  I've got to play around with some other strategies and see where they get me.  I will probably try getting the Level Bands once, the Rapid Ring, or maybe Blue Armor; oddly, I'm really interested to see how that armor will help things along.

--edit: Made it to the last save at 6:33, but the final boss is totally destroying me.  I can get past the first three forms, but that last one...  my levels are Cecil 53, Rosa 49 and the others 51.  Worst case I'll have to grind a few more levels.

I actually thought Mysterious Girl/Bahamut were going to be the end of me because her intial Meteor took out everyone instantly, but when I tried again Cecil was left standing with a little more than 200 HP and I was able to (after a LONG time) bring back others and heal so that I could mount an attack.  This is the same deal, except the Creator keeps casting Black Hole so I can't Haste, so I can't ever get ahead of him.

--edit 2:  Started again from my level grinding spot and spent an additional 16 minutes leveling.  I gained 2 more levels with Kain and Rosa, 3 more levels with Rydia and Cecil and a whopping 4 levels with Edge.  After being 16 minutes behind my previous time, I've reached floor 20 just before the Mysterious Girl and I'm now 27 minutes ahead of my last time!  This can be attributed possibly to a little practice = perfect, but I'd have to believe that I didn't perform Depths B5 to B20 43 minutes faster due to that; a majority had to come from faster fights because of higher levels.  Slo, I'm really glad you suggested B5 for leveling because it really paid off.  I feel more confident that I can at least complete the run at this rate.  Being at B20 at 5:46 instead of 6:13 shows that I've cut a crapload of time, and I'm certain I can knock off the Creator this time.

--edit 3: Finished the game with a final time of 6:57.  I was really disappointed at how long it took to defeat the Creator.  The last save of the game before fighting him I had a time of 5:56, so between the fight and the ending the run picked up :59.  How horrible.  Maybe my strategy for fighting him isn't good enough, or maybe he's just built to be tough at lower levels; either way, I need to rethink things.  I wanted to shoot for sub 6 hours but if it's going to take a whole hour to run the last segment, I'd be better off setting my goal for sub 6:30.  My ending levels were Kain 54, Rosa 50, Edge 53, Rydia 52 and Cecil 53.  I noticed that the boss fights went faster the more I leveled; maybe if I spend another 15 minutes leveling I can make them go even faster, and make up for the time I spend?  I'll have to try it out.

Sorry this post is so long; I'm using it almost as a diary and a brainstorming session.

slowbro

2009-09-27 09:01:23 pm

Sorry I've disappeared; I'm totally taken in by Katamari Forever for PS3 and I probably will be for a long time.

Keep in mind that this game has quite a long ending, which is where a lot of your time is going. It is possible there may be ways to significantly lengthen or shorten the ending.

But if 3 levels cut your time that nicely, I've gotta guess a few more will be another improvement. Possibly even find an earlier spot to grind a little too, I don't know.

And good luck! It's great you finished the game so quickly, even if it's not SDA-worthy yet. (Of course I don't know if it is.)

slowbro

2009-10-03 04:48:03 pm

Well, I have a PC again now, so I was able to put my :30 SS speedrun of Edge's chapter onto YouTube, in case anyone wants to see it:

part 1
part 2
part 3
part 4

thri11ki11

2009-10-03 06:22:12 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

What went through my mind while watching SlowBro's Edge Speedrun:

-Hey, I appreciate the thanks, but I think YOU were the one who helped ME with this run Smiley

-Man, really bad luck there with the Skeletons attacking Gekkou. What a bunch of crappy misses.
-Likewise with random battles on the Tower of Trials. Hoping this thing gives you a break at some point.
-I take the subordinates in the exact same order. Moon doesn't make much of a difference, does it?
-Tsukinowa vs. the Navy Moths... that was rough. Maybe try the next chest up?
-One wonders why it takes so long to run away from an egg... guess they... have a gravitational pull.
-Very nice Tower of Babil.
-Whoops, almost forgot that Battle Axe? Or were you manipulating a fight?

Overall very good. I don't think it's too far off from submission worthy!

slowbro

2009-10-05 05:53:58 pm

I think the biggest thing that separates that run from submission is the number of tries I've made. I only made about 5 recorded tries, and only one that got to the end. With more tries to improve the luck, I think what I'm doing could reach :29.

No, I wasn't manipulating anything getting the Battle Axe; that was just one of my many mistakes. The Navy Moth fight has gone much better before, but not very often, so if there's a better fight nearby I should probably switch to that.

Sorry to say, I'm not too interested in working on this more. I know it's not SS, but for this stage I think thr1llk1ll's 0:27 is sufficient for now. I thanked you just for being awesome in general regarding this game, not for specific help in that chapter.

messenger

2009-10-05 09:21:29 pm

You might have just given me the umption to give this thing another shot. I liked your run and it is pretty much following the same route I planned. Now that I said something, I might just have to do something Smiley

thri11ki11

Edit history:

thri11ki11: 2009-10-06 09:32:18 am

2009-10-06 07:33:43 am

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

Quote from slowbro:

The Navy Moth fight has gone much better before, but not very often, so if there's a better fight nearby I should probably switch to that.

I unequipped even the weapons when I killed subordinates, relying only on enemies to kill me (it skips the attack animations). I take the fight on the next chest up, there are enemies there that never missed me and dealt far more damage. You might try that next time; I bet you don't run into more random battles between the chests! Wink

Quote from slowbro:

I thanked you just for being awesome in general regarding this game, not for specific help in that chapter.

Awww... that's the nicest thing anyone's said about me in a long time! Maybe you should see the runs first - I'd want proof before giving such praise? Or are you taking my word for it? ....Dangerous...

Quote from messenger:

You might have just given me the umption to give this thing another shot. I liked your run and it is pretty much following the same route I planned. Now that I said something, I might just have to do something Smiley

Get to work, slacker! Grin

[quote="slowbro"]
The Navy Moth fight has gone much better before, but not very often, so if there's a better fight nearby I should probably switch to that.
[/quote]

I unequipped even the weapons when I killed subordinates, relying only on enemies to kill me (it skips the attack animations).  I take the fight on the next chest up, there are enemies there that never missed me and dealt far more damage. You might try that next time; I bet you don't run into more random battles between the chests! ;)

[quote="slowbro"]
I thanked you just for being awesome in general regarding this game, not for specific help in that chapter.
[/quote]

Awww... that's the nicest thing anyone's said about me in a long time! Maybe you should see the runs first - I'd want proof before giving such praise?  Or are you taking my word for it? ....Dangerous...

[quote="messenger"]
You might have just given me the umption to give this thing another shot.  I liked your run and it is pretty much following the same route I planned.  Now that I said something, I might just have to do something :)
[/quote]

Get to work, slacker! ;D

messenger

2009-10-08 07:42:56 pm

Took a shot at Edge's quest today as kind of a test run for my new recording setup. I died after the Belphegmors cause I forgot to heal Smiley

But it recorded pretty good from what I can tell. Anyways, should I be using Active time or Wait time? I"ll go check your run slowbro . . .

Edit: odd I can't find where you change the text / battle speed in the settings, am I missing something?

thri11ki11

2009-10-09 03:13:07 am

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

Use Wait Time.

Regardless of which you use, all action pauses when an attack animation is being played. Active time just means that the creatures' action bars fill when you're selecting items/magic etc. It makes the game more challenging but doesn't make it go any faster.

Text/battle speed settings are right at the top under the active/wait option.

slowbro

2009-10-09 01:08:35 pm

The settings are a very, very good question. I never figured out settings to use, so I never changed them :S

So I won't be any help deciding the best battle speed. Active sounds like suicide against the Flame Beasts.

If my vid reinvigorated messenger's interest in recording this run, then it was well worth it!

messenger

2009-10-15 11:42:56 am

Well after a couple of attempts at Edge's quest I am starting to doubt my belphemjor fight. I could have sworn it was possible to kill one of them in two rounds. I can do like 650 damage with a cross shuriken and 450 with a normal attack which should kill one, but I guess not. Anyone have a good idea of what their HP is? The guides I found say 950 but that is obviously not true. Otherwise I very well might need to use a potion Sad

thri11ki11

2009-10-16 05:55:07 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

In my run, it took me 3 hits to kill the first Belphegor and 2 to kill the second.

The first Belphegor took 464, then 516 (980), then 493 for somewhere between 980 and 1473 HP.
The second Belphegor took 480, then 494 (974).

This leads me to one of two conclusions:
A) The second (lower) Belphegor has 950 HP, but the top one is stronger.

B) My best guess: The Belphegor fight is when you're supposed to get back a subordinate character. I think when you start the fight you hit the Belphegor once, then your subordinate jumps in, and then the fight "restarts" for all intents and purposes. Without the subordinate, the first attack is just a throwaway hit.

TimeSpaceMage

2009-10-17 01:02:55 am

A hat riding a mage?!

I wonder if there's a way to take advantage of that, or skip it by killing one outright with a thrown weapon?
Ahh... I'd love to test this, but the guy whose wifi I used to buy the main game had a falling-out with one of my closer friends, so I don't have wifi access for getting the other chapters.

slowbro

2009-10-17 02:23:15 am

Quote from thri11ki11:

B) My best guess: The Belphegor fight is when you're supposed to get back a subordinate character. I think when you start the fight you hit the Belphegor once, then your subordinate jumps in, and then the fight "restarts" for all intents and purposes. Without the subordinate, the first attack is just a throwaway hit.

I think thr1llk1ll is probably exactly right. In my attempts the first one I attack usually takes three hits and the second one two. I never figured out why, but thr1llk1ll is probably exactly right. (I know for a fact that this is the first fight where a subordinate jumps in, and I know he does it after your first attack.)

(anyone suicidally aggressive can try this fight without ever healing yourself; once in a while all the Belphegors' attempts at normal attacks miss)

thri11ki11

2009-10-17 03:00:18 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

Quote from TimeSpaceMage:

Ahh... I'd love to test this, but the guy whose wifi I used to buy the main game had a falling-out with one of my closer friends, so I don't have wifi access for getting the other chapters.

Boot your friend. Keep the wi-fi. Grin

Quote from slowbro:

(anyone suicidally aggressive can try this fight without ever healing yourself; once in a while all the Belphegors' attempts at normal attacks miss)

This is actually what happened when I got my 0:27 segmented run. It can be manipulated to happen; it's all about how many steps you take before you get there.

messenger

2009-10-18 12:42:42 pm

I also thought the rune armlet helped alot in having enough evasion. thanks alot for the idea, I will test it tonight.

thri11ki11

2009-10-25 01:57:48 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

Any luck on your Edge speedrun, messenger? It's nice to have someone else running this game. I feel like I've been running it into the ground. I've been working entirely segmented, so getting single seg runs going is cool. Is anyone else still working on this?

I got my Ceodore/Kain's Tale storyline down to 1:09 (chopped 3 minutes) and I cut almost a quarter of the time off my Rydia's Tale time (went from 0:46 to 0:36). I'm redoing Yang's Tale now and I think I might be able to get it down another minute.

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2009-10-25 04:34:55 pm

2009-10-25 03:09:39 pm

Quote from thri11ki11:

Rydia's Tale time ( ... 0:36)

Holy #$__>?<!?! Nice!

(forgive my foul language)

edit: Sorry to say I haven't been working on this at all. I've barely ever started up my Wii lately Sad

TimeSpaceMage

2009-10-25 07:44:22 pm

A hat riding a mage?!

Quote from thri11ki11:

Quote from TimeSpaceMage:

Ahh... I'd love to test this, but the guy whose wifi I used to buy the main game had a falling-out with one of my closer friends, so I don't have wifi access for getting the other chapters.

Boot your friend. Keep the wi-fi. Grin

Actually it worked out, because my friend got wi-fi too! X)
Now I have all but the last 2 chapters, and just finished a normal playthrough of Rydia's. I have learned to hate those snakes after wiping several times to them (one was a back attack on the new moon, and another where they paralyzed my party).