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Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/FinalFantasy4.html

Final Fantasy IV (Any %) (Single Segment) [Resets, Large-skip glitches]

Verifier Responses

Quote:
Ok so I've never done a verification before outside of the public short Pitfall II run, so bear with me...


First off, I notice video quality seems a bit off -- it's like it's a bit fuzzy. I imagine this is a result of the TV it was played on combined with it being a SNES game (and possibly because I've been playing the PSP version recently) but it makes it slightly hard to watch.  There also seemed to be an occasionally brightening and darkening -- very minor, but it happens a number of times.
The audio has a very slight hissing sound to it as well, especially when text boxes flash on screen (really apparent when there's no music), but this may just be something only detectable with high quality headphones and is rarely detectable.
This isn't the biggest issue though -- there's a clear audio desync at around Troia (about an hour and twenty minutes in). It's very obvious when opening doors, running away, and so on.
I tested it on VLC and MPC both, and it's exactly the same, so I assume it has to be the video.

Plus there's just a lot of general sloppiness -- menu work isn't 'clean', and it happens a lot, as well as other stuff such as the airship by the Chocobo forest after Zot.
Even if it were just the audio, I can't in good faith reccomend this to be accepted, but the other stuff seals the deal.

Other stuff I noticed....mainly lack of info from the run comments.
-The "infinate money glitch" -- this should probably be explained a bit better, especially as it uses the well known item duplication glitch but done further.
-Is there a reason the dancing dagger can't be used in the WaterHag fight?
-Again, explaining the MP underflow glitch that allows Tellah to cast Meteo would be good.
-And a note maybe on the deal with using mute to counter Golbez's hold?

But yeah, despite the uniqueness of the run, I can't see how the audio issue could let it pass muster at SDA.


Quote:
While I think the A/V is fine for an SNES run, I did also notice the audio desync that occurs about halfway in.  Otherwise, no cheating.

I personally can excuse the menu work, it's not a TAS and people will have flubs in menus, especially with how long the run is and how much stuff is being done in the menu.  I've also seen Brossentia do this run many times.  Also, I don't think lack of information in the run comments would be a reason to reject this, there are other reasons for it.

If it wasn't for the audio desync, I'd give this an accept, but because of it, I'm going to have to reject this.  I'd say that Brossentia needs to just clean up the run a bit more and make sure the A/V stays synced throughout the recording.  It's a shame because it's a really good run.


Then the desync was fixed.

Quote:
So the A/V is fine now, no more audio desync. Also, as an addendum to my previous verification post, I'm still going to not mark the menu work against the player, as I've seen other RPG runs with just as much menu flubbing and they are still accepted. As I said, it's a long run and you can't expect perfect menuing from a human player on such a long run, especially after the number of attempts that have been taken.

I would like to revise my decision to accept for the run. But at the same time, I would say that Brossentia should keep working on improving this, to try to get slightly better menu work and movement. There were a few movement flubs as well, but they are fine with me.


Quote:
First off, that Mist Village glitch - I didn't realize you could do that. Moreover, I didn't realize you could use the Dancing dagger in that manner. It also doesn't trigger Antlion's counter. That is awesome. I ought to try that next time I play FFIV.

The now-infamous MP underflow is utilized and lays waste to everything as long as Tellah is in the party.

As far as I'm concerned, menu errors be damned, because this run contains a game-ending super bug reminiscent of Game Boy Pokemon... The likes of which I still don't understand. Also, upt Co.

Someone should improve this run in the future if there's much to be improved, but there's no reason not to accept this run.


Quote from Verifier 1:
As I said, the flubbing was kind of icing on top of the desyncing, but without it my main concerns are only in the actual description. Yeah the menus could be better (I thought about it and decided it wasn't as bad as I initially thought) and the only real slowness is that one issue with the airship....in a long run like this not a huge thing.
So provided everything about the run is exactly the same outside the audio, I change my mind to accept as well.


Quote:
A/V is fine (post-desync fixing), I concur with the timing of 2:21:26. Solid run despite some menu hiccups, nothing too detrimental since even with upt Co it's a run spanning over two hours.

ept Ac (Accept)


Quote from mikwuyma:
Uyama here because I am so anonymous.

A/V: Looking good. I didn't notice a desync, which means it must be fixed.

Cheating: Yeah, Cid is cheating. He's not allowed to have meteo.

Gameplay:

Overall very good. Most of the movement is very good, and the bad parts are pointed out in the comments. The fights in the run are very good. Overall the luck throughout the run is good, and for the few moments where there was bad luck, Brossentia did a great job of compensating for it.

The menu work required for this run is very demanding and picky, and most of it is pretty good. There are definitely some ugly moments, like the Baron menus which had numerous mistakes like repeating screens and missed inputs, but not really enough to detract from the run.

Anyway, this run has a lot of cool new stuff like Mist Village from the back entrance, memory corruption glitches, and of course, Upt Co! Accept.

You could raise a complaint about the save near the end, but honestly that save might have set up the in-game timer in a good spot so Brossentia didn't have to reset. Whether you can progress or not is dependent on some stupid frame counter in the in-game timer.

Timing:

So the 2:21:06 is timed from selecting new game on frame 1182, to killing Zeromus with Upt Co on frame 508680, which is RTA timing.

SDA is changing timing of RPGs to real-time, but generally SDA timing starts when you can control the character, which occurs on frame 14388, and would make the time 2:17:26, if we wanted to be consistent with other SDA runs.

Personally, I don't care, and I'm willing to go with whatever. It's more food for thought than anything else.


Quote:
So this game is very glitchy I guess.  Only watched Sir_vg ever attempt this run before and seriously who the hell figured out how to do this huge skip to zeromus. 

A/V is fine. 

Never knew about the mist village glitch before.  Then again I haven't really watched these speedruns closely but one thing I do know is that the stair traveling is very time consuming.  Shoutouts to whoever decided to figure out how to glitch this game to hell. 

There's not really much to say except that hopefully this category gets contested soon and that the runner submits and improvement.  As for the menuing it's a long run but it's something that can get better with more attempts.  I'll give this an accept.

ACCEPT


Decision: Accept

Congratulations to Brian 'Brossentia' Cook!
Thread title:  
I want off the ride....
Gratz Brossentia!

Just some knowledge bombs for people.

1. Mist Village skip has been known for a while, but since people never really picked my brains and I avoided resets like the plague, it was pushed aside for a while until Brossentia re-stepped on the technique. It's been known to Japanese runners for years.

2. Same with MP Underflow, which saw lots of use because of its lack of use of resets.

3. Same with the "64 floor room glitch". But these resources were only really pointed out to use by 0xwas and possibly some brossentia digging. Hopefully we can learn/figure out more tech.


Random aside: Waterhag fight with edward is scripted to be 3 hits. Using the dancing dagger would be a time loss. Since edward/rydia tag team the Ant-lion there is no worry about edward missing. If he gets a level the accuracy gain is too huge to not just normal attack 3 times. The only case where dancing dagger would be the better option would be where edward somehow died and didn't get ant-lion exp. And that is highly unlikely.


once again, gratz Brossentia
Edit history:
Brossentia: 2013-05-07 01:49:23 pm
No pain, no gain
Woo! This is pretty exciting, and thanks for adding that information, Rane. Just a few extra notes for everyone:

1. Waterhag has, from what I remember, 45,000 HP. The only way to kill it is to hit it three times, pretty much. Using Dancing Dagger takes more time, so it's faster to just attack.

2. Hey, I'm not Essentia! I've got work to do on menuing. And work, I will do. Honestly, it could take months to get a better run, but I do plan on running it more, especially with SGDQ coming up. Seriously, I'm used to just trying to not throw Baby Moses in the river. Menuing is not my strength, and it'll take a while to eliminate every mistake. I welcome competition--I'm used to running things that no one else wants to run, so please, be willing to risk catching your cart on fire.

3. Notes on how to do the big glitch will be available with the run. I actually don't think there's any risk of permanent damage to the cart, but it can delete saves if bad things happen. Rane believes otherwise, but my cart is running fine even after doing the glitch hundreds of times.

Also, for the brightening and darkening effect... I hate that, and I have no clue why my DVD recorder is doing it. The thing is, I don't have an output for the recorder, only input, and I use a powered splitter. Unless someone has more insight, I have no clue how to help.

Thank you verifiers, and expect an improvement in the months to come!
it may be macrovision. you might google how to disable macrovision (or copy protection in general) for your recorder. usually it's like a stage select code in that you enter a code on your remote and it goes into a debug menu from which you can disable various "features."
Edit history:
Brossentia: 2013-05-07 02:18:38 pm
No pain, no gain
I'll check this out, though I'm not sure this is what's causing that. Generally, when the game screen gets bright, it kicks in recording brighter. You can see it happen around the desert area of the game. Other places don't have any brightness changing through long periods of time. The irregular intervals is what makes me think it might not be something with the programming. However, I'll still look into this--I'd like to get rid of that possibility before dealing with hardware failure.
Quote from Brossentia:

3. Notes on how to do the big glitch will be available with the run. I actually don't think there's any risk of permanent damage to the cart, but it can delete saves if bad things happen. Rane believes otherwise, but my cart is running fine even after doing the glitch hundreds of times.



It's been said before, but it's basically impossible to do actual damage to your cart, because the game data is a ROM. Unless it was somehow doing physical damage yo short out the board somehow (I can't imagine a SNES could do this just by running...), the worst that could happen is a corrupt save.
Now people sometimes think FFVI can be ruined, but what happens there is that it tries to check the save right off....I don't remember if FFIV does this. But this can be fixed by changing the battery (not nessesarily an easy fix, but it's hardly permanant damage either)
I want off the ride....
Quote from Melodia:
Quote from Brossentia:

3. Notes on how to do the big glitch will be available with the run. I actually don't think there's any risk of permanent damage to the cart, but it can delete saves if bad things happen. Rane believes otherwise, but my cart is running fine even after doing the glitch hundreds of times.



It's been said before, but it's basically impossible to do actual damage to your cart, because the game data is a ROM. Unless it was somehow doing physical damage yo short out the board somehow (I can't imagine a SNES could do this just by running...), the worst that could happen is a corrupt save.
Now people sometimes think FFVI can be ruined, but what happens there is that it tries to check the save right off....I don't remember if FFIV does this. But this can be fixed by changing the battery (not nessesarily an easy fix, but it's hardly permanant damage either)

Mileage may vary*,
It might not taste like chicken*,

My experience with 64 rooms glitch, cleared my saves and stopped me from having a functional save function for months. Also, I swear it increased my random encounter rate. and definitely made Baigan a jerk (though i've seen traces of his funky explosion elsewhere... i still haven't for mombomb though).

So, unless someone has see mom bomb explode funky like Baigan's hands can. I think I will stand by my statement.

"USER BEWARE"
No pain, no gain
Wow! This was verified on May 7th. It's now May 18th and up on the front page. Kudos for the big push!

Anyway, the full setup for the glitches are in the comments if anyone else wants to give it a shot.