Final Fantasy Adventure (Seiken Densetsu/Mystic Quest) (GB)

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2015-08-20 12:44:21 am

2015-08-20 12:40:42 am

What's that gemma?

New Warpless record yesterday, 2:03:06 after converting to regular Game Boy speed. Some goofy errors, particularly in the later portions of the game, but in general I had good enemy behavior RNG that kept healing time to a minimum.

Even better, I was recording locally, so I can submit this to SDA.

BOWIEtheHERO

2015-08-20 11:37:58 am

Damn, son. GG.
I got bopped hard Cheesy

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2015-09-11 08:06:00 am

Crow!: 2015-08-20 04:05:40 pm

2015-08-20 04:04:02 pm

What's that gemma?

Some notes I made for trying to get a level up during the Julius fight:

At level 31 it takes 3069 EXP to get to the next level.
At level 32 it takes 3268 EXP to get to the next level.

The bosses grant 960 EXP: Garuda (210) + 3 dragons (250 each)

Below are the EXP values of the late game enemies.
Mirror (223)
Snail (185)
Sword (186)
Gauntlet (100)
Bird man (150)
Wonder (240)
Ninja (230)
Fiend Head (165)
Mammoth (242)

Julius 1 clones are worth 200 each. I should be able to mentally combine those experience numbers into batches of about 400, then collect a little more experience than 5 groups of 400 to be ready to level up during Julius.

[EDIT] Apparently, some bosses don't award their supposed EXP when you kill them. I'll have to check which of the Tower of Gemma bosses this affects. [/EDIT]

revenantkioku

2015-09-01 12:20:04 am

What is the exact method to get the sword Will-Attack glitch? I used to be able to do it and I find myself unable to pull it off now.

BOWIEtheHERO

2015-09-10 09:56:18 pm

This in the Ice caves, yeah?
You have to Flying Sword to the left as you step on the Top Left Ice that sends you down, you have to do it between half tiles.

I can't fully explain RIGHT now, as it's late, but let me know if that helped, and I'll come back and explain fully if not Tongue

revenantkioku

2015-09-10 10:20:37 pm

Ice caves, yeah.

Thanks! I think I understand. I'll give it a shot tonight.

Crow!

2015-09-10 10:32:02 pm

What's that gemma?

If you get stuck in the wall after you transition to the right, you can walk downward just before you walk off the screen to prevent that. The farthest half-tile in each of the four cardinal directions is always empty, even if there appears to be a wall there.

revenantkioku

2015-09-10 10:42:40 pm

Thanks, that was my other problem, haha. In the off chance I actually did pull off the trick, I would often end up stuck in the wall.

revenantkioku

Edit history:

revenantkioku: 2015-09-11 04:37:04 am

revenantkioku: 2015-09-11 04:36:55 am

revenantkioku: 2015-09-11 04:20:22 am

2015-09-11 04:06:47 am

Never mind. Saw Bowie in chat. Hold left. Press down if necessary. I THINK I GOT IT NOW.

Attachment:

EyeTV スナップショット[1].jpg

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2015-10-12 10:07:24 am

2015-10-12 10:06:28 am

What's that gemma?

I was watching Baku_Zero run SD1 today and saw a neat trick in the ice room just before the Iflyte fight. He made a single snowman, pushed it onto the lower button tile, then pushed it all the way up to the upper wall (on top of where the stairs will spawn), and attacked it with the Morning Star. This made the snowman slide to the left, and the stairs appeared for some reason.

BOWIEtheHERO

2015-10-25 06:10:45 pm

Yeah, I activated that once, didn't know how I did it. If it has a set up, that's really handy. Good ol' Baku Cheesy

Lhexa

2016-04-16 09:45:03 pm

Hey Crow, I saw your new record on my favorite Game Boy game! FFA was one of the games I used to fantasize about speedrunning.

The news post mentioned the neat fact that physical and magical routing both produce fast times. I'm resurrecting this thread to say that, as a verifier, I would support a category split between the two. (But if you did that, please notify me if you submit such a thing, because I don't look at the verification list regularly.)

Crow!

2016-04-17 04:52:26 pm

What's that gemma?

Defining categories like that is much more of a Japanese approach to speed running than a western one. If you'd like to see a good physical strats run, check out Bowie's work.

I'm not sure where his PB video has gone - I can't find the highlight on Twitch. A slightly older one is here: https://www.twitch.tv/bowiethehero/v/43696457

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2016-04-30 06:49:47 pm

Crow!: 2016-04-30 04:34:43 pm

Crow!: 2016-04-30 04:34:02 pm

Crow!: 2016-04-30 01:43:49 pm

2016-04-30 01:43:03 pm

What's that gemma?

I've been doing some investigation into both the Any% and the Warpless categories. Here are some results:

------
Glitched Equipment:

The strength of glitched equipment is determined by the slot in your inventory where it was when it got glitched. The usual (upper right) slot is worth 11 Defense. The unglitched Bronze Helmet and Armor are each worth 2 Defense.

------
Julius 1 Math - Defense

[MAJOR EDIT] The math here was apparently wrong. The issue is that damage is much more random than I thought - apparently, damage is increased by up to 25%, AFTER damage is reduced. (As a side note, this also means that armor is about 25% more effective than the numbers would otherwise suggest). The below data has now been fixed to be (hopefully) more correct.

Julius 1's Nukes deal 99 base damage of type 7. The Dragon Shield and Aegis Shield will block them. Silver Armor reduces its damage by 25%, before Defense is applied (i.e. 74 base damage). Direct contact with him deals 160 damage.

Damage randomization increases damage output by up to ~25% of the damage received (i.e. post-mitigation). Ways to survive a highest-damage-roll include:
- 27 Stamina and no glitched equipment
- 25 Stamina and a glitched helmet
- 23 Stamina and glitched both helmet and armor

Killing Walruses in a reasonable period of time seems to require at least 4 Power levels before heading to the Lorim snowfield. If you take 5 Power levels and the rest Stamina, you'll hit 27 Stamina at level 16. The glitched helmet would allow for a level 15 finish. Glitching both the helmet and the armor allows a level 14 finish.

------
Julius 1 Math - Offense

Julius 1's clones have up to 320 HP each, and 70 Defense. The XCalibr has a stupid abbreviation and 85 Attack. The Flying Sword Attack deals double damage, but the doubling is done post-defense. The return trip of a Flying Sword Attack is worth half as much. So, after doing some algebra, here are the Power cutoffs to kill Julius in certain numbers of attacks:

- 1.5 attacks (i.e. both parts of the flying sword attack): 92 Power
- 2 attacks: 65 Power
- 2.5 attacks: 49 Power
- 3 attacks: 39 Power
- 3.5 attacks: 31 Power
- 4 attacks: 25 Power
- 4.5 attacks: 21 Power
- 5 attacks: 17 Power
- 5.5 attacks: 14 Power
- 6 attacks: 12 Power

Keep in mind that the return trip from the sword counts for half an extra attack, and that enemies can spawn with a bit less than max HP, and that your attacks (like enemies' attacks) can deal up to about 25% extra damage randomly. The listed numbers are for the worst-case scenario.

A level 16 finish with no glitched equipment will have 21 Power, which requires 4 attacks on the Julius clones, plus either some RNG or a hit from the retreating part of the sword attack. Each additional level you grind before fighting effectively grants +3 Power (convert one Stamina level to a Power level, and the extra level is itself in Power). So, a level 17 finish would (usually) kill Julius clones in 4 hits, while a level 19 finish would (usually) kill in 3 hits plus a retreating hit.

Leveling up Will effectively costs 2 points of Power for 1 point in Will (you're replacing a Power level up with a Will level up). At the levels we complete the game, each point of Will reduces our charge-up time by 5-6%.

------
Davias

Davias is at present a pain for the Magic route, necessitating a Nectar drop to complete in any sort of reasonable time. However, it turns out that the detachable fireballs (not the ones in his barrier, but the ones that shoot out at you) are of type 7, and are therefore resisted by the Silver Armor (and Helmet, though that's out of the way). So, with either Flame (dropped by Mummies) or Blaze (bought in the Magic shop), Davias can be killed in just a few charged attacks by intentionally taking a fireball hit, walking into the center of the arena, shooting, then retreating.

Davias might die in 3 Flame attacks depending on damage rolls, but he will definitely die in 3 Blazes. There is a risk that Lester will ruin the attacks by overwriting them with his own, unfortunately.

I'll need to check whether this is faster or slower than the Chain + Nectar strategy, and I'll have to measure out how much time having a Nectar for the Golem fight saves.

------
Glitched Equipment at Wendel

A minor detour at Wendel can glitch the helmet and armor. The helmet will be useful through the Jadd Gold helmet purchase, and the armor will be useful until shopping at Watts. The physical attack route can consider using a glitched armor instead of equipping the Silver armor, which would free up money to buy the Silver sword instead.

The Any% route can take a ~2.5 minute detour to acquire the glitched armor (and helmet, if you skipped that) at Wendel. Getting armor alone is clearly inferior to getting an extra level up. Getting the armor AND helmet (i.e. you had gone through the dungeons helmetless) is worth about 2 level ups... and I'm not sure how that compares to 2.5 minutes. It's probably worse?

I've been doing some investigation into both the Any% and the Warpless categories.  Here are some results:

------
Glitched Equipment:

The strength of glitched equipment is determined by the slot in your inventory where it was when it got glitched.  The usual (upper right) slot is worth 11 Defense.  The unglitched Bronze Helmet and Armor are each worth 2 Defense.

------
Julius 1 Math - Defense

[MAJOR EDIT] The math here was apparently wrong.  The issue is that damage is much more random than I thought - apparently, damage is increased by up to 25%, AFTER damage is reduced.  (As a side note, this also means that armor is about 25% more effective than the numbers would otherwise suggest).  The below data has now been fixed to be (hopefully) more correct.

Julius 1's Nukes deal 99 base damage of type 7.  The Dragon Shield and Aegis Shield will block them.  Silver Armor reduces its damage by 25%, before Defense is applied (i.e. 74 base damage).  Direct contact with him deals 160 damage.

Damage randomization increases damage output by up to ~25% of the damage received (i.e. post-mitigation).  Ways to survive a highest-damage-roll include:
- 27 Stamina and no glitched equipment
- 25 Stamina and a glitched helmet
- 23 Stamina and glitched both helmet and armor

Killing Walruses in a reasonable period of time seems to require at least 4 Power levels before heading to the Lorim snowfield.  If you take 5 Power levels and the rest Stamina, you'll hit 27 Stamina at level 16.  The glitched helmet would allow for a level 15 finish.  Glitching both the helmet and the armor allows a level 14 finish.

------
Julius 1 Math - Offense

Julius 1's clones have up to 320 HP each, and 70 Defense.  The XCalibr has a stupid abbreviation and 85 Attack.  The Flying Sword Attack deals double damage, but the doubling is done post-defense.  The return trip of a Flying Sword Attack is worth half as much.  So, after doing some algebra, here are the Power cutoffs to kill Julius in certain numbers of attacks:

- 1.5 attacks (i.e. both parts of the flying sword attack): 92 Power
- 2 attacks: 65 Power
- 2.5 attacks: 49 Power
- 3 attacks: 39 Power
- 3.5 attacks: 31 Power
- 4 attacks: 25 Power
- 4.5 attacks: 21 Power
- 5 attacks: 17 Power
- 5.5 attacks: 14 Power
- 6 attacks: 12 Power

Keep in mind that the return trip from the sword counts for half an extra attack, and that enemies can spawn with a bit less than max HP, and that your attacks (like enemies' attacks) can deal up to about 25% extra damage randomly.  The listed numbers are for the worst-case scenario.

A level 16 finish with no glitched equipment will have 21 Power, which requires 4 attacks on the Julius clones, plus either some RNG or a hit from the retreating part of the sword attack.  Each additional level you grind before fighting effectively grants +3 Power (convert one Stamina level to a Power level, and the extra level is itself in Power).  So, a level 17 finish would (usually) kill Julius clones in 4 hits, while a level 19 finish would (usually) kill in 3 hits plus a retreating hit.

Leveling up Will effectively costs 2 points of Power for 1 point in Will (you're replacing a Power level up with a Will level up).  At the levels we complete the game, each point of Will reduces our charge-up time by 5-6%.

------
Davias

Davias is at present a pain for the Magic route, necessitating a Nectar drop to complete in any sort of reasonable time.  However, it turns out that the detachable fireballs (not the ones in his barrier, but the ones that shoot out at you) are of type 7, and are therefore resisted by the Silver Armor (and Helmet, though that's out of the way).  So, with either Flame (dropped by Mummies) or Blaze (bought in the Magic shop), Davias can be killed in just a few charged attacks by intentionally taking a fireball hit, walking into the center of the arena, shooting, then retreating.

Davias might die in 3 Flame attacks depending on damage rolls, but he will definitely die in 3 Blazes.  There is a risk that Lester will ruin the attacks by overwriting them with his own, unfortunately.

I'll need to check whether this is faster or slower than the Chain + Nectar strategy, and I'll have to measure out how much time having a Nectar for the Golem fight saves.

------
Glitched Equipment at Wendel

A minor detour at Wendel can glitch the helmet and armor.  The helmet will be useful through the Jadd Gold helmet purchase, and the armor will be useful until shopping at Watts.  The physical attack route can consider using a glitched armor instead of equipping the Silver armor, which would free up money to buy the Silver sword instead.

The Any% route can take a ~2.5 minute detour to acquire the glitched armor (and helmet, if you skipped that) at Wendel.  Getting armor alone is clearly inferior to getting an extra level up.  Getting the armor AND helmet (i.e. you had gone through the dungeons helmetless) is worth about 2 level ups... and I'm not sure how that compares to 2.5 minutes.  It's probably worse?

BOWIEtheHERO

2016-04-30 05:14:29 pm

Sick work on the damage ratios and Stamina/Power specifics, will work nicely as I reroute my levelling.

As for the item slots, glad that was clarified. I knew they had a difference, but the actuality of the difference in each was unknown to me. Thanks for confirming it.

and the Wendel glitch over Helm at the start is what I'm going to be trying on my warpless runs coming up. I reckon the Sub 2 will be a lot freer if we save that 2 minutes at the start, and get lucky to continue without losing too much time.
I tested how long it would take to defer from the normal path, buy both pieces of equipment, glitch and get back, which is about 26 seconds, and would make Silver mine Free as hell as well, so potentially it would divide by zero on that count, as you'd not have to cure nearly as much.

This would be fairly beneficial to both builds. Which is nice.

And yeah, currently looking at a Levelling buil to 17, but if I can reduce to 15 (oor 16 for Power safety) that would save another chunk of time to the already 2 minutes saved from reducing 19 to 17. Sub 30 is looking even more doable. Just need to execute it.

Race is on boys. Let's get the Sub 2 and Sub 30. For great justice!

[color=green]Sick work on the damage ratios and Stamina/Power specifics, will work nicely as I reroute my levelling.

As for the item slots, glad that was clarified. I knew they had a difference, but the actuality of the difference in each was unknown to me. Thanks for confirming it.

and the Wendel glitch over Helm at the start is what I'm going to be trying on my warpless runs coming up. I reckon the Sub 2 will be a lot freer if we save that 2 minutes at the start, and get lucky to continue without losing too much time.
I tested how long it would take to defer from the normal path, buy both pieces of equipment, glitch and get back, which is about 26 seconds, and would make Silver mine Free as hell as well, so potentially it would divide by zero on that count, as you'd not have to cure nearly as much.

This would be fairly beneficial to both builds. Which is nice.

And yeah, currently looking at a Levelling buil to 17, but if I can reduce to 15 (oor 16 for Power safety) that would save another chunk of time to the already 2 minutes saved from reducing 19 to 17. Sub 30 is looking even more doable. Just need to execute it.

Race is on boys. Let's get the Sub 2 and Sub 30. For great justice![/color]

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2016-04-30 06:53:42 pm

Crow!: 2016-04-30 06:53:20 pm

2016-04-30 06:50:31 pm

What's that gemma?

I have edited my previous post, hopefully making it more... correct. Damage randomness is more severe than I previously realized. (Incidentally, this does mean that you can sometimes survive a hit despite having slightly less stamina than listed, but this is adding even more dice to an already frustrating RNG category).

It also means that you can often kill Julius clones a bit easier than what is listed. On average, you're probably dealing 12% more damage (post defense) than what the above calculations assume (basically, I'm assuming you get zero bonus damage with each hit, but you can get up to 25%).