FFXII - New Run Complete!

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2014-06-26 08:39:31 pm

Youkai: 2014-06-26 07:44:02 pm

Youkai: 2014-06-26 07:40:05 pm

2014-06-26 07:35:46 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Freddeh how is it that you are able to one-shot the slimes with Penelo when you get there? If I remeber correctly neither of Ashe or Penelo could one-shot them. They usually left the slime at like 5%. Is it because you have magic armor on? I am still naked at that point in the game on my run.

EDIT: I'm also wondering if it might be worth it to go to lvl22 on Dustia 2. LP and Gil are super tight on this run. I don't think it's necessary to go to 22 but I think it might make my hate life less during attempts. I wonder how much time that would cost.

EDIT 2: Level 20-21 takes 3 minutes so I guess it would take at least that long to get one more level. I'm not sure I can justify adding 3+ minutes to the run :/ I guess it will depend on how the rest of this test run goes. I'm kind of afraid of when I get to the top of Pharos.

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2014-06-26 08:54:48 pm

2014-06-26 08:53:50 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Hey guys any thoughts on how much 2 ruby rings helps? My current plan doesn't include getting them. I'm wondering if it's worth doing half a second round of jellies. I'm a little curious if the ruby rings in addition to the extra LP might cover the time it would take to farm the Gil for them. If I do some partial round of jellies instead of going to 22 on Dustia I'll get more LP and gil at the expense of slightly more time.

Also does your reflect timer not count down when you have the ring equipped?

Youkai

2014-06-26 10:17:35 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ok guys. Made it to the Ridorana Cataract on my second test playthrough. Didi a little better luck manipulation of Dustia this time and at this point I have 16 Hi-Potions and 16X-Potions.

So now the real question is is it worth it to do more jellies for the LP and gil. I don't have reflect rings, or a leather hat for the HP to this point; that should make things interesting without bubble :/

I guess I should probably see if I can finish it out as under-equipped as I am. At this point I think I have a/l the licenses that I must get, but I haven't gotten any magic lore for Ashe/Penelo and Fran only has two quickenings so that might make the bridge sequence hairy.

Freddeh

2014-06-28 02:22:38 am

Yeah, Penelo with magic armor (and flame staff) is able to 1-shot slimes, but Ashe without magic armor (with flame staff) is usually not able to 1-shot them in my experience. So yeah, you pretty much need at least one set of wizard's armor.

I'm not sure if Vaan can still immobilize shemhazai at lvl 22, you'd have to ask Nitrodon/test that, but I believe thats the reason we stopped at 21 before. In addition it would probably be at least 8-9 more dustias to hit 22, which is a solid 3 minutes extra. Not too bad and will help with money, but the above issue is the main reason you don't want to hit 22 I believe. You're better off just doing dustia as many times as you have patience for until you get a really good 45k+ run.

Ruby rings are pretty helpful in letting you not have to recast reflect (saves casting time on dispels and re-reflects primarily), saving at least a minute over the course of the endgame. I believe reflect doesn't tick down if you have a ruby ring equipped yeah, i had cast reflect on accident and it was still on after unequipping my ring once. I assume this is to let you get extra lp from GAs.

Thats way more hi-potions than you need. You could have a full 11 less and still be fine. I usually buy around 31 at jellies and that lasts me for the rest of the game (and i usually have at least a few extra). I buy 16 PDs usually as well and thats more than you actually need. I only get that much as safety in case something goes wrong, i've ended the game with 9-10 before. You can probably get away with like 8-9 after jellies and be fine. Moral of the story: Don't overspend on potions, a lot of damage can be either healed by cure or avoided altogether.

Fran should be able to afford all 3 quickenings, but probably not any channelings without the second round of jellies. You're only missing ~110 lp from the SS run baseline, and honestly, you can probably afford killing ~130-140 (1 or 2 more groups) to make LP a bit easier. You'll also have to spend less time grinding jellies for drop luck, as you'll usually get all 99 from doing that many.

As far as gil is concerned: How much were you manipulating the chests/steal luck? Things like the Megalixir from stillshrine and the Ruby ring from Bergan are HIGHLY (and easily) worth manipulating. Bergan can just be the start of the long segment run through mosphorian, salikawood, and phon coast. The less important, but still useful things to get from chests include the Glacial Staff on the way to Mt Bur-Omisace, the Gaia Hat from Ahrimans room, and the Black Mask from Great Crystal. Also, picking up/keeping at least a couple ethers from early game and salikawood will help ensure that fran has enough mp to finish pharos first ascent.

Yeah, Penelo with magic armor (and flame staff) is able to 1-shot slimes, but Ashe without magic armor (with flame staff) is usually not able to 1-shot them in my experience. So yeah, you pretty much need at least one set of wizard's armor.

I'm not sure if Vaan can still immobilize shemhazai at lvl 22, you'd have to ask Nitrodon/test that, but I believe thats the reason we stopped at 21 before. In addition it would probably be at least 8-9 more dustias to hit 22, which is a solid 3 minutes extra. Not too bad and will help with money, but the above issue is the main reason you don't want to hit 22 I believe. You're better off just doing dustia as many times as you have patience for until you get a really good 45k+ run.

Ruby rings are pretty helpful in letting you not have to recast reflect (saves casting time on dispels and re-reflects primarily), saving at least a minute over the course of the endgame. I believe reflect doesn't tick down if you have a ruby ring equipped yeah, i had cast reflect on accident and it was still on after unequipping my ring once. I assume this is to let you get extra lp from GAs.

Thats way more hi-potions than you need. You could have a full 11 less and still be fine. I usually buy around 31 at jellies and that lasts me for the rest of the game (and i usually have at least a few extra). I buy 16 PDs usually as well and thats more than you actually need. I only get that much as safety in case something goes wrong, i've ended the game with 9-10 before. You can probably get away with like 8-9 after jellies and be fine. Moral of the story: Don't overspend on potions, a lot of damage can be either healed by cure or avoided altogether.

Fran should be able to afford all 3 quickenings, but probably not any channelings without the second round of jellies. You're only missing ~110 lp from the SS run baseline, and honestly, you can probably afford killing ~130-140 (1 or 2 more groups) to make LP a bit easier. You'll also have to spend less time grinding jellies for drop luck, as you'll usually get all 99 from doing that many.

As far as gil is concerned: How much were you manipulating the chests/steal luck? Things like the Megalixir from stillshrine and the Ruby ring from Bergan are HIGHLY (and easily) worth manipulating. Bergan can just be the start of the long segment run through mosphorian, salikawood, and phon coast. The less important, but still useful things to get from chests include the Glacial Staff on the way to Mt Bur-Omisace, the Gaia Hat from Ahrimans room, and the Black Mask from Great Crystal. Also, picking up/keeping at least a couple ethers from early game and salikawood will help ensure that fran has enough mp to finish pharos first ascent.

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2014-06-28 11:01:23 am

Youkai: 2014-06-28 11:00:06 am

Youkai: 2014-06-28 10:49:16 am

Youkai: 2014-06-28 10:46:43 am

2014-06-28 10:46:02 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ok then I'll have to change my early game route to get Wizards armor. Basch can immobilize Shemhazai at lvl 30 if he has no magic lore (Vaan 26); at least that's what Nitro told me a long time ago.

Yeah I did something stupid with Fran's licenses on this practice run. She can get all three quickenings in time so that shouldn't be an issue.

I didn't know you could steal a ring from Bergan I was planning on that segment starting at the stillshrine and going all the way to the save before mandys but maybe I'll split it in two so I can manipulate a ring from him. If I'm super awesome about my Gil farming I might be able to afford one ring. I'm definitely manipulating the Megalixer so I can sell it for the gil. The glacial staff is at the end of a jelly farming segment so I don't think that is worth manipulating unless it happens to be there. I'll be manipulating the black mask too since I save before Tyrant.

I don't think I'll be doing Dustia to 22 or two rounds of jellies so long as beating it is possible without doing that. What's the point of re-running the game if I don't really crush it? So far I have gotten up Pharos to Fenrir but I haven't fought him yet. We will see how everything goes when I get to the top.

EDIT: 45k+ on Dustia? Is that possible? That would be 85 loot units. A Book = 1 unit, any staffs after the first 3 = 2 units (they sell for basically twice the value of a book). I'm not sure that is possible in 47 kills. My current goal is 60 units against Dustia which is only 31k. If I really push it I might be able to get 70 untis.

Ok then I'll have to change my early game route to get Wizards armor. Basch can immobilize Shemhazai at lvl 30 if he has no magic lore (Vaan 26); at least that's what Nitro told me a long time ago.

Yeah I did something stupid with Fran's licenses on this practice run. She can get all three quickenings in time so that shouldn't be an issue.

I didn't know you could steal a ring from Bergan I was planning on that segment starting at the stillshrine and going all the way to the save before mandys but maybe I'll split it in two so I can manipulate a ring from him. If I'm super awesome about my Gil farming I might be able to afford one ring. I'm definitely manipulating the Megalixer so I can sell it for the gil. The glacial staff is at the end of a jelly farming segment so I don't think that is worth manipulating unless it happens to be there. I'll be manipulating the black mask too since I save before Tyrant.

I don't think I'll be doing Dustia to 22 or two rounds of jellies so long as beating it is possible without doing that. What's the point of re-running the game if I don't really crush it? So far I have gotten up Pharos to Fenrir but I haven't fought him yet. We will see how everything goes when I get to the top.

EDIT: 45k+ on Dustia? Is that possible? That would be 85 loot units. A Book = 1 unit, any staffs after the first 3 = 2 units (they sell for basically twice the value of a book). I'm not sure that is possible in 47 kills. My current goal is 60 units against Dustia which is only 31k. If I really push it I might be able to get 70 untis.

Freddeh

2014-06-28 01:57:48 pm

Its rare, but all of us have seen 45k+ dustia runs. I'm not saying its not going to be a grind, but its definitely possible. I've gotten 35k in 47 kills already. Also, you only need 2 flame staves, not 3 (You only use vaans through vossler, and then he doesn't really cast anything the rest of the game).

If you're not getting bubble Penelos LP shouldn't be an issue at all, since you can save almost all of the lp lost from not getting AM4 and AM5 (use firaga on birds, not death). Ashe's lp may still be an issue, but the solution I've already have been thinking of using is getting shemhazai on Ashe instead of Famfrit: Neither she nor Basch use enough MP for them to miss the mana lost. That should set up both of your casters with enough lp to get the magick lores needed.

sk84uhlivin

2014-06-28 02:00:48 pm

The highest I've heard of is around ~54k from Nitrodon. But yeah, unfortunately the range of Dustia farming gil is between 18k - 54k.

Youkai

2014-06-28 09:27:00 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ok then cool beans. I guess I'll shoot for at least 75 loot units which should be around 38k. I still need to finish out through Pharos at least then I'll need to do one more practice run through the game. This time I'll buy some armor so I can one-shot jellies.

AlecK47

2014-06-28 09:58:48 pm

From a segmented perspective, 38k should be easy. I've had 4x flame staff drops around chain 30 as well.

Youkai

2014-06-28 10:49:23 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I got past Hashmel. Time for the final boss test run. Speaking of Hashmel what do you guys do about Disease? I can't imagine your run just ends if you get hit with it.

In my next test run I'll hopefully have enough gil for a Pirate hat too. That would make my life a little easier.

Freddeh

2014-06-28 11:09:08 pm

Hashmal can disease you? O.o. Use a remedy is the easy solution. Past that you don't really have much of a choice other than resetting.

Youkai

2014-06-28 11:48:47 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Lol. It seems that he can. Both Basch and Reddas were hit with disease in my practice attempts. It's going to be really shitty to climb all of Pharos only to get to Hashamel and get diseased and die Sad

Freddeh

2014-06-30 02:41:07 pm

just had only 16.5k gil after dustia last night...and that was with 5 staff drops :\. I only had like 25 books lol.

Youkai

2014-06-30 03:29:43 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ouch. That's brutal. Is that even enough to get to Jellies?

Freddeh

2014-06-30 03:41:40 pm

Not without really good chest luck and taking far too long farming alraunes. I just reset lol.

Youkai

2014-06-30 07:25:54 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Good news and bad news. Good news is I got to the top of Pharos and battles went as planned until Famfrit. Bad news is I can't beat famfrit. Without bubble I can't just take the hit on Briny Cannonade. I think I'm going to have to put Viking Coat into my plan; the good news is it's on the same tile as Pirate Hat so it won't cost me LP. What is the current method for dealing with that attack in SS runs? Do you just tank it with bubble?

Starting a new practice run through. Hopefully after this one I'll have it laid out to start attempts.

Freddeh

Edit history:

Freddeh: 2014-07-01 03:38:31 am

Freddeh: 2014-07-01 03:37:55 am

2014-07-01 03:30:46 am

You can actually recover from Basch dying. Just swap in vaan with a mirror mail on to finish famfrit, then PD basch and kite around a pillar.

Usually though, yes, i just tank it with Bubble :P. I suppose you could also try picking up shell...

Youkai

2014-07-03 11:52:45 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Dude. Stealing the ring from Bergan is a pain in the ass. What is the percentage for a rare steal?

Freddeh

2014-07-03 11:57:06 pm

Pretty low, fortunately Ruby Ring is an Uncommon steal ^^

I think uncommon is like 10% base.

sk84uhlivin

2014-07-03 11:58:55 pm

Are you saving at Bur-Omisace for this segment?

Youkai

2014-07-07 08:42:17 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Yeah. I'll have to save after the Stillshrine to manipulate a ring from Bergan.

Toothache

2014-07-07 09:41:04 pm

Let the music play!

One thing that might be worth considering in Segment 1 is to grab the Phoenix Down chest you run right past in Lowtown, giving you 4 Dustia kills for the first round, the extra level might help speed up some of the early bosses a significant amount, and it only takes a few seconds to grab

Youkai

2014-07-07 09:42:56 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I'm going to be doing 8 Dustia in round 1. It will require picking up some chests and a tiny bit of luck manipulation in segment 1 but I shouldn't have too much trouble getting enough gil to buy the needed PD's

Freddeh

2014-07-08 12:03:33 am

Yeah, it really doesn't take many drops to ensure you have enough for dustia 1, and honestly, you can probably sell the mythril sword to ensure that you do get it even if you get near nothing (which will save time). The sword is only really useful for making up for bad luck when knocking yourself down for dustias, which is not an issue if you're already manipulating for both of them anyway.

Toothache

2014-07-08 02:28:38 am

Let the music play!

I make it so far:

Initial Gil: 150
Penelo's Equipment: 200
Orrachea Armlet: 125
Total: 475

4 PDs cost 1000 gil (250 each), plus 1 from chest plus 3 you get normally. So you're looking to gain 525 gil before meeting Dustia. The Mythril Sword adds 150 towards that, but still leaves quite a lot to gain.