FFXII - New Run Complete!

2014-06-04 06:32:51 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Oh man. New developments. Arg. Keep this up and I'm going to be tempted to re-visit my segmented run :/

2014-06-04 07:12:49 pm

The recent stuff has been for SS/RTA runs, obviously, but I did work on a segmented route earlier and would be perfectly willing to help with any new segmented routing. Regardless, I'd recommend checking out Emanon's run that Freddeh linked (I think on the previous page), because any good segmented run would almost certainly use a lot of his strats in the early game that we aren't using (at least not yet). I'm not sure if doing only one round of Jellies (like I had in my previous segmented work) is feasible with those strats, but it might be - you'd be fine for gil, but quite possibly short on LP.

Also we have a skype group for FFXII runners now, so we could add you in there if you want. Races to Belias like the one that just happened for FF Fridays may be a semi-regular thing for us now, and maybe even full game runs once a few more of us get the whole route down.

2014-06-04 07:21:18 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Just out of curiosity I noticed in the last page there was a lot of chat about money early in the game. Especially the money for Dustia 2. I haven't watched the videos yet but is all that stealing/killing faster than skeleton farming?

Sadly I have too much stuff going on to do any regular work/races so I'm not sure how much point there is in me joining the skype group unless I actually start working on a new segmented run.

How do you see a segmented route being different than a SS one other than luck manipulation to help with Gil farming?

2014-06-04 07:27:55 pm

The gil discussion was mostly for bakcup strats/reliability. Stealing and getting chests is likely to be faster, but you'd probably have to kill some things to make LP work out. Based on the work I did recently on the SS/RTA side of things LP is going to be really tight, especially for Ashe and Pen, so I don't know how much could be cut out there (hence my doubts about being able to work with only one round of Jellies). I already know of workarounds for a couple potential problems, but there are others I'd have to investigate further.

Also, I have some documents which show a lot of my calculations. If you're interested in them, feel free to send me a PM (that goes for other runners, too).

2014-06-04 08:44:02 pm

You can easily cut the gil out of a second round of jellies between chest manipulation, a 40k+ dustia farm (higher the better), cutting out bubble, manipulating chests (2 GAs (4500) outside of Henne, free glacial on the way to Bur-omisace (2400), Gaia hat (3500), Black Mask (6200)), manipulating steals (Primarily the Ruby Ring from Bergan (8500)), and going very light on curables (minmum needed on a good runthrough). You can also possibly cut the Diamond Armor (I think emanon just uses shielded armor in the fights that require it, but I'd have to check).

As far as skeletons are concerned...I'm not entirely sure how much faster all of that extra stuff really is, and how much is just faster cutscenes (both the amalia cutscene and the mimic cutscene can be spammed through) and faster text skipping in general due to language+turbo controller. His Mimic Queen ends up about ~4-5 mins faster than my fastest, and dustia ends up being around 1:21:40 (over my ~1:27 fastest).

In addition, I'm working on strategies (somewhat based off good drops from early gil chests) to only do 32 skeletons and get the rest of the lp and hopefully money from the next room (kill first 2 skeletons, then set up licenses/gambits for mimic queen and kill the 3 mimics in the room, while also running balthier around to get a few of the chests on the right). I'm probably going to stop killing the mimic in the skeleton room as well in favor of the two tiny mimcs in the start of that room, not that I'll miss the two LP anyway, since I've been exclusively using balance strats for Judges lately.

You can easily cut the gil out of a second round of jellies between chest manipulation, a 40k+ dustia farm (higher the better), cutting out bubble, manipulating chests (2 GAs (4500) outside of Henne, free glacial on the way to Bur-omisace (2400), Gaia hat (3500), Black Mask (6200)), manipulating steals (Primarily the Ruby Ring from Bergan (8500)), and going very light on curables (minmum needed on a good runthrough). You can also possibly cut the Diamond Armor (I think emanon just uses shielded armor in the fights that require it, but I'd have to check).

As far as skeletons are concerned...I'm not entirely sure how much faster all of that extra stuff really is, and how much is just faster cutscenes (both the amalia cutscene and the mimic cutscene can be spammed through) and faster text skipping in general due to language+turbo controller. His Mimic Queen ends up about ~4-5 mins faster than my fastest, and dustia ends up being around 1:21:40 (over my ~1:27 fastest).

In addition, I'm working on strategies (somewhat based off good drops from early gil chests) to only do 32 skeletons and get the rest of the lp and hopefully money from the next room (kill first 2 skeletons, then set up licenses/gambits for mimic queen and kill the 3 mimics in the room, while also running balthier around to get a few of the chests on the right). I'm probably going to stop killing the mimic in the skeleton room as well in favor of the two tiny mimcs in the start of that room, not that I'll miss the two LP anyway, since I've been exclusively using balance strats for Judges lately.

2014-06-11 03:58:21 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ok so I'm working on a new route. Here is what I have so far if anyone is interested.

The TL:DR changes if you are:
1) Pick up chests for 10 Dustia on first round
2) No more skeleton farming, instead kill steal from mimics and a couple rats/bats
3) No Ba'Gamnon farming

If this new route works out the biggest time savers are going to be: no Ba'Gamnon, only one round of jellies, significantly less segments.

Please let me know if you have any comments.

Code:

Segment 01
	Start game.
	Skip,Skip,Skip
	Menu:
		Config: battle mode active, battle speed high, cursor position memory
	Skip
	Battle Remora
	Skip after transition
	Skip before three guards
	Skip, Skip, Skip
	Battle Rats
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Cancel, Next
	Skip Cutscene in front of Migellos
	Skip at The Sandsea
	Get Hunt
	Get Package
	Skip at gate
	Skip on exit
	**Grab all chests in/very close to path until second Dustia. Need the money for PD's
	Battle Tomato
	Skip after Vanquished, Next
	Talk to Kytes at the gate
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Next
	Chest: Phoenix Down (Luck manipulation)
	Skip at Dalan's door
	Skip on exit city
	Talk to Masyua
	Skip, Next
	Find Jinn
	Save Giza Plains
Segment 02
	Get Sunstone (Luck manipulate 2 stone fill, the two past Jinn so I can get the chests near the second one.)
	Remove penelo's equipment
	Return to Rabanastre
	Skip in Lowtown, Next
	Skip at Dalan, Next
	Skip when leaving
	Miguellos shop to sell items and buy PD's (need 10 total)
	Menu:
		Vaan: remove all, equip sword
	Save Westgate
Segment 03
	Skip on exit
	Damage down to under 10%
	Menu:
		Config: battle speed minimum
		Equip: optimize
	Dustia Leveling - Minimum 5 loot. 10 dustias.
	Meet Kytes in lowtown
	Skip
	Touch Crystal
	Go through sewers to stairs
	Skip, Skip
	Chests in room.
	Sneak past imperials
	Secret passage
	Skip, Next, Skip
	Skip, Skip
	Join with Balthier and Fran
	Menu:
		Config: battle speed max
		Licenses:
			Vaan: Black magic 1
		Gambits:
			Vaan:		1: FNV - Fire
					2: FNV - Attack
			Balthier:	1: FNV - attack
			Fran:		1: FNV - Fire
					2: FNV - Attack
	Steal from and kill rats/bats/toads on the path as long as magic holds out. Need to kill for the LP and potential loot.
	At this point Balthier should be leader and stealing from enemies.
	Save before Ashe
Segment 04
	Skip before fight
	Battle soldiers
	Skip after fight
	Skip before Flan
	Battle flan
	Skip after Flan
	Menu:
		Gambits:
			Disable fire for Vaan and Fran
	Touch Crystal
	Skip before Firemane
	Battle Firemane
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip
	Skip
	Fight bangaa
	Skip
	Skip
	Get Items
	Skip
	Skip
	Skip, Skip, Next, Skip
	Touch switch
	Get Fuse
	Install fuse
	Buy Blizzard
	Gate Switch
	Menu:
		Licenses:
			Balthier: Black Magic 1
		Gambits:
			Vaan:		1: FNV - Blizzard
			Balthier:	1: FNV - Blizzard
			Fran:		1: FNV - Blizzard
	Run through passage killing and stealing from Mimics, Balthier and Vaan switch leaders to keep MP up
	Skip, Skip, Skip
	Touch crystal
	Mimic Queen
	Skip
	Menu:
		Equip: Remove all Balthier, Fran
	Nalbina
	Sell items
	Buy Phoenix Downs x 45
	Teleport to Rabanastre
	Skip, next
	Westgate
	Menu:
		Equip:
			Vaan: remove all, equip sword
		Gambits:
			Vaan: 		1: FNV - Phoenix Down
	Save
Segment 05
	Damage down to 10%
	Menu:
		Config: battle speed down 2
		Equip: optimize
	Dustia - to level 21
		By chain 10: avg 5 books
		By chain 20: avg 10 books
		By chain 30: avg 19 books
		Test run 45: avg 36 books / 5 staves
		RTA has 21386G after selling loot
			Test run 1 20895G (37/4)
			Test run 2 23455G (36/6)
	Menu:
		Config: Battle speed max
		Turn off PD Gambit
	Licenses:
		Vaan: Staves 2
	Equip:
		Vaan: Optimize
	Warp southgate
	Talk to Dalan
	Skip, Next
	Talk to Balzak
	Skip, Skip, Next
	Skip - before sandsea
	The Sandsea
	Turn in Hunt
	Skip, Next
	Party Vaan, Balthier, Fran
	Moogle warp to Westgate
	Balthier
	Skip, Skip, Skip
	Go outside
	Skip, next
	Touch crystal to fill up.
	Skip at mine entrance
	Skip
	Into the mine
	Skip
	Out of the mine
	Skip at end of chase
	Skip on exit
	Testify
	Skip, Skip, Skip
	Talk to the Marquis
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip, Next, Next, Next
	Party: Vaan, Basch
	Save Leviathan
Segment 06
	Attack Vossler to critical
	Skip before fight
	Defeat Judges
	Get Ashe
	Skip, next
	Buy:
		Cherry Staff x2
		Gambit Self
		Immobilize, Reflect, Protect, Dark
	Door
	Skip
	Run
	Skip at Penelo, next, next
	Party Vaan, Ashe, Penelo
	Licenses
		Vaan: BM2, AM1, TM1
		Penelo: BM2, AM1, TM1, Spellbreaker, Headsman, Staves 1
		Ashe: BM2, Spellbreaker, Headsman, Staves 1
	Equip
		Ashe/Penelo:		Cherry Staff
	Gambits:
		Vaan:			1: Self - Reflect
					2: Self - Dark
		Penelo:			1: Self - Reflect
					2: Self - Dark
	Skip
	Battle Judge Ghis - Turn off gambits before end of fight
	Skip, Skip
	Party Basch
	Talk to Ondore
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip
	Run through Sandsea
	Party: Vaan, Ashe, Penelo
	Save

Ok so I'm working on a new route. Here is what I have so far if anyone is interested.

The TL:DR changes if you are:
1) Pick up chests for 10 Dustia on first round
2) No more skeleton farming, instead kill steal from mimics and a couple rats/bats
3) No Ba'Gamnon farming

If this new route works out the biggest time savers are going to be: no Ba'Gamnon, only one round of jellies, significantly less segments.

Please let me know if you have any comments.

[hidden="route so far"][code]Segment 01
	Start game.
	Skip,Skip,Skip
	Menu:
		Config: battle mode active, battle speed high, cursor position memory
	Skip
	Battle Remora
	Skip after transition
	Skip before three guards
	Skip, Skip, Skip
	Battle Rats
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Cancel, Next
	Skip Cutscene in front of Migellos
	Skip at The Sandsea
	Get Hunt
	Get Package
	Skip at gate
	Skip on exit
	**Grab all chests in/very close to path until second Dustia. Need the money for PD's
	Battle Tomato
	Skip after Vanquished, Next
	Talk to Kytes at the gate
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Next
	Chest: Phoenix Down (Luck manipulation)
	Skip at Dalan's door
	Skip on exit city
	Talk to Masyua
	Skip, Next
	Find Jinn
	Save Giza Plains
Segment 02
	Get Sunstone (Luck manipulate 2 stone fill, the two past Jinn so I can get the chests near the second one.)
	Remove penelo's equipment
	Return to Rabanastre
	Skip in Lowtown, Next
	Skip at Dalan, Next
	Skip when leaving
	Miguellos shop to sell items and buy PD's (need 10 total)
	Menu:
		Vaan: remove all, equip sword
	Save Westgate
Segment 03
	Skip on exit
	Damage down to under 10%
	Menu:
		Config: battle speed minimum
		Equip: optimize
	Dustia Leveling - Minimum 5 loot. 10 dustias.
	Meet Kytes in lowtown
	Skip
	Touch Crystal
	Go through sewers to stairs
	Skip, Skip
	Chests in room.
	Sneak past imperials
	Secret passage
	Skip, Next, Skip
	Skip, Skip
	Join with Balthier and Fran
	Menu:
		Config: battle speed max
		Licenses:
			Vaan: Black magic 1
		Gambits:
			Vaan:		1: FNV - Fire
					2: FNV - Attack
			Balthier:	1: FNV - attack
			Fran:		1: FNV - Fire
					2: FNV - Attack
	Steal from and kill rats/bats/toads on the path as long as magic holds out. Need to kill for the LP and potential loot.
	At this point Balthier should be leader and stealing from enemies.
	Save before Ashe
Segment 04
	Skip before fight
	Battle soldiers
	Skip after fight
	Skip before Flan
	Battle flan
	Skip after Flan
	Menu:
		Gambits:
			Disable fire for Vaan and Fran
	Touch Crystal
	Skip before Firemane
	Battle Firemane
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip
	Skip
	Fight bangaa
	Skip
	Skip
	Get Items
	Skip
	Skip
	Skip, Skip, Next, Skip
	Touch switch
	Get Fuse
	Install fuse
	Buy Blizzard
	Gate Switch
	Menu:
		Licenses:
			Balthier: Black Magic 1
		Gambits:
			Vaan:		1: FNV - Blizzard
			Balthier:	1: FNV - Blizzard
			Fran:		1: FNV - Blizzard
	Run through passage killing and stealing from Mimics, Balthier and Vaan switch leaders to keep MP up
	Skip, Skip, Skip
	Touch crystal
	Mimic Queen
	Skip
	Menu:
		Equip: Remove all Balthier, Fran
	Nalbina
	Sell items
	Buy Phoenix Downs x 45
	Teleport to Rabanastre
	Skip, next
	Westgate
	Menu:
		Equip:
			Vaan: remove all, equip sword
		Gambits:
			Vaan: 		1: FNV - Phoenix Down
	Save
Segment 05
	Damage down to 10%
	Menu:
		Config: battle speed down 2
		Equip: optimize
	Dustia - to level 21
		By chain 10: avg 5 books
		By chain 20: avg 10 books
		By chain 30: avg 19 books
		Test run 45: avg 36 books / 5 staves
		RTA has 21386G after selling loot
			Test run 1 20895G (37/4)
			Test run 2 23455G (36/6)
	Menu:
		Config: Battle speed max
		Turn off PD Gambit
	Licenses:
		Vaan: Staves 2
	Equip:
		Vaan: Optimize
	Warp southgate
	Talk to Dalan
	Skip, Next
	Talk to Balzak
	Skip, Skip, Next
	Skip - before sandsea
	The Sandsea
	Turn in Hunt
	Skip, Next
	Party Vaan, Balthier, Fran
	Moogle warp to Westgate
	Balthier
	Skip, Skip, Skip
	Go outside
	Skip, next
	Touch crystal to fill up.
	Skip at mine entrance
	Skip
	Into the mine
	Skip
	Out of the mine
	Skip at end of chase
	Skip on exit
	Testify
	Skip, Skip, Skip
	Talk to the Marquis
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip, Next, Next, Next
	Party: Vaan, Basch
	Save Leviathan
Segment 06
	Attack Vossler to critical
	Skip before fight
	Defeat Judges
	Get Ashe
	Skip, next
	Buy:
		Cherry Staff x2
		Gambit Self
		Immobilize, Reflect, Protect, Dark
	Door
	Skip
	Run
	Skip at Penelo, next, next
	Party Vaan, Ashe, Penelo
	Licenses
		Vaan: BM2, AM1, TM1
		Penelo: BM2, AM1, TM1, Spellbreaker, Headsman, Staves 1
		Ashe: BM2, Spellbreaker, Headsman, Staves 1
	Equip
		Ashe/Penelo:		Cherry Staff
	Gambits:
		Vaan:			1: Self - Reflect
					2: Self - Dark
		Penelo:			1: Self - Reflect
					2: Self - Dark
	Skip
	Battle Judge Ghis - Turn off gambits before end of fight
	Skip, Skip
	Party Basch
	Talk to Ondore
	Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip
	Run through Sandsea
	Party: Vaan, Ashe, Penelo
	Save[/code][/hidden]

Nitrodon

2014-06-11 04:55:57 pm

Unfortunately, if you kill 10 Dustia in the first round, Balthier will join at level 13 with 22 magick power. This is just barely high enough to fail to underflow Sleep's success rate against Fenrir.

2014-06-11 08:07:59 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I see. Well that is going to be a no-go then. I'll shift a couple of the Dustia to round two instead. Thanks for the head's up. That would have sucked to find out once I got to Fenrir lol.

2014-06-12 02:19:40 am

Yeah, atm I do 8 Dustia round 1, 47 round 2.

Check out this video for how I (and pretty much Emanon, as I take most of the strats from him) do the start: http://www.twitch.tv/freddeh/c/4415436

Issues/Comments other than the Dustia thing that I notice so far:
- That first Segment is going to take so much to optimize...getting average to good luck on Remora+Guards+Rats+Tomato and then luck manipulating the PD is going to take like 50 tries to get one that I would personally consider keeping.
- Remove all on both Vaan and Pen when re-entering Rab, in my experience 3 barehand hits from a naked vaan will get him to 10% (after re-equipping gear), that's easy to do in the walk from Rab (and its a short enough segment that you can easily reset if wolf is in a bad spot, still going to take far less tries manipulating the 2 stones+that than the first segment >_> )
- The money issue is an interesting one: Honestly it'd be easiest to just try to manipulate a fire staff (or 2) from dustia instead of trying to manipulate all the chests in the waterway (especially in the first section).
- Rats are pointless to kill, bats mostly pointless (unless you need LP, but those are probably ok to skip as well) after the first room. Focus on Toads.
- I would look into exactly how much LP you need to afford Spellbreaker after Demon Wall, and kill just enough mobs in Waterway and Barheim to reach that. You don't need to kill quite as much as I do for the money since you can manipulate the important chests and Dustia. Personally, I'd the easiest place to skip without really losing out on much money is the first room in Barheim.
- Potentially fastest equip setup for Firemane is Vaan with Mage Masher (from second flan chest I believe), Unarmed Balthier, and Bow Fran.
- The Gambit setup for Barheim is ok if you're going to try to focus on not killing flans, however I would advise against this because flan common steal and common drop (green liquids) sell for quite a bit, and in addition if you don't kill them they will take do quite a bit of damage to your team. I usually have Balthier cast Fire against these and have vaan/fran steal instead so that they die in one round.
- Faster to buy as many PDs as you can before Dustia 2 (47+at least 2 more for Guards fight) unless you plan on trying to manipulate the guards fight on leviathan without vossler dying.
- What's the point in having Balthier and Fran in the party for the Lhusu run? Remnant from Ba'Gamnon farming?
- I may be wrong, but I don't think you can afford those licenses at Ghis...then again, I guess Penelo always could, but don't you need TM2 for reflect?

Yeah, atm I do 8 Dustia round 1, 47 round 2.

Check out this video for how I (and pretty much Emanon, as I take most of the strats from him) do the start: http://www.twitch.tv/freddeh/c/4415436

Issues/Comments other than the Dustia thing that I notice so far: 
- That first Segment is going to take so much to optimize...getting average to good luck on Remora+Guards+Rats+Tomato and then luck manipulating the PD is going to take like 50 tries to get one that I would personally consider keeping.
- Remove all on both Vaan and Pen when re-entering Rab, in my experience 3 barehand hits from a naked vaan will get him to 10% (after re-equipping gear), that's easy to do in the walk from Rab (and its a short enough segment that you can easily reset if wolf is in a bad spot, still going to take far less tries manipulating the 2 stones+that than the first segment >_> )
- The money issue is an interesting one: Honestly it'd be easiest to just try to manipulate a fire staff (or 2) from dustia instead of trying to manipulate all the chests in the waterway (especially in the first section).
- Rats are pointless to kill, bats mostly pointless (unless you need LP, but those are probably ok to skip as well) after the first room. Focus on Toads.
- I would look into exactly how much LP you need to afford Spellbreaker after Demon Wall, and kill just enough mobs in Waterway and Barheim to reach that. You don't need to kill quite as much as I do for the money since you can manipulate the important chests and Dustia. Personally, I'd the easiest place to skip without really losing out on much money is the first room in Barheim.
- Potentially fastest equip setup for Firemane is Vaan with Mage Masher (from second flan chest I believe), Unarmed Balthier, and Bow Fran.
- The Gambit setup for Barheim is ok if you're going to try to focus on not killing flans, however I would advise against this because flan common steal and common drop (green liquids) sell for quite a bit, and in addition if you don't kill them they will take do quite a bit of damage to your team. I usually have Balthier cast Fire against these and have vaan/fran steal instead so that they die in one round.
- Faster to buy as many PDs as you can before Dustia 2 (47+at least 2 more for Guards fight) unless you plan on trying to manipulate the guards fight on leviathan without vossler dying. 
- What's the point in having Balthier and Fran in the party for the Lhusu run? Remnant from Ba'Gamnon farming?
- I may be wrong, but I don't think you can afford those licenses at Ghis...then again, I guess Penelo always could, but don't you need TM2 for reflect?

Edit history:

Youkai: 2014-06-12 11:31:20 am

Youkai: 2014-06-12 11:01:09 am

2014-06-12 10:53:44 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Thanks for the comments. Here are some replies:
-I know :/ that segment is going to suck mostly because of the luck manipulation of the PD chest.
-Good point. I should remove all from both Vaan and Penelo because that will save me going into the menu. As far as the damaging if I have vaan attack himself once with the sword and then I think one wolf hit without and one with armor takes him down to like 1-3 HP usually. So I'll do that probably. If I die occasionally to the wolf it's not a big deal.
-I should probably consider making Dustia 1 a more difficult luck manipulation so that I can not have to get as many chests. If I managed to get 6 books I think that might cover it. I'll have to test.
-Killing the bats and rats is actually mostly for the LP for Balthier. If I kill them I can have Blizzard at the start of the Barhiem passage. I guess I don't need it right at the start of the passage. I can probably skip killing and stealing from them if I manipulate a good Dustia. On my next practice run I'll make sure to keep an eye on how many extra LP I have after the Demon Wall and cut that many kills out of my run.
-Yeah that party before the mines is just something I didn't remove. it's gone from my notes now. Just Vaan is fine.
-Is TM2 refect? It should be that then. I was able to get all of those on my first practice run. I'll adjust it if necessary.

EDIT: Watching your video. If attacking yourself works that well empty handed I'll try that.
EDIT 2: Watched your Barhiem passage. I definitely like the strat of having Balthier on fire. I'll incorporate some of that into my run.

Thanks for the comments. Here are some replies:
-I know :/ that segment is going to suck mostly because of the luck manipulation of the PD chest.
-Good point. I should remove all from both Vaan and Penelo because that will save me going into the menu. As far as the damaging if I have vaan attack himself once with the sword and then I think one wolf hit without and one with armor takes him down to like 1-3 HP usually. So I'll do that probably. If I die occasionally to the wolf it's not a big deal.
-I should probably consider making Dustia 1 a more difficult luck manipulation so that I can not have to get as many chests. If I managed to get 6 books I think that might cover it. I'll have to test.
-Killing the bats and rats is actually mostly for the LP for Balthier. If I kill them I can have Blizzard at the start of the Barhiem passage. I guess I don't need it right at the start of the passage. I can probably skip killing and stealing from them if I manipulate a good Dustia. On my next practice run I'll make sure to keep an eye on how many extra LP I have after the Demon Wall and cut that many kills out of my run.
-Yeah that party before the mines is just something I didn't remove. it's gone from my notes now. Just Vaan is fine.
-Is TM2 refect? It should be that then. I was able to get all of those on my first practice run. I'll adjust it if necessary.

EDIT: Watching your video. If attacking yourself works that well empty handed I'll try that.
EDIT 2: Watched your Barhiem passage. I definitely like the strat of having Balthier on fire. I'll incorporate some of that into my run.

2014-06-12 11:33:05 am

Segment 1: Depending on how many PD’s you get for Dustia 1, it may be faster to grab one from Migelo’s here. I’d have to check, but iirc you need 5 then 8 Dustias to get Vaan his additional level(s). Personally I’d go for 5 Dustias if at all possible, because you can sell the Orrachea Armlet and have enough gil to buy the extra PD you’d need, thereby saving some running in Segment 2 – killing a few extra mobs in Garamsythe/Barheim could easily make up for the lost LP in the short term.

Segment 4: Freddeh and sk8 have got no-Shockstorm fights against Mimic Queen, which may or may not be worth another segment. Not sure how any additional damage from higher levels would affect the move’s timing, though.

Segment 5-6: Giving Vaan Staves 2 is an interesting idea. It may save getting a third Cherry Staff (Staves 1), but I don’t know exactly how some things would work out. If the extra magic from having him equip a Flame Staff is enough against Demon Wall and Belias it would be nice, though because it has the same attack power as a Cypress Pole it might make optimizing before Tiamat less nice for Vaan. The basic idea for the one round Demon Wall is to have Penelo in Spellbreaker and Cherry Staves on her, Ashe and possibly Vaan. No-Firaja Belias I’m less sure of, but I have Spellbreaker on both Ashe and Penelo, with Cherry Staves on everyone – though given that forgetting to give Ashe Spellbreaker still leaves you close, you could almost certainly get away with not having a Cherry Staff on Vaan. All that said, I’d still be inclined to buy a third Cherry Staff because they aren’t that expensive and it makes the Cypress Pole optimizing issue irrelevant. Plus, you might even get a two round Belias (http://www.twitch.tv/aleck47/c/4307438 - though have fun if you want to manipulate that one).

Segment 1: Depending on how many PD’s you get for Dustia 1, it may be faster to grab one from Migelo’s here.  I’d have to check, but iirc you need 5 then 8 Dustias to get Vaan his additional level(s).  Personally I’d go for 5 Dustias if at all possible, because you can sell the Orrachea Armlet and have enough gil to buy the extra PD you’d need, thereby saving some running in Segment 2 – killing a few extra mobs in Garamsythe/Barheim could easily make up for the lost LP in the short term.

Segment 4: Freddeh and sk8 have got no-Shockstorm fights against Mimic Queen, which may or may not be worth another segment.  Not sure how any additional damage from higher levels would affect the move’s timing, though.

Segment 5-6: Giving Vaan Staves 2 is an interesting idea.  It may save getting a third Cherry Staff (Staves 1), but I don’t know exactly how some things would work out.  If the extra magic from having him equip a Flame Staff is enough against Demon Wall and Belias it would be nice, though because it has the same attack power as a Cypress Pole it might make optimizing before Tiamat less nice for Vaan.  The basic idea for the one round Demon Wall is to have Penelo in Spellbreaker and Cherry Staves on her, Ashe and possibly Vaan.  No-Firaja Belias I’m less sure of, but I have Spellbreaker on both Ashe and Penelo, with Cherry Staves on everyone – though given that forgetting to give Ashe Spellbreaker still leaves you close, you could almost certainly get away with not having a Cherry Staff on Vaan.  All that said, I’d still be inclined to buy a third Cherry Staff because they aren’t that expensive and it makes the Cypress Pole optimizing issue irrelevant.  Plus, you might even get a two round Belias (http://www.twitch.tv/aleck47/c/4307438 - though have fun if you want to manipulate that one).

2014-06-12 11:46:57 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I've been out of it for a while. What is the cypress pole optomizing issue?

2014-06-12 11:55:25 am

OH, talking about no shockwave fights, I think if you time it right you can delay the last round of blizzard casting to do the most damage against mimic queen to kill it before shockwave goes off. I was close to being able to do it in my last run by just having balthier do one attack instead of a blizzard, it would have worked perfect I think if I delayed his last cast a bit more.

Honestly, since you only need to do buy 5 PDs, you don't really need to manipulate that PD from the chest unless you want to skip either penelos unequip or the small package. I wouldn't suggest trying only 5 dustias though, even though it would be a shorter run time, because of how much lp you would lose (not to mention less money from dustia drops, even in a segmented run like this).

The route I'm using has just enough LP for balthier to get BM1 at the start of barheim (killing ~4 bats and all the frogs, not missing a guard).

the naked knockdown depends a little on damage rolls, but its pretty consistent for me overall.

Staves 2 on Vaan is indeed an interesting idea, as I like the idea of saving 800 gil and making the early gil route just that much easier. Demon Wall is pretty easy to 1-round with a spellbreakered Pen (I don't bother to steal anymore). Also something I just tested today is buying the Cherry staves from Tetran in leviathan and just using those to 1-round Ghis. I'll have to test Staves 2 on Vaan though...if I can consistently 1-round ghis with only that I'd much rather buy the cherries at Dyce due to where they are on the weapons list. Though, I guess a cherry staff aero is more damage than a flame staff aero isn't it? Hm...

OH, talking about no shockwave fights, I think if you time it right you can delay the last round of blizzard casting to do the most damage against mimic queen to kill it before shockwave goes off. I was close to being able to do it in my last run by just having balthier do one attack instead of a blizzard, it would have worked perfect I think if I delayed his last cast a bit more.

Honestly, since you only need to do buy 5 PDs, you don't really need to manipulate that PD from the chest unless you want to skip either penelos unequip or the small package. I wouldn't suggest trying only 5 dustias though, even though it would be a shorter run time, because of how much lp you would lose (not to mention less money from dustia drops, even in a segmented run like this).

The route I'm using has just enough LP for balthier to get BM1 at the start of barheim (killing ~4 bats and all the frogs, not missing a guard).

the naked knockdown depends a little on damage rolls, but its pretty consistent for me overall.

Staves 2 on Vaan is indeed an interesting idea, as I like the idea of saving 800 gil and making the early gil route just that much easier. Demon Wall is pretty easy to 1-round with a spellbreakered Pen (I don't bother to steal anymore). Also something I just tested today is buying the Cherry staves from Tetran in leviathan and just using those to 1-round Ghis. I'll have to test Staves 2 on Vaan though...if I can consistently 1-round ghis with only that I'd much rather buy the cherries at Dyce due to where they are on the weapons list. Though, I guess a cherry staff aero is more damage than a flame staff aero isn't it? Hm...

Falcon_Punch1001

2014-06-12 12:37:46 pm

I can confirm that, providing both Ashe and Penelo have spellbreaker and are in critical, Vaan doesn't need a cherry staff to get a Firaja-less Belias.

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2014-06-12 03:10:38 pm

2014-06-12 03:02:59 pm

I don't think having Blizzard for Balthier at the start of Barheim is a big deal, though, so long as he has it for Mimic Queen. You can kill the Battery Mimics with only two (or even one) Blizzard casters. It would take slightly longer than just three Blizzards, but wouldn't you be stealing from them with Balthier anyway?

Besides, you'd need a lot of LP for Balthier to actually start with any when he joins you, and those few extra Dustias don't supply nearly enough.

Edit: Regarding optimize, I'm not sure if it would give Vaan a Flame Staff or the Cypress Pole you want him to have, so it may lead to a second or so of extra menuing.

Edit history:

Youkai: 2014-06-12 03:42:53 pm

2014-06-12 03:41:39 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Did another test run from the start to Dustia 2. I don't need to luck manipulate the first PD from the chest before Dustia 1 so that's nice. I managed to get a 6 drop Dustia 1 and by the time I got to PD for Dustia 2 I had 48 PD with 1600 gil left over. So I think I don't need to bother opening up chests after Dustia 1 so long as I manipulate a decent Barhiem farming segment (a couple nice pulls from the variable money chests at the start of the passage helps too). I think I'll do only chests that are exactly on the route as well as perhaps ones that can hold PD's.

If I kill and steal from Bats and Toads and kill all four guards then Balthier can license fire at the start of the passage which is nice because it saves me going into the menu an extra time. Using fire on the slimes worked wonders.

2014-06-12 09:59:01 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Got back to Raithwall's tomb before Garuda. When I got Ashe I was able to get her Spellbreaker with 45LP left over. That's basically all the LP from the passage but I have to do that for Gil. Also I'm going to see if I can get away with only one round of jellies and possibly no Golden Amulets since they cost so much so LP will be a premium. So I think I need to still kill all the mimics/jellies in the passage for the Gil and LP. Also if I have 45 or more LP left on Leviathan I can purchase TM2 for Ashe in that trip to the license board and save a visit to that screen.

Edit history:

Freddeh: 2014-06-13 02:55:53 am

2014-06-13 02:35:18 am

Damn, how much did you kill in barheim to get Ashe with that much LP? That seems really high assuming you also got reflect, dark, and staves 1 on her.

Also, you can easily manipulate 2 GAs at the very least from chests (and the third from your original GA spot if you want, but thats more of a time loss).

Also also, i wonder how tough it would be to take down ghis and garuda with fran and balthier using reflected darks instead of penelo and ashe? That would free up lp from both TM1 and AM1 in the long run for ashe and penelo. Ghis wouldn't be a big deal overall, but I don't think you could 1-round garuda with them, which makes it more tricky, not to mention the extra time used to license them. This would let you get your GA's up for the jellies farming a bit earlier. For the most part though, having low lp on ashe and pen isn't a HUGE issue, since all it mostly does it make fights less consistent, but in a segmented run thats less of an issue.

Edit history:

Freddeh: 2014-06-13 06:56:37 pm

2014-06-13 06:55:01 pm

So, did some staves 2 testing on Vaan: I'm not seeing a downside to this plan.

1) Lets you 1-round Ghis without needing to buy Cherry Staves at Tetran (the damn staves are in the middle of the list...so slow XD)
2) Optimize defaults vaan to Cypress Pole if a less weapon is equipped (remove all does that just nicely too)
3) Demon wall is still an easy 1-rounder with spellbreakered Pen
4) Belias is actually a little smoother because Vaan doesn't do quite enough damage to knock Belias down to 50% hp now. At least in the attempt I made.

Main thing to test on the above is if ghis is consistently a 1-rounder (assuming everything lands), but it looks like a solid plan otherwise.

Another thing I've been meaning to look into is different setups for Tiamat. If we swap to Balthier instead of Pen hitting him (safer now due to him being higher level...at least with my strats), and have Basch berserked instead of vaan, it should be about as fast if not faster (Basch does considerably more damage than anyone else here). The main issues are 1: Can Vaan tank without shielded armor? I was thinking of giving him Traveler to make it a bit easier, but I think he may not be able to survive without shielded armor. So instead, the idea would be to have vaan manually cast berserk on basch and balthier, let balthiers run out halfway through the fight and use him to Traveler still, with Vaan tanking and recasting Berserk on Basch when it runs out (if needed).

Upsides: Pen can more easily afford headsman before jellies starts (and gets 35 more lp to use overall), fight should be slightly faster, don't have to spend time in gambit screen for berserk gambits.
Downsides: Manually casting Berserk can be slow, especially if misses happen, balthier can still possibly get 1-shot, though adding some armor back on him would help, Vaan is slightly less tanky than Basch, but its pretty moot if shielded armor is on.

So, did some staves 2 testing on Vaan: I'm not seeing a downside to this plan.

1) Lets you 1-round Ghis without needing to buy Cherry Staves at Tetran (the damn staves are in the middle of the list...so slow XD)
2) Optimize defaults vaan to Cypress Pole if a less weapon is equipped (remove all does that just nicely too)
3) Demon wall is still an easy 1-rounder with spellbreakered Pen
4) Belias is actually a little smoother because Vaan doesn't do quite enough damage to knock Belias down to 50% hp now. At least in the attempt I made.

Main thing to test on the above is if ghis is consistently a 1-rounder (assuming everything lands), but it looks like a solid plan otherwise.

Another thing I've been meaning to look into is different setups for Tiamat. If we swap to Balthier instead of Pen hitting him (safer now due to him being higher level...at least with my strats), and have Basch berserked instead of vaan, it should be about as fast if not faster (Basch does considerably more damage than anyone else here). The main issues are 1: Can Vaan tank without shielded armor? I was thinking of giving him Traveler to make it a bit easier, but I think he may not be able to survive without shielded armor. So instead, the idea would be to have vaan manually cast berserk on basch and balthier, let balthiers run out halfway through the fight and use him to Traveler still, with Vaan tanking and recasting Berserk on Basch when it runs out (if needed).

Upsides: Pen can more easily afford headsman before jellies starts (and gets 35 more lp to use overall), fight should be slightly faster, don't have to spend time in gambit screen for berserk gambits.
Downsides: Manually casting Berserk can be slow, especially if misses happen, balthier can still possibly get 1-shot, though adding some armor back on him would help, Vaan is slightly less tanky than Basch, but its pretty moot if shielded armor is on.

2014-06-13 06:57:09 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I didn't get reflect on her yet or dark. That is with: BM2, Spellbreaker, Headsman, Staves 1.

I'm wondering if it's worth the two extra saves it would cost me to luck manipulate the two GA's from chests. Since I'm only doing one round of jellies I think it might be. Also it would save me 9k gil. It's possibly I could afford to buy all three with some good Dustia manipulation but I think it might still be worth pulling two from a chest at a cost of about a minute each.

Freddeh have you watched the JPN RTA from the previous page? In that one they berzerk Basch, Balthier and have Vaan tank with shielded armor.

Edit history:

Freddeh: 2014-06-13 07:06:43 pm

Freddeh: 2014-06-13 07:06:13 pm

2014-06-13 06:59:59 pm

Yeah, that's partly where I got the idea (doing some mental gymnastics in my head basically led to the same logical conclusion anyway).

Well, depending on how much you want to manipulate Dustia luck, the first pass through is the one that is most useful to manipulate, as it doesn't waste much time due to chocobo sprint refreshes. The second time through its quite a run back to the entrance of henne, so if you can afford the GAs it might be better to do it that way instead.

Edit: Just found one rather major issue: Vaan can't afford lp for shielded armor AND black belt...not a big deal for segmented, but for RTA I wouldn't trust it.

2014-06-13 07:06:47 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

You don't need black belt. He will never get targeted by Disable if he is the tank and who cares if he does.

2014-06-13 07:07:32 pm

Really? Thats how disablega works on tiamat?