FFXII - New Run Complete!

Edit history:

Soysaucemaster: 2012-03-26 03:33:52 pm

2012-03-26 01:35:05 pm

Aside from the Jellys, Skeletons, and Corpses, the only other thing I can think of is Cluckatrice Hunt. The trick is that Cluckatrice, and the 3 Cockatrice, will respawn if you leave the zone with one of them still alive. You'd get 16 LP each trip if you decide to kill Cluckatrice (with Golden Amulet). I think that's a lot slower than the Skeletons in Lhusu, though, because it's pretty tough with low-tier equips. As for looping zones, there's the northern areas of Zertinan, but you need to get past Adrammelech so you can push the boulders and connect the pathways. Giza Plains (dry) has a good 4-zone loop, with quick kills. I forget how many zones it takes for monsters to respawn, I think it was 3 or 4, so that would probably be ideal.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, with Dustia, it'd take about 20-25 minutes to throw 99 Phoenix Downs, so that's 99x6= 594 LP. It'd wouldn't even take 5 minutes to restock on PDs from Migelo's. That averages out to about 20 LP/minute. I say Dustia is the fastest for LP.

Aside from the Jellys, Skeletons, and Corpses, the only other thing I can think of is Cluckatrice Hunt. The trick is that Cluckatrice, and the 3 Cockatrice, will respawn if you leave the zone with one of them still alive. You'd get 16 LP each trip if you decide to kill Cluckatrice (with Golden Amulet). I think that's a lot slower than the Skeletons in Lhusu, though, because it's pretty tough with low-tier equips. As for looping zones, there's the northern areas of Zertinan, but you need to get past Adrammelech so you can push the boulders and connect the pathways. Giza Plains (dry) has a good 4-zone loop, with quick kills. I forget how many zones it takes for monsters to respawn, I think it was 3 or 4, so that would probably be ideal.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, with Dustia, it'd take about 20-25 minutes to throw 99 Phoenix Downs, so that's 99x6= 594 LP. It'd wouldn't even take 5 minutes to restock on PDs from Migelo's. That averages out to about 20 LP/minute. I say Dustia is the fastest for LP.

Youkai

2012-03-26 05:37:56 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

How does LP work when the people aren't in your party yet? I certainly don't have a problem doing more Dustia leveling if that's the most efficient way but I wonder if I'll be shooting myself in the foot later in the game by not having enough LP for the members that aren't in the party yet. Do they get all that LP too? Unless all the reserve members get 6 LP every time as well I don't think it would be worth it.

Joshkaz

2012-03-26 05:39:43 pm

King Wabasami

iirc they get LP based on how much Vaan has + a certain amount. Not 100% sure on this though.

Tiberius

2012-03-26 05:51:17 pm

Make it so.

Base LP's when joining party are as follows:

Vaan - 0
Fran - Vaan's total -120
Balthier - (Vaan's total/2) + (Fran's total - 135)
Basch - Vaan's total -100
Penelo 1 (Giza plains bit) - Vaan's total - 20
Penelo 2 (full joining) - Average of 2 highest party members +20
Ashe - Average of 2 highest party members -100

So yeah, they're basically all based on how much Vaan has when they join so Dustia levelling would indeed affect them.

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-03-26 06:01:29 pm

2012-03-26 05:56:10 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Ok that's interesting then. Once I'm done with this practice playthrough I'll have to do some real testing to see which is faster. I'll probably need to do some Jelly farming for the money anyway but if they are pretty even and I level more earlier for the LP that can't hurt the run any.

EDIT: Hmm . . . I know my jelly farming was slopy and slow but after Bergain I'm 2 hours behind Essentias test run. I haven't been re-doing any parts of the run if they went bad but still I should be closer than that. I wonder if the emulater not always running at full framerate is affecting it. Still I don't see how that could be affecting it by over an hour. I guess I'll have to really step it up on the actual run.

Soysaucemaster

Edit history:

Soysaucemaster: 2012-03-26 06:08:01 pm

2012-03-26 06:03:50 pm

Just a quick note, though- Phoenix Downs aren't sold at Migelo's until after Mimic Queen. *I think*

EDIT:
And I was calculating with Golden Amulets. Ba'Gammnan would technically be faster beforehand.

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-03-26 06:10:32 pm

2012-03-26 06:04:27 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

They are sold in the little camp in the desert though which is where you can get them without breaking your chain.

EDIT: I tried fighting him real quick on this current test run and I wouldn't be able to kill him quickly. How long were you estimating a cycle would be for your calculation? It would take me more than 5 sec to kill him so that would give more than 15 sec rotation I think. Also, how exactly does it work. The videos I saw on youtube looked poorly executed. Finally how much faster; I'm not sure it's worth it if I get no exp from it.

Soysaucemaster

2012-03-26 06:28:38 pm

It works the same way Dustia chaining works; you zone out before the Exp/JP registers on screen. I haven't tried it myself, but it's continual respawn with the damage previously done, so that you can keep killing it with one hit. Like Deedlit said, the Bangaa give 5 LP. You're gaining 2 extra LP, per kill, in nearly the same amount of time as Dustia (without the Amulets).

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-03-26 06:32:46 pm

2012-03-26 06:31:49 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Interesting I'll have to test that then.

Does Ba'gammonn give the most? Do I need to save him for last?

Soysaucemaster

2012-03-26 06:38:05 pm

Ba'Gamnan needs to be alive, or I think a cutscene ends the battle, and they all leave. You need to focus on one of the others.

Youkai

2012-03-26 06:44:59 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

K, when I get to testing the LP methods I'll test, dustia, Ba'Gamnon, and the Jellies to see how the LP/min differs. Thanks for the help.

Tranquilite

2012-03-27 12:31:43 am

Quote from Youkai:

I wonder if the emulater not always running at full framerate is affecting it.

I'm quite certain from my experience playing FFXII on PCSX2 that FFXII emulates such that music and game timer will run at normal speed even when gamespeed drops in CPU intensive areas. I don't think your game time is particularly accurate when compared with Essentia's test run, though I am sure that it is still useful for testing out strategies. Though you may want to consider switching to console for more accurate time comparisons. However, even when on console, we learned from the KH2 race at SGDQ that you can also accumulate significant time differences between fat and slim PS2s.

I'm looking forward to this run, btw. Good luck!

Youkai

2012-03-27 07:34:41 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Interesting. Well whatever. I'm still a couple hours ahead of my previous test run on emulator but that may be because I'm not watching the cutscenes lol. I'll play on console when I'm working on the actual run obviously but for the planning my sanity is more important than an accurate time on the clock. I guess we will just see what I get when I start working on the actual run.

Soysaucemaster

2012-03-27 07:37:16 am

I was thinking for early Dustia chaining: Dustia has a 3% steal of Book of Orgain-Mille, which sells for 1477 Gil. It'd be worth bringing Penelo along, so that Vaan can try for a steal, while Penny throws the PD. Both Steal's and Dark's charge time is 30, so you should be able to get one steal off per kill, but you got to be quick and time the PD just right. I figure that having the extra money to buy more PDs is more important than the Exp at the very start of chaining. Another bonus, is that Penny will keep whatever licenses taught, before she officialy joins the party (I don't know if her LP pool would carry over, though).

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-03-27 07:43:11 am

2012-03-27 07:39:43 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I don't think that will be worth it. It's a segmented run so I'll just luck manipulate a decent first round. If I have another party member I'll be giving her experience which I don't want to do. Plus if the timing is as close as you say it is then it would cost me a LOT of resets on a segment that's already going to be difficult.

EDIT: also if I decide to do some extra Dustia leveling for the LP I can just manipulate a staff or two in the first round and sell them. They sell for a lot and I can afford it if I'm doing a longer chain because I should still get 3.

Fragmaster01

2012-03-27 08:20:24 am

Wiggle wiggle

SoySauce: Also remember that Dustia starts casting Dark before you can target him. Hence, you'll never actually get the steal off in time.

Soysaucemaster

2012-03-27 03:30:59 pm

OK, just tested it out. Yes, Dustia queues Dark before you can do anything. But, if you exit and re-enter, Dark is cancelled, and Dustia has already spawned. It doesn't effect chaining, either. Then again, it's a rare steal, and there's an additional 15 seconds spent on zoning for each attempt. It wasn't too difficult to pull off, though; PD just before half way through charging Steal on the highest battle speed. I wasn't getting any, so I started stealing with Penny, too. After 60 attempts I gave up. I regret suggesting this.

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-03-28 04:02:08 pm

Youkai: 2012-03-28 10:04:27 am

2012-03-28 09:52:23 am

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I did an LP farming test today. I did this as an optimal test so no running back to buy/sell items in either case. In both cases I loaded up the save I finished on to do the test. That didn't affect much on Dustia other than giving me the money I needed to buy PD's. On jellies that meant I had all my Licenses bought from the previous farming and Fira was one-shotting the jellies so I didn't have to waste time charging or anything. I did have the Golden Amulet's on during Jellies since I would have them for that part in the actual run. I made sure to pick up any treasure as I would during a run so that wouldn't affect the LP/sec. Finally I didn't test Ba'Gamnan as he doesn't give exp or money so I don't really think that's an option for this run. I did Dustia for 10 minutes and Jellies for 15. Jellies are a little more random so I wanted enough time for the LP to average out.

LP Farming test results
Dustia: 8.7 LP/min
Jellies: 19 LP/min

So it seems that Jellies are the clear winner. I should note that even starting at level 21; 10 minutes of Dustia got me 3 levels. I wonder if it might be worth spending a little more time there than I really planned on for an extra level or two. This practice run I was a little short on LP when I got to Jelly chaining which made the start really slow so I think I'm going to make sure I stay at Dustia until I have enough LP to make the first round of Jelly chaining not suck ass.

EDIT: haha that's LP/min not LP/sec. fixed that above.

EDIT 2: I did another test and it cost me about 15 minutes to do the extra Dustia farming I needed to do to have enough LP for jelly chaining. Then I played through until I got Basch again so I could confirm that and I gained some time. I'm not really sure if the time I gained was due to me being a little more familiar with the game or me being a higher level but 3 extra levels can't hurt. I gained about 5 minutes from Dustia farming to getting Basch permanently for a net loss of 10 min. That however will make my first round of Jelly chaining significantly better and I'm sure that will save me at least 10 minutes in addition to any extra savings I get until then due to being a slightly higher level.

I did an LP farming test today. I did this as an optimal test so no running back to buy/sell items in either case. In both cases I loaded up the save I finished on to do the test. That didn't affect much on Dustia other than giving me the money I needed to buy PD's. On jellies that meant I had all my Licenses bought from the previous farming and Fira was one-shotting the jellies so I didn't have to waste time charging or anything. I did have the Golden Amulet's on during Jellies since I would have them for that part in the actual run. I made sure to pick up any treasure as I would during a run so that wouldn't affect the LP/sec. Finally I didn't test Ba'Gamnan as he doesn't give exp or money so I don't really think that's an option for this run. I did Dustia for 10 minutes and Jellies for 15. Jellies are a little more random so I wanted enough time for the LP to average out.

[b]LP Farming test results[/b]
Dustia: 8.7 LP/min
Jellies: 19 LP/min

So it seems that Jellies are the clear winner. I should note that even starting at level 21; 10 minutes of Dustia got me 3 levels. I wonder if it might be worth spending a little more time there than I really planned on for an extra level or two. This practice run I was a little short on LP when I got to Jelly chaining which made the start really slow so I think I'm going to make sure I stay at Dustia until I have enough LP to make the first round of Jelly chaining not suck ass.

EDIT: haha that's LP/min not LP/sec. fixed that above.

EDIT 2: I did another test and it cost me about 15 minutes to do the extra Dustia farming I needed to do to have enough LP for jelly chaining. Then I played through until I got Basch again so I could confirm that and I gained some time. I'm not really sure if the time I gained was due to me being a little more familiar with the game or me being a higher level but 3 extra levels can't hurt. I gained about 5 minutes from Dustia farming to getting Basch permanently for a net loss of 10 min. That however will make my first round of Jelly chaining significantly better and I'm sure that will save me at least 10 minutes in addition to any extra savings I get until then due to being a slightly higher level.

Soysaucemaster

2012-03-28 03:59:33 pm

Impressive. What are you using against Tiamat? You could use Cypress Poles, since he's weak to earth. The quickest way to get them would be from Dyce at Raithwall (after Garuda). You'd most likely be able to kill it before Berserk wears off (if you're doing Essentia's strat), so it *might* save time. Also, you can get a Reflectga Mote from the Handaxe chest, as well as one in "Large Freight Stores" on Leviathan, so you don't have to buy/license Reflect for Garuda. Also: Something, I don't understand, is why you need Kotetsu? Blizzard works just fine against Mimic Queen, and, in Essentia's run, Quickenings are used against Judge Ghis and Vossler. Do you sell them later for cash?

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-03-28 04:08:10 pm

2012-03-28 04:04:34 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

I'll use Kotetsu on him.

My weapons will be: Starting weapon > Fire Staff > Kotetsu > Fomalhaut.

In the Hunters Camp I'll buy Gokku pole to use on Ahriman since he is stupid gun resistant and I'll already have the license for the pole on the way to Formalhaut so no wasted LP.

EDIT: Kotetsu are swords with 50 attack and high combo rate. They pretty much own for as early as you can get them. They drastically cut down the number of weapons I need to buy and licenses I need to spend. I don't use quickenings against those two. Ghis goes down super quick with just the Kotetsu. Probably as fast as a 4 quickening chain if not maybe a little faster.

In my test run I have quickenings for all three but I don't remember why I got them for Vaan and Basch. If I don't find a use for them before the end of the game I won't get them and spend the LP elsewhere.

Thanks for the note on the reflect mote. I'll probably do that.

Soysaucemaster

2012-03-28 04:30:33 pm

You could farm a couple Holy Motes, while in Cerrobi, since Ahriman is weak to Holy. You can get them in the chest just before the Fomalaut one.

Youkai

2012-03-28 05:31:34 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Just tested this. Not worth it. It does about 2500 damage to him and I hit him for about 1k if I remember right. So it would add too much time to be worth using an I'd have to un-equip the Diamond Armlet to get it and it's kind of a pain to use in the middle of battle anyway. Good idea though.

Soysaucemaster

2012-03-28 09:08:50 pm

Bummer. When do you farm Kotetsu? Werewolves aren't immune to Death, so, if you wait until after Barheim, you can use Assassin's Dagger on them. It doesn't cost much LP to get the license, either.

Youkai

Edit history:

Youkai: 2012-03-28 10:24:18 pm

Youkai: 2012-03-28 10:10:57 pm

Youkai: 2012-03-28 10:04:34 pm

Youkai: 2012-03-28 10:03:40 pm

2012-03-28 10:03:18 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

You farm 3 Kotetsu as soon as you get back from Barhiem passage and have Basch in your party. You take 3 people to the Giza plains and save at that crystal one screen away from the two warewolves. So I have them basically from the start. It makes the early boss fights much simpler. Near the end they start not doing quite so good but by the time I switch them for Fomalhaut they are about even with the standard weapons for that time. So the first time I really use them is on the Leviathan when I'm recovering Ashe since I don't fight anyone in Lhusu Mines. And yeah you just fight them normally using the Fire Staff as your weapon. Once you get a Kotetsu you can equip it and that makes farming the second and third go a little easier. It's a little tricky drawing just one so you don't get tore up by them but I managed to find a pretty reliable way to fight one of the two at a time.

Also I've decided that Dark Shot isn't worth getting. Seems like most bosses at the end of the game absorb Dark so I'm switching my ammo almost every fight. Not worth it.

EDIT: ~~Where do you get Assassin Dagger?~~ Found it at the weapon shop. I will definitely give that a try and see if it does any good.

EDIT 2: Ok just tested it. Not worth getting the daggers. The activation rate is really terrible even with daggers on two people so I'd still have to do safe pulls. At best it could save me 15 seconds each Kotetsu for a total savings of 45 seconds and it would take me about that long to buy/license/equip them. So at best it's a wash that costs me money.

You farm 3 Kotetsu as soon as you get back from Barhiem passage and have Basch in your party. You take 3 people to the Giza plains and save at that crystal one screen away from the two warewolves. So I have them basically from the start. It makes the early boss fights much simpler. Near the end they start not doing quite so good but by the time I switch them for Fomalhaut they are about even with the standard weapons for that time. So the first time I really use them is on the Leviathan when I'm recovering Ashe since I don't fight anyone in Lhusu Mines. And yeah you just fight them normally using the Fire Staff as your weapon. Once you get a Kotetsu you can equip it and that makes farming the second and third go a little easier. It's a little tricky drawing just one so you don't get tore up by them but I managed to find a pretty reliable way to fight one of the two at a time.

Also I've decided that Dark Shot isn't worth getting. Seems like most bosses at the end of the game absorb Dark so I'm switching my ammo almost every fight. Not worth it.

EDIT: [s]Where do you get Assassin Dagger?[/s] Found it at the weapon shop. I will definitely give that a try and see if it does any good.

EDIT 2: Ok just tested it. Not worth getting the daggers. The activation rate is really terrible even with daggers on two people so I'd still have to do safe pulls. At best it could save me 15 seconds each Kotetsu for a total savings of 45 seconds and it would take me about that long to buy/license/equip them. So at best it's a wash that costs me money.

jceresa2

2012-03-29 07:44:41 am

Depending on how much luck manipulation you want to try for the assasins daggers can cause a one hit KO but since you are also farming kotetsus it is probably not a great idea.