FEZ

2013-05-01 08:40:04 pm

Depending on how much I enjoy it I'll be interested in running this as well :).

KEURQUE

2013-05-01 08:51:59 pm

I'm a boy and I play video games.

Keep us posted Sloth (and Freddeh). I'm definitely interested in seeing a run of this. Are you planning to do a 100% run?

Edit history:

Sloth: 2013-05-01 11:44:16 pm

Sloth: 2013-05-01 11:41:40 pm

2013-05-01 11:40:30 pm

First off, just a note to people this entire thread is going to contain very large amounts of spoilers that may likely ruin your casual playthrough of this game. The very bestpart of this game is the solving of puzzles and exploreation, do not read on unless you're okay with this

Now on to speedrunning. So for categories, there of course will be any% which is just get 32 cubes and go to the end but this game has potential for a couple of other categories. Probably most obviously 100% or for this game, 209.4% which is maximum completion, this is all cubes, aanti cubes, red cubes and artifacts. Artifacts don't actually factor into percentage though, so it could be argued they shouldn't be included but I personally think they should. I have encountered a bit of a problem with 209.4% though, four anti cubes found at the clock tower are only obtainable at specific times, based on your system clock. This means that you would have to close the game and edit your systems time to obtain these cubes. Also, its quite apparant anti cubes are mostly the way to go for any %, three anti cubes are obtainable in the Village, so another possible category could be All Reg Cubes or alternatively, all Anti Cubes..

First off, just a note to people this entire thread is going to contain very large amounts of spoilers that may likely ruin your casual playthrough of this game. The very bestpart of this game is the solving of puzzles and exploreation, do not read on unless you're okay with this
 
Now on to speedrunning. So for categories,  there of course will be any% which is just get 32 cubes and go to the end but this game has potential for a couple of other categories. Probably most obviously 100% or for this game, 209.4% which is maximum completion, this is all cubes, aanti cubes, red cubes and artifacts. Artifacts don't actually factor into percentage though, so it could be argued they shouldn't be included but I personally think they should. I have encountered a bit of a problem with 209.4% though, four anti cubes found at the clock tower are only obtainable at specific times, based on your system clock. This means that you would have to close the game and edit your systems time to obtain these cubes. Also, its quite apparant anti cubes are mostly the way to go for any %, three anti cubes are obtainable in the Village, so another possible category could be All Reg Cubes or alternatively, all Anti Cubes..

Edit history:

qbicfeet: 2013-05-02 08:03:56 am

2013-05-02 08:03:28 am

I just did an any% 32 cube run that clocked 1 hour 7 minutes on the save file timer. There's a lot of polishing to be done. I got some notes on bit and cube locations, but I'd rather keep them for myself until I'm confident enough with my runs Smiley

For any% runs, I suggest that timing should start when you begin a new game and stop the moment you exit the door just before the ending sequence (this is the last input you have to make in the game).

ProfessorBroman

2013-05-02 08:30:25 am

I'll be de-rusting on this game the next couple of days, hopefully then i'll have some meaningful things to contribute! Hopefully the finished run will be just as mind bending and impressive as the game itself!

2013-05-02 12:35:26 pm

Im good with those timings for the start and beggining of the run. I would be interested in the cubes and bits you are getting in your current route though. There is a lot of freedom in this game as far as getting cubes so a very large amount of testing is gonna meed to be done to figure out which is fastest.

2013-05-02 01:32:52 pm

Currently uploading my first real run, clocked 46:25,88 using the timing I mentioned above. My game crashed once and I did a few big mistakes, but you have to start somewhere! Looking forward to some competitive fighting over the WR.

2013-05-02 04:17:15 pm

The video is currently being processed, but I'm dropping off a link before I go to bed:

gleebzz

2013-05-02 08:34:58 pm

i did my first play through today and ill start running this weekend. love this game. really great for speed running. nice run qbicfeet! i came on here looking to see if a timing system has been worked out and it has. thanks for the info. ill post my first decent speedrun (sub 50) when it happens.

2013-05-02 08:59:05 pm

Still haven't finished my first playthrough yet, but have been looking at the possibilities. Looking forward to running this myself :).

UberGoose

2013-05-02 09:38:20 pm

Hey, qbic, that run is very impressive. One concern I have is optimized routing. This game, having 64 available cubes, has some that are clearly faster than others and some that are very close in time, not to mention cube to cube times are what really matter as there is no real fast travel aside from going back to warp zones. This means that we have an insanely high amount of potential routes. I really think there are a few cubes that didn't seem fast enough in your route. I also think bits are only worth it if the sum of the bits is faster than one potential full cube (duh) and there were a few that you got that didn't fall into that category.

Any thoughts on this? I really do like that you offered us a real starting point for a route, though. Again, great job.

2013-05-03 01:03:48 am

Quote from UberGoose:

Hey, qbic, that run is very impressive. One concern I have is optimized routing. This game, having 64 available cubes, has some that are clearly faster than others and some that are very close in time, not to mention cube to cube times are what really matter as there is no real fast travel aside from going back to warp zones. This means that we have an insanely high amount of potential routes. I really think there are a few cubes that didn't seem fast enough in your route. I also think bits are only worth it if the sum of the bits is faster than one potential full cube (duh) and there were a few that you got that didn't fall into that category.

Any thoughts on this? I really do like that you offered us a real starting point for a route, though. Again, great job.

Yeah, there's definitely some route optimization to do. The waterfall area feels like a solid starting point, with 4 easy and quick cubes and the water-lowering pivot that unlocks another two relatively quick and easy cubes. After that there are a lot of different possible directions to go. The windmill area in particular felt slow.

One thing I want to address are the clock tower cubes. I think that tampering with the system time in order to unlock the 4 cubes quickly feels like cheating. It's inevitable for 100% but unless everyone can agree that changing the system clock is okay I would rather avoid them if possible.

[quote="UberGoose"]Hey, qbic, that run is very impressive. One concern I have is optimized routing. This game, having 64 available cubes, has some that are clearly faster than others and some that are very close in time, not to mention cube to cube times are what really matter as there is no real fast travel aside from going back to warp zones. This means that we have an insanely high amount of potential routes. I really think there are a few cubes that didn't seem fast enough in your route. I also think bits are only worth it if the sum of the bits is faster than one potential full cube (duh) and there were a few that you got that didn't fall into that category.

Any thoughts on this? I really do like that you offered us a real starting point for a route, though. Again, great job.[/quote]
Yeah, there's definitely some route optimization to do. The waterfall area feels like a solid starting point, with 4 easy and quick cubes and the water-lowering pivot that unlocks another two relatively quick and easy cubes. After that there are a lot of different possible directions to go. The windmill area in particular felt slow.

One thing I want to address are the clock tower cubes. I think that tampering with the system time in order to unlock the 4 cubes quickly feels like cheating. It's inevitable for 100% but unless everyone can agree that changing the system clock is okay I would rather avoid them if possible.

gleebzz

2013-05-03 05:27:06 am

Quote:

One thing I want to address are the clock tower cubes. I think that tampering with the system time in order to unlock the 4 cubes quickly feels like cheating. It's inevitable for 100% but unless everyone can agree that changing the system clock is okay I would rather avoid them if possible.

i completely agree with this. changing the system clock is not a glitch. its going outside the game to change time. it would just feel dirty.

2013-05-03 08:34:30 am

I completely disagree. These are cubes places into the game by the developers and this is the only way to a actually get them. Most of the other people I was routing this game with agree and I will be getting these cubes in my route unless a specific SDA rule banning this exists. Its not a cheat or even a glitch. Everyone has the exact same ability to use this. Feeling dirty isnt a valid reason not to use this in a speedrun.

z1mb0bw4y

Edit history:

z1mb0bw4y: 2013-05-03 08:49:56 am

2013-05-03 08:44:32 am

Gets the cake.

Quote from Sloth:

I completely disagree. These are cubes places into the game by the developers and this is the only way to a actually get them. Most of the other people I was routing this game with agree and I will be getting these cubes in my route unless a specific SDA rule banning this exists. Its not a cheat or even a glitch. Everyone has the exact same ability to use this. Feeling dirty isnt a valid reason not to use this in a speedrun.

Do these cubes REQUIRE you to change the system time? If so, then that's a cool game mechanic, and those cubes would be fine to get as long as you include changing your system settings in your run time.

edit: after some research, it seems as though there's a precedent set for this, at least for segmented runs. https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/metal_gear_solid_3_snake_eater__may_16th_2011.html

So TL;DR, setting the system clock would be allowed in at least segmented runs. Gonna go search for threads for SS runs.

2013-05-03 08:50:11 am

Ya, you have to change your time to realistically get more than two of them. This time change also wildly affects the game time, by like days. It just means we will use real time rather than game time. Also, seeing as this is a pc game, loading times will need to be timed and removed from your overall run time to make sure nobody has and advantage based on computer system. Not an issue in these early stages but it will be eventually.

Edit history:

qbicfeet: 2013-05-03 01:12:42 pm

2013-05-03 09:22:50 am

You can change the system clock while the game is still running and have the changes take effect immediately (I tested during my first 209,4% run on PC), so it's not a huge hassle. It just feels "dirty".

Edit: Did another run using the same route (with some tiny adjustments to the waterfall area), managed to shave it down to 41:41. I have a recording but I don't think I am going to upload it yet.

ProfessorBroman

Edit history:

ProfessorBroman: 2013-05-03 03:47:27 pm

2013-05-03 03:42:28 pm

So, I'm just throwing this out. But for SS wouldn't it make more sense to mess with the system time and then hit the clock in game at the right time during the run. Ultimately this would be faster than pausing and changing it anyway.

halfbakedprophet

2013-05-03 04:47:28 pm

If you're going to bother hitting the clock at all wouldn't you get all four cubes?

2013-05-04 03:29:23 am

I just finished my first SS run after finally finishing routing. Time came in at 36:58.1 A lot of easy time save-able in tons of places but the route is pretty good. I'll upload tomorrow.

2013-05-04 03:36:16 am

This is getting faster and faster very quickly...nice time!

2013-05-04 05:30:34 am

Quote from Sloth:

I just finished my first SS run after finally finishing routing. Time came in at 36:58.1 A lot of easy time save-able in tons of places but the route is pretty good. I'll upload tomorrow.

Clock Tower + loading time removal, no?

2013-05-04 01:25:40 pm

Here is the Highlight http://www.twitch.tv/decidedsloth/c/2242270
No, this time is with loading times included. But ya, of course I used clock tower, it's 5 cubes in like 2min.