Exile Trilogy

2007-04-09 04:08:46 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Does anybody remember this trilogy done by SpiderWeb Software? I loved that game, and have been considering doing a speed run of it, but I don't really know if anyone would be interested in seeing a speed run. It's really old, and didn't get near the attention it deserved. :-/ Post here if you'd like to see it, and I'll considered making a run.

Thread title:

laughing_gas

2007-04-09 04:14:27 am

Existence as you know it is over

Isn't it shareware though? Maybe freewareruns might be better suited for this discussion?

Semnae

2007-04-09 04:24:28 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

The full trilogy is still being sold for $25 on their website, so it's not really freeware.

ToxicFrog

2007-04-09 04:33:56 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

@Semnae; I didn't really like Exile, but wouldn't mind seeing a speedrun of it.
@laughing_gas: it's shareware, not freeware - the first chunk of each game is available for free, but to play the whole thing you need to buy it. Geneforge (also by Spiderweb, and in my opinion vastly superior) uses the same system. (The classic Apogee games didn't - the first game was available in its entirety for free and subsequent games ('episodes') had to be bought. Spiderweb gives you the first eighth or so of each episode.)

Semnae

Edit history:

Semnae: 2007-04-09 04:42:19 am

2007-04-09 04:40:16 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I haven't played Geneforge yet. Maybe I'll pick that one up. Cheesy

$55 is kind of expensive for a retro game though, even if it is the whole trilogy.

laughing_gas

2007-04-09 02:47:00 pm

Existence as you know it is over

Sorry ... I must've confused shareware with freeware.

Semnae

Edit history:

Semnae: 2007-04-14 12:49:26 am

2007-04-13 09:36:15 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I started working on the first game, Exile: Escape fromt the Pit, by looking at different maps and walkthroughs. I managed to find a tile for tile map of all of Exile! This will be very useful for figuring out how to get from place to place in the fastest way possible.

I also played through the game using the character editor to figure out the conditions for victory. This was important because I haven't played the game in a while. Working backwards, here's what needs to be accomplished.

To get to the exit, I need a 4 part password and to bypass Sulfras, the dragon. Sulfras can be bypassed either by killing him, or getting him the onyx scepter and silver circlet. Killing him would be the fastest way, but probably cannot be done at a low level. I think it would probably be faster to get him what he wants rather than spending the time leveling to defeat him.

Athron has the first part of the password. All I have to do is ask him for it. I can get to his lair by boat using a secret passage.

Aimee has the second part. To get to her I have to go to the Giant Castle to get the key, then use it to steal a boat to the East.

Patrick has the third part, but he won't give it to me until I cure his wife, for which I need the graymold salve. To make graymold salve, I need graymold and the recipe. I need one of my characters to have enough mage lore and alchemy to get the recipe and make the salve.

Erika has the fourth part. She won't give you the password until you're a member of Scimitar, and to join Scimitar you have to smash the orb at the Gremlin Cave and then go to Spire. To get dispel barrier, I need to go to Swamp City, get the tome there, and bring it to Fort Dranlon.

If I can defeat Sulfras quickly, I don't need to do these following steps:

To get the the silver circlet, I need to go through the arena 4 times and then talk to Scab in Spire. The biggest challenge this way will be killing a basilisk that can turn my characters to stone. Then I can get the key to the west, and go all the way to Asp in Cotra to learn how to disarm the trap guarding the circlet. I have to then go all the way back to Spire to get the circlet.

To get the onyx scepter, I need to talk to Kelner in the Tower of Magi and ask him about Haakai. Then I can get the password to get into the Forgotten Tower to the East. I then need to travel all the way to the Forgotten Tower (To get here I'll need to get a boat at Fort Draco) and get he Crystal Key. After that, I need to travel all the way back to the Tower of Magi and get the Onyx Scepter. I don't actually have to fight the Haakai, and can just grab the Scepter and run.

I've been thinking a little bit about character creation, and I've determined the fastest way to beat the game is to go with 5 mages and a priest. Why? Fireball. They can attack multiple enemies at once while being nowhere near them. In addition to this, they require very little equipment to be effective. Mages can cast unlock, but I might need to consider having a thief in the party if I have a nasty time with traps. If I can get it in a timely manner, the Stealth spell would also be incredibly useful.

Edit: Using the character editor I've determined that you need at least 10 points of mage lore which can be distributed throughout your entire party to get the graymold recipe. You also need 6 points of alchemy on a single character to make the graymold salve.

Boats are 350 Gold and Stealth can be bought in the Tower of Magi for 400 gold. Major Haste can be bought in the same place for 500 gold. When I ask about supplies at the beginning of the game, he gives me 100 gold and equipment. If I sell all that equipment, I can get an additional 66 gold. Stealth and Major Haste are both level 5 spells.

I started working on the first game, Exile: Escape fromt the Pit, by looking at different maps and walkthroughs.  I managed to find a tile for tile map of all of Exile!  This will be very useful for figuring out how to get from place to place in the fastest way possible.

I also played through the game using the character editor to figure out the conditions for victory.  This was important because I haven't played the game in a while.  Working backwards, here's what needs to be accomplished.

To get to the exit, I need a 4 part password and to bypass Sulfras, the dragon.  Sulfras can be bypassed either by killing him, or getting him the onyx scepter and silver circlet.  Killing him would be the fastest way, but probably cannot be done at a low level.  I think it would probably be faster to get him what he wants rather than spending the time leveling to defeat him.

Athron has the first part of the password.  All I have to do is ask him for it.  I can get to his lair by boat using a secret passage.

Aimee has the second part.  To get to her I have to go to the Giant Castle to get the key, then use it to steal a boat to the East.

Patrick has the third part, but he won't give it to me until I cure his wife, for which I need the graymold salve.  To make graymold salve, I need graymold and the recipe.  I need one of my characters to have enough mage lore and alchemy to get the recipe and make the salve.

Erika has the fourth part.  She won't give you the password until you're a member of Scimitar, and to join Scimitar you have to smash the orb at the Gremlin Cave and then go to Spire.  To get dispel barrier, I need to go to Swamp City, get the tome there, and bring it to Fort Dranlon.

If I can defeat Sulfras quickly, I don't need to do these following steps:

To get the the silver circlet, I need to go through the arena 4 times and then talk to Scab in Spire.  The biggest challenge this way will be killing a basilisk that can turn my characters to stone.  Then I can get the key to the west, and go all the way to Asp in Cotra to learn how to disarm the trap guarding the circlet.  I have to then go all the way back to Spire to get the circlet.

To get the onyx scepter, I need to talk to Kelner in the Tower of Magi and ask him about Haakai.  Then I can get the password to get into the Forgotten Tower to the East.  I then need to travel all the way to the Forgotten Tower (To get here I'll need to get a boat at Fort Draco) and get he Crystal Key.  After that, I need to travel all the way back to the Tower of Magi and get the Onyx Scepter.  I don't actually have to fight the Haakai, and can just grab the Scepter and run.

I've been thinking a little bit about character creation, and I've determined the fastest way to beat the game is to go with 5 mages and a priest.  Why?  Fireball.  They can attack multiple enemies at once while being nowhere near them.  In addition to this, they require very little equipment to be effective.  Mages can cast unlock, but I might need to consider having a thief in the party if I have a nasty time with traps.  If I can get it in a timely manner, the Stealth spell would also be incredibly useful.

Edit:  Using the character editor I've determined that you need at least 10 points of mage lore which can be distributed throughout your entire party to get the graymold recipe.  You also need 6 points of alchemy on a single character to make the graymold salve.

Boats are 350 Gold and Stealth can be bought in the Tower of Magi for 400 gold.  Major Haste can be bought in the same place for 500 gold.  When I ask about supplies at the beginning of the game, he gives me 100 gold and equipment.  If I sell all that equipment, I can get an additional 66 gold.  Stealth and Major Haste are both level 5 spells.

moozooh

2007-04-15 07:10:52 pm

Hail Discordia!

Whether it will be published or not, I really look forward to seeing the trilogy run'd. I played it through a couple of times in late 90s, and it was really awesome. The games, especially the 3rd, are large, though, so it should a tough project to undertake.

Regarding the party, don't forget that the more people are in it, the more hassle it is to look out for them (especially when it comes to food). I also don't remember if the spells you buy are spread between all the casters.

curi

Edit history:

curi: 2014-06-10 06:40:07 am

2014-06-10 06:30:08 am

hi, i just did my first timed run of exile 1. i've been working on it for a while. i got 2:14:27 from create new party button to victory message (talking to king micah after killing grah-hoth). no recording. playing the old classic mac version on an old power PC computer, haven't figured out recording for it yet. posted notes on the exile forums, mostly here: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/20606-exile-1-grah-hoth-speedrun-route/

my run involved some big errors. runs under 2 hours are easily possible.

the game is freeware now. be warned though, the windows version of exile 1, while much easier to get running, is missing a bunch of hotkeys. i tried it for a bit but it was really annoying. exile 2 or 3 may be better, i haven't checked b/c my windows VM broke and i have a working mac versions anyway.

i don't agree at all with the guy above who says 5 mages and fireball. i basically abuse the hell out of bless/haste/protection with 5 casters and 1 melee fighter dual wielding edged weapons who actually kills everything. doing damage with spells takes tons of mana. i did not cast a damage spell in my entire run. melee combat goes really fast with the sound off anyway and make the fighter the only active character.

if you want gold you can rob formello and motrax. i skipped both of those in my run but they are worth like 7500 gold ballpark. i was low on gold in the middle of my run but had like 2500 extra at the end without robbing stuff, so i'm not sure there's much reason to worry about gold. i got the formello reward and sold the silver prot ring from the early dungeon.

i have not experimented with the stealth spell and i'm not that clear on what it'd be useful for, will listen if someone has a specific idea about what to do with it. but i have tested a lot of other stuff carefully and looked at the blades of exile source code, see: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/13484-code-dissection-munchkin-style/

i have not yet routed the other 2 victory options (assassination or escape). last time i did them was years ago. i kinda suspect they may be slower/harder but i don't really know. i plan to investigate them.

to answer moozooh, spell purchases go to a single guy but that isn't really a problem. basically you only need to buy a spell for one guy and then feed him mana potions. spells you get from tomes with mage lore (major blessing for 5 mage lore and protection for 8) go to full party.

is anyone here interested in this? e.g. if i figured out how to record a run would people watch it?

hi, i just did my first timed run of exile 1. i've been working on it for a while. i got 2:14:27 from create new party button to victory message (talking to king micah after killing grah-hoth). no recording. playing the old classic mac version on an old power PC computer, haven't figured out recording for it yet. posted notes on the exile forums, mostly here: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/20606-exile-1-grah-hoth-speedrun-route/

my run involved some big errors. runs under 2 hours are easily possible.

the game is freeware now. be warned though, the windows version of exile 1, while much easier to get running, is missing a bunch of hotkeys. i tried it for a bit but it was really annoying. exile 2 or 3 may be better, i haven't checked b/c my windows VM broke and i have a working mac versions anyway.

i don't agree at all with the guy above who says 5 mages and fireball. i basically abuse the hell out of bless/haste/protection with 5 casters and 1 melee fighter dual wielding edged weapons who actually kills everything. doing damage with spells takes tons of mana. i did not cast a damage spell in my entire run. melee combat goes really fast with the sound off anyway and make the fighter the only active character.

if you want gold you can rob formello and motrax. i skipped both of those in my run but they are worth like 7500 gold ballpark. i was low on gold in the middle of my run but had like 2500 extra at the end without robbing stuff, so i'm not sure there's much reason to worry about gold. i got the formello reward and sold the silver prot ring from the early dungeon.

i have not experimented with the stealth spell and i'm not that clear on what it'd be useful for, will listen if someone has a specific idea about what to do with it. but i have tested a lot of other stuff carefully and looked at the blades of exile source code, see: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/13484-code-dissection-munchkin-style/

i have not yet routed the other 2 victory options (assassination or escape). last time i did them was years ago. i kinda suspect they may be slower/harder but i don't really know. i plan to investigate them.

to answer moozooh, spell purchases go to a single guy but that isn't really a problem. basically you only need to buy a spell for one guy and then feed him mana potions. spells you get from tomes with mage lore (major blessing for 5 mage lore and protection for 8) go to full party.

is anyone here interested in this? e.g. if i figured out how to record a run would people watch it?

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2014-06-10 10:08:00 am

2014-06-10 07:03:31 am

sda loyalist

Wow, I recently (few months ago) got into Spiderweb's stuff but I'm more interested in Geneforge right now. I'm thinking of choosing it as my next speedrun project, having written my own game editor to parse the maps and see where items are etc.

I'm excited to see more of their games being tackled!

I take it Exile uses the same forced-fullscreen as Geneforge? If so, using DXWnd can let you force the game windowed and/or enable recording with FRAPS.

Edit: Apologies, not sure how I missed that you were on a Mac. I know nothing about Mac recording software.

curi

Edit history:

curi: 2014-06-10 07:14:04 am

2014-06-10 07:11:42 am

i'm playing on a power PC *MAC* (pre-intel). OS X 10.4, and exile is running in classic mode. it's not fullscreen for exile 1. i don't know what to record with on old macs though. i own Snapz from ambrosia, maybe it'd be possible to find an old version (the new one on their website won't run on OS X 10.4), does anyone know if that's a good idea? i don't really know anything about recording on mac except i've used snapz a little and i did a little twitch streaming on a newer mac but the free software for that sucked, way way worse than OBS.

curi

2014-06-16 02:56:57 am

second run of Exile 1 was 1:30:12. game is way shorter than i thought in past and while routing. sub 1:15 possible for sure.

run info:

for the route now, i skipped the bandit fort. silvar first for the sword + 30 gold on armor + 70 gold of food (enough for whole game), then just straight to the bronze key dungeon then the main neph fort. then sell/train, get energy pots and spells at formello, steel saber at draco. then dispel barrier, orb of thralni, and straight into slith castle. then take boat left and run down through fort emerald, visit castle then sell/train at almaria and buy a big pile of mana pots. then go get protection, revive and athame. then back the other way for heartfinder, revive all and fort remote. then up to set grah free, get giants boat, then go kill grah. [after the run i realized i think you can skip giants boat using thralni to cross the river down near erika]

new party build. paren is level. brackets is number you see and spells above level 3. numbers are totals except hp numbers are skill points to spend.

ftr: 12str 4dex 4edged 5traps (1). 9edged 6dex 7traps (5). 14edged 19str hp
mage/priest: 1mage 3priest 4int 4magelore 25mana [13] 13hp [32]. hp
mage/priest: 1mage 3priest 4int 4magelore 25mana [13] 13hp [32]. hp
mage: 7mage 4int 9hp [24] (1). 4hp (2). 6int (3). mana [slow group, protection, major blessing]
mage: 7mage 4int 9hp [24] (1). 4hp (2). 6int (3). mana [slow group, protection, major blessing]
priest: 7priest 6int 10hp [26] (1). 5hp (2). mana [cure all poison, revive, revive all]

i finished the run at levels 20/6/6/6/6/6

second run of Exile 1 was 1:30:12. game is way shorter than i thought in past and while routing. sub 1:15 possible for sure.

run info:

for the route now, i skipped the bandit fort. silvar first for the sword + 30 gold on armor + 70 gold of food (enough for whole game), then just straight to the bronze key dungeon then the main neph fort. then sell/train, get energy pots and spells at formello, steel saber at draco. then dispel barrier, orb of thralni, and straight into slith castle. then take boat left and run down through fort emerald, visit castle then sell/train at almaria and buy a big pile of mana pots. then go get protection, revive and athame. then back the other way for heartfinder, revive all and fort remote. then up to set grah free, get giants boat, then go kill grah. [after the run i realized i think you can skip giants boat using thralni to cross the river down near erika]

new party build. paren is level. brackets is number you see and spells above level 3. numbers are totals except hp numbers are skill points to spend.

ftr: 12str 4dex 4edged 5traps (1). 9edged 6dex 7traps (5). 14edged 19str hp
mage/priest: 1mage 3priest 4int 4magelore 25mana [13] 13hp [32]. hp
mage/priest: 1mage 3priest 4int 4magelore 25mana [13] 13hp [32]. hp
mage: 7mage 4int 9hp [24] (1). 4hp (2). 6int (3). mana  [slow group, protection, major blessing]
mage: 7mage 4int 9hp [24] (1). 4hp (2). 6int (3). mana  [slow group, protection, major blessing]
priest: 7priest 6int 10hp [26] (1). 5hp (2). mana       [cure all poison, revive, revive all]

i finished the run at levels 20/6/6/6/6/6

curi

2014-06-16 06:39:41 am

got 1:09:27 skipping heartfinder and giants and doing the hard fights better (e.g. pre-buff A LOT more hastes on fighter for grah-hoth). i now think sub 1 hr is possible. around 65min with no significant mistakes, then play real well and don't get unlucky can prob do it.

NMS

2014-06-17 09:03:29 am

curi, I found the older version of Snapz Pro X. I've used it and it works pretty well. It's limited to 30 fps, but that should be fine for these games. You have to encode or discard the raw file before you can make a new recording, so fiddle with the encoding settings and post a quality test in Tech Support. I look forward to seeing the results.

Lag.Com, I've played through Geneforge 2 and 3, and I've been meaning to finish the others. I had some ideas about running them, so I started a thread.

curi

Edit history:

curi: 2014-06-17 05:10:45 pm

2014-06-17 04:39:08 pm

Thanks! I've gotten snapz working. in case anyone else uses it, FYI some codecs error with 256 colors 848x480 resolution in snapz and you have to upgrade from OS X 10.4.0 to 10.4.11. for example h264 does not work. apple mpeg codec seems to work ok. more than 30 FPS would actually be good sometimes because of how fast you can move in this game, but i think it's ok.

i'm new here and don't know about quality tests. i just did a run and put on youtube. will do more runs anyway, doesn't really matter yet.

got 56:39. I'm amazed how short the game is turning out:

actually i just read SDA rules, it's 55:06 with SDA timing that doesn't count character creation. (my splits are on another computer BTW).

i'll try to get a better run on SDA later. i just looked into quality test stuff a little. it seems you have to make different resolution videos. snapz won't handle that. i probably need to tell snapz to do no encoding, then encode on another computer with modern software like iMovie. or actually i think it said i could upload without encoding. i'll try no encoding next run and see about submitting a sample.

Thanks! I've gotten snapz working. in case anyone else uses it, FYI some codecs error with 256 colors 848x480 resolution in snapz and you have to upgrade from OS X 10.4.0 to 10.4.11. for example h264 does not work. apple mpeg codec seems to work ok. more than 30 FPS would actually be good sometimes because of how fast you can move in this game, but i think it's ok.

i'm new here and don't know about quality tests. i just did a run and put on youtube. will do more runs anyway, doesn't really matter yet.

got 56:39. I'm amazed how short the game is turning out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0m3De1fQzc&feature=youtu.be

actually i just read SDA rules, it's 55:06 with SDA timing that doesn't count character creation. (my splits are on another computer BTW).

i'll try to get a better run on SDA later. i just looked into quality test stuff a little. it seems you have to make different resolution videos. snapz won't handle that. i probably need to tell snapz to do no encoding, then encode on another computer with modern software like iMovie. or actually i think it said i could upload without encoding. i'll try no encoding next run and see about submitting a sample.

curi

2014-06-17 05:01:08 pm

i have a rules question. i only know one useful glitch and i'm not sure if it's allowed. if you load a saved game, then start a new game, your maps carry over, letting you see where to go easier. no maps in the game are random so this isn't very important, but it's convenient. i'm not sure if this glitch is allowable because it requires having a save file already made to use it. does that make it cheating?

ShadowWraith

2014-06-18 10:55:50 am

.

So far ruling for glitches that require save-stuffing is that gameplay on the setup saves needs to be timed for the glitch to be used. See: Earthbound's stair clip glitch.

It doesn't make much difference to the gameplay but since it's the same type of glitch, we'd disallow it.