European Speedster Assembly 2014

ontwoplanks

Edit history:

ontwoplanks: 2014-08-07 06:36:16 pm

ontwoplanks: 2014-08-07 06:32:54 pm

ontwoplanks: 2014-08-07 06:27:23 pm

ontwoplanks: 2014-08-07 06:24:49 pm

ontwoplanks: 2014-08-07 06:24:37 pm

2014-08-04 04:14:10 pm

As always I'll keep remarks short and sweet

Slightly revised/reworded from first try.

Social areas

Daytime housekeeping - is needed. Volunteers or a paid cleaner, doesn't matter.
Air Conditioning - needs to be accounted for. Perhaps the mooted change of venue will help this.
Wifi access - needs properly planned throughout the venue and included in the package
Projectors - really helped avoid laptop warriors being a bigger problem. Sitting in a stream room isn't something most people want to do all day and it helped draw the runs out to the social areas rather than locking them away.
Wristbands - festival-style cotton next year please!
Formal BYOC PC area - for a handful of people to pre-book and setup with proper network hookup etc

Tech

1080p60 - Each stream PC needs to be able to capture it. Unfair to enforce blurry 720p on runners.
Keep 2nd stream simple - On yellow, no races or multi-system capture (except rtmp). The room was torn to bits every time there was a race setup adding unreasonable demand on setup time and tech crew
Tech volunteers - Lack of helpers in spite of the skype group. I hope I wasn't too scary Smiley

Appeal locally - An event like this is valuable work experience for someone who is studying uni/hospital radio or live production. There needs to be more people around who have operated a mixer before.
Power distribution - This was a fire hazard that caused 2 trips due to overcurrent. Get someone with knowledge of swedish regs to layout a floor plan for PC, Console and Stream areas and stick to it.

Charity (just a thought)

Register Ludendi as a charity - a fundraising organisation in itself. Keep a small amount of donations as cover towards running the event and donate the rest to a local good cause, like a Gothenburg children's hospital ward. It keeps the cozy, local vibe and makes the event stand out as doing something different.

As always I'll keep remarks short and sweet

[i]Slightly revised/reworded from first try.[/i]

[u]Social areas[/u]

[b]Daytime housekeeping[/b] - is needed. Volunteers or a paid cleaner, doesn't matter.
[b]Air Conditioning[/b] - needs to be accounted for. Perhaps the mooted change of venue will help this.
[b]Wifi access[/b] - needs properly planned throughout the venue and included in the package
[b]Projectors[/b] - really helped avoid laptop warriors being a bigger problem. Sitting in a stream room isn't something most people want to do all day and it helped draw the runs out to the social areas rather than locking them away. 
[b]Wristbands[/b] - festival-style cotton next year please!
[b]Formal BYOC PC area[/b] - for a handful of people to pre-book and setup with proper network hookup etc

[u]Tech[/u]

[b]1080p60[/b] - Each stream PC needs to be able to capture it. Unfair to enforce blurry 720p on runners.
[b]Keep 2nd stream simple[/b] - On yellow, no races or multi-system capture (except rtmp). The room was torn to bits every time there was a race setup adding unreasonable demand on setup time and tech crew
[b]Tech volunteers[/b] - Lack of helpers in spite of the skype group. I hope I wasn't too scary :)
[b]Appeal locally[/b] - An event like this is valuable work experience for someone who is studying uni/hospital radio or live production. There needs to be more people around who have operated a mixer before.
[b]Power distribution[/b] - This was a fire hazard that caused 2 trips due to overcurrent. Get someone with knowledge of swedish regs to layout a floor plan for PC, Console and Stream areas and stick to it.

[u]Charity (just a thought)[/u]

[b]Register Ludendi as a charity[/b] - a fundraising organisation in itself. Keep a small amount of donations as cover towards running the event and donate the rest to a local good cause, like a Gothenburg children's hospital ward. It keeps the cozy, local vibe and makes the event stand out as doing something different.

curseddolls

Edit history:

curseddolls: 2014-08-04 11:14:43 pm

2014-08-04 11:12:53 pm

Quote from Duke Bilgewater:

Speaking of the laid-back atmosphere of ESA, I found that a lot of what was going on on the couch and in the background - from a few people - was disrespectful to the runner and led to the chat shitting the bed, especially on bonus stream. 80% of the time that I saw Curseddolls on stream, she was sitting in the front row or on the couch talking to chat on her phone and not paying attention to the run; during Eternal Darkness, she was on the couch and I had to stop watching the run because I found it really distasteful - even though it seemed that the runner himself didn't mind. I liked the runs where everyone was civil, engaged, and having a good time. There were multiple runs I watched during bonus stream where people were either mic'd or being picked up by a mic when they were just talking amongst themselves. Zoton's run of The Simpsons: Hit & Run was a pretty bad example of this. I don't know if I misread his reactions, but it looked like he was annoyed by people playing around behind him, laughing constantly, and messing with random shit in the room. I do like the more relaxed atmosphere of ESA, but this is distracting and disrespectful, even as a viewer.
Also, I don't agree that swearing is a big issue, especially at a marathon like ESA - which as far as I know isn't directly sponsored by anyone who would take offense to it. I think that the margin of viewers that might be offended by swearing is pretty small, but you never know. I'm pretty guilty of this myself, and I try to watch my mouth - but it's a little difficult in the thick of things.

I don't think you ever understood anything of what was going on so because of that you in a way have no right to complain.
During Zwajkens run before we started I asked him "is it ok if i use my mobile to read the chats questions and ask him them
during his run like a Q & A". Zwajken agreed and said it could be a nice touch to the stream and so we went for it.

During Simpsons Hit n Run I asked zoton several times if he was fine, and he had no "hate" or "dislike" to it what so ever.
He actually laughed to much of the things we did and was in the moment as much as the rest of us where.
If he had disliked it we would obviously had quiet down a lot but since he where fine with it we all had a fun and great time.

The moment you saw me with mobile on the stream (which actually was not that many times),
could it actually be because I am a moderator of the event and would like to know what is going on
in case it is something we should know so I could maybe help fix it as fast as possible?

Please think before you write.
As many stated during the run of Eternal Darkness.

Thank you

Cursed

[quote="Duke Bilgewater"]Speaking of the laid-back atmosphere of ESA, I found that a lot of what was going on on the couch and in the background - from a few people - was disrespectful to the runner and led to the chat shitting the bed, especially on bonus stream. 80% of the time that I saw Curseddolls on stream, she was sitting in the front row or on the couch talking to chat on her phone and not paying attention to the run; during Eternal Darkness, she was on the couch and I had to stop watching the run because I found it really distasteful - even though it seemed that the runner himself didn't mind. I liked the runs where everyone was civil, engaged, and having a good time. There were multiple runs I watched during bonus stream where people were either mic'd or being picked up by a mic when they were just talking amongst themselves. Zoton's run of The Simpsons: Hit & Run was a pretty bad example of this. I don't know if I misread his reactions, but it looked like he was annoyed by people playing around behind him, laughing constantly, and messing with random shit in the room. I do like the more relaxed atmosphere of ESA, but this is distracting and disrespectful, even as a viewer.
Also, I don't agree that swearing is a big issue, especially at a marathon like ESA - which as far as I know isn't directly sponsored by anyone who would take offense to it. I think that the margin of viewers that might be offended by swearing is pretty small, but you never know. I'm pretty guilty of this myself, and I try to watch my mouth - but it's a little difficult in the thick of things.[/quote]

I don't think you ever understood anything of what was going on so because of that you in a way have no right to complain.
During Zwajkens run before we started I asked him "is it ok if i use my mobile to read the chats questions and ask him them
during his run like a Q & A". Zwajken agreed and said it could be a nice touch to the stream and so we went for it.

During Simpsons Hit n Run I asked zoton several times if he was fine, and he had no "hate" or "dislike" to it what so ever.
He actually laughed to much of the things we did and was in the moment as much as the rest of us where.
If he had disliked it we would obviously had quiet down a lot but since he where fine with it we all had a fun and great time.

The moment you saw me with mobile on the stream (which actually was not that many times),
could it actually be because I am a moderator of the event and would like to know what is going on
in case it is something we should know so I could maybe help fix it as fast as possible?

Please think before you write.
As many stated during the run of Eternal Darkness.

Thank you

Cursed

Omnigamer

2014-08-04 11:23:30 pm

All the things

Quote from curseddolls:

I don't think you ever understood anything of what was going on so because of that you in a way have no right to complain.
During Zwajkens run before we started I asked him "is it ok if i use my mobile to read the chats questions and ask him them
during his run like a Q & A". Zwajken agreed and said it could be a nice touch to the stream and so we went for it.

During Simpsons Hit n Run I asked zoton several times if he was fine, and he had no "hate" or "dislike" to it what so ever.
He actually laughed to much of the things we did and was in the moment as much as the rest of us where.
If he had disliked it we would obviously had quiet down a lot but since he where fine with it we all had a fun and great time.

The moment you saw me with mobile on the stream (which actually was not that many times),
could it actually be because I am a moderator of the event and would like to know what is going on
in case it is something we should know so I could maybe help fix it as fast as possible?

Please think before you write.
As many stated during the run of Eternal Darkness.

Thank you

Cursed

Whether being on the phone or not was useful for something happening in the run is irrelevant. In this case, Duke was annoyed about it so he stated it. The point is that being on camera with a phone takes away from the atmosphere and makes the audience seem disinterested. I personally agree with him; being on camera with a phone is a negative as far as viewers are concerned, regardless of whether you think it's useful to the runs or the runners are OK with it.

[quote="curseddolls"]

I don't think you ever understood anything of what was going on so because of that you in a way have no right to complain.
During Zwajkens run before we started I asked him "is it ok if i use my mobile to read the chats questions and ask him them
during his run like a Q & A". Zwajken agreed and said it could be a nice touch to the stream and so we went for it.

During Simpsons Hit n Run I asked zoton several times if he was fine, and he had no "hate" or "dislike" to it what so ever.
He actually laughed to much of the things we did and was in the moment as much as the rest of us where.
If he had disliked it we would obviously had quiet down a lot but since he where fine with it we all had a fun and great time.

The moment you saw me with mobile on the stream (which actually was not that many times),
could it actually be because I am a moderator of the event and would like to know what is going on
in case it is something we should know so I could maybe help fix it as fast as possible?

Please think before you write.
As many stated during the run of Eternal Darkness.

Thank you

Cursed
[/quote]

Whether being on the phone or not was useful for something happening in the run is irrelevant. In this case, Duke was annoyed about it so he stated it. The point is that being on camera with a phone takes away from the atmosphere and makes the audience seem disinterested. I personally agree with him; being on camera with a phone is a negative as far as viewers are concerned, regardless of whether you think it's useful to the runs or the runners are OK with it.

mfcrocker

2014-08-05 03:10:56 am

Really small suggestion: add "Coming up: <Next Run> by <Next Runner> to the layout. Yeah it's lazy (in before just look at the schedule), but it'd be lovely to have that information on Twitch so that if I come in 10-20 mins before the end of a run I'm not that interested in I can see if it's worth sticking around.

D4rw1N

2014-08-05 03:25:39 am

I only have complaint so far (will make this a way better feedback post later on, I just have to blow off some steam now):

How about if you notice that someone accidentally is still logged in on one of the public computers at the venue, you do the one fucking decent thing possible and LOG THAT PERSON OUT. It's common sense and courtesy. DO NOT write threads in forums where you make it look like the logged in person openly admits he/she is gay, remove or change the name of or in any way alter every single bookmark the logged in person has. I'm sure that there's more, whoever decided it would be fun to fuck around with my Chrome account has done, that I have yet to notice. I encountered people's accounts being logged in on several occasions and did nothing but log that person out.

Whoever did it, please grow the fuck up.

Reed

2014-08-05 03:34:01 am

@tiburonCS

Quote from Cool Matty:

Event:
-Pick the charity, or the community. Trying to balance both is ruining it for everyone. You didn't get nearly as much money as you should have for this size and length of event. If compared to C4L it's really considered a failure for donations.

Excuse me?

Whether the donation total was "enough" is completely up to the organizers and their goals, if you drop the donations altogether then charity gets 0 and anything is better than 0. This just comes off really presumptuous.

People seem to be trying to do 1:1 comparison to an SDA marathon and it's really shitty imo.

RoboSparkle

2014-08-05 03:53:24 am

Magical. Flying. Bathtub

Quote from Gyoo:

Also for next year, please buy fly traps. The PC zone just looks like Binding of Isaac with all these flies

BibleThump

This. At one point during the BoI race I started shooting at a fly that turned out to be a real fly on the screen *FacePalm

ButtersBB

2014-08-05 04:44:51 am

Quote:

The moment you saw me with mobile on the stream (which actually was not that many times),
could it actually be because I am a moderator of the event and would like to know what is going on
in case it is something we should know so I could maybe help fix it as fast as possible?

It's not uncommon for someone to be doing moderation onsite... Off camera.

As for reading anything good from chat to the runner, that's what a host is for. There is especially plenty of time to do this when there aren't a bunch of donations to read.

KVD

Edit history:

KVD: 2014-08-05 04:08:31 pm

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:56:52 am

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:56:18 am

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:55:57 am

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:55:13 am

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:54:44 am

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:54:13 am

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:53:18 am

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:52:47 am

KVD: 2014-08-05 05:52:18 am

2014-08-05 05:51:57 am

Just wanted to drop by to give my 2 cents on the charity discussion.

I honestly think charity can still be a part of ESA without it being the omnipresent, 100% focus of the event. Contrarily, if it would be a lot more prominent it would just get on people's nerves (at least speaking for myself there). I don't need to be reminded every 5 seconds that the event is meant to raise money for cause X and that I can donate my money; it would just serve as overkill as thankfully most people happen to have better short-term memory than a fruitfly or common garden snail. And there's only so many ways that you can pitch the charity, so it just gets incredibly repetitive if mentioned too frequently. That's the way I feel when watching GDQ's if I am being completely honest. The way it was done this ESA was actually right on the spot if you ask me.
The only improvement I can think of would be reserving a small spot for the charity in the stream lay-out, so it'd be promoted without it needing constant mentions (kinda like the way football teams are sponsored).

Seriously, ~40k raised for DWB is nothing to be sneezed at whatsoever and does nothing to justify quitting the charity aspect altogether. People that go from door to door to raise money for a charity are not expected to fully dedicate their lives to it either right? Or should they just quit if they are not 100% focusing on that task? I mean it's great that we're doing it and perhaps most importantly, there are no negative consequences associated with dropping the focus from 90-100% to say 40-50%. We're still raising a lot of money and having fun in the meantime. Contrarily dropping the ball entirely for next ESA would be negative, as then DOB would be missing out on several 10ks.

/2 cents

Just wanted to drop by to give my 2 cents on the charity discussion.

I honestly think charity can still be a part of ESA without it being the omnipresent, 100% focus of the event. Contrarily, if it would be a lot more prominent it would just get on people's nerves (at least speaking for myself there). I don't need to be reminded every 5 seconds that the event is meant to raise money for cause X and that I can donate my money; it would just serve as overkill as thankfully most people happen to have better short-term memory than a fruitfly or common garden snail. And there's only so many ways that you can pitch the charity, so it just gets incredibly repetitive if mentioned too frequently. That's the way I feel when watching GDQ's if I am being completely honest. The way it was done this ESA was actually right on the spot if you ask me. 
The only improvement I can think of would be reserving a small spot for the charity in the stream lay-out, so it'd be promoted without it needing constant mentions (kinda like the way football teams are sponsored).

Seriously, ~40k raised for DWB is nothing to be sneezed at whatsoever and does nothing to justify quitting the charity aspect altogether. People that go from door to door to raise money for a charity are not expected to fully dedicate their lives to it either right? Or should they just quit if they are not 100% focusing on that task? I mean it's great that we're doing it and perhaps most importantly, there are no negative consequences associated with dropping the focus from 90-100% to say 40-50%. We're still raising a lot of money and having fun in the meantime. Contrarily dropping the ball entirely for next ESA would be negative, as then DOB would be missing out on several 10ks.

/2 cents

Joka

2014-08-05 05:53:11 am

Personal text

The good:
- Layouts overall
- We were pretty close to the original schedule the whole event, even though we had a few setup nightmares.
- Never noticed any audio issues on the blue stream and it hardly stole any setup time.
- Two streams worked out pretty well. Only having one stream whould've been too easy Tongue

- The fruit/vegetable/melon controls!

The bad:
- 3 and 4 player race layouts. It didn't help that we got the layouts hours before the streams were supposed to start.
- The heat (oh my god!). We went fan-hunting two of the days and couldn't find any!
- Tech crew and hardware (and maybe runs) were spread a little thin over two streams.
- Audio on the yellow stream was a bit shaky.
- Not enough TVs! We couldn't have 4+2 TVs in the stream rooms at all times because of that.
- Too hot in the stream rooms for people to sit there and watch runs they weren't already really interested in.
- People who didn't practice at all for their runs and we failing to mercy-kill them.
- People who didn't show up at all, without contacting us in advance! If your run is on the "final schedule" and you're not planning on coming - maybe send us a PM or something, ok?
- Donation incentives were apparently way too high in the beginning. But when we fixed it I feel a decent number of them got met.

[b]The good:[/b]
 - Layouts overall
 - We were pretty close to the original schedule the whole event, even though we had a few setup nightmares.
 - Never noticed any audio issues on the blue stream and it hardly stole any setup time.
 - Two streams worked out pretty well. Only having one stream whould've been too easy :P
 - The fruit/vegetable/melon controls!

[b]The bad:[/b]
 - 3 and 4 player race layouts. It didn't help that we got the layouts [i]hours[/i] before the streams were supposed to start.
 - The heat (oh my god!). We went fan-hunting two of the days and couldn't find any!
 - Tech crew and hardware (and maybe runs) were spread a little thin over two streams.
 - Audio on the yellow stream was a bit shaky.
 - Not enough TVs! We couldn't have 4+2 TVs in the stream rooms at all times because of that. 
 - Too hot in the stream rooms for people to sit there and watch runs they weren't already really interested in.
 - People who didn't practice at all for their runs and we failing to mercy-kill them.
 - People who didn't show up at all, without contacting us in advance! If your run is on the "final schedule" and you're not planning on coming - maybe send us a PM or something, ok?
 - Donation incentives were apparently way too high in the beginning. But when we fixed it I feel a decent number of them got met.

Tru3Magic

Edit history:

Tru3Magic: 2014-08-05 07:45:03 am

2014-08-05 06:11:19 am

twitch.tv/magicforever

Great marathon so far (as for viewer). Was kinda surprised that you used a few logos in "between runs sequence" from wallpapers I posted there Smiley

But as RamblingJosh said, "I feel like nobody outside of the community knew this was happening, and all the incidental people who jumped on board from say, twitch main page, were left floundering".

ESA needs more promotion, more info about event, website was updated only 2 or even less days prior to marathon. (and there must be BIG buttons on ludendi and esa channels that links to donation page and other stuff.)

mrhazuki

2014-08-05 06:43:19 am

I'd like to emphasize what Joka wrote.

Too few TVs. An event of this magnitude needs more TVs.

Hornet85

Edit history:

Hornet85: 2014-08-05 07:33:25 am

Hornet85: 2014-08-05 07:15:08 am

2014-08-05 07:13:47 am

This is my feedback as a viewer on Twitch.tv. I've watched as many run as I could every day of the events.

Overall I've enjoyed watching the events, and I think it's very well presented for most parts. I like the layouts, although I think it can be improved when it comes to 4 player co-op or competition. I feel that the game screen is too small and may not be ideal for anyone watching on say, a laptop or a tablet, where the screen area is smaller. It wasn't too bad when I view them full screen on a 24-inch monitor, but it certainly feels too small on a laptop screen.

I like the idea of having 2 channels, although at times it does feels like I'm missing out on what's going on at the other channel. I guess on the plus side, having 2 channels actually allows more runs to be conducted and so I will certainly not argue against it. More chances for the runners to do their run is always a welcome thing.

One positive thing that I would like highlight is the discussion segment on Yellow stream. The TAS segment has been very informative about TAS, and it changed my view on what TAS is really about, for the better. The Sonic stuff and Glitch segment was also great. As a new comer to speed running, these discussions have been invaluable to me. I hope we will see the same in future ESA events. Perhaps, may I suggest that the discussion segment starts off with a talk on what speed running is about. I think this can be very useful to the many viewers who are not speed runners, as well as clearing up any misconceptions people may have on speed running.

I like the laid back atmosphere during the runs, and one of my favorite runs was GTA Vice City. All the audience in the room was really into the game, and they occasionally goof around with singing along and reading out the in-game dialog. It's hard to explain in words, but I think you guys can get what I mean if you've watch that run. I just love the crowd. Anyway I'm just pointing this out as a good example of how the viewing crowd could add to the overall atmosphere. I understand that this is something that has to happen naturally and there's no way to "make it happen".

Anyway, here are some suggestions I have, which I hope can be helpful in some ways

Encourage future attendees to be courteous during a run.

I'm not trying to single out anyone in particular here, it’s just something I observed and I believe it can be improved on in the future. In future events, I think the organizers could perhaps remind all attendees to be more courteous towards the runner if they wish to be present in the room where the run is going on during the main event. I feel bad for the runners when I see someone in the audience being constantly preoccupied with something else when the run is going on. During a run, the runner is there to showcase his ability in speed running a game, he or she is the "performer" and so it's disrespectful when the audience are constantly not paying attention and doing something else instead. Imagine if you were the performer and your audience are looking at their phone all the time instead of watching you performing, it's not nice isn't it.

I think this looks especially bad when it happens at the front row seats, because the seats here are much more visible than the other audience seats. If an attendee prefers to be preoccupied with something else through the run, then the courteous thing to do would be to at the least let someone else have the front row seat. It serves no purpose to take the front row seat only to be preoccupied with something else and not watch the run.

I'm sure most runners don't mind, and this is not about right or wrong. But it doesn't mean we should not show some courtesy towards the runner. I understand that there are screens elsewhere where attendees can watch what's going on as well, so perhaps this is a better place to watch a run for someone who may have certain responsibilities or any other reasons to be doing something else during a run.

Utilizing both channels for 4-players run.

Now this is probably stupid suggestion but maybe someone can improve on it. My suggestion is to stream a 4 player co-op or competition across both channels, where you can have 2 game screens per channel? I think this will allow the game screen to be large enough for most viewers to really see and understand what's going on in game.

I know that 2 streams may be a problem for viewers on mobile devices, so this is the part where it’s a silly suggestions and need improvements, lol. Though I don’t think we can see much anyway on a mobile device with 4 game screens cramped into one video.

Include more demonstration of unusual runs or game related stuff

I really love the blindfolded game run, the gaming with bongo during bonus stream, and blind run where a person tries to speed run a game he/she have never played before. I also saw some backstage video where people are playing video games with fruits as the controller. (A funny comment I saw on chat was someone jokingly suggesting a challenge: Dark Souls with Fruit Controller - Can you complete the game before the fruits decompose.)
It’s interesting stuff we don’t see all the time and I think they make great addition to the event.

A standard guideline for the moderators

Let me just preface this by saying I am not complaining against any moderators here, and I am sure they have all done their best to walk the fine line between keeping the chat civil to a certain extent, while not being over moderated. But I think there may be somewhat different “threshold” in what’s allowed and what isn’t by different moderators, and perhaps some users were caught out by it. I’ve seen some comments complaining about why they were allowed to say this and that previously but not now, etc.

On moderation subject, it was discussed on Yellow stream final warp up, where they said they do not want to over moderate the chat, and I just want to say that I completely support ESA stance here. It’s Twich’s chat, it’s always “toxic” to a certain extend when there are many viewers. And as someone said, we should be focusing on the run more than the chat anyway.

That’s all I can think of for now, I’ll add more if something crosses my mind later on. I appreciate you guys reading our feedbacks here, and I hope I have been able to contribute a little something with my feedback.

Thank you all very much for the great event. It was an entertaining week.

This is my feedback as a viewer on Twitch.tv. I've watched as many run as I could every day of the events.

Overall I've enjoyed watching the events, and I think it's very well presented for most parts. I like the layouts, although I think it can be improved when it comes to 4 player co-op or competition. I feel that the game screen is too small and may not be ideal for anyone watching on say, a laptop or a tablet, where the screen area is smaller. It wasn't too bad when I view them full screen on a 24-inch monitor, but it certainly feels too small on a laptop screen.

I like the idea of having 2 channels, although at times it does feels like I'm missing out on what's going on at the other channel. I guess on the plus side, having 2 channels actually allows more runs to be conducted and so I will certainly not argue against it. More chances for the runners to do their run is always a welcome thing.

One positive thing that I would like highlight is the discussion segment on Yellow stream. The TAS segment has been very informative about TAS, and it changed my view on what TAS is really about, for the better. The Sonic stuff and Glitch segment was also great. As a new comer to speed running, these discussions have been invaluable to me. I hope we will see the same in future ESA events. Perhaps, may I suggest that the discussion segment starts off with a talk on what speed running is about. I think this can be very useful to the many viewers who are not speed runners, as well as clearing up any misconceptions people may have on speed running.

I like the laid back atmosphere during the runs, and one of my favorite runs was GTA Vice City. All the audience in the room was really into the game, and they occasionally goof around with singing along and reading out the in-game dialog. It's hard to explain in words, but I think you guys can get what I mean if you've watch that run. I just love the crowd. Anyway I'm just pointing this out as a good example of how the viewing crowd could add to the overall atmosphere. I understand that this is something that has to happen naturally and there's no way to "make it happen".

Anyway, here are some suggestions I have, which I hope can be helpful in some ways

[b]Encourage future attendees to be courteous during a run.[/b]

I'm not trying to single out anyone in particular here, it’s just something I observed and I believe it can be improved on in the future. In future events, I think the organizers could perhaps remind all attendees to be more courteous towards the runner if they wish to be present in the room where the run is going on during the main event. I feel bad for the runners when I see someone in the audience being constantly preoccupied with something else when the run is going on. During a run, the runner is there to showcase his ability in speed running a game, he or she is the "performer" and so it's disrespectful when the audience are constantly not paying attention and doing something else instead. Imagine if you were the performer and your audience are looking at their phone all the time instead of watching you performing, it's not nice isn't it.

I think this looks especially bad when it happens at the front row seats, because the seats here are much more visible than the other audience seats. If an attendee prefers to be preoccupied with something else through the run, then the courteous thing to do would be to at the least let someone else have the front row seat. It serves no purpose to take the front row seat only to be preoccupied with something else and not watch the run.

I'm sure most runners don't mind, and this is not about right or wrong. But it doesn't mean we should not show some courtesy towards the runner. I understand that there are screens elsewhere where attendees can watch what's going on as well, so perhaps this is a better place to watch a run for someone who may have certain responsibilities or any other reasons to be doing something else during a run.

[b]Utilizing both channels for 4-players run.[/b]

Now this is probably stupid suggestion but maybe someone can improve on it. My suggestion is to stream a 4 player co-op or competition across both channels, where you can have 2 game screens per channel? I think this will allow the game screen to be large enough for most viewers to really see and understand what's going on in game.

I know that 2 streams may be a problem for viewers on mobile devices, so this is the part where it’s a silly suggestions and need improvements, lol. Though I don’t think we can see much anyway on a mobile device with 4 game screens cramped into one video.

[b]Include more demonstration of unusual runs or game related stuff[/b]

I really love the blindfolded game run, the gaming with bongo during bonus stream, and blind run where a person tries to speed run a game he/she have never played before. I also saw some backstage video where people are playing video games with fruits as the controller. (A funny comment I saw on chat was someone jokingly suggesting a challenge: Dark Souls with Fruit Controller - Can you complete the game before the fruits decompose.)
It’s interesting stuff we don’t see all the time and I think they make great addition to the event.

[b]A standard guideline for the moderators[/b]

Let me just preface this by saying I am not complaining against any moderators here, and I am sure they have all done their best to walk the fine line between keeping the chat civil to a certain extent, while not being over moderated. But I think there may be somewhat different “threshold” in what’s allowed and what isn’t by different moderators, and perhaps some users were caught out by it. I’ve seen some comments complaining about why they were allowed to say this and that previously but not now, etc.

On moderation subject, it was discussed on Yellow stream final warp up, where they said they do not want to over moderate the chat, and I just want to say that I completely support ESA stance here. It’s Twich’s chat, it’s always “toxic” to a certain extend when there are many viewers. And as someone said, we should be focusing on the run more than the chat anyway.

That’s all I can think of for now, I’ll add more if something crosses my mind later on. I appreciate you guys reading our feedbacks here, and I hope I have been able to contribute a little something with my feedback.

Thank you all very much for the great event. It was an entertaining week.

IdanZel

2014-08-05 07:55:50 am

My feedback as a viewer:

- Two streams at once: At first, I was worried about how that will go along, and thought many things will go wrong, though in the end there were only a few technical problems between the streams, and moreover, it kept me much more interested and entertained, more than I would have been if there was only one stream, as usual to other marathons. I highly encourage keeping this idea and to use it again in future marathons.

- Layouts: The layouts for the marathon were visibly clean, organized and allowed a good viewing for both the room's camera and the game. Race layouts were good as well, except, of course, for the 4-players races/runs layout, which for me has been very confusing at the start. Eventually I got used to it, and to color coding which marked the runners, yet I think it would be better to enlarge the games' screens on the layout, and to keep the color coding, but to use more contrasting and visible colors.

- Schedule organization: I am aware that one of the ideas of this marathon were to part games from the same series from each other in order to allow a more varied viewing experience, and though it did work well for most, and should be kept that way, I still think some games needed to be kept in the same block, such as the GTA games and the HL games, as it felt for me that parting those from each other did not make sense. Also, I appreciate the attempt of this marathon to keep up with the original schedule even with unexpected setup time, but I still think adding another timing for the schedule to allow seeing currently predicted starting time along with original starting times (e.g. Original starting time: 11:00, Predicted starting time: 11:35) where the predicted starting time is variable. I also think it is necessary to enlarge estimates to contain setup times, if there is a need to, and to add a "goal time" for the run itself instead.

- Chat and moderation: In most marathons, the organizers would leave chat to be moderated by bots and occasionally other moderators, as they don't care for it much. In this marathon though, chat has actually been letting legitimate chatting between viewers. Not over-moderating it was a good idea, though sometimes it felt under-moderated leaving spammers and ad-bots unbanned. I think it is better if there will be a higher attention to chat from the moderators' part.

These are my opinions on the event. Most of these were probably noted down already, but I think they shouldn't be ignored in any case.

Overall, this event looked successful, and I hope I could actually attend one of the future marathons, perhaps next year.

My feedback as a viewer:

- [b]Two streams at once:[/b] At first, I was worried about how that will go along, and thought many things will go wrong, though in the end there were only a few technical problems between the streams, and moreover, it kept me much more interested and entertained, more than I would have been if there was only one stream, as usual to other marathons. I highly encourage keeping this idea and to use it again in future marathons.

- [b]Layouts:[/b] The layouts for the marathon were visibly clean, organized and allowed a good viewing for both the room's camera and the game. Race layouts were good as well, except, of course, for the 4-players races/runs layout, which for me has been very confusing at the start. Eventually I got used to it, and to color coding which marked the runners, yet I think it would be better to enlarge the games' screens on the layout, and to keep the color coding, but to use more contrasting and visible colors.

- [b]Schedule organization:[/b]  I am aware that one of the ideas of this marathon were to part games from the same series from each other in order to allow a more varied viewing experience, and though it did work well for most, and should be kept that way, I still think some games needed to be kept in the same block, such as the GTA games and the HL games, as it felt for me that parting those from each other did not make sense. Also, I appreciate the attempt of this marathon to keep up with the original schedule even with unexpected setup time, but I still think adding another timing for the schedule to allow seeing currently predicted starting time along with original starting times (e.g. Original starting time: 11:00, Predicted starting time: 11:35) where the predicted starting time is variable. I also think it is necessary to enlarge estimates to contain setup times, if there is a need to, and to add a "goal time" for the run itself instead.

- [b]Chat and moderation:[/b] In most marathons, the organizers would leave chat to be moderated by bots and occasionally other moderators, as they don't care for it much. In this marathon though, chat has actually been letting legitimate chatting between viewers. Not over-moderating it was a good idea, though sometimes it felt under-moderated leaving spammers and ad-bots unbanned. I think it is better if there will be a higher attention to chat from the moderators' part.

These are my opinions on the event. Most of these were probably noted down already, but I think they shouldn't be ignored in any case.

Overall, this event looked successful, and I hope I could actually attend one of the future marathons, perhaps next year.

TheMG2

2014-08-05 08:27:01 am

If at all possible, could the website be up sooner next time? I had to go digging for the schedule every time somebody asked for it.

btrim

2014-08-05 08:32:25 am

Viewer feedback.

The layouts were good. I'm not sure I noticed any problem with the background being too subtle, but I like subtlety (I'd like black backgrounds about the same).

The 3+4 person race layouts were mostly fine for me. I found it interesting to read two different reactions of seeing it or not seeing it. I think it would be solved in 4-person races by just putting the runner's name above their twitch, instead of next to it. That means instead of 4 rows you have 4 corners for names, same as the gameplay.

Sometimes the transitions felt clunky. I do think the intro videos were really cool, and work especially well when played immediately before the countdown to gameplay.

The lack of audio during setup felt very strange.

It looked like one capture source had some kind of brightness / contrast / gamma problem (See: Ninja Gaiden SMS)

Schedule:

I'll be a whiny American and say if I wanted to watch certain types of runs live (most 8- and 16-bit blocks) I had to do weird things to my sleep schedule, but I didn't expect any concessions there, so no real complaints.

Open blocks seemed to end up being more of games that were already in the schedule, which was a bit disappointing.

Two streams: The greater potential for the type of games I care about to be run during a time I can watch is fantastic.

Viewer feedback.

The layouts were good.  I'm not sure I noticed any problem with the background being too subtle, but I like subtlety (I'd like black backgrounds about the same).

The 3+4 person race layouts were mostly fine for me.  I found it interesting to read two different reactions of seeing it or not seeing it.   I think it would be solved in 4-person races by just putting the runner's name above their twitch, instead of next to it.  That means instead of 4 rows you have 4 corners for names, same as the gameplay.

Sometimes the transitions felt clunky.  I do think the intro videos were really cool, and work especially well when played immediately before the countdown to gameplay.

The lack of audio during setup felt very strange.

It looked like one capture source had some kind of brightness / contrast / gamma problem (See: Ninja Gaiden SMS)

Schedule:

I'll be a whiny American and say if I wanted to watch certain types of runs live (most 8- and 16-bit blocks)  I had to do weird things to my sleep schedule, but I didn't expect any concessions there, so no real complaints.

Open blocks seemed to end up being more of games that were already in the schedule, which was a bit disappointing.

Two streams: The greater potential for the type of games I care about to be run during a time I can watch is fantastic.

AngryManjuu

2014-08-05 09:20:23 am

Signed up to give my feedback as a viewer:

Layout, video, sound:
Nothing major to complain about. I noticed the color coding in coops and races but admit that it could be easily overlooked. Maybe use clearer colors next time instead of a faint outer glow. Other than that, great stream quality!

Schedule:
A frequently updated schedule would be cool next time. I don't know how hard that is to implement though. And yeah, merci kill runs that go way beyond the estimate. Although I have to admit that the Dark Souls run was one of my personal highlights Wink

Charity:
I don't think that you have to choose between a 100% charity event or a 0% charity event. I am quite sure that neither the atmosphere/hype nor the viewer count would increase if ESA2014 didn't have donations. You just....ya know....wouldn't have had any money going to DWB. Wouldn't that be sad?

Audience:
As a viewer, I am in no way bothered by people walking through the door or sitting there looking/typing on their phones. This issue should be discussed with the runners and only the runners in my opinion. They are the ones that have a legit reason for accepting or rejecting that situation. Again, that's why point of view. In case of the Eternal Darkness run, I personally liked the fact that chat questions were relayed to the runner :).

Chat:
To be completely honest, I disliked the way a certain moderator behaved. Mostly in the blue stream chat. Overmoderation and kind of an arrogant attitude. Maybe lay down some general outlines for mods next time?

Two streams:
I was really skeptical at first but in retrospective, found it superb! I basically left both streams running in a pop out window and muted the one I was not currently watching. Yes, lack of promotion for yellow stream although I enjoyed its chat way more haha. The non-usual stuff also added a positive flare to it (like TAS and glitch session). I really see no reason not to continue that from now on except for if the workload is really too much for the organization/techs.

Swearing:
..............really?.............No seriously, people should chill about that. I even watched the Hard Reset run and was totally fine with the quality of swearing. The quantity was high but come on, I could understand his frustration over the PC performance Wink

Viewer count:
This might be a really dumb question, but is it really that important? You entertained and brought much joy to the roughly 10k people that watched the stream and that is very respectable! But yeah, hopefully you will manage to have more people watching by increasing promotion next year.

Signed up to give my feedback as a viewer:

Layout, video, sound: 
Nothing major to complain about. I noticed the color coding in coops and races but admit that it could be easily overlooked. Maybe use clearer colors next time instead of a faint outer glow. Other than that, great stream quality!

Schedule:
A frequently updated schedule would be cool next time. I don't know how hard that is to implement though. And yeah, merci kill runs that go way beyond the estimate. Although I have to admit that the Dark Souls run was one of my personal highlights ;)

Charity:
I don't think that you have to choose between a 100% charity event or a 0% charity event. I am quite sure that neither the atmosphere/hype nor the viewer count would increase if ESA2014 didn't have donations. You just....ya know....wouldn't have had any money going to DWB. Wouldn't that be sad?

Audience:
As a viewer, I am in no way bothered by people walking through the door or sitting there looking/typing on their phones. This issue should be discussed with the runners and only the runners in my opinion. They are the ones that have a legit reason for accepting or rejecting that situation. Again, that's why point of view. In case of the Eternal Darkness run, I personally liked the fact that chat questions were relayed to the runner :).

Chat:
To be completely honest, I disliked the way a certain moderator behaved. Mostly in the blue stream chat. Overmoderation and kind of an arrogant attitude. Maybe lay down some general outlines for mods next time?

Two streams:
I was really skeptical at first but in retrospective, found it superb! I basically left both streams running in a pop out window and muted the one I was not currently watching. Yes, lack of promotion for yellow stream although I enjoyed its chat way more haha. The non-usual stuff also added a positive flare to it (like TAS and glitch session). I really see no reason not to continue that from now on except for if the workload is really too much for the organization/techs.

Swearing:
..............really?.............No seriously, people should chill about that. I even watched the Hard Reset run and was totally fine with the quality of swearing. The quantity was high but come on, I could understand his frustration over the PC performance ;)

Viewer count:
This might be a really dumb question, but is it really that important? You entertained and brought much joy to the roughly 10k people that watched the stream and that is very respectable! But yeah, hopefully you will manage to have more people watching by increasing promotion next year.

Svenne

2014-08-05 11:53:11 am

Smörgåsbord

Dual-stream / Schedules for both streams:

I was a fan of the dual-stream in the beginning when we had decided it would be the best speedrunning stream possible on the first stream and then have alternative stuff like TAS'ing, long rpg's on the second one etc. So the first draft for the "blue" stream was truly amazing.

At some point closer to the marathon that all changed without anyone on the schedule group agreeing upon the change. It was more forced upon from higher ups. So after that ordeal we had to "even" out the both streams because that became the first priority. Pretty much one of the reasons GTA SA wasin't a 4 player race in the end etc. I also quit the schedule team directly after DreamHack because I could not take more of that crap in my life and I have no faith at all in that current state of that part of the ESA crew.

It’s not like we had a hard time reaching out to people, after the fourth game at the marathon we were on 11k viewer pace, we just had a shitty schedule that made people leave and only show up for primetime the consecutive two days then to have people drop forever. Leaving both stream with lesser views then they deserved.

If this was a success event in terms of viewers or donations, I don't know. I for one still think both streams would have gotten alot more viewers if we would have followed through with the original schedule idea.

You know for a guy who is used of getting 20 viewers I am happy with whatever I can get above that number but this marathon didin't hit the numbers me and alot of others were expecting, actually not even close so alot of people are upset, many of them who have been with us from the very beginning. But the people I met were all awesome at ESA2014 and I would not trade that comradery for anything and I still think we could have a dual-stream that is successfull, but then we need to learn from these mistakes that was made this year.

Dual-stream / Schedules for both streams:

I was a fan of the dual-stream in the beginning when we had decided it would be the best speedrunning stream possible on the first stream and then have alternative stuff like TAS'ing, long rpg's on the second one etc. So the first draft for the "blue" stream was truly amazing.

At some point closer to the marathon that all changed without anyone on the schedule group agreeing upon the change. It was more forced upon from higher ups. So after that ordeal we had to "even" out the both streams because that became the first priority. Pretty much one of the reasons GTA SA wasin't a 4 player race in the end etc. I also quit the schedule team directly after DreamHack because I could not take more of that crap in my life and I have no faith at all in that current state of that part of the ESA crew.

It’s not like we had a hard time reaching out to people, after the fourth game at the marathon we were on 11k viewer pace, we just had a shitty schedule that made people leave and only show up for primetime the consecutive two days then to have people drop forever. Leaving both stream with lesser views then they deserved.

If this was a success event in terms of viewers or donations, I don't know. I for one still think both streams would have gotten alot more viewers if we would have followed through with the original schedule idea.

You know for a guy who is used of getting 20 viewers I am happy with whatever I can get above that number but this marathon didin't hit the numbers me and alot of others were expecting, actually not even close so alot of people are upset, many of them who have been with us from the very beginning. But the people I met were all awesome at ESA2014 and I would not trade that comradery for anything and I still think we could have a dual-stream that is successfull, but then we need to learn from these mistakes that was made this year.

Efreeti

2014-08-05 11:57:34 am

Clear as a crisp spring morning!

Quote from AngryManjuu:

Chat:
To be completely honest, I disliked the way a certain moderator behaved. Mostly in the blue stream chat. Overmoderation and kind of an arrogant attitude. Maybe lay down some general outlines for mods next time?

I've heard this exact thing a lot, and I still haven't heard how these people think I should have behaved. I would like to know how being strict equals being arrogant.

PJ

2014-08-05 12:03:31 pm

Is PJ

First off, it sounds like everybody at ESA had a great time and that's the most important thing. I'm glad the event was that successful in the community-building/hangout aspect! I, too, am of the opinion that the event should focus on this in the future and drop the charity ties. It has been very successful as a European get-together, and not quite so much as a fundraiser, so I'd like to see it continue to grow in that direction.

I just want to bring up a few things that bothered me about the event. I hope I don't sound too negative because that's not my intention.

Audio:
I'm seeing a lot of praise for the audio levels/balance, setup, whatever. I'm just not really where these comments are coming from. Every run that I watched had a nearly inaudible commentator and a completely overwhelming host. Bionic Commando: Rearmed had like 40 seconds of loud static coming from Kennyman's mic, which was eventually taken care of. Most of the games I watched were totally inaudible. The levels were just all over the place, but I didn't watch a run where it seemed appropriate. Even in some of the intermission interviews the levels were way off, and those should be the easiest to manage. The one in the middle of the Mega Man block with flicky and Primal was impossible to listen to because flicky's mic was cranked up so loud it was overpeaking on every syllable. I wanted to listen to the interview but I had to mute it because it was literally hurting.

Second stream:
There are a lot of people voicing their support for this in this thread, but I haven't been seeing any justifications in those posts. What did people enjoy about this? I am genuinely curious. Here is my experience with the second stream: every time I tuned in for a game, there were no more than 2 people in the room, and usually the non-runner was on his/her phone not watching the run. There was absolutely no energy in the room at any point when I tuned in except for the Wand of Gamelon run (go Tompa!). I understand that some people enjoy a "cozy" atmosphere, but there's a difference between cozy and lonely. :/ At one point during the Mega Man block, someone came on the blue stream to announce that Melee finals were going on in the yellow stream and that people should go watch it. Joka replied with something along the lines of "No, you should stay here because Mega Man is awesome". That pretty much summarizes the dual-stream situation for me. There was really no reason for me to ever go there; even if there was a game I wanted to watch, the lack of energy totally killed my enthusiasm for watching it. Plus hey, if nobody on site even wants to go there, why should I?

Now I understand this probably isn't how it was intended to come across, and I'm sure most of the attendees didn't feel this way (including Joka), but that is the impression that I got while watching.

Energy/hype:
This was my main problem. With the exception of the classic Mega Man block (great job, guys!), there was a pretty distinct lack of excitement in the room for most of the runs I watched. I definitely understand that commentating in a 2nd language while running a high-execution game is very difficult, and I give you all props for doing that! It is definitely something I'll never be able to do. For that reason, I also don't expect constant fluid commentary or anything like that. What I was expecting, though, was for the crowd to show some interest in the run. Cheering, clapping, smiling, *anything*. F-Zero X was one of the first games of the marathon, so I was expecting the room to be exploding just from the sheer excitement of ESA kick-off and WMJ. Instead, the room was mostly silent and disinterested while WMJ absolutely destroyed FZX. The quality of the runs at ESA was really high, but the crowd just didn't seem to be enjoying it. Again, I am sure this isn't how everybody actually felt, but that is the impression it gave off.

There was one run, I think it was one of the many GTA runs, where the runners were like in the corners of the camera and the couch was centered. Everybody on the couch was turned around talking to people sitting in the first row of chairs. If nobody in the room can be bothered to watch the run (and I'm assuming they're the ones on-site who are most interested to watch it), then why should I?

Final thoughts:
Again, sorry for sounding so negative. I did really like what you did with the layouts, and with some minor tweaks I think it'll work really well. I also applaud you all for making the effort to try a second stream, for better or worse, and for doing all of this in the midst of what I understand to be a pretty insane heat wave. And again, for hosting/commentating in a second language (for most of you) so we can enjoy the event. I'm just listing these improvements in hopes that ESA can grow to serve the community in an even better capacity next time.

First off, it sounds like everybody at ESA had a great time and that's the most important thing.  I'm glad the event was that successful in the community-building/hangout aspect!  I, too, am of the opinion that the event should focus on this in the future and drop the charity ties.  It has been very successful as a European get-together, and not quite so much as a fundraiser, so I'd like to see it continue to grow in that direction.

I just want to bring up a few things that bothered me about the event.  I hope I don't sound too negative because that's not my intention.

[b]Audio[/b]:
I'm seeing a lot of praise for the audio levels/balance, setup, whatever.  I'm just not really where these comments are coming from.  Every run that I watched had a nearly inaudible commentator and a completely overwhelming host.  Bionic Commando: Rearmed had like 40 seconds of loud static coming from Kennyman's mic, which was eventually taken care of.  Most of the games I watched were totally inaudible.  The levels were just all over the place, but I didn't watch a run where it seemed appropriate.  Even in some of the intermission interviews the levels were way off, and those should be the easiest to manage.  The one in the middle of the Mega Man block with flicky and Primal was impossible to listen to because flicky's mic was cranked up so loud it was overpeaking on every syllable.  I wanted to listen to the interview but I had to mute it because it was literally hurting.

[b]Second stream[/b]:
There are a lot of people voicing their support for this in this thread, but I haven't been seeing any justifications in those posts.  What did people enjoy about this?  I am genuinely curious.  Here is my experience with the second stream: every time I tuned in for a game, there were no more than 2 people in the room, and usually the non-runner was on his/her phone not watching the run.  There was absolutely no energy in the room at any point when I tuned in except for the Wand of Gamelon run (go Tompa!).  I understand that some people enjoy a "cozy" atmosphere, but there's a difference between cozy and lonely.  :/  At one point during the Mega Man block, someone came on the blue stream to announce that Melee finals were going on in the yellow stream and that people should go watch it.  Joka replied with something along the lines of "No, you should stay here because Mega Man is awesome".  That pretty much summarizes the dual-stream situation for me.  There was really no reason for me to ever go there; even if there was a game I wanted to watch, the lack of energy totally killed my enthusiasm for watching it.  Plus hey, if nobody on site even wants to go there, why should I?

Now I understand this probably isn't how it was intended to come across, and I'm sure most of the attendees didn't feel this way (including Joka), but that is the impression that I got while watching.

[b]Energy/hype[/b]:
This was my main problem.  With the exception of the classic Mega Man block (great job, guys!), there was a pretty distinct lack of excitement in the room for most of the runs I watched.  I definitely understand that commentating in a 2nd language while running a high-execution game is very difficult, and I give you all props for doing that!  It is definitely something I'll never be able to do.  For that reason, I also don't expect constant fluid commentary or anything like that.  What I [b]was[/b] expecting, though, was for the crowd to show some interest in the run.  Cheering, clapping, smiling, *anything*.  F-Zero X was one of the first games of the marathon, so I was expecting the room to be exploding just from the sheer excitement of ESA kick-off and WMJ.  Instead, the room was mostly silent and disinterested while WMJ absolutely destroyed FZX.  The quality of the runs at ESA was really high, but the crowd just didn't seem to be enjoying it.  Again, I am sure this isn't how everybody actually felt, but that is the impression it gave off.

There was one run, I think it was one of the many GTA runs, where the runners were like in the corners of the camera and the couch was centered.  Everybody on the couch was turned around talking to people sitting in the first row of chairs.  If nobody in the room can be bothered to watch the run (and I'm assuming they're the ones on-site who are most interested to watch it), then why should I?

[b]Final thoughts[/b]:
Again, sorry for sounding so negative.  I did really like what you did with the layouts, and with some minor tweaks I think it'll work really well.  I also applaud you all for making the effort to try a second stream, for better or worse, and for doing all of this in the midst of what I understand to be a pretty insane heat wave.  And again, for hosting/commentating in a second language (for most of you) so we can enjoy the event.  I'm just listing these improvements in hopes that ESA can grow to serve the community in an even better capacity next time.

KVD

Edit history:

KVD: 2014-08-05 04:08:46 pm

KVD: 2014-08-05 12:39:03 pm

KVD: 2014-08-05 12:38:41 pm

KVD: 2014-08-05 12:37:55 pm

2014-08-05 12:37:27 pm

Quote from PJ:

I, too, am of the opinion that the event should focus on this in the future and drop the charity ties.

I've read this a few times now and am curious what the reasoning is behind people wanting ESA to drop charity ties? If it doesn't hurt, why drop? Actually, rather than hurting, 40k is definitely not a donation DWB will get every day, so contrarily it's more of a win-win situation that doesn't need drastic changing.

I know compared to the million+ of AGDQ, ESA is a small fund raiser, but by the same token people going from door to door raise fewer donation totals than Bill Gates can deposit in a single generous gesture. Does that mean those people should stop their efforts? Of course not, especially as it's different charity targets as well.
It doesn't have to be 100% or 0% focus; like most things in life, shades of grey work best.

AngryManjuu

Edit history:

AngryManjuu: 2014-08-05 12:45:35 pm

AngryManjuu: 2014-08-05 12:45:08 pm

2014-08-05 12:44:27 pm

Quote from PJ:

Second stream:
There are a lot of people voicing their support for this in this thread, but I haven't been seeing any justifications in those posts. What did people enjoy about this? I am genuinely curious.

Since you are asking, I'll give two (big) reasons why I do:

1. Alternative sessions outside of speedrunning like TASing or glitching. I have always wondered how it is and how it's usually done so that gave me some good insight. Recaps were also very interesting to watch.

2. Simply the option to choose. Sometimes I was more interested in the games in blue stream, sometimes in yellow stream. Lack of people or energy was never a reason for me not to watch a game I like.

Vulajin

2014-08-05 01:40:26 pm

Quote from Efreeti:

I've heard this exact thing a lot, and I still haven't heard how these people think I should have behaved. I would like to know how being strict equals being arrogant.

A few suggestions:
- Don't time out raiders. A raid lasting more than 5 minutes is not deserving of timing people out. If one specific individual is flooding the chat and not getting globaled, then you can consider TO-ing them, but there had better be ample warning. Raiders are doing you a favor, no matter how you slice it.
- Don't tell people they are not welcome. You said something like "the kind of people doing this aren't likely to donate" (heavily paraphrased), right? Well, that heavily implies that you don't ascribe any value to those people, because they're not donating. You can't guilt people into donating.
- Don't expect actual conversation to happen. As your event grows, you're going to have less actual possibility of discussion in the chat. It already tends toward the "unmanageable" side at ~10k viewers. When you reach 20k+, banning people just because they're spamming faces is going to be pointless.

One thing I strongly agreed with from your previous post is that global moderation guidelines are absolutely essential. If you were not given any guidelines on how to moderate the event chat, that's a significant failing on the part of whoever organized moderation for ESA. It's very, very important to make sure your staff are on the same page, even if they're "just" chat moderators.

[quote="Efreeti"]I've heard this exact thing a lot, and I still haven't heard how these people think I should have behaved. I would like to know how being strict equals being arrogant.[/quote]

A few suggestions:
- Don't time out raiders. A raid lasting more than 5 minutes is not deserving of timing people out. If one specific individual is flooding the chat and not getting globaled, then you can consider TO-ing them, but there had better be ample warning. Raiders are doing you a favor, no matter how you slice it.
- Don't tell people they are not welcome. You said something like "the kind of people doing this aren't likely to donate" (heavily paraphrased), right? Well, that heavily implies that you don't ascribe any value to those people, because they're not donating. You can't guilt people into donating.
- Don't expect actual conversation to happen. As your event grows, you're going to have less actual possibility of discussion in the chat. It already tends toward the "unmanageable" side at ~10k viewers. When you reach 20k+, banning people just because they're spamming faces is going to be pointless.

One thing I strongly agreed with from your previous post is that global moderation guidelines are [i]absolutely essential[/i]. If you were not given any guidelines on how to moderate the event chat, that's a significant failing on the part of whoever organized moderation for ESA. It's very, very important to make sure your staff are on the same page, even if they're "just" chat moderators.

Billnye_Fan

2014-08-05 01:49:43 pm

ESA went from $20k to almost $40k in donation total. That is a huge success.

The duo streams really raised the bar. I HIGHLY suggest GDQs do this. The only downside is the amount of work is increased. However, the money GDQs will receive from ad revenue alone will be worth it. Not to mention more games included leads to more people coming which means more you can get for attendance fees (or less people have to pay overall if you plan to do it the ESA way). Just make sure that people know to bring back up games incase you need to fill slots on the fly. There are a lot of people who can easily fill slots if they are prepared.

As for dropping the charity. DO NOT DO THIS. You will regret it. Accepting donations for a good cause allows for fun donation incentives and bidding wars. Marathons can work without taking donations, but you miss out on the opportunity for the viewers to interact with what is going on.

Finally, prizes. Prizes are a huge part of why people donate. Try to get as many decent prizes as you can. Prizes can single handedly bring in thousands of donations if advertised properly. Also plugging prizes is a better alternative to begging for donations since I know it is morally rough for people to beg for donations during a marathon.

ESA went from $20k to almost $40k in donation total. That is a huge success.

The duo streams really raised the bar. I HIGHLY suggest GDQs do this. The only downside is the amount of work is increased. However, the money GDQs will receive from ad revenue alone will be worth it. Not to mention more games included leads to more people coming which means more you can get for attendance fees (or less people have to pay overall if you plan to do it the ESA way). Just make sure that people know to bring back up games incase you need to fill slots on the fly. There are a lot of people who can easily fill slots if they are prepared.

As for dropping the charity. DO NOT DO THIS. You will regret it. Accepting donations for a good cause allows for fun donation incentives and bidding wars. Marathons can work without taking donations, but you miss out on the opportunity for the viewers to interact with what is going on.

Finally, prizes. Prizes are a huge part of why people donate. Try to get as many decent prizes as you can. Prizes can single handedly bring in thousands of donations if advertised properly. Also plugging prizes is a better alternative to begging for donations since I know it is morally rough for people to beg for donations during a marathon.

Cool Matty

Edit history:

Cool Matty: 2014-08-05 02:10:37 pm

Cool Matty: 2014-08-05 02:09:25 pm

Cool Matty: 2014-08-05 02:07:05 pm

Cool Matty: 2014-08-05 02:06:53 pm

2014-08-05 02:05:52 pm

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

Quote from Reed:

Excuse me?

Whether the donation total was "enough" is completely up to the organizers and their goals, if you drop the donations altogether then charity gets 0 and anything is better than 0. This just comes off really presumptuous.

People seem to be trying to do 1:1 comparison to an SDA marathon and it's really shitty imo.

Woh woh, slow down. You're putting words in my mouth and being really standoff-ish about this. This has nothing to do with SDA, and I was very careful NOT to make that comparison.

1. Just because you make some money for a charity doesn't mean you have to keep doing it. What if ESA only made $15000? $5000? Are those acceptable points to stop? It's my personal opinion, especially when you factor in that Notch's donation made up over 25% of ESA's donation total, that ESA did not grow in donations like it should have. The investment made into the event and the work put into it by the tech crew, I feel, has not been offset here.

2. If ESA stops trying to work with charities, they can focus on having a much better community event. Instead of donation management, you have more tech workers. There's no pressure to be professional/mature (see also: swearing). You won't have people constantly asking "what charity? what donation? there was prizes?". ESA needs to consider the charity themselves, and the way they represent them. When you take donations for a charity, these restrictions are important.

3. $36000 is definitely pretty good (although over 25% of that was just from Notch, keep in mind), but look at the overall scale of ESA in comparison. If ESA focused on the charity, they would bring in a hell of a lot more. The "some is better than none" argument I feel is a really thin one, that can be used to excuse any result. Now I know very well that's not something ESA wants to do, which is why I think they should drop the charity aspect. I don't have any problem with that personally and I think ESA would be way more entertaining, hype, and even unique. There's not a lot of speedrunning events (none of this size that I can think of) that focus solely on speedrunners, so if that's the real goal here, then do it!

Frankly, I think the idea of ESA as a purely community event is actually exciting and people shouldn't passively dismiss the idea because of the money raised.

Quote from KVD:

I've read this a few times now and am curious what the reasoning is behind people wanting ESA to drop charity ties? If it doesn't hurt, why drop? Actually, rather than hurting, 40k is definitely not a donation DOB will get every day, so contrarily it's more of a win-win situation that doesn't need drastic changing.

Because some of the things ESA seems to want to do conflict with a group that is representing a charity, and lowers the overall success as both a charity event AND as a community event.

Edit: And that's just my opinion. I'm sure ESA will grow next year regardless of what they pick, and I don't think ESA overall was a failure by any means. Just explore all of your options before deciding.

[quote="Reed"]
Excuse me?

Whether the donation total was "enough" is completely up to the organizers and their goals, if you drop the donations altogether then charity gets 0 and anything is better than 0. This just comes off really presumptuous.

People seem to be trying to do 1:1 comparison to an SDA marathon and it's really shitty imo.[/quote]

Woh woh, slow down. You're putting words in my mouth and being really standoff-ish about this. This has nothing to do with SDA, and I was very careful NOT to make that comparison.

1. Just because you make some money for a charity doesn't mean you have to keep doing it. What if ESA only made $15000? $5000? Are those acceptable points to stop? It's my personal opinion, especially when you factor in that Notch's donation made up over 25% of ESA's donation total, that ESA did not grow in donations like it should have. The investment made into the event and the work put into it by the tech crew, I feel, has not been offset here.

2. If ESA stops trying to work with charities, they can focus on having a much better community event. Instead of donation management, you have more tech workers. There's no pressure to be professional/mature (see also: swearing). You won't have people constantly asking "what charity? what donation? there was prizes?". ESA needs to consider the charity themselves, and the way they represent them. When you take donations for a charity, these restrictions are important.

3. $36000 is definitely pretty good (although [b]over 25% of that was just from Notch[/b], keep in mind), but look at the overall scale of ESA in comparison. If ESA focused on the charity, they would bring in a hell of a lot more. The "some is better than none" argument I feel is a really thin one, that can be used to excuse any result. Now I know very well that's not something ESA wants to do, which is why I think they should drop the charity aspect. I don't have any problem with that personally and I think ESA would be way more entertaining, hype, and even unique. There's not a lot of speedrunning events (none of this size that I can think of) that focus solely on speedrunners, so if that's the real goal here, then do it!

Frankly, I think the idea of ESA as a purely community event is actually exciting and people shouldn't passively dismiss the idea because of the money raised.

[quote="KVD"]
I've read this a few times now and am curious what the reasoning is behind people wanting ESA to drop charity ties? If it doesn't hurt, why drop? Actually, rather than hurting, 40k is definitely not a donation DOB will get every day, so contrarily it's more of a win-win situation that doesn't need drastic changing.
[/quote]

Because some of the things ESA seems to want to do conflict with a group that is representing a charity, and lowers the overall success as both a charity event AND as a community event.

Edit: And that's just my opinion. I'm sure ESA will grow next year regardless of what they pick, and I don't think ESA overall was a failure by any means. Just explore all of your options before deciding.