European Speedster Assembly 2013 - Game Suggestions & Schedule

2013-06-12 03:03:59 pm

Basically if noone plays either Mega mans we just stare at the webcam or do a human centipede for public entertainment? Cheesy

Joka

Edit history:

Joka: 2013-06-12 03:07:31 pm

2013-06-12 03:06:28 pm

Personal text

Quote from Svenne:

Mega Man or no dice. Because atm, the only place possible to add a game would be where megaman 2 was. So if the game that you are suggesting is not megaman 2,3,4 or 6, it would not work.

...or 9 or 10? Smiley

Svenne

2013-06-12 03:14:49 pm

Smörgåsbord

The schedule has been fit to work with the current game line-up. So if the game in question is not based on a certain theme, meaning: Nintendo Smash (By any chance do you do Ice Climbers?), Classic Mega Man, NES Contra's, Ninja Gaiden or a really, really good PC game, it would not fit the profile. We have Castlevania 1 for NES suggested, a really solid NES game but even a game like that would be placed after the PC games or infront of the Nintendo block.

Mega Man 9 and 10 would work, but you have to be really good! Smiley

Meridian

2013-06-12 03:17:18 pm

Maybe shift the mega man 1 to the Mega man 2 slot so all MM games are lined up I could easy fill up the MM2 time slot with my numerous times suggested game. But thats just me.... I guess

Svenne

Edit history:

Svenne: 2013-06-12 04:23:18 pm

Svenne: 2013-06-12 03:41:57 pm

Svenne: 2013-06-12 03:34:33 pm

2013-06-12 03:33:39 pm

Smörgåsbord

Quote from Svenne:

We have a list that we use, with the cut games and suggestions from people who are coming to ESA but the games that are added from it to the schedule have to get approval by a group of several ppl. Smiley

Tetrissphere did not get accepted and I am sad to say far from getting added. We just do not feel it is a good game. The only tetris game we could consider is the other one, tetris attack. But that is simple logic, it is the only other tetris game suggested.

The schedule at this point is optimized for the current amount of games that we have. Every single change to the schedule can be followed in real time, it is something we wanted to have public. I know alot of you have been watching and there is deliberate thought for every single move we make. For every game being added there is alot of work behind the scenes. You have to know how that certain game would work with the other games around it, would it work at this given time-spot and how it will fit in the bigger picture. The greater good.

[quote="Svenne"]We have a list that we use, with the cut games and suggestions from people who are coming to ESA but the games that are added from it to the schedule have to get approval by a group of several ppl. :)[/quote]

Tetrissphere did not get accepted and I am sad to say far from getting added. We just do not feel it is a good game. The only tetris game we could consider is the other one, tetris attack. But that is simple logic, it is the only other tetris game suggested.

The schedule at this point is optimized for the current amount of games that we have. Every single change to the schedule can be followed in real time, it is something we wanted to have public. I know alot of you have been watching and there is deliberate thought for every single move we make. For every game being added there is alot of work behind the scenes. You have to know how that certain game would work with the other games around it, would it work at this given time-spot and how it will fit in the bigger picture. The greater good.

Meridian

2013-06-12 04:05:42 pm

Hmmm.... wanted to reply something solid argumented, but I'm afraid all logic and reasoning around this MM slot eludes me.
So, I pledge myself to your bidding, Master Svenne. I'm clearly the one not seeing your master plan.

PS. I'm not posting this to defend or claim my slot for Tetrisphere, cus appearantly it's the worse game in comparison.

KVD

Edit history:

KVD: 2013-06-13 05:21:31 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 04:54:25 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 04:52:57 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 04:52:12 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 04:51:33 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 04:51:10 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 04:50:47 am

2013-06-13 04:48:44 am

The greater good? Lol, you do realize you're sounding like an evangelist TV preacher now right? Trying to sell hot air with random bible quotes. We’re doing a games marathon, there is no greater good.

Anyway if we’re talking about doing this whole event as well as possible, then there’s a few angles that you can take in order to arrive there. I’d say by far the most important one would be cramming as much hype and gaming awesomeness into it as humanly possible. The schedule has to be optimized around that principle. Schedule optimalization is definitely very important and it should be used to:
1) facilitate as high a number as awesome games as possible
2) within the timespan
3) with the greatest highlights at the moments of greatest crowd exposure.
But it should be obvious that optimization and consistency of the schedule plays the second violin to having the best selection of games possible.

Say hypothetically you add Castlevania 1 in a place that doesn’t really fit very well or conveniently. So your overall schedule optimalization coefficient drops from 99.5% to 99.1%. But in return you get another hype run, instead of empty air, so the “let’s-cram-as-much-hype into-this-event-as-possible-meter” get’s cranked up a fair bit again. That scenario would be the definition of a VERY good trade-off.

In short, blocking an epic Castlevania 1 slot because it slightly inconveniences the consistency of the schedule (I mean really who cares that much about that anyway?) would not be for the greater good. In fact I would prefer calling such a decision rigid and plain stupid. Pardon my French.

The greater good? Lol, you do realize you're sounding like an evangelist TV preacher now right? Trying to sell hot air with random bible quotes. We’re doing a games marathon, there is no greater good.

Anyway if we’re talking about doing this whole event as well as possible, then there’s a few angles that you can take in order to arrive there. I’d say by far the most important one would be cramming as much hype and gaming awesomeness into it as humanly possible. The schedule has to be optimized around that principle. Schedule optimalization is definitely very important and it should be used to: 
1) facilitate as high a number as awesome games as possible 
2) within the timespan 
3) with the greatest highlights at the moments of greatest crowd exposure. 
But it should be obvious that optimization and consistency of the schedule plays the second violin to having the best selection of games possible.

Say hypothetically you add Castlevania 1 in a place that doesn’t really fit very well or conveniently. So your overall schedule optimalization coefficient drops from 99.5% to 99.1%. But in return you get another hype run, instead of empty air, so the “let’s-cram-as-much-hype into-this-event-as-possible-meter” get’s cranked up a fair bit again. That scenario would be the definition of a VERY good trade-off.

In short, blocking an epic Castlevania 1 slot because it slightly inconveniences the consistency of the schedule (I mean really who cares that much about that anyway?) would not be for the greater good. In fact I would prefer calling such a decision rigid and plain stupid. Pardon my French.

charleon

2013-06-13 05:06:59 am

What is a man?

For all that it matters, as we are mentioning castlevanias and what not to fill spots with: I have a pretty entertaining Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance Maxim all bosses run to offer if things go into crisis and beyond, est: 18 minutes (will probably take 15 - 17 minutes)

Svenne

2013-06-13 06:15:43 am

Smörgåsbord

It also depends on who is running the game. How good quality of the gameplay is. During the block after set-up one, we have alot of great players playing the best games. And everyone in the speedrunning community knows about these players and their skill. Which is why they have gotten that spot.

So the only game that fitted was GoldenEye so we placed it there, being one of the top 10 fps of all time, with quake and half-life. And for what I have seen, Eise Smit is one heck awesome runner! Smiley

KVD

Edit history:

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:56:11 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:55:55 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:49:30 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:45:58 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:44:49 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:44:31 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:43:17 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:43:07 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:42:44 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:42:15 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:41:21 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:39:30 am

KVD: 2013-06-13 08:39:15 am

2013-06-13 08:36:52 am

That's the best argument I've seen so far, however it does come accross as highly elitist.

It's like there is a vacant spot in the Champions League, but the organisation would rather give it to no club at all than to (small) club X. That attitude is extremely conservative and elitist and hinders any new developments, that could in potential evolve the scene. It's also dismissive to the party doing the request. You're basically saying: "We, the powers that be, decide that you are not fit to do the job." So rather than being open minded to newcomers, you would come accross as authoritarian and closed. Even with a hint of (misplaced?) arrogance.

There's not much wrong with Elitism, but when it is applied arbitrarily, it feels wrong. It's obvious that not all the participants on the schedule are thunder Gods at their respective game. So while some of us don't even get the opportunity to prove their gaming prowess and the merits of their suggested slot, others that might in theory bring less to the table, get a free spot. I've also seen games being dismissed on the grounds that they are not visually appealing, while the existing schedule includes slots with games that are far uglier. If you're going to defend your decisions that's a noble thing to do, but if you can't do it with even the slightest hint of consistency, perhaps it would be better to just say that the game is dismissed because the powers that be simply didn't feel like including it.

I'm really happy to see that Castlevania 1 found it's way on the schedule now though, good stuff Smiley

That's the best argument I've seen so far, however it does come accross as highly elitist.

It's like there is a vacant spot in the Champions League, but the organisation would rather give it to no club at all than to (small) club X. That attitude is extremely conservative and elitist and hinders any new developments, that could in potential evolve the scene. It's also dismissive to the party doing the request. You're basically saying: "We, the powers that be, decide that you are not fit to do the job." So rather than being open minded to newcomers, you would come accross as authoritarian and closed. Even with a hint of (misplaced?) arrogance.

There's not much wrong with Elitism, but when it is applied arbitrarily, it feels wrong. It's obvious that not all the participants on the schedule are thunder Gods at their respective game. So while some of us don't even get the opportunity to prove their gaming prowess and the merits of their suggested slot, others that might in theory bring less to the table, get a free spot. I've also seen games being dismissed on the grounds that they are not visually appealing, while the existing schedule includes slots with games that are far uglier. If you're going to defend your decisions that's a noble thing to do, but if you can't do it with even the slightest hint of consistency, perhaps it would be better to just say that the game is dismissed because the powers that be simply didn't feel like including it.

I'm really happy to see that Castlevania 1 found it's way on the schedule now though, good stuff :)

Svenne

2013-06-13 08:56:49 am

Smörgåsbord

We added Tetris Attack and Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance to the schedule. We might add Castlevania 1 also, but that is up for that runner to decide.

WMJ

2013-06-13 12:03:15 pm

I am wondering about the plans for the bonus stream. Is it possible to suggest games for that?

If so I would love to do my previously suggested Shadow Man run in the bonus stream as I will be around for the first day of it.

dxtr

2013-06-13 02:00:38 pm

Speedrunner

I think the bonus stream is up for grabs when the time arrives.

Something that we will handle there on the venue.

So it shouldnt be any problem at all.

Edenal

2013-06-14 12:18:49 am

Hockey enthusiast

The schedule is going into a finalized state.
As of this weekend, no more changes will be made. Unless there's been a mixup from our part resulting in a conflict the dates each runner has signed up for. But of course that will never happen ey?

Oh yes. I like big fonts!

WMJ

2013-06-14 04:40:31 am

Just a minor thing I noticed. Both games I am running, F-Zero X and Wipeout 64, will be on NTSC.

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-06-14 06:54:18 am

KennyMan666: 2013-06-14 05:57:44 am

2013-06-14 05:57:36 am

Precursor

And all my runs are back at ass o' clock. Lovely. Going to have to absolutely destroy my circadian rhythm. (what happened to getting at least Scott Pilgrim in the afternoon?) (edit: This has been fixed giving me at least one run in the afternoon, which I am thankful for)

Also, if I'm alive during them, put me in as a commentator for Pokémon Snap, Gyromite and Rosenkreuzstilette, if the runners allow.

KanBan85

2013-06-14 06:14:00 am

We both like money! Friends?

Could I get 5 more min (KanBan85 on Braid, Thursday at 20:50) to show off some new pro strats that I will not be able to preform in the run itself?

Svenne

2013-06-14 07:14:52 am

Smörgåsbord

Quote from WMJ:

Just a minor thing I noticed. Both games I am running, F-Zero X and Wipeout 64, will be on NTSC.

Fixed!

KennyMan: Fixed the first thing. I will write you up on commentary on RTS and Gyro, you have to ask GG about pokemon snap! Smiley

Quote from KanBan85:

Could I get 5 more min (KanBan85 on Braid, Thursday at 20:50) to show off some new pro strats that I will not be able to preform in the run itself?

I don't know, are these tricks like game crashing onces and could potentionally ruin a run? Like the orb in super mario world?

KanBan85

2013-06-14 07:17:24 am

We both like money! Friends?

Nono, this will be after the run, and it won't shut anything down Wink

Svenne

2013-06-14 07:21:24 am

Smörgåsbord

So why not try everyone atleast once in the run and if you fail, use the back-up strats? I know that the time limit for a Braid speedrun is 40 minutes and you have 35 atm. Why show up stuff you will not use, might aswell not show them at all or people might think, why did you not use them in the first place. Smiley

KanBan85

2013-06-14 08:36:02 am

We both like money! Friends?

Well, it's a bit complicated. Some are very random, others build on each other (so if I don't get A I can't get B) and some are too risky for SS unless you want to break the world record. I wan't to show my best time, and don't wan't risky strategies ruining that. I can showcase some of them, but I'd prefer to do it after the run if possible.

Alko

2013-06-14 12:52:04 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Please take me off of the Donkey Kong Country commentary (I just said that one in case noone else signed up; I'ld be a lowsy commentator)
Otherwise I don't have any complaints ^^
Also: I prefer your small font sizes, Edenal (;

WERY

2013-06-14 06:19:01 pm

The Duce

Quote from KennyMan666:

Also, if I'm alive during them, put me in as a commentator for Pokémon Snap, Gyromite and Rosenkreuzstilette, if the runners allow

It's a go

I better of focusing on the game, so I better not explaining the game myself

tape

2013-06-23 02:29:50 pm

I made a version of the schedule which automatically coverts all dates and times to the viewer's time zone (or at least the time zone their operating system is set to). It's online here, and downloadable here. It runs entirely on the browser, so no server support is needed. It can load the data directly from the spreadsheet linked on the first page, but because that spreadsheet isn't published (it's public, but that's not enough to access it as JSON) it works on a copy.

So far, I haven't heard anything bad about it. Feel free to do whatever you want with it. But if you want to do anything with it, you really should publish the spreadsheet and replace the spreadsheet key in the 21st line in index.html with your own one. And if you don't want it at all, that's fine too.

I made a version of the schedule which automatically coverts all dates and times to the viewer's time zone (or at least the time zone their operating system is set to). [url=http://tapesoftware.net/esa2013-schedule/]It's online here[/url], and downloadable [url=http://tapesoftware.net/esa2013-schedule/schedule.zip]here[/url]. It runs entirely on the browser, so no server support is needed. It can load the data directly from the [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al2bOTojRyCldHpiZjJlZUtRRDJ2N21KVG5aNUdXaUE#gid=0]spreadsheet linked on the first page[/url], but because that spreadsheet isn't published (it's public, but that's not enough to access it as JSON) it works on a copy.

So far, I haven't heard anything bad about it. Feel free to do whatever you want with it. But if you want to do anything with it, you really should publish the spreadsheet and replace the spreadsheet key in the 21st line in index.html with your own one. And if you don't want it at all, that's fine too.

Alko

2013-06-23 02:39:55 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

A beauty. I feel we should try and implement that on the ESA webpage.