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everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
This should be a fairly easy game to run for an RPG. (In fact, I don't want to do it for precisely that reason.) Levels aren't a problem, money is certainly not a problem with the photography, you can skip cutscenes, it's easy to avoid enemies, and it's pretty straightforward overall.

spineshark wants to run this game after he finishes running Radiata Stories. He couldn't be more happier with the wide pathways I assume.

tri-Ace Fanboy proves he is also a tri-Crescendo fan? He has vids of all the bosses on encore (ng+).


It's late and I'm too lazy to summarize, I will just paste from IRC.

<Enhasa> i just remembered, i'm going to start an es thread 
<Enhasa> what should i say 
<Enhasa> anything in particular i mean
<Enhasa> i'm writing it so if you're not actually here oh well 
<spineshark> haha
<spineshark> i dunno, it all seems so obvious
<Enhasa> well you got like 2 mins before i probably finish writing lol 
<spineshark> best characters, take pictures against tuba and sell them, buy trumpets, etc.
<Enhasa> what about leveling for the boar 
<Enhasa> just 2 fights, you're in level 2 
<Enhasa> i dunno how many for 3 
<Enhasa> level 2 would probably be faster right 
<Enhasa> gotta be 
<spineshark> probably
<Enhasa> the boar won't ex turn you infinitely 
<spineshark> since at 1 you have to spend like more than a whole turn healing
<Enhasa> ok that's it? 
<Enhasa> i'm gonna create the thread lol 
<spineshark> I can't think of much
<Enhasa> what a useless thread this will be
Thread title:  
Let's fight to computer!
Quote:
spineshark wants to run this game after he finishes running Radiata Stories.

So, watch for it around 2011?
Edit history:
Enhasa: 2008-01-29 03:53:59 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
I guess the next obvious thing to discuss are which characters are actually good.

I remember all the lame importers thought "omg Viola is so broken" because they are the kind of people who are always wrong about everything and also because Viola's character design would make them all think that regardless of the evidence. This isn't Samurai Shodown 5. Being an archer is not broken. Unless the "really far away, headshot" tech is really that good. I'd have to test, but I doubt it.

Anyway I think that the best characters are Falsetto #1, and then the wondertwins March and Salsa (I get them mixed up). The most important stat is speed, i.e. how fast do you take your next turn. This becomes even more broken when you get higher party levels where everyone can string attacks and generally you just pound everyone.

Other good characters are Viola and Retto (especially when he has that weapon with burst). Then whoever else, and then bottom tier is Beat and Polka. I don't know what the public sentiments are regarding tier. They force you to mix your party up all the time, which I appreciate.

Another thing is that the levels people comes at matter. When Jazz, Falsetto, and Claves come their levels are so high they are superfriends. So since me and spineshark play at min levels (the boar at level 1 is very tense, trust me), we of course swapped in superfriends. So even though Jazz isn't the best overall, while he is overleveled, he is good. Actually of that group, Claves still might not make the cut, because she's pretty bad at attacking the entire game until the end of the postgame when she gets that good move.
I'm the guy who complains yet never submits XD
boss fights are really hard at low levels
especially that pirate
THE GAME!!
I hope it comes out on PS3 soon. Smiley
Edit history:
spineshark: 2008-01-28 07:28:21 pm
新世紀進歩的羽扇子 音楽
Quote:
So, watch for it around 2011?

Sounds a little early there...

Anyway, I wasn't going to say anything about it yet, and I both want and don't want to do this run for the same reason Enhasa says he won't.  On one hand, this seems like an easy, short and pretty fun little project.  On the other hand, I'm not sure that's possible for any run.  And even if it is, it's still like empty speedrunning calories.

Either way, I don't think this is my next project anyway.  I've been investigating a couple others lately and they're a lot more interesting.  But nothing's even remotely sure until I finish RS.

Also with respect to Viola, we've talked about this a little before but above all she gets worse as the game goes on.  Shooting the bow is pretty slow because you press the button, change camera angles, aim, and then shoot at a relatively slow rate.  So even though you can get big numbers, I'm not sure the damage per turn is that great.  Since the party level going up both reduces the amount of time you have to act and increases the importance of echoes, the bow attack becomes less useful in both ways.
Edit history:
Enhasa: 2008-01-29 04:26:42 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Quote:
Also with respect to Viola, we've talked about this a little before but above all she gets worse as the game goes on.  Shooting the bow is pretty slow because you press the button, change camera angles, aim, and then shoot at a relatively slow rate.  So even though you can get big numbers, I'm not sure the damage per turn is that great.  Since the party level going up both reduces the amount of time you have to act and increases the importance of echoes, the bow attack becomes less useful in both ways.

Yeah, most people just look at stats and damage and are influenced by plot and character design, which is why people somehow think the orcs are good in Radiata Stories. The most important factors are speed-based. 1) how fast your next turn comes up is paramount, then 2) how fast you attack is also very important, and even 3) how fast you move, so you can spend more time hitting and less time in transit.

Quote:
I hope it comes out on PS3 soon. Smiley

Let's make a trade! How about the next Ueda game? Hey, if Bungie can leave MS...

I think we can all agree console exclusivity sucks.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Ok then, I wasn't going to bother posting this since I know spineshark knows, but since it's possible someone will try this instead, I might as well say it.

Before you get echoes, the goal is to maximize the number of special moves (usually 2-3), and get the little dinky hits in there in the time overage. End with a special of course. Also this game is extremely nice with continuation: you can finish out your string of regular hits before tacking on the special at the end. During this time, the time that each special takes is very important. You want higher damage/time ratio and of course as always your goal is to maximize damage in a turn.

Once you get echoes, every single turn is just: walk up to the enemy (not right in front so it doesn't get blocked), pound pound pound etc and special at the end. Now the time specials take hardly matters at all. In general for the whole game, the specials that do more hits are better. This is even more amplified with echoes since echoes are really good and give a big bonus to each individual hit. Later on, the more hits at the end even carries over to the next person. Honestly, this game almost revels in its brokenness. Falsetto and wondertwins get to go over and over again, their specials do tons of hits, and they act and run around fast.

Buying stuff is very obvious and vapid like a FF game, so don't need to go into that.

As for items in battle, the best thing to do is just load up all the way with Angel's Trumpet. It's cheap and it's the best anyway. The cost values for most of the items are just laughable. The only problem (and it's minor) with all Angel's Trumpets is that you can be in a situation where everyone is almost dead, and then the boss goes and you wipe.

So for normal play, it's best to throw in exactly one other type of item (should be best cookie available since they cost only 1 and prevent the wiping scenario, but if you are on a particularly easy boss you can moderate group heal). This is because it wastes time scrolling for the item you want. This way, you can just hover to the boundary with RT (say, AT AT AT^ PC PC) and get whichever type you want easily. But, for a speedrun, you can just retry if you get massively unlucky and wipe (very doubtful).

As long as people are close enough to the boss, they seem to attack your people evenly. So you can't really hotswap and have one person tank until near death, swap the tank, etc.

Oh and no healer is necessary in battle, for normal play, and especially for a speedrun. I thought suggesting Carlie in SD3 was bad enough, if someone suggests Polka here I will go nuts.
Direct Assault!
Viola is broken, but it depends on the boss. Check my 1st Tuba fight, she does around 18k damage with her normal bow attacks, so around 4 seconds total. A 32 Echoes Harmony Chain with 4 moves does 28000 total, but takes 20 seconds, and you can't use Harmony Chains until after Fugue in the 1st playthrough.

Her only problems are against small or flying targets, which aren't frequent. And in those cases she can attack from close range, or use Hawkeye (level 20) from any range and boost the damage of the next special attack. Once you get Party Level 4 she can do both with Bone Crumble + Hawkeye, she just needs a shadow.

And she still has other numerous advantages, especially for speed runs. Joins early, is only unavailable for 2 bosses after she joins, great weapons (strong, easy to get, many give a boost to her movement speed), many skills with infinite range, very fast 24+ Echoes animations (2 seconds, Falsetto's are 6 seconds at least), special accessories that boost her ATK further... there's probably more if we pick specific situations.

She might be under Falsetto once she returns for Rondo at level 33, but there's not much left at that point, and once you reach Chapter 7 you can buy Viola's best main game weapon immediately.

I can't see March and Salsa working well together, that's more Echoes than you'll ever need and they're sort of weak. Most of their weapons are "elemental" and I have no idea how these work, they just seemed to suck on anything I used. All Salsa has over March is Shadow Silhouette, but March joins at a higher level with the only skills she'll ever need (Super Nova and Full-Moon Bind).

(EDIT: March can also use armor with ATK boosts)

My tier list for the 1st playthrough (or rather, any Party Level other than 6) is Viola > Falsetto > March > Allegretto > Salsa > Beat > Jazz > Frederic > Polka.

As for items, Hell Mustards are highly effective too but you can only buy them early in the game (up to Andante I think). Status effects can be useful too: the boar is vulnerable to Poison, Stop (Full-Moon Bind) works on Waltz... there's probably more. The stat-reducers seem to work on anything but they didn't seem to make much of a difference when I used them.

Only other thing I can think of mentioning is Counterattack abuse. You can only counter the 1st action of the enemy's turn, and it seems to come up around 25% of the time. If you're patient enough you can manipulate this so that no boss after Fugue ever gets to attack.
THE GAME!!
It actually is getting ported to the PS3, along with Beautiful Katamari. Smiley
Edit history:
spineshark: 2008-01-29 11:43:20 pm
新世紀進歩的羽扇子 音楽
Quote:
Only other thing I can think of mentioning is Counterattack abuse. You can only counter the 1st action of the enemy's turn, and it seems to come up around 25% of the time. If you're patient enough you can manipulate this so that no boss after Fugue ever gets to attack.

Oh, I should've thought of this.  Yeah, I don't think this is my next run =p
Quote:
So for normal play, it's best to throw in exactly one other type of item (should be best cookie available since they cost only 1 and prevent the wiping scenario, but if you are on a particularly easy boss you can moderate group heal). This is because it wastes time scrolling for the item you want. This way, you can just hover to the boundary with RT (say, AT AT AT^ PC PC) and get whichever type you want easily. But, for a speedrun, you can just retry if you get massively unlucky and wipe (very doubtful).

This has nothing to do with anything actually, but Clovers are better for this sort of thing Wink
100% runs=great to watch
Quote:
It actually is getting ported to the PS3, along with Beautiful Katamari. Smiley


It'll have some manner of extra and/or changed content too.  Seems like I recall mention of another playable character.
THE GAME!!
I have no idea whether there's any new characters, but I know it'll have extra features. And because I don't have a 360 and i'm not about to get one, i'll wait for the PS3 release.
I'm the guy who complains yet never submits XD
i think cresendo and serenade are the new playable characters in the ps3 version, and some new clothes strangely enough.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Well, I definitely trust anyone who has played encore over anyone who hasn't (including me and spineshark). All I did was beat the game, then beat the postgame. I'll probably get to encore eventually.

Ok, I watched your Tuba fight, weird. I guess the "really far away" tech actually is true. I played through the game without looking at any info or talking to anyone, and in that situation I never thought to try standing really far away because it is completely illogical that this would be better (farther away = more power doesn't exactly hold true in real life). I heard of this after I stopped playing the game, but I never bothered testing it. The strange part about this is that the balance is so bad, it seems like there was a typo in the programming or something. Like this is doing 10x the damage it should. And photographs sell for 100x the amount they should, or something. Maybe something with the aiming viewfinder? It's like Office Space with the shifted decimal point. Tongue

I stand by my old Viola opinion given my ignorance of the distance factor. I used her just for Bone Crumble and she is still good. Although I do want to say, I have never heard she is broken because of the regular attack. It was always about having group healing and an infinite range move, neither of which are very important in this game compared to other games.

Oh, I do want to say: since it appears there are parties that are even more broken than Falsetto, March, Salsa at party level 6, I am having difficulty just comprehending this. I did minimum regular fights the whole game, and every boss is a total joke other than the boar, including the postgame ones. They barely even get to act before they are dead. It's all ex turns, and each one has 6 specials, and each special does 9 or 12 or 13 hits (building up more echoes) and includes attack and defense boosts (Shadow Silhouette, etc) on the entire team. It's horrific to watch, really. Kind of like sniper Viola. Shocked

As an aside, I just realized people say "OMG Dolce is the hardest boss in the game" for the same idiotic reasons (character design, groupthink, personal infatuations) as before. It's the same with people saying Guillo is harder than the Holoholobird in Baten Kaitos 2. It's incredible.



I figured out roughly how elemental weapons worked before, but I forgot. I'm sure you noticed that whenever you get one, it would be great if the regular + elemental was just regular. So under the correct circumstances, the weapon is merely good, and under the wrong ones, it is only regular + 0 which is terrible. I think this is how it works, but like I said I forgot. I think it's not based on the enemy at all. I think the darkness part of the sum is there if and only if you are in darkness. I remember using the shining body and darkness body equipment, but I don't know if it was for the elemental weapons or simply for the best specials.

What does Hell Mustard do, I forgot. Is it like Last Resort from Radiata Stories (that would be great!) or is it a percentage buff or what?

I knew the boar is vulnerable to poison because when I was fighting him at level 1, I tried everything to see if there was a better way to do it. Well, it was working great until it ran out. Wink It was less cost effective for that situation than simply more Angel's Trumpets though. That was for normal play. Obviously for a speedrun, the extra damage would be a good idea.
Rawr!
I think Hell Mustard grants Burst status, which increases attack power. It's been a while since I've played this.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Thanks. Burst is ridiculous, so that really is a good idea.
Edit history:
Slayer_0: 2008-01-31 08:58:27 pm
Rawr!
So for boss battles, I guess Hell Mustards, Angel Trumpets, and the one healing item would be the best bet. I guess a good setup would be

^
|
Hell Mustard
Healing item
Angel Trumpet
|
|
|
V

Or something along those lines. I'd run this if I had more time and the equipment for the game. Oh, and time. Lots of time.

Also, there's the items that give you a light or dark aura, in case you want to abuse certain attacks from characters.

EDIT: If I was going to run this, what kind of recording equipment would I need? Capture card, DVD recorder, what.
Edit history:
tri-Ace Fanboy: 2010-08-15 05:39:19 am
tri-Ace Fanboy: 2010-08-15 05:39:01 am
tri-Ace Fanboy: 2008-04-28 02:30:17 pm
Direct Assault!
DVD recorder is the easiest way, I think.

Level 99 stats for all characters (from http://www.23ch.info/test/read.cgi/goverrpg/1182617074/ - thanks to LastFencer from GameFAQs for the link):

HP:
1st - Jazz (96,747)
2nd - Claves (90,526)
3rd - Allegretto (83,657)
4th - Falsetto (82,389)
5th - Viola (81,340)
6th - Frederic (80,815)
7th - Salsa (79,562)
8th - Beat (72,776)
9th - Polka (70,070)
10th - March (68,044)

ATK:
1st - Jazz (523)
2nd - Claves (518)
3rd - Allegretto (504)
4th - Falsetto (488)
5th - Viola (484)
6th - Frederic (468)
7th - Salsa (456)
8th - Polka (447)
9th - Beat (442)
10th - March (414)

DEF:
1st - Claves (516)
2nd - Jazz (410)
3rd - March (402)
4th - Allegretto (390)
5th - Falsetto (377)
6th - Salsa (356)
7th - Frederic (356)
8th - Polka (343)
9th - Beat (338)
10th - Viola (337)

MAG:
1st - Polka (573)
2nd - Claves (565)
3rd - Frederic (535)
4th - Allegretto (484)
5th/6th - Viola and March (477)
7th - Salsa (425)
8th - Beat (420)
9th - Falsetto (402)
10th - Jazz (390)

SPD:
1st/2nd - Claves and Falsetto (491)
3rd - Salsa (458)
4th - Viola (449)
5th - Allegretto (438)
6th - March (421)
7th - Beat (386)
8th - Frederic (383)
9th - Polka (377)
10th - Jazz (327)

March looks kind of disappointing considering her weapons suck so much. Maybe Salsa is a better choice, or even Allegretto? Hard to say without knowing how the numbers work.

Also Harmony Chains are glitched. Examples: At the 3:24 chain Allegretto uses 3 skills.

And better yet, Viola uses Bone Crumble twice in the same chain (3:04).

1st glitch might be for Plvl 6 only but the 2nd might work on Plvl 4. I think what happens is that Bone Crumble is her only Dark skill and she keeps going in/out of a shadow because she moves a lot during the attack, so the game checks that she can use another skill when she's in the light but she moves back to a shadow when it's time to use the attack.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Neat glitch.

Who knew Claves was such an insane stat powerhouse at level 99? Although this isn't very useful in practice, either for a speedrun or even in normal play. Seems like more of a thing the RPGDL people would care about, but interesting anyway I guess. Wink
I want off the ride....
someone needs to get this done... for either the ps3 or 360... though I think the ps3 has more tricks to that pony. Since you can't spam camera for money whoring... I would love to help out on this; I would say I'd do it but I doubt i'd have the resolve to do another RPG after sd3.. especially since SD3 progress is slow as $H!T;

Though now that I think about it; what would 100% be considered?
All bosses? or would it also include all of the musical pieces (for NG only those only available in a first play through)?

Its all cool... Besides I just also wanna say...

Its funny when you nerf attack of bosses (namely Fugue) with Fredericks Mirage Attack..
新世紀進歩的羽扇子 音楽
Wait, they fixed the camera money on PS3 so you don't get enough from taking pictures in the Tuba fight to last the whole game?

Maybe that version is worth playing then =o
Quote from spineshark:
Quote:
So, watch for it around 2011?

Sounds a little early there...

I also like how this is still 100% true.
I want off the ride....
Quote from spineshark:
Wait, they fixed the camera money on PS3 so you don't get enough from taking pictures in the Tuba fight to last the whole game?

Maybe that version is worth playing then =o
Quote from spineshark:
Quote:
So, watch for it around 2011?

Sounds a little early there...

I also like how this is still 100% true.

Yeah bosses give you slightly more money, but at the point of the game I'm in, where I'm about to go to Aria temple A rank normal moster is ~1k and B rank normal is ~300-400g. Bosses like just add 500g to those values. You also have to get good photos, Rank C sell for shit (double digits IF YOUR LUCKY). Which can be hard. There are some other things you can do that are easier but other things are just harder.
I want off the ride....
its offical, the ps3 version would be longer and much much much more hellish...

if only cause Waltz + Ruined body = PAIN;

Hell after that frederick was a cake walk... /sigh.

Things that need to be done:
1. Seriously... Seriously!!! take on dolce EVERYTIME. she gives omega exp and some nice items.
2. Don't fail at blocking.. cause that alone caused all of my deaths... I hate waltz' "You miss this.. oh you did and your dead" set. Where he hits 5 times into his death attack.
3. Consider whenever beat is in the party (early) to always take 12 (the cap) photos of bosses for money (A rank!)... or else you'll be dead ass tight for money later (hell i was)
bosses give more moneys but not that much more...
4. Learn to aim with Viola... I was happy I managed to pull ~400k rounds on waltz (yeah 6 arrows for a little over 60k a hit) but i had to be on the otherside of the arena...
5. rinse-repeat-action

Since there is a speed run FAQ on gamefaqs which puts a xbawks360 clear time at about 3:30; with the extra dungeon and extra nastyness.. I'd almost wanna say that the ps3 should take about 30-45 minutes longer. Some bosses were just tweaked to be hell yo!
Edit history:
maxamix: 2009-08-21 04:30:59 pm
i just completed a normal run through (my first) while looking at all scenes with a clear time of 15h55 (just before frederic) (ps3 version)

i will give it a shot, so if any1 would like to help me, here's my e-mail : hockeymanbraves22005544@msn.com

at this point, my main party (the one i will take when i can) will be jazz, retto and viola (for her healing arrow)
any suggestion / glitch i could use?

oh and i was wondering if i should try to make this min level at the same time...

hoping for some awnsers

edit :-i wont be doing min level cuz i can't imagine beating ruined + waltz on min level in a speed run... i'll be underleveled.
      -looking at the speed FAQ i realized that the PS3 loading/saving is longer... so maybe the ps3 version will clock in about 4h15 for a very well run... i'm still on my tryings ( i cleared first boss in just 1 sec longer than x360 version)