Escape Goat 2

2014-03-25 05:13:14 am

There is an achievement for beating the game under 30 minutes. So far the fastest any% runs are at just under 30 minutes.

100% is a totally different story, with later/secret levels becoming much harder. So that's up in the air.

So many puzzle skips to be found.

Thread title:

Vulajin

2014-03-26 02:05:00 am

I'm really bad at room strats for puzzle platformers, so I did a run with really crappy mostly-intended routes and came up with 22:44 game time (26:41 real time): http://www.twitch.tv/vulajin/c/3954926

Judging by the room strats ZDWario is showing off on his stream tonight, this time is really not all that good. This is a lot of fun to run, though, so I'm looking forward to improving it by a ton.

ZDWario

2014-03-26 05:58:12 am

The best of the night I got was like 21:06. 13 deaths

Yagamoth

2014-03-26 06:12:34 am

INTJ

I'm tempted to compete a little.. Just a little... But first off, I need to find the last 4 secrets.

In any case, even if I don't decide to pick this up as a speedrun, I'm going to be happily suggesting various strategies for rooms if you don't already figure them out. I absolutely love this game ^^

OrthoLabs

2014-03-27 06:25:17 am

Hello. First time posting on this website, not super familiar with the community. Yagamoth said he was going to be posting about my run, just thought I should jump in here to say hi. Smiley

19:37 game time | 23:31 real time | 2 deaths

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 09:53:50 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 06:59:17 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 06:58:22 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 06:38:18 am

2014-03-27 06:30:39 am

INTJ

Just found a thread over at Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/21hveu/escape_goat_2_pb_wr_1937_game_2331_real_2_deaths/

Quote:

Streamed on my twitch channel while doing a race with someone I had just met, Calistus. If anyone has a better time or knows someone with a better time, please do link me. Smiley

http://www.twitch.tv/ortholabs

She has a really neat speedrun of this game. I can already see a lot of potential improvements. As in - a lot is theory right now, and I'm not sure whether all my strategies would work out.

1-1:
1-2: You can easily get to the top right with a dash-jump-jump (DJJ?) before hitting any of the switches. Then you drop down, hit the switch in the middle and head to the exit
1-3: Dashing towards the gap should be an option, other than that the strategy is solid
1-4:
1-5: I'll have to test some stuff, there might be a more optimal strategy. Not sure yet.

2-1: Looks solid. I want to test whether it's faster to go the upper route yourself instead of using the rat though.
2-2: I wonder whether manually triggering some stones to fall could lead to a faster strategy
2-3: You can trigger the whole thing in a way, so the key will fall down in the end
2-4: Drop down a rat at the start, so the initial blocks get removed (You'll have to manually recall the rat before the blast hits it). Optimally you can also trigger a second blast to pass through the gap right after you hit the switch. To be tested. Also, to get the key faster, you could use the rat as a shield from a fire thingy

3-1: On the blocks before the exit, leave the rat on the floor so you can already jump a little bit up while the lower dude melts the ice
3-2: At the start, you can leave the rat on the right switch instead of moving the iceblock over (I don't know whether that messes up the rest of the level though, to be tested)
3-3: We might be able to boost-jump-throw the rat all the way to the switch above at the right.. to be tested
3-4: You can drop down the rat on the key while crossing to the left for a last swap before the exit

4-1: I 'think' I made that stage without going to the first switch on the left. reasonably certain that's faster
4-2: I like that strategy. I didn't think of anything clever myself yet, so this looks very nice
4-3: Way better than what I did, but we have to test whether boost-jumping to get the key directly would be faster (potentially dashing past the reaper with a rat shield)
4-4: It's fairly easy to simply only drop downt he blocks on the right and go to the exit directly. Hard to explain though since I can't test this right now

5-1: I like this strategy. I didn't come up with anything more clever up to now, but there is potential
5-2: You can launch the rat before getting the hat, other than that really solid
5-3:
5-4: This room can be improved substantially by using clever timing to let the rats walk instead of setting them down in each room. I haven't done any testing on this yet though. Don't forget that the switch could also be triggered by a rat and you already be in a side area.

6-1: You can do a very tricky boost jump on the left side to get up to the platform and head over to press the switch yourself (leave the rat at the gate to keep it open) and then move directly to the exit. Other than that, your strategy looks like a solid (and way easier) alternative.
6-2: I think this can be improved, strategy-wise, but I haven't put and thought into it yet
6-3:
6-4:

8-1: Solid strategy. You can also do a dash to the exit and exit
8-2: You can a boost-jump directly to the last breakable box
8-3:
8-4: Maybe letting the rat run around could a tiny little bit faster?
8-Orb: don't forget that the rat can activate switches

9-0: We might be able to boost jump to the exit... Need to test
9-1: There is certainly a quicker strategy than this, but I haven't fully tested it yet
9-2: I don't know whether here is a quicker strategy possible. It looks like it, but I can't think of anything right now
9-3: You can boost-jump your way to the exit
9-4: I like this strategy
9-5: There is a substantially quicker way to do this (not sure if you simply messed up or that's your strategy). At the start, you can let the rat run alongside the skeleton worm to activate the switch earlier

~~First post submit, because I have to take a quick break. Also I just saw Ortho post something ^^ (I didn't expect this to take that long to write down notes)~~

And that's that. Welcome OrthoLabs, your run is a really awesome basis Smiley

Just found a thread over at Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/21hveu/escape_goat_2_pb_wr_1937_game_2331_real_2_deaths/
[quote]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DOeOCPNwDw

Streamed on my twitch channel while doing a race with someone I had just met, Calistus. If anyone has a better time or knows someone with a better time, please do link me. :)

http://www.twitch.tv/ortholabs
[/quote]

She has a really neat speedrun of this game. I can already see a lot of potential improvements. As in - a lot is theory right now, and I'm not sure whether all my strategies would work out.

1-1: 
1-2: You can easily get to the top right with a dash-jump-jump (DJJ?) before hitting any of the switches. Then you drop down, hit the switch in the middle and head to the exit
1-3: Dashing towards the gap should be an option, other than that the strategy is solid
1-4: 
1-5: I'll have to test some stuff, there might be a more optimal strategy. Not sure yet.

2-1: Looks solid. I want to test whether it's faster to go the upper route yourself instead of using the rat though.
2-2: I wonder whether manually triggering some stones to fall could lead to a faster strategy
2-3: You can trigger the whole thing in a way, so the key will fall down in the end
2-4: Drop down a rat at the start, so the initial blocks get removed (You'll have to manually recall the rat before the blast hits it). Optimally you can also trigger a second blast to pass through the gap right after you hit the switch. To be tested. Also, to get the key faster, you could use the rat as a shield from a fire thingy

3-1: On the blocks before the exit, leave the rat on the floor so you can already jump a little bit up while the lower dude melts the ice
3-2: At the start, you can leave the rat on the right switch instead of moving the iceblock over (I don't know whether that messes up the rest of the level though, to be tested)
3-3: We might be able to boost-jump-throw the rat all the way to the switch above at the right.. to be tested
3-4: You can drop down the rat on the key while crossing to the left for a last swap before the exit

4-1: I 'think' I made that stage without going to the first switch on the left. reasonably certain that's faster
4-2: I like that strategy. I didn't think of anything clever myself yet, so this looks very nice
4-3: Way better than what I did, but we have to test whether boost-jumping to get the key directly would be faster (potentially dashing past the reaper with a rat shield)
4-4: It's fairly easy to simply only drop downt he blocks on the right and go to the exit directly. Hard to explain though since I can't test this right now

5-1: I like this strategy. I didn't come up with anything more clever up to now, but there is potential
5-2: You can launch the rat before getting the hat, other than that really solid
5-3: 
5-4: This room can be improved substantially by using clever timing to let the rats walk instead of setting them down in each room. I haven't done any testing on this yet though. Don't forget that the switch could also be triggered by a rat and you already be in a side area.

6-1: You can do a very tricky boost jump on the left side to get up to the platform and head over to press the switch yourself (leave the rat at the gate to keep it open) and then move directly to the exit. Other than that, your strategy looks like a solid (and way easier) alternative.
6-2: I think this can be improved, strategy-wise, but I haven't put and thought into it yet
6-3: 
6-4:

8-1: Solid strategy. You can also do a dash to the exit and exit
8-2: You can a boost-jump directly to the last breakable box
8-3: 
8-4: Maybe letting the rat run around could a tiny little bit faster?
8-Orb: don't forget that the rat can activate switches

9-0: We might be able to boost jump to the exit... Need to test
9-1: There is certainly a quicker strategy than this, but I haven't fully tested it yet
9-2: I don't know whether here is a quicker strategy possible. It looks like it, but I can't think of anything right now
9-3: You can boost-jump your way to the exit
9-4: I like this strategy
9-5: There is a substantially quicker way to do this (not sure if you simply messed up or that's your strategy). At the start, you can let the rat run alongside the skeleton worm to activate the switch earlier

[s]First post submit, because I have to take a quick break. Also I just saw Ortho post something ^^ (I didn't expect this to take that long to write down notes)[/s]

And that's that. Welcome OrthoLabs, your run is a really awesome basis :)

OrthoLabs

Edit history:

OrthoLabs: 2014-03-27 08:08:06 am

OrthoLabs: 2014-03-27 08:03:04 am

OrthoLabs: 2014-03-27 07:12:48 am

2014-03-27 06:42:53 am

Very helpful, I'll look into all of those notes myself, and just a note, she*. Thanks for the analysis. Smiley

Edit:
DISCLAIMER: Henry is the name I have chosen for the rat. It's not official, just what I like to call him. Tongue

1-2: You're absolutely right, that will save a lot of time.
1-3: Yes, you can dash, but if you just hold left and dash as soon as you can you go off the edge without having your dash, and have a slow double jump. Either method seems to have roughly the same time. Might have to do a much more precise timing.

2-1: I just did timing, it seems to actually save a few seconds to use the lower path like I did and throw Henry. You don't have to loop back around. The best thing that can happen to this level I think is to figure out if we can place Henry anywhere where we will hit the button exactly when we need him to.
2-2: The problem with manually breaking the boxes to let the rocks fall is that it puts out the chain of fire, so you can't get out as quickly, or you let the last rock fall and you lock off the key. Not sure there is a better way.
2-3: Oh jeez yes, there is a MUCH faster way and I'm stupid. You let Henry up like I do in my run, but don't let him hit the button yet, call him back. When the fire balls start going over there, throw Henry up there to hit the button, the boxes come down right as the ball is exploding, causing a chain reaction where the key falls down and then a flaming ball falls down as well, letting the key down. (VIDEO)
2-4: You're right. The best way I've found is to drop Henry as soon as you fall off so the fireball is triggered and he's out of the way, dash over the top of the boxes, hit the switch and then duck down to the left, triggering the guy to shoot another fireball, then dash to the right so you're snug against the box as the fireball is coming, Down+B to drop Henry right next to the box, step back a bit, wait for it to blow up Henry. Much faster, but a good bit harder. (VIDEO)

3-1: You are right, that does save a bit of time. Noted for my runs.
3-2: It works SOMETIMES.. But for some reason it doesn't work all of the times. I haven't been able to get a consistent way to do it.
3-3: Even with the half block, I couldn't throw the rat high enough. This still feels like a level that you could go faster in though.
3-4: Very simple optimzation, very nice.

4-1: It can be done if you use Henry to block the fireballs, but I'm not sure if it's faster. This needs to be tested more thoroughly. It's definitely a lot more dangerous though. If you instead wait for him to turn around, that would work without the Henry blocking, but it might still be slower.
4-3: If by boost jumping you mean jumping on the block, I have tried that a bunch of times and haven't been able to get onto the box with a solid jump. If that can be done, it should probably be faster. Especially if you are able to dash through the reaper after he shoots a fireball to the left.
4-4: So there is a very consistent method, and then there is a very dangerous method. (VIDEO)

5-2: I get the hat first so I can launch Henry higher. It didn't work super well in my run because I was just made aware of that route from another person who plans on running the game.
5-4: Yeah you can almost definitely set things up better. But I didn't want to put a ton of time into timing Henry clones walking and making sure they don't die.

6-1: Again with the boost jumps. You'll definitely have to get video of this because I don't know what you mean. I've tried jumping up on the left but can't land the jump.
6-2: You can optimize around the sawblades a little bit, especially if you can time it so you won't get hit by the sawblades at all or the mouse is able to destroy them as he goes to the platform. This is the optimal path that I've found. http://i.imgur.com/fFhwK8s.jpg

8-2: Again with me not understanding what you mean. Sad

8-4: You could also lose time if he's on the wrong side.
8-Orb: Yeah, putting the rat down facing right on the red block makes things go a tad faster.

9-0: More boost jumps that I know nothing about. Tongue

9-2: The Lair is my most un-practiced. I was mostly aiming for safe and consistent strats for this entire section, so basically everything can probably be optimized. Also, screw bone worms. Tongue

9-3: Boost jumps~
9-5: Yeah I was shown the better strategy for this level AFTER that run. (VIDEO- Credit HenryWatson)

Very helpful, I'll look into all of those notes myself, and just a note, she*. Thanks for the analysis. :)

Edit:
DISCLAIMER: Henry is the name I have chosen for the rat. It's not official, just what I like to call him. :P

1-2: You're absolutely right, that will save a lot of time.
1-3: Yes, you can dash, but if you just hold left and dash as soon as you can you go off the edge without having your dash, and have a slow double jump. Either method seems to have roughly the same time. Might have to do a much more precise timing.

2-1: I just did timing, it seems to actually save a few seconds to use the lower path like I did and throw Henry. You don't have to loop back around. The best thing that can happen to this level I think is to figure out if we can place Henry anywhere where we will hit the button exactly when we need him to.
2-2: The problem with manually breaking the boxes to let the rocks fall is that it puts out the chain of fire, so you can't get out as quickly, or you let the last rock fall and you lock off the key. Not sure there is a better way.
2-3: Oh jeez yes, there is a MUCH faster way and I'm stupid. You let Henry up like I do in my run, but don't let him hit the button yet, call him back. When the fire balls start going over there, throw Henry up there to hit the button, the boxes come down right as the ball is exploding, causing a chain reaction where the key falls down and then a flaming ball falls down as well, letting the key down. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ggZUYzxlZM](VIDEO)[/url]
2-4: You're right. The best way I've found is to drop Henry as soon as you fall off so the fireball is triggered and he's out of the way, dash over the top of the boxes, hit the switch and then duck down to the left, triggering the guy to shoot another fireball, then dash to the right so you're snug against the box as the fireball is coming, Down+B to drop Henry right next to the box, step back a bit, wait for it to blow up Henry. Much faster, but a good bit harder. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcIMIqfamv8](VIDEO)[/url]

3-1: You are right, that does save a bit of time. Noted for my runs.
3-2: It works SOMETIMES.. But for some reason it doesn't work all of the times. I haven't been able to get a consistent way to do it.
3-3: Even with the half block, I couldn't throw the rat high enough. This still feels like a level that you could go faster in though.
3-4: Very simple optimzation, very nice.

4-1: It can be done if you use Henry to block the fireballs, but I'm not sure if it's faster. This needs to be tested more thoroughly. It's definitely a lot more dangerous though. If you instead wait for him to turn around, that would work without the Henry blocking, but it might still be slower.
4-3: If by boost jumping you mean jumping on the block, I have tried that a bunch of times and haven't been able to get onto the box with a solid jump. If that can be done, it should probably be faster. Especially if you are able to dash through the reaper after he shoots a fireball to the left.
4-4: So there is a very consistent method, and then there is a very dangerous method. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIZ3RBjQEA](VIDEO)[/url]

5-2: I get the hat first so I can launch Henry higher. It didn't work super well in my run because I was just made aware of that route from another person who plans on running the game.
5-4: Yeah you can almost definitely set things up better. But I didn't want to put a ton of time into timing Henry clones walking and making sure they don't die.

6-1: Again with the boost jumps. You'll definitely have to get video of this because I don't know what you mean. I've tried jumping up on the [url=http://i.imgur.com/k4WFRSL.jpg]left[/url] but can't land the jump.
6-2: You can optimize around the sawblades a little bit, especially if you can time it so you won't get hit by the sawblades at all or the mouse is able to destroy them as he goes to the platform. This is the optimal path that I've found. http://i.imgur.com/fFhwK8s.jpg

8-2: Again with me not understanding what you mean. :(
8-4: You could also lose time if he's on the wrong side.
8-Orb: Yeah, putting the rat down facing right on the red block makes things go a tad faster.

9-0: More boost jumps that I know nothing about. :P
9-2: The Lair is my most un-practiced. I was mostly aiming for safe and consistent strats for this entire section, so basically everything can probably be optimized. Also, screw bone worms. :P
9-3: Boost jumps~
9-5: Yeah I was shown the better strategy for this level AFTER that run. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5d5WJCInbA](VIDEO- Credit HenryWatson)[/url]

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 07:15:15 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 07:10:23 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 07:01:30 am

2014-03-27 06:58:42 am

INTJ

Oh, I'll correct that ^^;

Edit: I also completed my notes. A lot still has to be tested and a fair few things area also still theory on my end. So take everything I write with a grain of salt, I use to miss a lot of improvements here and there

Edit 2: What's the earliest we can access an "extended level" portion? I doubt it, but I wonder whether any of the extended levels could be faster than one of the regular levels.

Edit 3: Your Youtube comment reminds me... Temple of Adoration has potential to be faster. But I'm not sure about that yet.

OrthoLabs

Edit history:

OrthoLabs: 2014-03-27 09:24:57 am

2014-03-27 07:16:22 am

From what I can tell, as soon as the Lair of Toragos is opened up, the extended levels are opened. The only time any section seems to be optional are the 5 after the first locked door. I tried to optimize each level as best as I could and my best times for the 4 level sections were http://i.imgur.com/NtFKQQm.png

Edit: My friend Henry (named the rat after him, he's also planning on running) made a pack if icons for levels. I have a split on each level so I can know exactly where I messed up, so he made an icon for each and every level. He said anyone else could use it if they wanted. Smiley

http://cationsk.be/dl/EG2icons.zip @cationsk

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 09:39:26 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 09:36:13 am

2014-03-27 09:26:30 am

INTJ

I should have explained the boost-jump before, sorry. ZDWario figured out, that you can clear one block more than what you are normally supposed to be able to. What you have to do is jump, release about 2/3 into the jump and re-press for the double jump very quickly. With proper timing this gives you -just- enough boost to jump up one block higher. Clearing an additional block is relatively easy once you practice it a little. The jump in 6-1 is probably the most difficult one you can do - you have to focus on releasing and repressing the key really fast.

For a more technical explanation: The devs implemented a mechanic where it gives you nice leeway for your second jump. The basic idea is, that at a certain point, no matter when you execute the doublejump, it should always give you the same height. The calculation on this also has an additional leeway in it, where they give you an additional bit of height for... reasons... I assume it's because people don't usually release and repress the button too quickly. <-- Theory

1-3: Well, the idea is that you dash to the edge, but not into the gap, so you would get another dash in the air. Even if you may have to walk a little backwards for this, it might still be worth it (to be tested I guess)

2-1: Good point about letting Henry walk early in case the upper route doesn't work out. But about taking the upper route yourself - I thought I managed to get into the exit while dropping down once... Not sure if memory is right here. Looping around would certainly be slower
2-2: I'll test some stuff
2-3: Sending Henry to the right gap before going to the left should be faster..? I might be wrong here
2-4: Looks still a bit rough around the edges but... That rat-shielding was actually impressive at the end 0o.. I wonder whether I can use that elsewhere

3-2: To be tested I guess
3-3: Testing.. today evening is a lot of testing

4-1: It's possible I waited for the turn-around there. I guess we'll have to time it
4-3: Boost jumping allows you to -just- clear 1 block higher than what you can do normally. It's a.. very specific timing on the jump-doublejump ZDWario figured out. I just added an explanation at the beginning, so this statement is probably redundant.
4-4: Oh... wow... I love the first one. It looks like you can try that one twice before the others would be faster. Very nice

5-2: You can launch Henry higher?
5-4: I'll put in some time tonight

6-1: And yes, that's exactly the place where I mean. As mentioned, this is probably the most difficult boost jump in the entire game
6-2: I remember feel pretty dumb after I figured this out in my playthrough... And now I forgot. Goldfish memory.. Edit before submit: http://i.imgur.com/OfVWToM.jpg Not sure if that's faster though

7-2:... What do you mean it's 8? brb correcting that

8-2: It's a very minor thing, instead of jumping to the exit at the end, dash over to it and enter the door
8-4: Needs to be tested ^^

9-5: Nice, that's roughly what I was thinking of.... Edit: Actually, I already have improvements for that. After you get the hat initially, immediately teleport up and let the worm get up and around. No reason for it to take the lower key first, it will get it just before it dies.... I might not have thought that through as well as I think I did. I didn't consider enemies.. To be tested
...
Do you know other people who run this game? I only knew about ZDWario and Vulajin before I found your thread on Reddit Smiley

I should have explained the boost-jump before, sorry. ZDWario figured out, that you can clear one block more than what you are normally supposed to be able to. What you have to do is jump, release about 2/3 into the jump and re-press for the double jump very quickly. With proper timing this gives you -just- enough boost to jump up one block higher. Clearing an additional block is relatively easy once you practice it a little. The jump in 6-1 is probably the most difficult one you can do - you have to focus on releasing and repressing the key really fast.

For a more technical explanation: The devs implemented a mechanic where it gives you nice leeway for your second jump. The basic idea is, that at a certain point, no matter when you execute the doublejump, it should always give you the same height. The calculation on this also has an additional leeway in it, where they give you an additional bit of height for... reasons... I assume it's because people don't usually release and repress the button too quickly. <-- Theory

1-3: Well, the idea is that you dash to the edge, but not into the gap, so you would get another dash in the air. Even if you may have to walk a little backwards for this, it might still be worth it (to be tested I guess)

2-1: Good point about letting Henry walk early in case the upper route doesn't work out. But about taking the upper route yourself - I thought I managed to get into the exit while dropping down once... Not sure if memory is right here. Looping around would certainly be slower
2-2: I'll test some stuff
2-3: Sending Henry to the right gap before going to the left should be faster..? I might be wrong here
2-4: Looks still a bit rough around the edges but... That rat-shielding was actually impressive at the end 0o.. I wonder whether I can use that elsewhere

3-2: To be tested I guess
3-3: Testing.. today evening is a lot of testing

4-1: It's possible I waited for the turn-around there. I guess we'll have to time it
4-3: Boost jumping allows you to -just- clear 1 block higher than what you can do normally. It's a.. very specific timing on the jump-doublejump ZDWario figured out. I just added an explanation at the beginning, so this statement is probably redundant. 
4-4: Oh... wow... I love the first one. It looks like you can try that one twice before the others would be faster. Very nice

5-2: You can launch Henry higher?
5-4: I'll put in some time tonight

6-1: And yes, that's exactly the place where I mean. As mentioned, this is probably the most difficult boost jump in the entire game
6-2: I remember feel pretty dumb after I figured this out in my playthrough... And now I forgot. Goldfish memory.. Edit before submit: http://i.imgur.com/OfVWToM.jpg Not sure if that's faster though

7-2:... What do you mean it's 8? brb correcting that

8-2: It's a very minor thing, instead of jumping to the exit at the end, dash over to it and enter the door
8-4: Needs to be tested ^^

9-5: Nice, that's roughly what I was thinking of.... Edit: Actually, I already have improvements for that. After you get the hat initially, immediately teleport up and let the worm get up and around. No reason for it to take the lower key first, it will get it just before it dies.... I might not have thought that through as well as I think I did. I didn't consider enemies.. To be tested
...
Do you know other people who run this game? I only knew about ZDWario and Vulajin before I found your thread on Reddit :)

OrthoLabs

Edit history:

OrthoLabs: 2014-03-27 09:45:51 am

2014-03-27 09:44:50 am

5-2: When I say I launch Henry higher, I mean I have more of an angle so when I toss him while moving back to the left he goes a little further up.

Edit: Also sidenote, I tried the jump and can't figure out the timing at all. =/

And the only other people that I know that run the game are HenryWatson, and Calistus. I did see ZDWario in dewtroid's stream as she was playing the game casually though, and then saw his thread here so I knew of him. I don't know anybody else though. We should all use SRL's IRC or something to easily all be connected and give eachother info when new things come up. Tongue

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 09:52:05 am

2014-03-27 09:51:14 am

INTJ

Generally I prefer the forums here (it's easy to post as guest as well btw.) quite simply because I tend to forget a lot of stuff and only remember where to look for that information. Wouldn't hurt though.

The easiest place to practice Boost-jumps is in 1-1. You can get up to the button-platform without going to the leaves on the left first (Don't try the 6-1 first)

OrthoLabs

2014-03-27 10:13:42 am

I set up #eg2 on the SpeedRunsLive IRC, we can have general talky stuff there. Anything more solid or giant blocks of text like the analysis we've been doing should probably stay here. Tongue

Vulajin

2014-03-27 12:24:56 pm

Nice run, Ortho. Obviously you've seen the room strategies posted above (many of which I learned independently from ZDWario), so it looks like 18 minutes or less will be easily possible. I'm very curious how low this time can go already.

A few room notes (referring a lot to the boost jump Yagamoth explained)...

1-1: After hitting the key, go to the little 2x3 grass mound to the left and use a boost jump to get up to the door. This saves a tiny bit of time if you get it. (shoutout to Evilpenguin in my chat for this one)
1-4: After hitting the first switch, throw the rat from right above the yellow block in the middle. He should land in perfect position to head towards the switch while you jump up into the nook near the key. (courtesy ZDWario)
1-5: Instead of throwing the rat for the second switch, use a boost jump to get up to the blocks above. Also, instead of using the barrel to hit the switch, go over it and drop the rat. (also ZDWario)

2-2: It is faster by one second to break the crates manually and not wait for the fire. (timed using beta timer provided by dev)

4-1: It is not faster to use rat shielding, but the margin is tiny - like half a second or less. (timed using beta timer provided by dev)

I'll drop into the IRC and post more stuff tonight after work.

Nice run, Ortho. Obviously you've seen the room strategies posted above (many of which I learned independently from ZDWario), so it looks like 18 minutes or less will be easily possible. I'm very curious how low this time can go already.

A few room notes (referring a lot to the boost jump Yagamoth explained)...

1-1: After hitting the key, go to the little 2x3 grass mound to the left and use a boost jump to get up to the door. This saves a tiny bit of time if you get it. (shoutout to Evilpenguin in my chat for this one)
1-4: After hitting the first switch, throw the rat from right above the yellow block in the middle. He should land in perfect position to head towards the switch while you jump up into the nook near the key. (courtesy ZDWario)
1-5: Instead of throwing the rat for the second switch, use a boost jump to get up to the blocks above. Also, instead of using the barrel to hit the switch, go over it and drop the rat. (also ZDWario)

2-2: It is faster by one second to break the crates manually and not wait for the fire. (timed using beta timer provided by dev)

4-1: It is not faster to use rat shielding, but the margin is tiny - like half a second or less. (timed using beta timer provided by dev)

I'll drop into the IRC and post more stuff tonight after work.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2014-03-27 07:14:07 pm

2014-03-27 07:13:47 pm

INTJ

ok, "new" technique I didn't know about, courtesy to ZDWario:
Dash and up+rat-throw at the same time makes the rat go fly extremely fast/far. This could be really useful in a lot of places... Maybe. To be tested ^^

Also, I'm going to highlight a few rooms.

2-1:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964468

You can manipulate the Reaper at the top a little more by going back up after you drop the first rat down. This would give an earlier cycle up there.

After the boxes explode, I drop down the rat so the lower reaper gets delayed a bit, and dies from the first stone later or at least doesn't kill me while I dash past him to the switch on the left.
However, as ZDWario pointed out, you can jump back up the the level of the upper reaper, and get an earlier cycle on him, making the manipulation of the lower guy irrelevant.

On the top left, I drop down the rat, so it keeps the upper reaper in place. This way I can manipulate him so I can dash past him easily (I did that a bit wrong in this attempt, but you get the idea)

2-4:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964493

6-3:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964573

6-4:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964591

7-1:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964522

8-4:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964540

I'll add comments and proper numbering of the rooms tomorrow oô

ok, "new" technique I didn't know about, courtesy to ZDWario:
Dash and up+rat-throw at the same time makes the rat go fly extremely fast/far. This could be really useful in a lot of places... Maybe. To be tested ^^

Also, I'm going to highlight a few rooms.

2-1:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964468

You can manipulate the Reaper at the top a little more by going back up after you drop the first rat down. This would give an earlier cycle up there.

After the boxes explode, I drop down the rat so the lower  reaper gets delayed a bit, and dies from the first stone later or at least doesn't kill me while I dash past him to the switch on the left.
However, as ZDWario pointed out, you can jump back up the the level of the upper reaper, and get an earlier cycle on him, making the manipulation of the lower guy irrelevant.

On the top left, I drop down the rat, so it keeps the upper reaper in place. This way I can manipulate him so I can dash past him easily (I did that a bit wrong in this attempt, but you get the idea)

2-4:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964493

6-3:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964573

6-4:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964591

7-1:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964522

8-4:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/3964540

I'll add comments and proper numbering of the rooms tomorrow oô

OrthoLabs

2014-03-28 01:53:06 am

7-1: I've done it a little faster by throwing Henry up instead of turning him into a block, but yeah, that was my "4 second timesaver" that I have talked about.

The rest of the strats all look good, and I even used some of them in my last run. New PB at 17:16 in-game time. Smiley

Can probably still get down to ~16:30 fairly easily with these strats alone, and no deaths.

OrthoLabs

2014-03-29 12:55:43 am

So I've learned some information about 3-2. The one where optimally you could use your rat instead of the second ice block to trigger both buttons. When you get it successfully, the block moves faster when it starts calculating to move down into the last half of the block. What determines this to go faster, I have no idea.

Yagamoth

2014-03-29 04:19:21 am

INTJ

I've managed to do that exactly once in 3-2... Unfortunately I still have no idea how it works q-q

Other than that, I have a few more strategy improvements:

1-5: It's possible to make a Dash-BoostJump up the gap and land on the stone block next to the barrel. It's quite tricky, but most certainly faster than waiting for Henry to press the button. In fact, that way you don't have to press the button at all anymore.

4-3: You can boost-jump up to the key, dash through the reaper and directly go to the exit. That's faster than going back down after acquiring the key. Shielding helps

6-3: It's possible to let Henry fly from the very left (that electric-conductor-thingy-block) through the first gap ant still hitting the block for the stone to fall down. Alternatively, you could initially throw Henry at the ceiling, let him crawl outside and then go for the box also in one flight instead of doing 2

8: (Yes, room "8") you can dash-boostjump from the rightmost block up to the exit without hitting the switches

I've managed to do that exactly once in 3-2... Unfortunately I still have no idea how it works q-q

Other than that, I have a few more strategy improvements:

1-5: It's possible to make a Dash-BoostJump up the gap and land on the stone block next to the barrel. It's quite tricky, but most certainly faster than waiting for Henry to press the button. In fact, that way you don't have to press the button at all anymore.

4-3: You can boost-jump up to the key, dash through the reaper and directly go to the exit. That's faster than going back down after acquiring the key. Shielding helps

6-3: It's possible to let Henry fly from the very left (that electric-conductor-thingy-block) through the first gap ant still hitting the block for the stone to fall down. Alternatively, you could initially throw Henry at the ceiling, let him crawl outside and then go for the box also in one flight instead of doing 2

8: (Yes, room "8") you can dash-boostjump from the rightmost block up to the exit without hitting the switches

OrthoLabs

Edit history:

OrthoLabs: 2014-03-29 07:51:35 am

2014-03-29 07:46:23 am

1-5 and 4-3: Yes, I know about both of these. I try to do them in my PB but didn't get them. 1-5 you should try the super jump, throw the rat, and if you don't get it go for one more attempt before going the longer way around.

6-3: I will likely use the ceiling strat, because getting Henry on the coil in the spot where you hit the box is extremely hard for little reward.

8: Yeah, ZDWario showed this off too. Don't think this is worth it in the run like a few of the other super jump spots, but it is there indeed.

Edit: Repost from the IRC.

<ortholabs> Some super jump science; You have to release the jump button after 10-19 frames from your initial jump. I am checking how many frames of release before you press again that you have now.
<ortholabs> Oh wow jeez. On the earliest, 10 frames, you have to wait 1 frame, and then on the next frame you have to jump. If you jump on the next frame available or the one after the mark, you won't make the distance.
<ortholabs> I lied about frame 19. On frame 18 you have to jump on the first available frame
<ortholabs> With a 15 frame, you can jump at the first or second available frame
<ortholabs> So that gives you an idea of the precision
<ortholabs> Frame 10: http://i.imgur.com/r0BieyI.png
<ortholabs> Frame 15: http://i.imgur.com/QuMCYiA.png
<ortholabs> Frame 18: http://i.imgur.com/LcMsTgy.png (The first frame he goes into that pose)
<ortholabs> So basically you have to release within an 8 frame window, and then release and repress the button optimally on the second available frame, though with a 15 frame jump you have 2 frames of leeway.

1-5 and 4-3: Yes, I know about both of these. I try to do them in my PB but didn't get them. 1-5 you should try the super jump, throw the rat, and if you don't get it go for one more attempt before going the longer way around.

6-3: I will likely use the ceiling strat, because getting Henry on the coil in the spot where you hit the box is extremely hard for little reward.

8: Yeah, ZDWario showed this off too. Don't think this is worth it in the run like a few of the other super jump spots, but it is there indeed.

Edit: Repost from the IRC.

<ortholabs> Some super jump science; You have to release the jump button after 10-19 frames from your initial jump. I am checking how many frames of release before you press again that you have now.
<ortholabs> Oh wow jeez. On the earliest, 10 frames, you have to wait 1 frame, and then on the next frame you have to jump. If you jump on the next frame available or the one after the mark, you won't make the distance.
<ortholabs> I lied about frame 19. On frame 18 you have to jump on the first available frame
<ortholabs> With a 15 frame, you can jump at the first or second available frame
<ortholabs> So that gives you an idea of the precision
<ortholabs> Frame 10: http://i.imgur.com/r0BieyI.png
<ortholabs> Frame 15: http://i.imgur.com/QuMCYiA.png
<ortholabs> Frame 18: http://i.imgur.com/LcMsTgy.png (The first frame he goes into that pose)
<ortholabs> So basically you have to release within an 8 frame window, and then release and repress the button optimally on the second available frame, though with a 15 frame jump you have 2 frames of leeway.

Yagamoth

2014-03-29 09:17:44 am

INTJ

Made another 100% playthrough today - there are quite a few interesting levels to optimize. I didn't put any real effort into it yet though. Time was 2:42 with a break and testing a few things along the way. I guess we should be able to bring this down to below an hour once it's optimized... Maybe a bit more.

OrthoLabs

2014-03-29 09:43:28 am

I would love to see that. I was planning on doing some 100% stuff eventually too. Smiley

ZDWario

2014-03-29 08:49:57 pm

Nice frame info Ortho, I wonder if using the frame 18 pose could help timing it better.

OrthoLabs

Edit history:

OrthoLabs: 2014-03-30 04:45:57 am

2014-03-30 03:31:07 am

Escape Goat 2 WR 16:05 | 19:44 real time | 2 deaths

Edit: I know there are a couple of super jumps that I'm not doing, but I would appreciate if anyone would point out anything that they think would improve the time.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2014-03-30 04:50:57 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-30 04:49:18 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-30 04:48:09 am

Yagamoth: 2014-03-30 04:47:26 am

2014-03-30 04:47:07 am

INTJ

Awesome, so many new room strategies *__*
Congratulations!

also, I quite like that new stream layout Smiley

I think we can improve 3-4 quite a bit if we implement the dash-throw. I'll try that out once I get home.

Also, quite interesting that you only dashed once in the woods at the start. I think I noticed that too, but I wonder if it would be faster if we simply didn't walk that far and dashed twice anyway. With the same idea: In 4-1 we should use the same concept I think - either dash or not dash twice, depending on what's faster.. Maybe in quite a few other places too. I guess I should figure out when it's useful to dash before a drop/jump and when it costs time to crash into a wall.

Since you went for the boost jump in 6-1 (first try 0o), you probably should also implement the boost jump on the right for 8-2

9-3, at the beginning you can wait on the block and then jump to the right (jumping over the snake-head twice in the process), this allows you to keep the snake on the right side and not go all the way back to the start

Edit: Always happy to optimize and point out, happy to see you keep going at it ^^

Edit 2: What's the native resolution for this game? Would be easier to count pixel if I record the thing in the original resolution
Edit 3: Although... The rooms all have different sizes and are scaled.. So that may not necessarily help

Awesome, so many new room strategies *__*
Congratulations!

also, I quite like that new stream layout :)

I think we can improve 3-4 quite a bit if we implement the dash-throw. I'll try that out once I get home.

Also, quite interesting that you only dashed once in the woods at the start. I think I noticed that too, but I wonder if it would be faster if we simply didn't walk that far and dashed twice anyway. With the same idea: In 4-1 we should use the same concept I think - either dash or not dash twice, depending on what's faster.. Maybe in quite a few other places too. I guess I should figure out when it's useful to dash before a drop/jump and when it costs time to crash into a wall.

Since you went for the boost jump in 6-1 (first try 0o), you probably should also implement the boost jump on the right for 8-2

9-3, at the beginning you can wait on the block and then jump to the right (jumping over the snake-head twice in the process), this allows you to keep the snake on the right side and not go all the way back to the start

Edit: Always happy to optimize and point out, happy to see you keep going at it ^^

Edit 2: What's the native resolution for this game? Would be easier to count pixel if I record the thing in the original resolution
Edit 3: Although... The rooms all have different sizes and are scaled.. So that may not necessarily help

OrthoLabs

2014-03-30 04:58:45 am

I usually dash twice at the first forest level, and I've experimented with a boost jump in that level that I will likely add in to my runs. Dashing twice and then walking gets the first fireball to get thrown, then I put Henry down, then jump up to get another fireball to time the fireball aiming left when I get up to the top left in time. As for where else we should use dashes and when not to, I would really like to know the answer to that for every spot. Tongue

I have been using the boost jump on 8-2 sometimes, but I didn't feel comfortable doing it in that run. It usually comes down to "am I going to do this first try or should I just avoid it for now"? In that run, I had lowered some of my settings so the entire game runs faster, without lag in lots of spots, and it threw up my timing just a tad, and that's a more dangerous spot.

9-3: Jeez that sounds scary, I'm going to try that out but that sounds good if it works.
-Just tried it, wow that is super scary but doesn't seem too hard. You can just jump into the one single block gap and be sure to double jump and possibly dash when his heads at the bottom of the screen, then stand above the hole and drop down and dash right. Spooky, but nice.

Well the main menu background is 1664x960, and the resolution I play at is 1680x1050, but the resolution I stream at is 1280x720.

And thanks. Smiley

I usually dash twice at the first forest level, and I've experimented with a boost jump in that level that I will likely add in to my runs. Dashing twice and then walking gets the first fireball to get thrown, then I put Henry down, then jump up to get another fireball to time the fireball aiming left when I get up to the top left in time. As for where else we should use dashes and when not to, I would really like to know the answer to that for every spot. :P

I have been using the boost jump on 8-2 sometimes, but I didn't feel comfortable doing it in that run. It usually comes down to "am I going to do this first try or should I just avoid it for now"? In that run, I had lowered some of my settings so the entire game runs faster, without lag in lots of spots, and it threw up my timing just a tad, and that's a more dangerous spot.

9-3: Jeez that sounds scary, I'm going to try that out but that sounds good if it works.
-Just tried it, wow that is super scary but doesn't seem too hard. You can just jump into the one single block gap and be sure to double jump and possibly dash when his heads at the bottom of the screen, then stand above the hole and drop down and dash right. Spooky, but nice.

Well the main menu background is 1664x960, and the resolution I play at is 1680x1050, but the resolution I stream at is 1280x720.

And thanks. :)