Emulators

lAbsolutel

2005-11-17 06:16:43 pm

Are Emulators allowed? That would make it a lot easier for me to do speed runs.

Thread title:

InsaneB4st4rd

2005-11-17 06:28:02 pm

Still alive...

No

But you may want to check out bizqwit's (sp??) site.

I dont know how to spell it, but you may find someone who can give oyu the link...

lAbsolutel

2005-11-17 06:36:00 pm

Does his site allow them? Anyone know the address?

InsaneB4st4rd

2005-11-17 06:42:27 pm

Still alive...

http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/

I think this is the right one.

Hitaro

2005-11-17 08:49:16 pm

This site is only for legitimate, console runs. Why? Just plain the fact that ROMs are illegal is enough.

Oh, and if you want to watch Bisquit's videos, make sure you have the proper emulator, by the way.

Pweisger

2005-11-17 09:18:52 pm

PwNzRd!

No, Hitaro, not ALL the runs need emulators; most are .avi.

Sir VG

2005-11-17 10:38:52 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Well, there's AVI and (insert emulator video format here). Getting the AVI depends on the seeds the torrent has. Getting the video format file is tiny, isn't depenant on seeds, but yeah...you do need the ROM.

Tub

Edit history:

Tub: 2005-11-18 01:15:04 am

2005-11-18 01:12:44 am

m00

Wow, hold on a second. Why does everyone assume "Emulation" and "TAS" are the same?

if you just wish to use an emulator because recording is easier than on a console (or because you don't own the console), you're out of luck. The Rules of this site explain why. Basically it's forbidden because there is no way to prove that the emulator didn't give you an unfair advantage.
(Most official emulators that are known to be without cheating potential are allowed though. That'll just shift your problem to needing a different console though, no emulators running on a PC are allowed.)
There have been some normal speedruns done with emulators and published on the web, they just won't be added to any speedrunning sites.

However, if you don't want to use the emulator as a tool to emulate the game, but as a tool to make the game easier (i.e. by using quicksaves, allowing slowdowns, having a programmable controller, auto-fire, etc), well.. it's forbidden here because it's not fair to compare such runs to normally played speedruns.
If you can use the emulators 'cheat'-functions to the full potential, go to bisqwit's site. But don't think it'll be easy to create a speedrun there. You sure may use any feature the emulator can offer, but a run that is produced this way is expected to be pixel- and frame-perfect. In extreme cases, you'll find yourself trying to find the fastest way to jump over a box for half an hour, just to shave 1/60th of a second off your time.

Wow, hold on a second. Why does everyone assume "Emulation" and "TAS" are the same?

if you just wish to use an emulator because recording is easier than on a console (or because you don't own the console), you're out of luck. The [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/rules.html]Rules[/url] of this site explain why. Basically it's forbidden because there is no way to prove that the emulator didn't give you an unfair advantage.
(Most official emulators that are known to be without cheating potential are allowed though. That'll just shift your problem to needing a different console though, no emulators running on a PC are allowed.)
There have been some normal speedruns done with emulators and published on the web, they just won't be added to any speedrunning sites.

However, if you don't want to use the emulator as a tool to emulate the game, but as a tool to make the game easier (i.e. by using quicksaves, allowing slowdowns, having a programmable controller, auto-fire, etc), well.. it's forbidden here because it's not fair to compare such runs to normally played speedruns.
If you can use the emulators 'cheat'-functions to the full potential, go to bisqwit's site. But don't think it'll be easy to create a speedrun there. You sure may use any feature the emulator can offer, but a run that is produced this way is expected to be pixel- and frame-perfect. In extreme cases, you'll find yourself trying to find the fastest way to jump over a box for half an hour, just to shave 1/60th of a second off your time.

trihex

2005-11-18 01:45:02 am

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

Quote:

Wow, hold on a second. Why does everyone assume "Emulation" and "TAS" are the same?

if you just wish to use an emulator because recording is easier than on a console (or because you don't own the console), you're out of luck. The Rules of this site explain why. Basically it's forbidden because there is no way to prove that the emulator didn't give you an unfair advantage.
(Most official emulators that are known to be without cheating potential are allowed though. That'll just shift your problem to needing a different console though, no emulators running on a PC are allowed.)
There have been some normal speedruns done with emulators and published on the web, they just won't be added to any speedrunning sites.

However, if you don't want to use the emulator as a tool to emulate the game, but as a tool to make the game easier (i.e. by using quicksaves, allowing slowdowns, having a programmable controller, auto-fire, etc), well.. it's forbidden here because it's not fair to compare such runs to normally played speedruns.
If you can use the emulators 'cheat'-functions to the full potential, go to bisqwit's site. But don't think it'll be easy to create a speedrun there. You sure may use any feature the emulator can offer, but a run that is produced this way is expected to be pixel- and frame-perfect. In extreme cases, you'll find yourself trying to find the fastest way to jump over a box for half an hour, just to shave 1/60th of a second off your time.

It's funny how you chose to say 1/60th pertaining to 60 FPS on most emulated games. I recently heard the PS3 will support 120 FPS, so in about 15-20 years when emulation of PS3 is possible, then people can rip their hair out stressing to jump over that box to save 1/120th of a second! xD

[quote]Wow, hold on a second. Why does everyone assume "Emulation" and "TAS" are the same?

if you just wish to use an emulator because recording is easier than on a console (or because you don't own the console), you're out of luck. The [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/rules.html]Rules[/url] of this site explain why. Basically it's forbidden because there is no way to prove that the emulator didn't give you an unfair advantage.
(Most official emulators that are known to be without cheating potential are allowed though. That'll just shift your problem to needing a different console though, no emulators running on a PC are allowed.)
There have been some normal speedruns done with emulators and published on the web, they just won't be added to any speedrunning sites.

However, if you don't want to use the emulator as a tool to emulate the game, but as a tool to make the game easier (i.e. by using quicksaves, allowing slowdowns, having a programmable controller, auto-fire, etc), well.. it's forbidden here because it's not fair to compare such runs to normally played speedruns.
If you can use the emulators 'cheat'-functions to the full potential, go to bisqwit's site. But don't think it'll be easy to create a speedrun there. You sure may use any feature the emulator can offer, but a run that is produced this way is expected to be pixel- and frame-perfect. In extreme cases, you'll find yourself trying to find the fastest way to jump over a box for half an hour, just to shave 1/60th of a second off your time.[/quote]
It's funny how you chose to say 1/60th pertaining to 60 FPS on most emulated games. I recently heard the PS3 will support 120 FPS, so in about 15-20 years when emulation of PS3 is possible, then people can rip their hair out stressing to jump over that box to save 1/120th of a second! xD

jimsfriend

2005-11-18 02:37:51 am

Like A Fox

Quote:

It's funny how you chose to say 1/60th pertaining to 60 FPS on most emulated games. I recently heard the PS3 will support 120 FPS, so in about 15-20 years when emulation of PS3 is possible, then people can rip their hair out stressing to jump over that box to save 1/120th of a second! xD

Maybe they would just shave their heads to prevent the pain. Wink

I suppose they would probably have to cut their nails too.

Lag.Com

2005-11-18 09:54:47 am

sda loyalist

Slightly off topic, but... 120fps? What the hell is the point of 120fps? The eye can't even see that fast, IIRC.

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2005-11-18 11:33:49 am

2005-11-18 11:28:19 am

Sleeping Terror

The eye can, depending on the circumstances, but current TVs can't display frames that fast. So it would be a bit silly... unless they use two frames to create one motion-blurred frame, and display that.

Do note that I have no idea whether that "PS3 can do 120fps" thing is true or not. It sounds like the kind of thing that could easily be a baseless rumor. I'm sure there are easier ways of creating motion blur.

InsaneB4st4rd

2005-11-18 11:39:54 am

Still alive...

The eye can see more than 30 FPS. At 30 FPS it looks smooth. If you have less it looks choppy.
Air Force pilots, for example, can see a picture thats only been diplayed for 1/200 second. That would mean they can see at 200 FPS.

Lag.Com

2005-11-18 11:58:06 am

sda loyalist

I know it can see more than 30fps, hehe... I just didn't think it went as far as 120fps. Of course, training can shift these limits somewhat, like the air force example you give. But I assume most gamers don't train themselves specifically to spot millisecond-length events too often.

Trevor

2005-11-18 12:43:55 pm

you see with your brain. your brain perceives motion. you can "fool" your brain into thinking that lower fps looks smoother if the frames blend into one another corresponding to the speed of the motion. there was an article on this, i'll look for it later.

Sir VG

2005-11-18 01:14:53 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

Wow, hold on a second. Why does everyone assume "Emulation" and "TAS" are the same?

Look at the description of TAS on Bisqwit's site. "Tool-assisted speedruns using emulation as a tool".

So in a sense, you're right, they're not the same, yet you're wrong. Emulation is used to make TASes.

Tub

2005-11-18 02:20:36 pm

m00

Making a tool-assisted speedrun is just one use of an emulator. One of several.

Assuming that everyone using emulators is doing a TAS is as stupid as assuming that everyone who uses a knife uses it for stabbing people.

It'd be nice if people wouldn't jump to conclusions before hearing what the thread starter intended to do with the emulator. So far, nobody even asked him.

Pweisger

2005-11-18 05:29:56 pm

PwNzRd!

I believe his question was answered with a no several times...

Tub

2005-11-19 01:11:07 am

m00

Quote:

No post before yours even had "TAS" in them, so why do you jump to the conclusion that we think like you claimed? :/ XP

oh, because that guy was linked to bisqwit's site, without further questions or explanations. And god forbit to expect some TAS there, everyone knows they're only sharing cookie recipes Smiley

mike89

Edit history:

mike89: 2005-11-21 09:57:10 am

2005-11-19 08:26:30 am

SEGA Junkie

On the subject at hand:

I've just completed a Sonic 2 speedrun on an emulator as part of a tournament. All legitimate, of course, but I understand that it'll never be hosted here. However, maybe it'd inspire people to play a Sonic 2 run on a console and get it up here.

I'll post links to the emulator, ROM and video file when the tournament deadline passes. Don't want people stealing my strats, do I? Wink

EDIT: Well, the tournament's over. Myself, and the team, won. ^_^

Link to emulator
Link to file
and you can get the ROM here.

Alternatively, you could download the 94MB .WMV here.

Lag.Com

2005-11-19 10:05:18 am

sda loyalist

Posting a link to the ROM would probably be a bad thing.

mike89

2005-11-19 10:26:13 am

SEGA Junkie

I could always tell you where to get it, as opposed to directly linking. But most likely you know where anyway.

Sir VG

2005-11-19 07:36:22 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

I own Sonic 1-3 and S&K. I'm just not quite good enough with them to pull off a super duper speedrun.

Sad

scaryice

Edit history:

scaryice: 2005-11-19 08:06:50 pm

2005-11-19 08:06:14 pm

Quote:

Just plain posting where you can get it isn't aloud here.

And I have my own legal copy of the game, by the way *hint hint*.

Jesus Christ, you're annoying.

(and it's allowed)

Enhasa

2005-11-19 10:17:54 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Jesus Christ, you're annoying.

(and it's allowed)

That is the truest statement I have ever heard on these forums, although you had to mess it up by inserting something about spelling, which many people also find annoying. This thread actually made me look in the preferences to see if I could individually ignore certain posters, as this thread looks perfectly fine without Hitaro. To his credit though, he admitted he shouldn't have posted. Unfortunately, he didn't actually click the "remove" button.

What should have happened, is that instead of mentioning bisqwit (I very much doubt the original poster wanted to create a TAS, as he was trying to make life easier), the guy responding should have mentioned a site like http://kingoffighters.planets.gamespy.com/xspc/ that hosts legit runs played on emulator. It's not as well known, but it's the best you can do. Now, if the original poster wanted to be able to reload every time he messes up, then there is basically no site that would want your run. Get better.

About the eye and FPS, I've taken several classes that covered this topic, so I could rebuke some earlier comments, but I'll let http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm do it for me. This may be the article that was referred to earlier.

[quote]Jesus Christ, you're annoying.

(and it's allowed)[/quote]
That is the truest statement I have ever heard on these forums, although you had to mess it up by inserting something about spelling, which many people also find annoying. This thread actually made me look in the preferences to see if I could individually ignore certain posters, as this thread looks perfectly fine without Hitaro. To his credit though, he admitted he shouldn't have posted. Unfortunately, he didn't actually click the "remove" button.

What should have happened, is that instead of mentioning bisqwit (I very much doubt the original poster wanted to create a TAS, as he was trying to make life easier), the guy responding should have mentioned a site like http://kingoffighters.planets.gamespy.com/xspc/ that hosts legit runs played on emulator. It's not as well known, but it's the best you can do. Now, if the original poster wanted to be able to reload every time he messes up, then there is basically no site that would want your run. Get better.

About the eye and FPS, I've taken several classes that covered this topic, so I could rebuke some earlier comments, but I'll let http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm do it for me. This may be the article that was referred to earlier.